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3/27/01 3:26:06 PM Eastern Standard Time
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Formhandle has graciously put up a good number of the archives on his site
and may soon have all the archives up there. The link is:
http://www.fas.speed-seduction.com/cliff/
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Doc informs me that "your mailing list up on
pickgirlsup.com." Thanks for these plugs, guys, and welcome to all the new
subscribers who have recently signed on.
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Toecutter:
> To me, working
> on women that aren't in the top quality range is ok, but I
> think your own
> reactions to high end women (and the reactions of such women)
> is different
> from those lower down on the scale. So while you may get
> laid, you are
> playing in the bush leagues....
Following up on my comments that you published, I want to link the idea of
hitting on the 7's as opposed to waiting for the elite to the whole neg
discussion that is only starting to be understood for what it is.
My own sister is easily a solid 9 (a 5'11" highly educated, intelligent
brunette ... her and the boyfriend she lives with on the beach both have
done some modeling and he is now a doctor in the final throws of becoming a
surgeon ... they are the beautiful people with the world at their feet). I
grew up around her and her friends as the 'older very cool brother' (there
is only 2 years difference). The superhotties are just girls. The same as
7's. There is one big difference; they are used to people being intimidated
by their beauty. Believe me, their brothers, family, friends and BOYFRIENDS
were not. Their inner circle are on their level and laugh and joke and poke
them in the ribs. I am most definitely still on my sisters level, and poke
fun at both her and her boyfriend, just as they do to me.
The logic (that was stated in private emails) that if I am picking up 7's
more often than 9's and 10's, I am playing the bush leagues is completely
flawed. The girls are the same. One difference. The 9's and 10's have LESS
REAL OPTIONS in men than the 7's but more sub-standard suitors. Why? If you
want to be part of their inner circle, you can not be intimidated by their
beauty. More guys are not intimidated by a 7's beauty than a 9's. Therefore
the 9 has less men to choose from. Guys who do not put them on a pedestal
are few and far between. What does a neg (or teasing) do? Demonstrates to
her that you do not have her on a pedestal. That you are not one of the many
sub-standard suitors.
Therefore, picking up a 9 or 10, requires a statement of power (in that you
are her equal, and do not in any way worship her) such as a neg, then
treating her as if she is a 7. Simple as that. That is who she see's herself
as anyway, and she is not sure what all the fuss is about. I have had
girlfriends that are 9's, and I assure you, after the initial novelty,
within a relationship they are the same as 7's anyway. Every now and again,
you will be in public and see every head turn, and remember that she is hot.
But for the most part she is just the same as any other girlfriend you had.
Therefore, where is a good place to practice the attitude needed for the
elite? With the 7's. Holding your breath and not approaching while you wait
for the super elite to walk into your life because you feel they are
different? Your mistake and you'll probably never be successful with them
for exactly that reason. Perhaps you are fucking up the attitude, because in
only hitting on 9's and 10's you are perhaps only hitting on the girls YOU
WORSHIP. Reduce the 10's to 7's in your mind. Reduce the 10 to a 7 in her
mind at the beginning of a conversation with a neg. Practice on the 7's and
build an autopilot that has THE RIGHT ATTITUDE built in.
Negs are not insults. They are teasing, the same as a brother would do to
his sister. It demonstrates that you are perhaps the only guy in the bar
that is on her level. Then you treat her as if she is a 7. Complementary
openers are not good for the hotties. They are not. "I want to find out if
there is more to this beautiful angel" sucks. You can hear the nervousness
in the stomach bubbling out into the words. Not the way her brother speaks
to her. Not the way her boyfriends speak to her. "Ahhh! Look! Your nose
wrinkles when you laugh" is.
> Other than them doing annoying cockblocking, most of the guys
> out there have
> no ability to engage a woman in a conversation which holds
> her interest. I
> have the impression that if you see their aggression and the
> risk of a fight
> as being elements of the situations, it is because you are
> going after women
> in riskier situations. What you describe has happened to me
> in surely less
> than 1% of my approaches.
Well if there are guys speaking to girls (especially if they are sitting
together at a table), those girls are generally written off unless I can
find a way of engaging the guys in conversation first (therefore those guys
represent competition). Even with the single girls alone, there is a
probability of a fight (and the general crowd in a bar finds me confronting
for my arrogance even though I am not engaging them). Alex will tell you
that guys in a group of 5 offered me a fight because of the number close I
did when I went out with him after leaving you last Monday, and THEY DID NOT
KNOW HER. They just found me confronting to their sense of self. Similarly,
I tried Sisonpyh's "You are touching me ... next time a little higher" line
on a girl in South Beach Miami on the weekend, and a tiny Latino 21 y.o.
with a tough guy attitude and a rabble of Latino and black friends picked a
fight (that I laughed at and walked away ... nevertheless, the girl who had
responded favourably was then out of the question). There is no question
that I go after girls in situations that others would label "risky", and the
other guys in the bar are definitely competition for their aggression, the
space they take up in the room, and their "ownership" of the girls in their
vicinity regardless whether they are AFC's and can competently engage her in
conversation.
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Superfusion:
GameMaster quoted a woman: "You are the most awesome
man I've ever met...I can't ever see you again!"
My question to this is: why would a woman say that? Why would she want to
limit yourself to less worthy men? This mentality leaves me perplexed and
flabbergasted. Could you or the others and the women on your list elaborate
on this concept? It's so hard to get a straight truthful answer on this.
Believe
me, I've tried.
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Ross:
>Berty:
>Here is what I have come up with so far... I took some off what Ross
>suggested... can I get some critiques?
No no no no. I read what you wrote. You are backpedaling and
explaining yourself to a twisted little-girl who feels resentful
because the feelings you stirred in her made her realize she is
SETTLING with her boyfriend (and I'd bet a dollar she's cheating or
has cheated on him as well!)
>Hey xxxxxxxx,
>
>I don't know how you got the idea that I "took more of a liking to me
>then I had hoped."
Don't you get it? Why did she tell you she wanted to come visit you
if she didn't "hope" or "want" you to like her? How old is this princess
anyway? Do not twist your brain around, trying to wrap it around her world.
She's FUCKED UP IN THE HEAD .
>My Comment: I don't think this is going to accomplish much. Personally, I
>agree with Ross's earlier comments that she doesn't deserve more than to
>slapped down for her rude behaviour. And for myself, unless I was truly
>inspired to want to get past her borefriend and other nonsense and bang
her,
>I wouldn't even dignify her with a response.
Well, a good smacking sometimes can deter future bad behavior and
it ALWAYS feels great for the smacker!
>and she came back with some remark about
>how all Americans are fat with no style". While the comment wouldn't have
>bothered me even if I WAS an American (I wish!!) I thought I'd test her
>too and said "I don't think I like the way you generalize" (bust her balls
>a bit).
Wow...what kind of rude, angry person would it take to make that
kind of comment "All Americans are fat with no style!". This woman
is using her power to attract men as a tool to express her deep
personal anger. She has "contempt of men" syndrome, and is going to
batter emotionally any guy dumb enough to get near her. (Or get
herself killed by some maniac who is equally angry at women, but is
going to use his fists, a rock, a gun, a knife or any blunt object
available!
Whenever I hear this kind of unprovoked angry comment, or, a
comment revealing some kind of mental disorder, as in, 'The voices
told me my daughter wouldn't die in my womb so it was ok" I know
that I am in for trouble and I am going to get flaked on, subjected
to senseless and contradictory behavior, etc. Nowadays, I just RUN
AWAY.
>Well, that just about killed the whole deal. I didn't hear much from her
>following that and she didn't even have the guts or courtesy to cancel our
>dinner date (and she never gave me her address, either).
Well, does it surprise you?
> It kinda
>perplexes me because she said she has a hard time finding guys she likes,
>and she obviously liked me. But I had to realize this was to be expected,
>as she told me she had left her last guy, literally, waiting in the church
>on wedding day! Now THAT'S fucked.
Actually, it is more accurate to say that she is SO fucking enraged
that she pushes every guy away except SOMEONE who is more enraged
than her!
>This might leave a door open for me if she decides to contact me
>again, but certainly takes a bite out of her cute little ass.
A door open for what? WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DEAL WITH THIS COMPLETE
PSYCHOTIC BITCH FROM MARS? What would it prove to you about yourself? Do
you ENJOY pain? Geez.
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Chuck:
I did pull up the psycho girl friend (www.psychoexgirlfriend.com) site and
listen to the messages. Interesting. Only got one side of the story but
it's evident from the message content that he was playing a major part in
that situation as he kept calling her and even more, seeing her throughout
the call sequences. Another case of the victimizer wishing to appear the
victim for whatever reason. Pathetic and unmanly.
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Halbster:
> Ross:
> >Women are just fucking crazy though, you know. Went
> >out with this hotass woman last week and after a 4 hour working over I
> >kissed closed her and she looked at me and said "You are the most
awesome
> >man I've ever met...I can't ever see you again!" Oh well, back to the
> >drawing board!
>
> Response: Oh...so the only possibilities you define as being real
> for yourself are the ones that are painful and limiting. Where is
> THAT going to lead you in your life?
I'd say who needs a babe like that. You'll put too much effort into being
her therapist. You might want to ask her when she is going to realize that
sometimes she can have the best things in life, and it starts with coming
from a place of wonderful possibilities and feeling that she is worthy of
great things.
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KEvin:
I had a blind date with a gorgeous teen. I was excited, I went with her
near the sea, put her seat down, and although she was embarrassed I began
kissing and touching her. However, I felt it was like she was doing it not
to disappoint me. I felt she didn't like me. In fact at one moment she told
me it's better to go home. I had met this girl on the internet and yesterday
I chatted again with her. What can I do to make her like me ?
My Comment: You need to read my emails, study some Speed Seduction»
and learn to be the man women are looking for. "Put her seat down"?? No
wonder she was embarrassed...
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Tenore:
> My Comment: While it worked here, I think most of us have had the
opposite
> experience at least a couple of times. I've refused to do similar things
> and got nexted. Now, depending on circumstances, I would usually still
> refuse but in a very low key way -- you describe your reaction as being
> somewhat angry. I will make it like "you're kidding, right? That's not
> happening" but very matter of fact. This is the kind of thing where there
> really isn't only one right answer, you've got to judge each situation
> individually.
I didn't make it clear in my account, but that's exactly what I did. When
she called me, I treated the entire matter as a joke: "Ha ha ha, that's very
funny, now come on over." I only got angry AFTER she hung up on me, and went
home instead of coming to my place. At that point, it was clearly not a
joke, but a power play. (And I should also note that when she is at my
place, she is much closer to her home than to the campus, which adds to the
absurdity.)
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Primoman:
Comments for Berty:
Berty, along the lines of what Clifford was saying, this message will
definitely not get you results. It is too long and it looks like you put too
much work into making it, as I'm sure you did. I've done things like this in
the past and sometimes even with her replying with "that was so beautiful"
but nothing "came" after that. What you need to do, is send her a short,
concise email telling her the truth of how inappropriately and silly she
reacted, but that it's no big deal to you. Then wait for her to make the
next move.
Here is what I have come up with so far... I took some off what Ross
suggested... can I get some critiques?
Hey xxxxxxxx,
I don't know how you got the idea that I "took more of a liking to me
then I had hoped." I specifically remember asking you if you liked
poetry and would you like to read poems that I had written. If I
remember correctly your answer was "as long as I can understand them",
that is the only reason I sent you the first one. I thought maybe you
would enjoy and share them. Which apparently, if I read your E-MAIL
below correctly you did.> Subject: Re: hey xxxxxxx........
> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 18:45:21 EST
> From: xxx***x@ao***.com[ ? ]>; To: yyy***y@uv***.net[ ? ]
> beautiful poem. Even I could understand it! :). If you have more I would
love
> to hear them. I would also like to com visit you again sometime I
just don't
> know when that will be quite yet. Once I am done with school in three
weeks
I
> will have lots of time. We will have to pick a day then. I have
another joke
> for you....
Now, as to the second poem I would have not sent it, if you had
not asked to read more off them. I don't know if reading these poems
stirred
something down deep inside you that made you feel the way you did. Imagine
how surprised I was to have gotten the response I got from you in your last
E-MAIL below.
> Subject: Re: hey xxxxxxxxx.......
> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:25:13 EST
> From: xxx***x@ao***.com[ ? ]>; To: yyy***y@uv***.net[ ? ]>; Berty,
> I enjoyed working with you the first time through school. However,I
> think that you took more of a liking to me then I had hoped. Your poems
are
a
> little too sensual and I don't feel them appropriate. Please do note-mail
> those types of poems anymore, they make me uncomfortable. I do have a
> boyfriend as you know, and he isn't happy with what you send me and
neither
> am I.To which, I to had say: WOW... Because you had struck me as an adult
woman who could handle the full range of ideas and emotions without
having to retreat into feeling uncomfortable. Of all the people who
have read and liked my poems to date, you are the only one who has felt
them UNCOMFORTABLE or INAPPROPRIATE. Yes, my poems are sensual, because
that's what I like to write about. To me, there is nothing much more
sensual than they way people feel for each other.
And yes, I know you have a boyfriend. I'm glad you have found that one
rare person who fulfills your needs, desires and fantasies. Someone who
you can spend time with day after day, week after week, month after month,
year after year, someone who makes you feel as happy as your boyfriend does
for you... what's it like to be totally fulfilled by one person, one person
that fills every single one of your REQUIREMENTS?
As to "taking more of a liking to you then you had hoped", the only thing
I thought I took was, at the very least was another pen-pal (E-MAIL). To
tell you the truth I had expected you to be like all the rest. You come
up here with your class and do what you had to do, and not be seen again.
Or did you think me to be so desperate that I would insert myself where I
was not wanted? I only take a liking to someone who is open minded to new
possibilities. Someone who is not tied down by society's standards as to
what's COMFORTABLE or APPROPRIATE, who is open to new directions. Anyway, I
think I've taken enough your time. This is my last E-MAIL so take care and
good luck to you and yours.
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Marc.:
> Berty:
> Here is what I have come up with so far... I took some off what Ross
> suggested... can I get some critiques?
It seems to me that your approach is, first of all, TOO ANALYTIC, quoting
back what she wrote and all. It's not a debate, nor should it ever be. And
the second thing that struck me is that THE SHEER LENGTH of your e-mail is
so overwhelming that it is impossible to deny muchos interest in her. This
merely confirms the notion she had of you before.
I do appreciate the challenge you give her at the end "is she open minded
enough" to correspond and spend time with you. And then instead of ending
with the above challenge, you start apologizing with "Anyway, I think I've
taken enough YOUR time.". If you mention this at all, I would prefer
"Anyway, I think I've taken enough of **MY** time to explain myself. If you
are the mature kind of person who is open-minded enough about her feelings,
then show them."
> This is my last E-MAIL so take care and good luck to you and yours.
Confusing statement in view of the effort you went through to set the record
straight in twenty-one paragraphs.
> Alan:
could write her>
Despite, or maybe because, the language wizardry, my basic reaction is
similar as to Berty's e-mail. It's TOO LONG, indicating your infatuation
with her. And it is (purposely?) vague in what the relation will be like,
and more importantly, what she immediate action she has to take (NO
CHALLENGE) to continue this relationship with Berty. Since she didn't do
anything wrong, she doesn't have to apologize, right?
Now what happens...?
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Brother Diamond:
Hey there. I've been messing around with nominalizations.
and I don't exactly know what they are since I'm not in
NLP per se... I know what Bishop's nominalizations are but
could someone explain what they are for and some more
in case a woman doesn't give you any trance words to
use?
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Adrian:
Lisa:
> Hi WOW! You know we are all looking for the same thing really a spark,
> love, sexual attraction, adventure, romance, acceptance.
You talk my soul. How do you do that?
> "POOF" it is over.
Once again. K, I have an issue with a gal I like very much in multiple ways.
We had a purely sexual relationship for a while and she told me it is over
last week. So I think I have to reframe. She said I shouldn't call her
anymore... But as I said I DO like her for more than being a hole (and for
more than being dishonest and playing games). There are aspects of her
personality I do LOVE. What do you think, is it appropriate to wait a while
and call her once again (what I already did before) or is that stalking -
Lisa?
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Rio:
I rented a copy of "The Tao Of Steve" and thought it
was enjoyable. The main character, Steve didn't go too
much in the details of the art of seduction». Here was
his basic rules:
1. Remove all desire to have sex when you are with her
2. Do something excellent in her presence
3. Pullback (or retreat, or something that seemed
reminiscent of F.J. Shark's give a sample of yourself
then do the "takeaway")
Steve didn't say specifically what he meant by doing
something excellent in her presence, though the
impression I got from the movie was that his appeal
was that he is good with pre-school kids, in one scene
where his "target" showed up to see him playing poker
with them (substituting crayons for chips).
Has anyone else rented this movie yet?? and what were
your impressions??
At the least, it's a fun film :)
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Doc:
A few nights ago, I tried a bit of the "boob touch" method PASSIVELY
featured on the advanced macking website with 2 (yes, 2 ) GORGEOUS girls in
a club. I stood there on the dance floor, while they faced me each on one
side, looking fantastic. Everyone who walked by was basically looking at
me. I had 2 drinks in my hand, a gin & tonic in one that I was holding for
a
"friend" and a Black Russian in the other. I basically did the trick from
one to another, and they just kept smiling, tits in the air, just for
daddy -
saying the most ridiculous bullshit in my ear and they just had to whisper
even though I could've heard them from a distance (I didn't had to DO it
they just kept coming at me!). I can tell that they were THOROUGHLY
enjoying it.... Very much. I also got Johnny from pickgirlsup.com to try it
out and he seemed to have a bit of success even though he thought it was a
bit "sleazy»" but hey, if they're enjoying it, why not? I eventually took
them out of the club and to a different pub where I sarged a bit... they
also got a bit drunk (blame me) but basically the three of us went back to
my room and we had a little bit of fun with a bit of Aerosmith's "Pink" in
the background while they did a little personal show for me...
Anyway now I'm switching my focus to 2 new blonde babes. AMAZING girls -
these are the queen of the crop and ain't "trolley-cars". This is sweet
honey (probably virgins, or demi-virgins I'd say) fresh out of the comb.
Guys have offered them everything, from helicopter trips to $250 meals. One
of them is however rather "stuck up" (and she admits to this which is rather
comical) which I know better. She's also really talkative....blabbering on
about her being environmentalist of the year (I'd like to see her clean ME
up) and a ballet dancer and all.
I have been trying to bind her thoughts and anchor her states (which I have
had quite a few opportunities to yet I didn't go in full blast because I
wasn't up to it completely... will explain later) but sometimes I don't know
what are the best places to anchor in various situations (hand squeeze,
shoulder, elbow touch.. any advice?). I have not yet developed a personal
pattern to sarging neither have I ever performed MM. I am also wondering
what's the best way to passively "point" at yourself (which I think is
perhaps one of the last things I can do without coming across as being cocky
or direct!) (maybe a hand gesture?)
Earlier on, my buddy and I both fed the stuck up girl Mys' line "Hey, your
nose wiggles a bit when you talk.. haha, say something... there it goes
again!" It worked VERY effectively, she just held her nose, smiling shyly
looking extremely embarrassed which is a completely different state from how
she usually is (and she wasn't faking it either). To add to all that people
say about negs besides the entire psychological aspect of it, I think they
also get the girl thinking about YOU as they will be constantly thinking
about your little comment. Should I have anchored this state change?
Perhaps but I was drunk...
Well, today she asked me to travel with her so I did. We were on a train for
5 hours today and had some great conversation going. Some thought we were a
couple and made comments assuming this, which I also tried to anchor. I'm
still playing it cool, as she's just a FRIEND to me at a moment (my best
buddy wants her a lot more than I do so I'm giving him the chance first.
Respect, pal). I'd just shag her but I think she's sweet enough to "go out"
with for a bit. I also fancy her friend, who's REALLY gorgeous too but the
exact opposite in personality (extremely quiet and shy). Which I actually
like more. I barely talk to this girl as she's so damn quiet and I get
pretty damn bored wit her, but I'm thinking perhaps I can use her friend to
do the persuading for me? Apparently she keeps telling her friend that I'm
"lovely" and keeps bringing her up to me. So far I've only told her that
"she's just a friend, I think she's cute but it's hard to talk to her when
she's so quiet". Well I'm planning on helping her out... in bed,
preferably.
Soon I'll be hopefully considering a "ménage a trios" again if my bed can
hold it... hail to Aerosmith! Damn and this one will be fantastic, believe
me. If it all works out I'll even get a picture and send it to you guys...
haw haw HAW.
(Commenting on: My Comment: While it worked here, I think most of us have
had the opposite experience at least a couple of times. I've refused to do
similar things and got nexted. Now, depending on circumstances, I would
usually still refuse but in a very low key way -- you describe your reaction
as being somewhat angry. I will make it like "you're kidding, right?
That's not
happening" but very matter of fact. This is the kind of thing where there
really isn't only one right answer, you've got to judge each situation
individually.):
Just my quick opinion on HOOP THEORY:
I think it's important as you're saying, Cliff, to isolate individual
circumstances - whether or not the female counterpart has actually created a
hoop. With a "9" or a "10," they are used to being treated the SAME way by
MOST guys/AFC's who give them everything they want- for ONE thing in
return - SEX (at least that's what they think... and I think it does hold
true most of the time). When you throw them something completely "absurd"
and not giving a response that they EXPECT, (not being their gimp) you
confuse them and what then happens is that you "break" their state and put
them off
track. Sometimes I think we get "nexted" because hot women expect to be
treated with "courtesy" by every guy (they literally think they are royalty
just because they look good) so when you don't give them what they want they
think you're a "jerk" or an "asshole". But remember that chap who ended up
marrying the bird who thought he was an asshole because he said to her, "You
think you're hot stuff, don't you?"
"Nice guys" or AFCs jump through the little hoops and make complete fools
out of themselves- I'd say depending on what the girl is asking for and how
you would respond to it if this was a simple friend asking for a favor.
Think of it this way: would it be something you'd do if a GUY asked you to?
(besides sexual favors- even though it could still be a hoop, if those 2
girls (ah, I'm going to call them the "evil sisters" from now on) I
mentioned
want me to lick 'em, I'd lick 'em! Even though I'd try to sarge them to suck
me instead ANYWAY) Could this GUY be trying to make a fool out of you, or
simply take advantage of you? If so, you'd smack this guy over the head,
being a normal, straight guy. If a GIRL does the same thing, no matter how
hot she is, I won't put up with her shit personally (depending on the
situation sometimes I'd turn it around on her but not go too far).
Even if a 9 or a 10 is not "deliberately" creating a hoop, I think basically
constructing your own hoops to respond put you in CONTROL of the situation
which is favorable when it comes to SS. Despite the fact that I hold a
strong belief in showing anger when necessary and not putting up with any
shit, you need to justify prior to showing it. I think if you have
excellent PERSUASION skills you can turn the entire situation around, even
have the girl WALK over and blow you in your car, whatever simply by saying
the right words, doing the right thing, at the right time and getting her in
the right STATE.
I think hoop constructions are somewhat similar to NEGS (okay as I said "I
THINK" so don't flame me if you disagree even though I'd like to hear on
this) - however while NEGS should ONLY be used on 9's and 10's (I FULLY
agree with Mys on this), hoops can be layout along the entire scale (even
though you probably won't be trying to sarge a 4, would you?) and can even
be more effective on some women if performed correctly.
Also I'm wondering has anyone tried the Solar Plexus touch- has it worked
effectively? I was doing a bit of revision today, and came up upon it.
Wondered about timing on the raise, the touch.... Also, I thought a hand
squeeze anchor is slightly tough (especially in an awkward situation like a
restaurant or a retail store, whatever) so I'm wondering how effective you
people have found other anchors to be? I feel a lot more comfortable with
an elbow or wrist anchor (random comment: apparently if you put your fingers
around a girl's wrist while she's giving you a BJ, she would also get
tremendous "pleasure"...?)
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Casey:
(Commenting on Ross):
> No, it's more you are prepared, BEFORE the event, with sort of an
> "early warning radar". That is, an hour or so before something is
> scheduled with an HB, be prepared for the flake or bullshit in
> ADVANCE, including REHEARSING OUT LOUD what you are going to say, and what
> behaviors you are going to do. TRAIN THE WAY YOU FIGHT and you will FIGHT
> THE WAY YOU TRAIN!
If I'm preparing for her bullshit before our meeting, what am I
saying to myself? (In other words, how am I training?)
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| cliff’s list advertisment section |
| Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are
just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links
to these emails. The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take
over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such
as proper mailing list software) for this list. If you were going to buy the product
anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going
at no extra cost to anyone. NON SEDUCTION-RELATED:
RECOMMENDED:
NOT REVIEWED YET:
|
| cliff’s free plugs section |
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all
recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back
here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up —
from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of
weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):
|
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