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I really got no business fucking 20 year old babies but somebody’s got to do it!
2/6/01 9:07:36 AM Eastern Standard Time

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Vlatko:
I found some material that can help anyone to reframe their mind and use
visualization...
http://www.hamr.com/download/

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Spanther:
I'm interested in Psychic Sexual Command 29.  Please respond or of any books
of psychic command or remote influence.

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Sisonpyh:
I've been getting a lot of 'second level' feedback from guys I know on this
list who have been getting feedback from other guys on the list and then
saying things to me like "Some people think that you came across as being a
real asshole, not a nice guy, mean to women... etc." in your posts.

So I'm going to have to take responsibility for what I'm saying, and
apologize if I came across that way. I put a lot of time and energy into
writing that information to share, and I hope that I didn't turn some people
off by being unclear...

Here are a few words that might clarify and sharpen the ideas that I've
shared:

When I am with a woman, or even on the phone with a woman, most of the time
she is between the states of "I have no idea what the hell to expect from
this guy" and laughing their asses off.

All the shit about not giving women exactly what they want, never giving
direct answers, send mixed signals must all be viewed through the frame that
I mentioned early in the first post of "Cocky and Funny."

To be specific, when I'm with a woman, she's usually laughing... now, she
might be hitting me while she's laughing, or laughing nervously at times,
but the fact is that she's laughing! I ALMOST NEVER (and I mean never as in
I can't even remember the last time...) have women get genuinely angry,
depressed, or any other serious negative emotion when they're with me.
They're LAUGHING most of the time.

***If you could be in the room with me during my interactions with a new
woman that I'm interested in, you'd most likely be thinking "This guy is
funny as hell... but he's really pushing it. I mean, he's on the borderline
of saying something that's just too damn arrogant. But wow, the chick just
seems to get more and more into him as this goes on... interesting." You
would NOT be thinking "Wow, this guy seems to me like a asshole womanizer
who's mean to women."

I say this so that you understand that all of the techniques that I employ
are part of the all important 'Character' that I discussed in my first post.

For instance, I was having my first phone conversation with a 5'11 Elite
Model today that I met on AOL a couple of days ago... she was trying to act
all sophisticated by asking me how I dress, and she says "So how do you
dress? I mean, what are you wearing right now?"

I said "What am I wearing? Jesus... I don't usually have phone sex until
I've known someone for at least a few weeks..."

She said "Fuck you!" and started laughing.

I never did answer her question about how I dress... as I also avoided her
questions about what I drive and what I do for a living... but I'm meeting
her tomorrow at noon none the less.

By staying cocky and funny, women will laugh their asses off, get frustrated
that you're not playing to them, and finally crack and show that they like
you (this girl actually asked me to meet her). By the way, she's called me
'pompous,' 'arrogant,' and 47 other names, but she laughs as she's saying it
(the key).

If you're just a plain old run of the mill asshole, then none of this will
work. The 'assholes' who get laid usually have an angle (money, fame,
whatever) that they mix with the assholeness.

Mean, self centered people with no social attractiveness are usually out of
luck.

So keep in mind the all important ingredient: Humor.

NOTHING works for me like humor mixed with arrogance.

I also want to mention once again that I'm very flexible, and in many
situations, I will begin to do very sweet and thoughtful things for a
woman... just on my terms.

And when it comes to sex (***big key here***) I always pay attention and
learn what a woman likes... my goal is to be the most fulfilling lover that
she's had. Mix all this up with some special sauce, and you have the recipe
for hot women that love to have sex with you and love you as a person as
well because you're interesting to them.

Remember, women are not linear, logical creatures. If you do things that
make sense, they will do things that don't make any sense at all.

If you do things that don't make any fucking sense at all, then women will
often do what you want them to do.

It's just that you have to know exactly WHICH things to do that don't make
sense.

Make sense?

I'm off.

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Ross:
>  Again, look at Ross. On one of the
>many video tapes he has he openly admits he's not a "looker". That's good
>enough for me. Keep your head up and never give up. Never, ever give up.

I was being falsely humble. Actually, I'm sizzling fucking
gorgeous....right Tabby? TABBY?  Et tu, Kitty?

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GameMaster:
Hey dude, my reply to Ross' comments which I 100% agree with.
Happy ending to the Shannon story. I really got no business fucking
20 year old babies but somebody's got to do it!
> Ross (Changing subject):
>
> I think you are over-selling. I get what you are attempting, but
> less is more, in this case. More demo's less words. She doesn't
> strike me as an overly-conceptual type anyway, and the ideas you
> present may merely be fantasy for her, NOT an opportunity she has to
> take! We men can translate fantasy (sexual especially) into action,
> GIVEN ANY OPPORTUNITY, but women can't!

Ross is absolutely right, this was an over the top sale and it won't work
with 9 out of 10 chicks....but it worked on this one. She called today to
let me know she had broken up with her boyfriend and wants to come for a
visit
and soon. But your point is dead on, this typically won't work but Shannon
is one of those girls that operates on excess...everything is bigger than,
more fantastic than, more awesome than, and she has an incredible
imagination so I figured I could get away with it. Besides, it was her that
initiated the conversation, pulling me in that direction. Anyway, I get my
turn at bat this weekend so we'll see.

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Adam:
What I'm about to impart is for those of us who are looking for a
relationship.
If you're just looking for one-nighters, then this insight will probably be
marginal to your game:
I've been doing a lot of field work on the "10"'s.
My conclusion is this:
They're all fucked up. Every single one of them.
Their reality is comparable to that of a rock star. People can be having
an otherwise rotten day, yet when they walk in the room... suddenly
everyone around them acts happy!
If EVERYONE acted this way around you... don't you think it might warp your
sense of reality?
I flew first class back from California last weekend and sat next to a 10.
We both had a lay-over in Denver (no pun intended). I met her for
breakfast the next morning, since the connecting flight wasn't until 11 am.
From where we met until we were seated in the restaurant (no less than 100
yards away) I counted THREE separate people who actually walked by and
said, "Hello!" Their faces would light up at the very sight of her.
People fall all over themselves to help out a 10.
They buy them stuff. They shower gifts and ask nothing in return.
A "10" can get rich men who will buy them anything. And they can get movie
stars.
The world caters to them. They live in a completely different reality than
you or I. And it's not just a reality that's in their head... it's a
reality that is confirmed every day of their life.
Life for them is like flying first class. They come to expect that type of
service. And anyone who tries to treat them with lesser service (Read: No
supplication) indicates to them that they must have accidentally walked
into the "coach" section and should immediately veer back to first class.
And here's my rambling point: These women are spoiled brats.
Personally, I'm not going to waste any more of my time on them, unless one
of you stud-muffins can convince me otherwise... I'll settle for the 8's.

P.S. Wanna know what happened to me with the 10 at the airport?
Once we met and sat down for breakfast, it was immediately obvious to me
that the rapport we'd had the night before (on the plane) was somehow gone,
and nothing I did could get it back. (Maybe she spoke with the
borefriend... who knows? Or perhaps it's just two people before their
morning coffee?)
In any event, once we ordered she started acting like a polite bitch.
So when the bill came, I looked at her and said the same line I've shared
with y'all before: "You got money?"
In response-- as if on cue-- she pulled out her company American Express
card and ended up paying for MY breakfast, too.
I could tell that under all of her politeness, she was pissed about this...
since she was expecting me to buy HER breakfast!
So, I at least got a free breakfast out of the deal.
And hey... I'm only a "5 1/2."
>This is the key; looks mattering in what CONTEXT? In the context of
>someone who is NOT especially suggestible, your looks could be an
>insurmountable problem. In the context of a highly suggestible or
>even fairly suggestible subject, they can swiftly and even laughably
>be negated.
>WITH A HIGHLY SUGGESTIBLE SUBJECT your looks don't mean squat.
>Fortunately, given the right conditions, most folks are at least
>somewhat suggestible, and it is the BRIGHTEST women who are MOST
>suggestible (and often the champion athletes as well!).

I agree... go after the highly suggestible women IF YOU JUST WANT TO GET
LAID. But to say that the BRIGHTEST women are most suggestible is just plain
false.
I can't understand why you would want to be with a highly suggestible woman
if you ARE looking for a long term relationship? (I'm assuming that you
are.)
These women aren't just highly suggestible to YOU... they're highly
suggestible to EVERYBODY!!!
These women are easily influenced. Period. They will squander your money
on every info-mercial product, Chia Pet and Encyclopedia/vacuum salesmen
that crosses their path. They are incapable of critical thinking because
they are so suggestible. They are highly influenced by conmen and
fraudulent claims. And because they are so suggestible, they make poor
decisions.
And this makes them a liability, in my book. Besides... why would you want
to be with someone who's hyper-suggestible? (For more than one night, that
is.) Give me a woman who's more of a skeptic, but with a positive outlook
on life any day!
There is a difference between the type of woman who's imaginative and
adventurous YET is still a critical thinker, uses logic and reason
(granted, a rare quality among women!) VS. the woman who is highly
suggestible.

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Mr. Fluffy:
Although I am somewhat of a health and fitness fanatic and I work out daily,
I no longer have 2% body fat.  However, by most standards I am lean,
probably about 8-10% body fat.  Recently, I was out with a 27 yr old
Peruvian HB named Fab.  Fab is an extreme health and fitness fanatic, who I
believe truly considered me to be flabby.  She called me Mr. Fluffy, and
also teased me about having wrinkles (I'm 32).  I don't remember what I said
when Fab said something about this.  I think I said something like... You
can go home alone, and to think I once liked you and thought of you as a
nice person. Anyway, Fab told me You're supposed to just say "I don't care."
Suddenly, it was like a light went on in my head.  I realized that she had
been telling me the proper responses to make all night long, and that most
women tend to do this while guys just don't pay any attention.  She was also
telling me what could be an effective response when other woman say similar
things.
A short while later, I made a comment about how even if she didn't think I
was irresistibly hot, I know she was still OK with my looks because she
called me, and she chose to go out with me.
Incidentally, regarding that neg hit stuff with the hand models.  Right from
the start Fab not only knew that she is physically perfect, but she also
knew
that I found her extraordinarily beautiful and was totally hot for her.  In
fact, my acknowledging her beauty probably bordered on supplication, and
throughout most of the evening my states were very affected and my mind was
very distracted by her overwhelming gorgeous beauty.  Although not a model,
she is perhaps the best looking woman I've ever seen, and I was actually
meeting her in person.  People tell Fab that she looks like Jennifer Lopez
(same coloring, skin tone, similar hair, but Fab has a much prettier face
and way better body).  Yet, despite never neghitting her or trying to shake
her self-esteem she 1) went out with me, and 2) became somewhat sexual with
me.  However, note that I did make myself scarce when it came to responding
to her initial calls and e-mails, but this was do more to my being busy than
anything else.
So, how did I initially meet her?  I was racing for a train one nite and she
pointed out a shortcut to the train, but I still missed the train.  After
missing the train, I calmly stated now I have a chance to go back to my car
and get my book.  Then, I suddenly noticed her gorgeous looks.  She saw my
response and laughed.  I immediately asked her if she'd like to go to a
comedy club with me to watch a friend perform.  She told me that she was
waiting for her Uncle to pick her up.  I said "Tell your Uncle you've met a
great guy.  Cum/Come with me."  She said "I can't tonite."  I said let's go
out another nite give me your number.  She said "No, you give me your number
and e-mail and pulled out a pen with her dayplanner."  Then, her Uncle drove
up so I gave her my number without getting her number.  Fortunately, she
followed up and e-mailed me a few days later.  After a few days I e-mailed
her back.  She gave me her phone number.  Then, we had 1 phone conversation
for about an hour.  Virtually zero patterning.  It was more like two good
friends talking, and us taking turns discovering each other.  Then, we got
together in person a few days later.  However, when I met her in person
there was a gradual progression of patterning, lots of nonverbal seduction,
and
massage.  More than anything, I relied on spontaneity, a spirit of
adventure,
humor, outrageousness, and a fun attitude coupled with being extremely nice
(many of you would probably say AFC).
Although, I rarely pay when I go out with woman, I spent a fair amount of
money on her.  I did this because I wanted her to have a certain experience.
It wasn't about spending money, power, or trying to buy her affection.  I
spent money to take her to the top of a very tall building (World Trade
Center) at nite.  For those in NYC this is a great place to take a woman,
especially if she is from another country.  So, I broke many classic SS'ing
rules and yet had one of my most successful meetings ever.

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Alan:
> Ron:
> The other bigger challenge I want to mention became lusting after
> results with SS because I felt I had so much to learn. And that's
> what happened for me in the first year, I really got nowhere
> because I was so wound up sexually it was affecting my thinking.
> I finally decided to do something about that and kill a bunch of
> birds with one stone. A lot of guys may look down on this, but I
> would venture to say that social conditioning about this is
> probably the reason. (I used to myself) However, in my case, I
> felt I had to start at square one. So, I hired an escort. A
> beautiful, mature (not an 18 year sex kitten - I prefer older
> women) PROFESSIONAL escort who I felt would help me. This did at
> least six things for me that I could put my finger on.

Ron, while I wouldn't recommend your method to everyone, I'm
pleased for you that you found a way to make progress, a way that
suited you and has turned out well so far.
IMHO, part of leaving AFC-land behind is learning to experiment, to
let go of preconceived notions and find out what works for you. And
you've been doing that.
No doubt, when the time is right, you'll leave escorts behind and
get what you want from the straight women you want.
You seem to me to be a self-aware guy with insight, so I'm sure my
next point has already occurred to you. I'll state it anyway, for
the benefit of other readers.
One problem with escorts is the unintended conditioning on the
client. The client repeatedly gets into a situation where his
physical needs get met, and most of his emotional ones don't.
Clients often fall for escorts. The smart clients know that if they
declare their emotional connection, and express a desire for more
intimacy, the escort will run off, scared. So the smart clients
hide it.
And that's were the conditioning starts. The client is in a
situation where it is too risky to express honestly what he feels
and would *like* to express. So he learns to hide it, so he can
keep on seeing his favorite escort.
If he just wants to fuck a hot babe efficiently, then no problem,
he has nothing to hide. If, ultimately, he wants intimacy as
well as sex, then the escort-client situation becomes a bad
training situation where he has to suppress part of himself and
not act spontaneously.
It can become a bad situation in itself. And it can be bad training
for future LTRs.
Lots of guys can fuck escorts without running any emotional risks
whatsoever. Fine.
To any sensitive love-hungry AFCs out there, thinking that Ron's
solution might work for them too, I say: it might, for a while,
but it has emotional pitfalls.
Use it to make progress, IF you feel you must and nothing else
is working. Then move on as soon as you can.
Note that my point has nothing to do with moral or legal issues.
It's purely about self-development and getting what you want in
life.

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Tenore:
Anthony says:
> So next time you are in a bar and you see some chicks and you think you
> aren't good enough to get them, think again. I am overweight and I get
Super
> Hot Babes STARING AT ME

I'm past 50, balding, and need to lose 15 pounds. I never go to the gym or
work out. Yet my girlfriend is a stunning, tall, highly-sensuous Chinese
woman in her 30's who turns heads everywhere she goes. She loves me deeply,
and it is primarily my attitude that inspires this. She knows that I am in
"high demand" (or at least I would be if not for her!), and this greatly
increases her estimation of me. At first it was my 'playboy attitude' toward
women that attracted her. But because I care for her, I have chosen to
cultivate this relationship, to attempt to make it work over the long-term.
Now that I know her well, I understand how her feelings operate, and I
attempt to "feed" those feelings with the nectar that nourishes them the
best. Of course, when she wishes me to do something that I don't agree with,
I refuse to do it. She may get in a snit for a short time, but she gets over
it quickly, and esteems me all the more afterward for having done so. I am
led to understand that nobody has ever stood up to her before, i.e. a
Chinese goddess is accustomed to getting what she wants, when she wants it.
I think that is one of the reasons that she esteems me so highly.
> Do a guy's looks really matter? NO. I don't care what you say, I don't
care
> who you are, Brad Pitt or Chris Farley it won't matter if you keep them
> wondering!

About 8-10 years ago I used to hang out at a lounge that had some decent
bands, decent women, and dancing. A cocktail waitress there was a stunning,
absolute goddess, a 10 or 11 in anyone's book. About 5 foot 10" tall,
blonde, mid-20s, perfect proportions. And she was an intelligent woman, too.
We had some nice chats on some slow nights, she obviously read a lot and
could discuss philosophy, etc. She would be anybody's dream girl. Of course
I tried to get her interested in me, but with no success.

A week or so later, I'm at a different bar in town, and in walks the
goddess. Obviously it's her night off. She is arm-in-arm with a short,
middle aged guy who has a **big grin** on his face (and who could blame
him????). He's about a head shorter than she is. He's wearing a beret that
he doesn't take off, probably because he's bald. She is beaming and smiling
at him with obvious and sincere affection. These two apparently are
well-known by the regulars (which does not include me), and a lot of
greeting goes on, mostly directed at her. One fellow, noting the commotion,
says to me something about how "this guy is an artist, she likes artists".
(I don't think that the guy was a famous artist or anything, just somebody
who knows how to cultivate an image.)

I think of this incident whenever I hear a guy fretting excessively about
his "looks."

So, the bottom line is: a guy's looks do NOT matter very much. Good looks
can help, but they are not NEARLY as important as a good attitude.
> Never doubt the power of making yourself the most powerful person in the
> room! (3 months ago I would never have said this.)

As the fat, ugly Henry Kissinger always said, POWER is the ultimate
aphrodisiac.

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Chase:
>Nathan:
> > Halbster:
> > Tristan was singing praises for neg hitting and giving the
> > example
> >
> > Her: I'm a model
> > You: Oh, a hand model or something.
> >
> > If he is hooking up with her I don't think it is because of that line.
>
>Of course, no single line will get you there.
>
> > Really hot woman know they're hot and you can't hide that fact with a
line
> > like that.
>
>Now THAT is an uninformed statement. I know the guy who made that line up
(I
>posted it on ASF a while back). He's been with models ... including an
>actual hand model (but she was hot, not just her hands BTW), that's where
>he got the idea.
>
>I've met models (I know a couple fashion photographers) and it's a well
>known fact that they are very insecure. Lots of hot women are insecure.
>And even if they're not ... welllll this line said with a genuine sounding
>tone is going to put them in that state briefly.
>
>The point of this whole 'neg' thing is to get her to think 'OMFG I'm so
>hot and all those men are after me, and why NOT this one guy ? WTF is
>going on am I fat or something?'
>
>You get the point.

This point was recently illustrated on the Howard Stern Show.  He did a
broadcast from the Playboy mansion and I thought it contained some good info
from a PUA point of view.  Howard brings a bunch of his misfits along with
him to the mansion.  One of which is a foot fetishist.  It seems that the
Playboy girls were lined up to show them their feet.  Howard pulls the girl
onto the interview couch to find out why he is so popular.  The guy judges a
couple of girls feet.  Obviously these girls are attractive by most
standards, but this guy was really picky about the type of feet that he
liked.  He was dogging these girls out and seemed genuinely unimpressed with
the quality of feet that he was seeing.  The more he ripped on them the more
girls would line up and try to impress him.  This is not the same I realize
as neg hits but interesting nonetheless.  Makes me want to pretend to have
this fetish and try out this move.
Howard Stern, if you can stomach his adolescent humor and general offensive
behavior, has quite a female following and I often gain insights from his
show.  Especially the interviews.  Tom Leykis is also worth a listen on some
topics.

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Joe Gigolo:
Here are some patterns I have put together:
As you think about people, from your most primal thru your most modern and
sophisticated, looking back on the great eras and civilizations you've heard
about from all over the world throughout history, from the most powerful, to
the most admirable and inspirational, what people (person), in the past and
here right now are you most fascinated and intrigued by?  And as you picture
this person in front of you, what do you feel makes you admire and respect
(fascinates and intrigues you about) this person?


Describe for me, as fully and completely as you can remember, how you feel
the moment you realize, the instant you can sense you're really interested,
deeply drawn to someone.  And as you relive those feelings, now with me, how
do the feelings that come when you're with this person affect the way you
feel when you're with him, looking at him?


Has it ever happened to you that you meet someone and immediately you feel
very relaxed and comfortable with this person?  Like you're on the same
wavelength and you're feeling the same vibes, and you get that sudden click
and you feel that glowing warmth inside that completely washes over you and
it feels peculiar but feels really good.  And the more you're with this
person the more you sense, the more you start to realize just how much of an
understanding two people can have and you can easily picture this person in
your life like you were meant to know them and you feel you've known this
person forever.  Have you ever felt that?


Have you ever felt an incredible connection with someone?  When it's not
about thinking, it's completely about feeling and you know it.  That little
voice inside you is screaming & yelling at you: "Hey! Wake up! This is it!"
and everything else you see or hear in the background simply melts away and
you become completely unconscious of time.  Your entire consciousness slows
down and becomes much more intense.  Awareness of how you're feeling now
increases and your attention is captured by this fantastic, magnetic person
you're with, and it's like tunnel-vision, and you're feel yourself getting
pulled in by the way they're looking at you and you're looking at them, you
get drawn in closer by their voice, and you focus completely on the feelings
you get that come when you're with this person.  (Squeeze) Do you understand
what I'm saying? Can you feel that?


further confuse her as she'll answer that she understands and it builds
momentum. Even if she wasn't really feeling it, she's already answered that
she has>


For this one you might want to elicit if she has a favorite flower, jewel,
if she's ever done rock or mountain climbing (including indoors), and her
sense of spirituality (not necessarily religion) to further personalize it.

Imagine I'm an all-powerful wizard with the magical ability to improve
anything about a person they desire.  Picture yourself scaling this immense
mountain alone, in the cold, all the way to the peak (insert elicited
feelings about rock climbing), crossing a golden drawbridge over rushing
stream entering a majestic palace, walking down a warm glittering (with
favorite jewels) hallway, and climbing up rose-petal (favorite flower)
covered marble steps to see me atop the steps in a lavishly decorated
throne.  I have the power to improve you in any way you desire physically,
emotionally, and spiritually.  After you kneel on the velvet rugs and give
me your offering, you ask me to grant your wish to change 1 physical, 1
emotional, and 1 spiritual quality about yourself.  What qualities about
yourself do you ask me to change?


multiple planes at once>

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Max:
One of the books that I've found very interesting is the 'How to be the Jerk
Women Love', by F.J.  Shark.  Though I've received the book last week and
didn't complete it yet, I've gone out Friday to one place on St. Laurent
Boulevard here in Montreal and decided to play with his game. Here is how it
went:
I was looking for some change to make a telephone call, and I approached one
of the hotties working at the place for giving billiard sets;
Me: Hi, I want some change.
Her:  Yes, sure.
Me: Do you always curl your hair?
She: Some times, (in a shaky voice)
Me: Why do you have to do that, for God's sakes?
The girl virtually panicked and she couldn't utter a word. I decided to let
her
go. I thought that this particular wording might have been  a bit rough,
especially with the softy ones.
I then went and sat by the bar. The bartender was a rocking blond that
everybody was hitting on. She seemed to be dynamic behind the bar, and was
'displaying' a lot of confidence.  I ordered my 'Corona' and waited for the
moment when she was not busy, as she lit up a cigarette and passed by me;
Me: How long have you been working here?
She: I worked here as a waitress for about a year, and as a bartender for
about two weeks.
Me: You seem to be comfortable at your stage, and despite those big ear
rings you are wearing, I see that you are dynamic and move with ease.
She: Oh, you don't like my ear rings.
Me: Yes, I don't . (True, I didn't like them and I thought they were too
big)
She: Those are the biggest I've got. It is the first time I wear them.
Me: I think that a smaller set would allow more exposure to your face. By
the way, let me ask you this; a lot of people seem to talk with you around
here, how do you differentiate between those who are trying to pick you up
(Pointing far to the right) and those who really want to get to know you
(sp)?
She: Ummm, I guess I don't care.
At that moment, she was called by another bartender, and she said 'stay
here,
I'll be right back' .  I then said that I've to go now, see you.
* Advice needed; when I see that she is responding to some criticism I'm
throwing, what is a good strategy to use in that case to keep her attention?

Saturday morning I went out to pick up a gift for my son's birthday. I
headed
to 'Toys R Us'. I spotted a pretty 5' 8" worker. Not completely in mood, but
I decided to go and talk to her:
Me:  Do you have a sister working in the store?
She:  Not today, she works here but she is off today.
Me: I thought I saw someone that looks like you.  How come all workers are
wearing a pony tail today? {mistake, I should have personalized it}
She: I guess it is easier to work when it is tied up.
I had a little chat with her about her outfit and decided to call it off.

It was my first time playing the jerk role, but hey, it is getting them to
respond,
and I get to be in control of the conversation.

Though I find it easy to initiate conversations with bartenders, cashiers
and
store workers, I'm not yet at ease walking to anyone in clubs, supermarkets,
street....etc. I seem to worry more about what to say when I'm approaching
someone in public.  Any input is appreciated.

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