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Stunned by the amazing results
11/17/01 1:43:22 PM Eastern Standard Time
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John:
I had girlfriend for a long time, and we broke up a year ago, we don't talk
anymore.
she had a best girlfriend, which I liked, and continue talking to after I
broke up my ex, but she (the friend) had a boyfriend for 3 years. Lately
she told me she doesn't love him anymore, so I thought, girls always talk,
don't take it seriously. Two weeks later, I met her with a group of
friends, (not including her best girlfriend, my ex). It was fun and all
and she invited me her place, for tomorrow, alone.
I came and she was all flirty and stuff.
I thought, although she has a boyfriend, and I "dated" her best girlfriend,
it's a really bad situation, but what the hell, I'll go for it.
I went to her place, told her that we're having fun together and that I
feel that she feel she wants me, and bla bla bla..
She said she feels this way, yet I noticed that she had a problem, and
although I didn't know before I got there that things will go good, I had
planned what to say to "destroy" her boyfriend.
She surprised me and told me that her boyfriend is not an issue, and her
best friend, my ex, is bothering her and she couldn't betray her, then we
made out. Then she told me it's wrong.
Then we made out. Repeat. I went to see her again two days later, she was
distant, and told me she can't do this because of her friend and we need to
go back to being "just friends"
I smiled and kissed her and we made out. Yet I felt that she was stronger
in her opinion not to give me a chance. I told her that I won't be "just a
friend." Then she said she couldn't do it.
Then I had to leave, and left. Our mutual friend told me she said to him
she's sure she made the right decision, by not "dating" me because her best
friend is my ex and it'll hurt her.
It's been a week since we talked. Should I leave it be? Yet, since I want
her, should I continue after this to make it work?
Cliff's Comment: Don't live your life based on what someone else
wants. You want it, go for it.
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AdamK:
(Commenting on Matthew A.: "I decided to step into her and give her
the command, "You want me!." For the rest of the night, she flirted with us
and took the time to hold her end up in conversations. When we left, I gave
her a compliment on her energy, and she "accidentally" grinded both breasts
against me. Another example: I was walking down the crowded street in
Jersey City yesterday, and from the back I spotted a girl with a nice ass
and tiny figure (my personal taste). Mind
you, we were in a crowded sidewalk, and she was a block away. I focused my
energy on her with the same intent as the waitress, and the girl STOPPED,
and looked back, directly at me."):
Oh really? And then you went home and masturbated, right?
Why didn't you "step into her" and tell her to give you her phone number?
Why didn't you "step into her" and ask her to give you a blow job in the
men's room? I'll tell you why you didn't: Because that psychic influence
stuff doesn't work
in specific situations this way. Practitioners always have some convenient
excuse as to why it "didn't work this time". Don't waste your time or
money. Learn real skills.
If the techniques you're using don't work at least one 1 out of 10 times
(minimum) to get you a phone number ... then write them off as nonsense.
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Stephane:
(Commenting on: "Gregory Rasputin: So, I guess that my point boils down
to this: As soon as you can decide what kind of girl you're dealing
with, you should know whose material to use. If she's a young, fun
loving, immature girl, use Mystery's stuff (and Sisonpyh's somewhat),
but if she's well read, can carry on a very intelligent conversation,
and is more experienced, practice your SS."):
If I can't tease her, I don't want her. Also, I have found that often when
they get uptight, if I keep heading in the same direction they loosen up.
(Commenting on: "I do not believe you can never really stop to care what
people think because if that was the case then you could easily walk up to
the fattest woman you
see on the street and tell her she is a fat slob in her face. But why would
you do that? I think the key is to think of the impact that what you say to
people will have on them - the smaller the impact the less you have to be
concerned about their reaction."):
I agree that you need to be careful (courageous and considerate
simultaneously) because I have said things that have caused me to crash &
burn pretty hard!
The trick is to find the balance between being brutally honest AND mature.
I have found, however, that most guys interested in overcoming AFCness
are too afraid of what women will think, and would benefit greatly from
more of a "Who cares" attitude until they learn that they can get away with
ALOT more than they think. I once walked up to an HB9 virgin in a bar and
said,"I know that most guys would come over and buy you a drink and make all
kinds of boring small-talk with you, but I'm not interested in that
shit. I just
wanted to tell you that I really really really want to fuck you." It
worked. I
had her crying within 5 minutes of meeting her, because she never met
someone who
was "so sweet"! Go figure...
(Commenting on: "Question: There is a school of thought that men should only
listen to women's problems and not be solvers of them because women want
men to
empathize with them rather than offer solutions because by being a solver
you become a part of
the problem. Another school of thought suggests that we give women
leadership, focus and
direction which implies giving her direction and thus becoming a solution
provider to her.
So we want to be empathetic yet leaders, focus and solution providers.
I find giving leadership works better even if we risk having her feel not
heard.
If anyone has any strong opinions on this please make them known."):
I never liked school much anyway! They also told me not to play therapist, and
therapy is one of the greatest ways to get into their panties!
I listen to both schools of thought. I listen AND I solve her problems. Having
a strong background in hypnosis/NLP/DHE is a great way to get blowjobs. I
put them in trance and make them feel so good that they remember to forget
what their
problems weren't....
Most men either listen too much and become puppies OR they don't listen
enough and advise too much too soon, and they give crappy advice and
therefore insult the poor
woman. Another thing is they don't make the problem solving any fun. I
have them
laughing so hard at their problems that they just fade away, whereas most
guys just
get stuck in the content and say things like,"Just relax!!! You're blowing
this out of
proportion!!!"
(Commenting on: "While everyone agrees that chicks should only be sarged
consensually, there is a growing problem in the United States of false rape
allegations.
The more girls one has sex with, the more exposure to bogus allegations one
faces.
Prosecutorial and police overzealousness (not to mention frame ups), the
prison industry ever so
willing to build more and fill their space, mandatory minimum sentencing,
and the fact that
the evidentiary standard is her word against yours, what does an honest and
law abiding PUA
do to limit criminal liability exposure to false rape allegations?"):
Thanks for the phobia installation! After reading your post, it took me ten
minutes to get rid of it! Stop writing posts like that--you're scaring me.
The threat of STD's hasn't stopped me, and now this won't stop me
either. But you do
have a point. Perhaps one-night stands are not the healthiest habit
after-all....
Maybe I should wait a month or two to get to know the girls......NAH! I'll
take my chances.
(Commenting on: "I totally agree. I must have reread this "want" a thousand
times now, but I still think about this. I guess I should be more direct
with my
intentions, cuz women can always figure out your interest in them so why
HIDE?"):
I think the key is to be direct AND funny. I won't say,"Nice tits!" but I will
say,"If those puppies are for sale, I'll take the one with the pink nose!"
(Commenting on:"A fine point which comes to my mind is what separates
beginners like me from the gurus is that when we enter a place and we
survey the scene, the gurus think "TARGET" and they just go in without
hesitation while (me, for e.g.) I see the guys there and
a WARNING bell rings inside "COMPETITION."):
Well, the warning bell is right. The question is,"Do you like a
challenge?" I don't!
You won't see me fighting with other guys over pussy, because there's just
too much
pussy going around for that! But try not to categorize yourself as a
'beginner'.
I always hated the term RAFC because it locks the model down. I know this
is just positive thinking crap but it has some merit. You're not a 'beginner'
because you've had that dick between your legs the whole time.
(Commenting on:""What if this sounds like a jerk? What if she views this as
being supplicating? What if this conveys a sense of being weak?" Another
set of
self limiting beliefs has arisen to replace the old one, but the hesitation
remains."):
What if she enjoys swallowing?
(Commenting on:"Although I do break out of it every now and then. But this
hesitation which came out of analysis of where my actions cannot go is also
due to my
spending too much time on-line be it personals, chatting, or even reading
ASF."):
I know exactly what you mean, and that's why I like to say,"Analysis is
paralysis".
I learn alot more in chatting for ten minutes with a little hottie at the
bus stop
than in an entire day on ASF. There's alot of truth to that stuff
about,"Everything
that you need to know is already within you" crap.
(Commenting on:"Yeah, one of the good things I have started doing with women
recently is telling them I have a life of my own separate from
them. Earlier, I
would go out of my way to be with them, meet them, blah blah...but now the
more I respect my
time .. the more they respect me."):
I see my girlfriend once a week. Until I am married, that's going to be my
rule. I like
to keep them guessing. It also gives me a chance to do some recruiting on
the side!
Nothing works for me like keeping them guessing. Every once and a while I
overdo it
and they leave me, but that has only happened once or twice.
(Commenting on:"Honesty is something which comes through a lot in your posts.
Is this what you would call total congruence?"):
Thank you. No, at least I've never thought of it like that. Congruence to
me is just
another NLP buzzword that gets people stuck! INcongruence is the foundation
of most, if not all good humor. I also change my mind alot, as I am a chronic
reframe-a-holic. So let's reframe that and say that I am a good learner
instead. NO, wait,
but the reframe-a-holic thing was kinda cute..no wait..but maybe if,
....nah....
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Darren: (Commenting on: "Gregory Rasputin: This is a guide to a Speed
Seduction» style called GM (Grand Master). Most SS resources make a slight
mention of GM, but they never explain it, because it doesn't seem
complex/intelligent enough. If you look for GM instructions all you'll find
will be just funny pick up lines. I think you shouldn't use those lines
yet, for one main reason: when you carry out that cocky and funny line, you
will make a woman laugh (provided you pull it off right), but after this
line, she will be expecting this funny cocky guy. The GM pick up line, is a
line that's supposed to represent your personality. You're a straight up,
funny, sex loving guy. So, if you're not what the line presents you to be,
you're gonna disappoint your girl when she gets to know you. GM isn't just
the funny pick up line. It's a way of talking to people, a way of living, a
way to lead a relationship, a way to dump a girl. It's a personality, and
it's an attitude. A GM does everything in an amusing, and cocky way."):
I don't think the GM style is a part of SS. What I get so far from this
post is that the GM style involves being very direct, blunt, and sometimes
crude, with your expression of your desires, and that it is often tempered
with humor.
(Commenting on: "..same way say, "Let's have sex over there". His attitude
is built on the foundation of knowing that women are just objects. They're
toys, and are property, hurting them doesn't matter as long as it doesn't
somehow indirectly hurt him. He dumps women with the same way he approaches
them. He's funny and cocky, and of course this hurts them."):
It seems that the GM style also involves treating women as objects, or
property. I choose to look at women as human beings, and always look for a
win/win situation in my interactions with them. To me, you should always
leave them better than you found them.
(Commenting on: "Now, he's not an asshole to girls. People often confuse
being an asshole with being fun. First of all, he makes them feel special.
An example of that would be when he tells a girl on the phone "Oh my God, I
missed you so much. See when I walk around I pretend like you're there.
Like, my mind has actually created an image of you beside me. I'd be like
'come on, Sarah, let's go inside', people would look strangely at me and
say 'uh..man, there's no one there', and I'd just choose not to hear that
and keep talking to you", the girl would always crack up. Of course she
knows he's talking bullshit, but he's not really trying to pass it off as
the truth, he's just making a joke about how special she is to him."):
I'm sure he's not an asshole to girls when he is still WITH them, but after
he's done with them, it certainly seems as if he dumps them out like
objects. To me, that IS being an asshole. Also, even when he is with them,
it doesn't seem that these expressions of how special she is to him are
genuine at all. Yes, she knows it is bullshit, but the power that these
words have is that, underneath all that humor, she thinks that he IS being
genuine -- he is just exaggerating things to add humor. This seems to be
related to the bratty little sister frame (Sis) in that that frame involves
teasing, ball-busting, and humor, but underneath all of that, it is usually
understood there is implied interest and that interest comes across as
genuine. Here, there is an OVERT statement of interest and desire, again
involving humor, but what comes across, at least to me, is that there is no
great attachment (after all, it involves seeing the woman as an object);
yet, to the girl, it does seem to come across as genuine. Therefore, this
involves being fake and pretending to feel something you don't to get
pussy. Not my style.
(Commenting on: "laughed, and I laughed even harder hearing about it. So,
of course, this compliment was bullshit, and it was obvious everyone knows
it's bullshit, because after all he's singing a Backstreet Boys song, but
it was still funny because he was pretending that all he said was true, and
of course it was flattering, and the humor increased that effect. Now this
is a very interesting way of complimenting, because it isn't supplicating,
because after all he is talking bullshit, but he still is complimenting
her. I mean, the words do come out of his mouth, and do assume a meaning in
the girl's head."):
Again, my assumption is that he was not genuine with his "compliment." In
effect, he is lying to get into her pants. To me, that IS supplicating.
(Commenting on: "...bringing up a point. If a girl bullshits him, he
doesn't flinch. Like I've said before, he absolutely doesn't care, they can
EASILY be replaced.")"
This is something important that any good master of seduction should do:
never attaching too much meaning to what a woman says or does, and
remaining calm in the face of resistance or bullshit. Therefore, I'm not
sure that this really defines the GM style.
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Mark B.:
Article from CNN.COM
"SAN DIEGO, California (AP) -- The brain waves of professional musicians
respond to music in a way that suggests they have an intuitive sense of the
notes that amateurs lack, researchers said Wednesday.
Neuroscientists, using brain-scanning MRI machines to peer inside the minds
of professional German violinists, found they could hear the music simply by
thinking about it, a skill amateurs in the study were unable to match.
The research offers insight into the inner workings of the brain and shows
that musicians' brains are uniquely wired for sound, researchers said at the
annual meeting of the Society for Neuroscience.
Neuroscientists often study how we hear and play music because it is one of
the few activities that use many functions of the brain, including memory,
learning, motor control, emotion, hearing and creativity, said Dr. Robert
Zatorre of the Montreal Neurological Institute. "It offers a window onto
the highest levels of human cognition," Zatorre said. In a study by
researchers at the University of Tuebingen, the brains of eight violinists
with German orchestras and eight amateurs were analyzed as
they silently tapped out the first 16 bars of Mozart's violin concerto in G
major. Brain scans showed professionals had significant activity in the
part of
their brains that controlled hearing, said Dr. Gabriela Scheler of the
University of Tuebingen. "When the professionals move their fingers, they
are also hearing the music in their heads," Scheler said. Amateurs, by
contrast, showed more activity in the motor cortex, the region that
controls finger movements, suggesting they were more preoccupied with
hitting the correct notes, she said. Scheler, a former violinist with the
Nuremberg Philharmonic Orchestra, said the findings suggested that
professionals have "liberated" their minds from
worrying about hitting the right notes. As a result, they are able to
listen, judge and control their play, Scheler said. "Presumably, this
enhances the musical performance," she said.
In a second experiment, the violinists were asked to imagine playing the
concerto without moving their fingers. Brain scans showed again that the
professionals were hearing the music in their heads. Zatorre, who has
studied the brain's response to music for two decades, said
it was the first time anyone had studied music and its relationship to
motor control and imagery".
(Mark's Comments begin:)
I believe we need to be the same way somehow by letting ourselves go and
allowing things to come very naturally - like effortless effort. I remember
one point in the summer I picked up a HB 9.5 face a HB 8.5 body. All I did
was just tell her what I wanted. I said "I want your pussy. I want to fuck
you. I want to blow my load all over your face....." All with without any
particular thought to whether or not she would be offended or not. I fucked
her on the 3rd meeting. Just a matter of allowing your natural state to come
out. This is where I repeatedly talk about being yourself - in my case that
is being in total control and going for what I want. This is where I am at
my best and my true self comes out. Ross may be great at word patterns
because he may be well wired to be great at that. His skill was improved by
actively improving himself as a
communicator. Listening to his tapes you know he is great at communicating
his ideas in clear and well thought out patterns. Sisonpyh may be great at
being funny and cocky and David may be great at being honest. All their
success can be easily attributed to their natural way of being because what
they do they are good at because they are wired for that. Patterns do not
work for me and neither does being cocky/funny. My natural strength I feel
is in the area of thought and ideas and then expressing what I believe and
think. The best way for me to accomplish this is by asserting and
expressing my thoughts and opinions and giving direction and advice. When I
am this way, acting with leadership coming off as if I know what is best for
a woman or anyone in general, I get the best results.
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Mike W.:
I would like to recommend that people check out David Deida.
He is an author and seminar leader, and his work is about
the sexual dynamics in male/female relationships.
His book "The Way of the Superior Man" teaches men
how to be a no-bullshit, take-no-prisoners ass-kicker
who has a heart of gold. It's mostly geared towards men
who are already in relationships, but the attitudes and
mind/body states that he describes are perfect for
seduction as well. On David Deida's web site, www.deida.com, he posts a
weekly
chapter from "The Way of the Superior Man", and this week
he is starting with Chapter 1.
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Flying Dutchman:
I’m going to share a new technique in seducing called Target Learning (TL).
Therefore, let me tell a little history first. At high school I was just an
average
student, studying hard to get through my exams. My grades were always a bit
disappointing since it took me so much effort to read all these books, make
extracts, attending lessons and
then still getting so little results. At a certain point, I was even
advised to go study at
another school. It wasn’t fair to me as I worked hard. I decided I had to
clean up
my act and I developed a new learning technique I called TL.
TL is like learning the other way around. Instead off studying all these
books and
attending all those lessons I started to copy previous exams and learn from
that. I
tried to get as many previous exams as possible and then I would mark the
passages in
the book that are important and before an exam I would just learn those
marked passages.
What happened then was really amazing. My grades actually increased from
6's to 8's! (here
in Holland we give grades from 1 to 10 (10 is excellent). I actually had
better results
with less work!!! To me this technique has been SO useful, that I actually
graduated
university last year!
Stunned by the amazing results I then wondered: “Would it also be possible
to use the
same technique to attract and seduce women?†About ten years ago, girls
would made fun at
me, called me a loser and a nerd (no kidding!). I then started to use TL
and now I have
had two great relationships, one that lasted for two years and one which
lasted for four
years. Both with real 10's (no kidding again, these girls where SO hot,
that when I would
enter a club with them they would instantly be the hottest chicks around
and the guys
would look at me with envy).
Then after the last break up I got confused. What went wrong? I then
started to discover
my flaws by reading newsletters and books. So I finally had to do my
homework after all.
;-) Now I learned from my mistakes, cleaned up my act and dating has never
been so easy
to me.
So what made me so successful? How did I use TL to improve my seduction skills?
Almost the same as like learning my exams. Start leaning the other way
around. When
going out, I stopped looking at HB's and instead look at the guy she was
with. What is
his attitude? What is he wearing? How is he behaving himself around her?
I also made friends with some PUA's and watched their looks, their
techniques and their
behaviour. I made notations, figured out certain patterns and then made it
my own based
what worked out best for me.
The list of notations I made in these ten years has become very extensive
now, but I'd
like to share some remarkable things with you. First, the PUA's I made
friends with all
had some things in common:
Appearance
· They have a tanned face
· They are athletically built
· They dress very fashionably
Body language»
· They lock eyes with an HB and give her their full attention
· They smile in a friendly way
· They use kino
Attitude
· They are very self assured (confident)
· They appear aloof
· They are very funny and laugh a lot
· They never quit
Behaviour
· They show power
· They set up a challenge
Conversation
· They talk to all girls
· They are very positive when talking about other people
· They are very subtle in the way they talk
· They offer the girl an opportunity to go out with them
Next time I'll give some examples and I’ll tell you about Tom, the best PUA
I have ever
seen.
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Nemo:
(Commenting on: "Question: There is a school of thought that men should
only listen to women's problems and not be solvers of them because
women want men to empathize with them rather than offer solutions
because by being a solver you become a part of the problem. Another school of
thought suggests that we give women leadership, focus and direction which
implies giving her direction and thus becoming a solution provider to her.
So we want to be empathetic yet leaders, focus and solution providers.
I find giving leadership works better even if we risk having her feel not
heard. If anyone has any strong opinions on this please make them known."):
Providing leadership doesn't have to include being a problem solver--I
think that's probably the last thing any of us reading this list want. I
think it's typical (and AFC) to try and solve a woman's problems. It all
goes back to the "knight in shining armor" bullshit that society programs
us with from Day one. We are supposed to feel the need to come to a woman's
rescue whenever her cat shits on the rug, or something trivial like
that. Let's think about it--this chick had problems before she met you,
right? (Not you specifically, but men in general). At what point do we
think we can solve them better than she? And why do we want to? It sounds
like a lot of work, and it's probably not going to make her want to lay you
any way.
In reality, this (like many other things) is an example of women wanting
their cake and eating it too. They say they don't want a man to fix their
problems, but if you don't try you end up on Oprah being reamed by Dr. Phil
for not being emotionally involved in the relationship.
It's important to frame from the beginning that you are detached from her
problems--just fucking stay out of the way. Let them know from the start
that as much as you care about her as a person (this may vary, of course
=)), you are not there to solve her problems. What will happen is that she
will ask you for advice, rather than see you as an emotional garbage dump to
unload about her bad day at work. My LTR knows that I have enough stress in
my life to hear anything besides "my day could have been better--want to
come over later?"
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NightLight9:
(Commenting on: "He is totally smitten by her, and Jill
notices them together and how he is totally into her, so she in turn ends up
wanting Hal again. [sinp] My question here is: Is being seen
in public with a lesser attractive chyck on your arm when you go places just
as good as having a 10+ in terms of social proof? or would you be better off
being seen alone? or would it be better to be seen with a 10?
Cliff's Comment: From what you wrote above, it seems that the key element
is not as much being seen with a hot chick as it is being seen with a chick
who is totally into you."):
NightLight9 responds: In this case it's that HE is into the new chick. This
works not with social proof so much as people wonder if they made mistakes
when they break up with someone. Typically if a woman breaks up with a man,
she will keep him wondering if she will take him back, even when she has no
intention of doing so. If she sees she can't get him back, it raises her
competitive fires and makes her reevaluate her judgement in jettisoning him
in the first place. This wouldn't be nearly as effective on a girl who
never dated you. With new targets, you need a girl who hot or who is an
expert pivot.
(Commenting on: "MarkB.: Question: There is a school of thought that men
should only listen
to women's problems and not be solvers of them because women want men to
empathize with them rather than offer solutions because by being a solver
you become a part of the problem. Another school of thought suggests that
we give women leadership, focus and direction which implies giving her
direction and thus becoming a solution provider to her.
So we want to be empathetic yet leaders, focus and solution providers.
I find giving leadership works better even if we risk having her feel not
heard. If anyone has any strong opinions on this please make them known."):
NightLight9 comments: My experience of offering solutions is very negative
in general. I'm interested to hear your success stories. The times when I
have been successful are when I've offered confidence boosting cheer
leading vs.
true, honest advice as I would a man. Of course, if a woman asks me what she
should do I will give her advice. Typically though, I find it better to let
her arrive at the solution than tell her outright. It's not like I need
credit for it anyway, if she feels she succeeds when she is around you, she
will link that to you.
(Commenting on: "Ciz: [snip on rape...]Is the only answer to videotape the
girl notarizing a
document agreeing to consensual sex?"):
NightLight9: I will agree that rape prosecution has grown in generality,
mostly for the better in the US. It is still a difficult crime to prosecute
and prove. Generally her word against yours is not enough to prove it.
There usually has to be proof of forcible intercourse. This generally means
a examination of the woman the night of the incident. Otherwise, most cases
are not pushed except for situations where the defendant or victim is of
interest to the prosecuter (famous, etc.). One good defense is to always wear
a condom. That typically makes it more difficult to argue that the act
wasn't consensual.
Overall though, this isn't something that you should concern yourself with
as long as you only engage in consensual sex, and avoid women who
demonstrate mental instability.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
| cliff’s list advertisment section |
| Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are
just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links
to these emails. The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take
over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such
as proper mailing list software) for this list. If you were going to buy the product
anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going
at no extra cost to anyone. NON SEDUCTION-RELATED:
RECOMMENDED:
NOT REVIEWED YET:
|
| cliff’s free plugs section |
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all
recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back
here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up —
from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of
weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):
|
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