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She never mentioned being married
8/7/02 1:36:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time
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Cliff's List Website
http://www.cliffslist.com/
Please go to the website for a full list of the rules, disclaimers,
suggested links and referrals to other seduction sites and explanations of
what this list is all about. Seminar, workshop & conference schedules are
on the website also, as is a glossary of terms that may be used here that
you may be unfamilar with.
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Cliff's Comment: Try this as a suggested alternative to the sometimes
suggested "do you want to kiss me" (when you are at that awkward moment
when you are with a woman and aren't sure if you should move in for the
kiss or not), say: "I don't know why but I have this feeling you aren't a
very good kisser." Offer challenge and structure opportunity.
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Ross Jeffries(http://www.speed-seduction.com/):
As I have been promising, I want to do a review of some of the main lessons
we hammered on in Atlanta. This will by no means be exhaustive, and if you
want the full impact, the ONLY way to do that is to come to a seminar. We
have two SS seminars remaining this year:
Montreal, August 8, 9, & 10 which is a HUGE bargain and Palo Alto, Sept 13,
14 and 15.
Now...
One point I hammered on heavily is that for the tools to work, you have to
have the understandings about women and people that power the tools, as
well as certain ideas about yourself.
You see, beliefs can do many things.
1. Beliefs can open or close flows of energy
2. Beliefs can open or close awareness and perception
3. Beliefs can open or close access to skills and talents
4. Beliefs finally tend to confirm themselves, and bring about those
circumstances, conditions and people that "prove" them true.
I used the illustration of a student who told me that he was doing very
well with the material. He chatted up a VERY hot woman..someone who prior
to SS he wouldn't have even dared talked to...got GREAT responses, and
number closed her.
2 days later, when he went to call her, he couldn't find the number! He
even went dumpster diving to see if he could find it in his trash, and
then, he said, "his old self came back". He could feel his energy/belief
crashing completely and we went back to being depressed, supplicating, etc.
His "old self" was organized around a belief: I just can't succeed with
women. That old self carried a whole cluster of behaviors/energy/emotions
and ideas along with it.
So..what are the "beliefs" that power Speed Seduction»?
Again, I am not going to give away the store here. But let me start with this:
In the realm of physical law, there are real limits to what we can do. But
when it comes to moving human emotion, imagination and behavior, there is
virtually no limit to what you can get people to experience and do, and the
degree of your "attractiveness" to others is greater than even your wildest
dreams IF you can master 4 skills:
1. Controlling your energy/state/awareness and intent.
2. Evoking and eliciting other people's processes and structures and
capturing and leading their imagination and emotions.
3. Establishing your authority in THEIR world.
4. Being able to recognize and deal with people's auto-pilot responses and
making sure to be aware of and keep away from your own auto-pilot responses
that DO NOT SERVE YOU and to train in the ones that do! (auto-pilot
responses can be socially-culturally conditioned in.
If you can master those 4 skills, your "attractiveness" is something that
will be way beyond anything you have yet explored.
(By the way, to learn these skills, you should come to an SS seminar or a
Magick/PI seminar. No one in the world has come up with better ways to
master these skills and most aren't even aware of them)
Here is a belief that flows from this, no matter where you are at with SS;
whether you are a Rick H. banging 5 hot women at once, or a beginner
struggling to get his first phone number:
"I have yet to explore the full extent to which my attractiveness can manifest"
As far as proof that beliefs can open up or close access to perceptions,
awareness, energy, behavior...try repeating that sentence out loud 3-4
times and see how your energy and attitude and sense of possibility shifts
and changes.
Other Key Cognitions:
Cognitions can be ideas about what moves other people, how they work and
they can also be ideas that express how you view yourself, what you will
and won't do, etc.
1. Most women are good people, who love sex, but many of them are running
on auto-pilot most of the time, and some of them believe, in certain
contexts, that they have license to be cunts. (E.g. the club-queen/bitch
might actually be very nice if approached in a different context...say a
line at a coffee place or elsewhere. Her behavior is contextually related)
2. (I owe the essence of this to Riker) It is safe to assume there is a
part of her somewhere that WANTS to do what you want her to do, but it is
very unlikely there is a part of her that wants to do what you TELL her to
do or a part of her that wants to verbally explicitly AGREE to sexual
activity, at least not the first time you get together).
3. They can do whatever they want: ***I*** control where my energy goes.
4. Anything they give me is just a toy for me to play with.
5. Anything they give me is just information I can use.
6. In any interaction between two people, SOMEONE is going to wind up
setting the intent and the frame. If ***I** don't do it, it will be left up
to chance or whomever has the stronger will. Therefore, ***I** will set it
and keep it.
7. I never take a woman's first responses to me as being the written in
stone, forever "truth". I only take it as a reflection of what she might be
thinking, feeling or believing IN THAT CONTEXT, IN THAT MOMENT.
8. Her first responses may even have nothing to do with me; they may be
reflections of past pain/ past bad experiences.
9. Her first responses may not even have to do with her past; they may be
totally based on the environmental or emotional context in which she finds
herself.
10. It is important for me to create a permanent sense of attractiveness;
this might vary a bit from day to day - we all have "bad hair days",
sickness, fatigue, great life stresses, but fundamentally it is always
there, and it is NOT based on the responses I get from them, but rather on
my sense of self-control; my ability to control my awareness, energy,
intent and state, because I know this kind of self-control is something
everyone, men and women, unconsciously sense and are drawn to. THIS ALWAYS
REMAINS UNDER MY CONTROL and is never up to any woman or women's opinions.
It is MY responsibility, MY authority, MY POWER.
11. There is NO limit to my attractiveness if I can master the 4 skills I
mentioned above. I can't control my genetic "gifts" but I CAN work daily on
these 4 skills.
12. I am not here to perform for HER. SHE must perform for ME and
demonstrate compliance, willingness, curiosity, giving, etc.
13. You really don't have to do that much with a normal, healthy woman. You
don't have to zap them into deep trance or send them soaring into space.
You just need to bring out what is there in the right frame/context, anchor
it, amplify it and use it to close.
14. Be aware and alert for heat AND comfort. Create a balance between these
two.
15. The "canned" patterns work best when they get a woman talking. Talking
is NOT "interrupting". It is HER way of re-enacting/re-vivifying those
feelings and states. When she talks, she is offering you high quality
information as well as displaying states you can anchor!
16. GATHERING INFORMATION AND NOTICING RESPONSES IS A HUGE PART OF SS SUCCESS.
17. 4 main stages of SS:
1. Approach/get attention
2. engaging them...drawing them out, exciting their further interest,
building reasons/motivation for them to want to talk to you further.
3. Awakening: stimulating their deeper processes, structures, emotions,
feelings, imagination.
4. Amplifying: getting them ready for action through amplifying tools.
5. Close...or shall we say "Open" them for sexual activity.
18. Always be aware/alert for a "close" opportunity: test early for
receptivity to physical touch, kissing, etc.
Alright..that is it..FOR starters. I realize the implications of all this
are yet to be explored for most of you, but trust me as I tell you, they
are PROFOUND. You will have to come to a seminar to "put the meat on the
bones," so to speak.
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Linwood: I was wondering if anyone had a copy of How to be the Jerk that
Women love. I'd like to buy or borrow a copy.
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Card File(http://mindiscovery.itgo.com/ NLP & SS):
I am starting a Yahoogroup about the Male Multiple Orgasm. I am just
starting out learning myself and got the idea from a person on your list. I
am hoping that a few experts or people that have achieve the MMM can join
in and help the others out.
It is going to deal with a few things:
1. Getting started
2. Mentality behind it
3. Exercises
4. The physiology involved.
Hopefully I can get some members and start others down the path. As a
beginner, it is frustrating not to have a forum to bounce ideas back and
forth.
mal***m@ya***.com[ ? ]
mal***e@ya***.com[ ? ]
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Gregory Rasputin:
>Ronnie: I've used "I really like what you're TRYING to do with your
hair." Also when standing in front of her and she is yapping about who
knows what. Kind of look over the side of her arm and shoulder down at her
ass from the side, so that she catches you, then in a deadpan unimpressed
grunt "huh" as though you are really unimpressed with the saddlebags she
has for an ass. I was in the fitness industry for over 10 years and there
are 4 areas that ALL women are worried about. The back of their arms, their
lower tummy, their inner thighs and most of all their saddlebags. Food for
thought.
Gregory Rasputin: Ronnie my man. Don't put too much effort into thinking
up negs. First of all, don't forget what their purpose is. You don't just
insult a girl, and then she'll go "fuck me now". In THEORY, they are meant
to lower the self-confidence of over-confident girls. They're meant to be
used only on those girls who think that they're too good to make eye
contact with you, and the only point of lowering their self-confidence is
so that they'll be a little more down to earth, and a little more receptive
to you. There are other ways to accomplish this very same thing though, and
the line between insults and negs often becomes blurry for new students.
You never know when your 'negs' will hit a softspot and ruin her day.
>The Thomas Crown Affair-recommended by DeAngelo. I am not sure if he is
referring to the recent Pierce Brosnan movie, or the original Steve McQueen
film. The original had a “famous†chess game seduction scene. I didn’t get
that much out of the scene except perhaps eye contact and attitude. I
didn’t watch much of the movie after that scene, which occurs about halfway
through. The Brosnan movie didn’t do anything for me.
Gregory Rasputin: The new Thomas Crown affair with Pierce Brosnan is
probably the best demonstration out there of how an alpha-male walks, how
he talks. Just look carefully at all of Pierce's gesture's, every little
thing, the way he turns his head, where his hands are when he's standing
still. Shit, he should give a seminar on how to carry yourself like he does.
>Meet Joe Black--PUA lying his ass off, mirroring (this is at the
beginning, the rest of the movie was so dull that I couldn’t watch it all
the way through). David DeAngelo claims that The Tao of Steve, Top Gun,
Chocolat, Cruel Intentions, and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon all have
good PUA examples, though the PUAs end up wussing out and becoming AFC in
the end.
Gregory Rasputin: Finding a girl who's perfect for you, is not becoming an
AFC. Meet Joe Black is also a great movie that shows what it's like to have
great confidence. The guys who emulate Brad Pitt's passion are the
fuck-beasts. Just watch that movie once more, but with a girl this time,
and listen to the kind of comments SHE'LL make.
>PUA Books: the Cliffs Notes version (beta) Finally in a fit of stupidity
I proudly told her. She excused herself to the ladies room and I ain't seen
that bitch yet!!!!! : )
Gregory Rasputin: I love the age question. It gives me an opportunity to
use Steph's line about "do you believe in reincarnation?", "Well, my soul
is 5,000,000 years old, give or take 300". I'm writing a list of all the
shitiest questions women ask, and using them as opportunities to display
strong character, and build more intrigue. Anyone here got any more
questions from women that they hate?
Cliff's Comment: My standard answer for the age question is "Old enough to
know better than to answer questions like that." And let them threaten to
have nothing further to do with me if I don't answer the question (or even
leave, if they feel that strongly about it), but experience has taught me
that (in most cases) whenever you answer these seemingly critical questions
(where if they don't get an answer they are out of there), the balloon sort
of bursts and the power shifts to their side. No matter what they are
going to do or say, they won't get an answer out of me until I am ready to
give it. Try that sometime.
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Secrets of the Rich and Happy'):
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So, in order to get your free copy (PDF version) simply click on this coded
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Also please note that The Sex Secrets Revealed home study course has been
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Justin:
The thing that I am most curious about is how Mystery and other people that
have similar styles can do these routines and stories on girls or even
groups in a club. The music is so loud I have to be almost yelling so my
wingman can hear me. It seems to me that the best way to do things at a
club is to just walk up and grab/dance with a girl and make some fun small
talk and be done with talking. How do you guys do it???
Cliff's Comment: One of the more intriguing statements I have seen is in
Advanced Macking where one night stand master Anthony Berger says "the
louder the better." Anthony, any comments for Justin here?
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DB:
I had a recent situation that took me by surprise. I sarged a gal and got
her cell number. I called this number and a guy answered. I asked for the
woman and the guy said who is this and said he was the husband. I gave my
first name and said I was calling about a loan. This guy sounded irritated
and started asking his wife about the loan. At that point I hung up. this
took me by surprise, I suppose I should have hung up as soon as I heard a
male voice, but this situation is new to me. When I sarged her she never
mentioned being married, she was with friends and I don't recall a ring
either (maybe at some point she slipped it off). Any perspective on this
baffling perspective would be appreciated. Why a woman would want to do
something this reckless (as opposed to giving a work #) is beyond me. Is it
just that most men are clueless and most women are that unhappily married
that they due this out of some deep need to rebel?
Cliff's Comment: First, don't assume that she's married just because some
guy answered her cell phone. Two weeks ago I got a call at 2:00 a.m. from
a guy claiming to be the boyfriend for the last 4 years of this HB I had
met downtown. She apparently had printed out one of my emails and he found
it. As a side note, I took a page from Glenn Hughes off the now
discontinued Speed Seduction» Advanced Masters' Tapes and told the guy that
'the buck stops here. Don't take this the wrong way, but if she's
interested in me it's because you haven't been taking care of all of her
needs.' He didn't expect that response from me but thanked me and made
some other noises of respect which actually I got a kick out of. But the
end result is that she contacted me after, apologized for this guy's
behaviour and said that they were not going out seriously now and that he
found the email by going through her purse and that she was seriously
pissed at him for this. And she has clearly indicated ongoing interest in
seeing me. The second thing is that I would next time think about not
lying. Hey, this woman gave you her phone number and I am assuming that
you did not get it on false pretenses and that she did this clearly with
the understanding that this is a male-female thing (if you got it under
some other pretext, that's a different story). I would have been straight
with the guy - it doesn't look like you have anything to lose to start with
here anyway. Tell him that she gave you the phone number and you are
calling to speak to her - she's the one setting the situation up to cheat
on her husband (if he is her husband) so why should you cover up for her
infidelity to him and her deceptive behaviour to you? Let them both know
they are dealing with a man who is not going to back down and who, by his
actions and attitude, demands respect.
DB: My second situation is a frustrating ongoing one and I feel handcuffed
in dealing with it. I play on a volleyball team and this one guy on the
team is in a sex only relationship with this gal who is the stepdaughter of
a guy who runs this team. This gal has made subtle kino touches with me
(brushing aside me, leaning against me, asking me to play darts) lately.
But her sex buddy is like omnipresent at the bar after our games. Anytime
I speak to her and she trances out (I talk about certain things to her that
she likes), this guy comes out of nowhere and kinos the crap out of her, at
which point I talk to someone else. This last week, however, the HB was
cold to me at the bar: either this guy backstabbed me or she has gotten
frustrated at me not making a real move now that I have returned her subtle
kino attempts. The advice I have been given so far is that if I make a move
on her I must be discreet and treat it like this guy is a bf. It makes me
mad though because initially this gal wanted to date this guy seriously
(she asked him out) and he said no. This is because he has another
relationship going like this one with this other HB where it is all sex. So
it's ok for him to be a player but of course she can't do anything on the
side. Surprisingly, I am the only guy (other than maybe one other) that
knows what is going on: this HB's uncle who plays on the team asked her
recently if she was in a relationship, and she said no. These two always
leave the bar together, and once I just happened to leave the same time
they did and they were about to get in the same car together but saw me and
stopped and were waiting for me to leave. I acted like I lost something and
stalled and so did they. Eventually I went back to the bar and they left
separately. My guess is that they are trying to hide this from her parents
and step uncle who she is close to for whatever reasons. Now that I
consider this guy who is in a FB relationship with her my enemy, I am going
to naively mention their situation to this uncle as payback for his rude
cockblocking. Call me spiteful, but what goes around comes around.
This HB is having a party at some bar, and I asked her if it was ok to show
up, she gave me a lukewarm ok, so if she has any hot friends I'll sarge
them (or any other bar patrons) or ask her to introduce me to them...
either she will get jealous or write me off. I am sure the FB will be
there, so again I will be handcuffed.
So my question is, how do you guys deal with situations like this, when
there is an FB around, how do you discreetly make a move under there radar?
This girl is young so she responds to this guy's strong lead of kino, and
it makes it hard for me to do much.
Cliff's Comments: I wouldn't lower yourself to mentioning the situation to
the uncle - this won't raise your status in anyone's eyes and just have
them see you as a prick. Just because he's a prick doesn't justify you
acting like one as well. It sounds like she's cooled on you in any event -
if you get some new IOI's from her, get her email address or find out where
she works and call her there. Totally ignore the FB - she'll deal with
that if she's interested in you. Don't bring him up - focus on you and her
and not the rest of the world.
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Maximillian Hell:
Food for Thought: I know I am sounding like an armchair seductionist these
days, but I am a total insomniac, so I have a lot of time on my hands when
I simply cannot sarge.
I want to mention a very lively and insightful book I’ve came across:
Heroes of Eros: Male Sexuality in the Movies, by Michael Malone. Published
in 1979, it covers the variety of romantic and sexual roles that actors
have played from the silent era on. Alot of what we talk about in this
newsletter is covered in this book and it will sound familiar to most of you.
Although there was really no specific new tactics that I learned, I think
many guys could get a lot out of it. It isn’t a hokey “men’s studies†book.
Though it refers a lot to myth and to Freud, it is overall relatively
plainspoken.
Malone argues that film, particularly during the big studio era and up
until the 1970s, was a form of folk art that expressed a lot of mythic
patterns in our culture. What I found most interesting are two things: the
variety of archetypes of men that have appealed to women over the years,
and how the favored male types appear to go in and out of fashion. To
summarize and oversimplify, up until the brink of World War II, the â€nice
guy†got the girl. Then, beginning with Bogart and continuing well into the
1970s, the rebel and bad boy began to dominate. Malone concludes that at
the time of his writing, he is beginning to see a return to the
stable-provider type of man.
He also notes a number of other types that seem to appeal under different
circumstances: the vulnerable or wounded hero, the purely sexual seducer,
the exotic foreigner, and the father-protector. He also talks about what
kinds of actors and roles didn’t work, and frequently notes how looks alone
could not make a screen idol--citing numerous actors who fell by the
wayside to less physically attractive actors such as Bogart or Gable (both
actors are described as possessing a “tough sweetnessâ€).
Many in the.speed-seduction.community» cite film as a source of role models, but
there have been many “styles†on the silver screen. No single style
predominates. There is a broad variety of figures in the history of film
that a PUA could potentially utilize. Malone gets into the nuts and bolts
of the appeal of particular actors, what makes a Valentino, a Bogart or a
Brando appealing, what kind of woman they were usually paired with on
screen--and sometimes in real life--and under what circumstances. An MM
practitioner might want to model himself on Gable, an SS practitioner on
Valentino, or pick and choose or switch-hit styles, depending on the
circumstances.
In an interesting aside, Malone writes how Americans despise the idea of
the PUA or seductionist: “…an American male…has no tradition offering
‘lover’ as an acceptable essential identity. Quite the contrary. He’s
taught to suspect and demean such a role. Men must never exist solely, or
even primarily in a sexual sphere; they must not even be terribly
knowledgeable about love-making techniques or cultivate romantic expertise.
Among the psychological habits of this country (for we make virtues of all
our insufficiencies) is a willed naivete (we call it simple honesty,
purity, or being just plain folks), a kind of self-congratulatory ignorance
that has been nowhere more apparent than in our conception of male
sexuality. In the early days of American film, sexual sophistication was an
unmistakable sign of villainy-as was any other kind of sophistication: All
invariably met in the same decadent, tuxedoed cad who seduced poor Lillian
Gish. He was urban and urbane, wealthy, upper-class, educated, often
foreign, and always bad.â€
I am sure many of us in North America have encountered such attitudes.
Malone also says that at the time of writing, little had been written on
the subject of the sexual roles of men in the movies, except for a very
negative book called Big Bad Wolves: Masculinity in the American Film,
which was written by a woman, Joan Mellon. What a title! I am curious to
look at it.
--
On a different note. A short quote from something else I am reading,
reflecting scarcity, from JFK: Reckless Youth by Nigel Hamilton. The quote
is from the 1940s: “Kick [JFK’s sister] had once written to Jack that she
couldn’t ‘really understand why I like Englishmen so much as they treat one
in quite an offhand manner and aren’t really as nice to their women as
Americans, but I suppose it’s just that sort of treatment that women really
like. That’s your technique isn’t it?’ Kay Stammers certainly felt
so……’British men treat women differently from the way American men do.
American men idolize women, but to an Englishman, his clubs and his sports
are likely to come before his women….Jack had much more of an Englishman’s
attitude toward women. He really didn’t give a damn. He liked to have them
around and he liked to enjoy himself but he was quite unreliable. He did as
he pleased.â€
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Harold:
Re: www.milfhunter.com
Are you familiar with the above link-url? If not please have a look at it.
Whence you have, tell me what your suspicions are!!! Now this guy prances
around with a digicam in hand, picking up "mothers" on the street. Oddly, I
don't see much of a rapport PUA technique (cos they seem game without being
scored on)...so has this guy pre-prepped his targets (are they just playing
to the lens cam?) or is this guy simply all balls pitching the fact for a
video trade for money deal to his beauties?...and my God he ain't pitching
at uglies either!!!!!!!!!
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