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Who said anything about SLEEPING?!
10/24/01 4:21:40 PM Eastern Standard Time

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Remember to remember to attend The David Seminar:
Now you can pay through Paypal and this allows payments by credit
cards.  Just go to www.paypal.com (the email address you need to use is
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ]).

The seminar will be held November 16-18 here in Montreal and more
information is available by emailing me.  Cost is $500 US with a $200 US
deposit.  Early registrations are greatly encouraged.

David will be elaborating on his system to find, meet, attract, bed, and
keep women.

Among the topics David will discuss and present his views on will be:
- Confidence
- How to really get back your ex or to attract that one special girl
- How to pick up strippers
- How to create, manage and keep a "stable" of women simultaneously
- How to have threesomes and multiples
- How to overcome resistance when you are about to close the deal
- How he uses language (he has many unique ideas that you won't learn
through NLP or anywhere else)
- The importance of setting your rules and sticking to them
- How honesty, trust and respect are your golden keys (this is the reframe
to beat all reframes)
and much more. David will also spend time giving his ideas about how to
solve your individual issues.

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Mark B.:
I found another great site for understanding and dealing with women.
Check out www.successways.com and go the section entitled FAQ for men. A great
section where the author details an extensive understanding of women but more
on relationships and what both sexes look for. You can also get his book
How to Succeed with
Women which is the same title of the other book by Copeland and Louis I am
reading.
What I found intriguing is where he talks about why women give out mixed
messages and
act incongruent and what to do about it. He says the reason is that women
feel incongruent
and act that way in order to have a man put them back in line and offer
them direction for
they do not feel like they have it themselves. This is where being in
control takes its root.
If you do not provide her with direction through control and your own
congruent behaviour
she does not get what she is looking for. This is why in the past whenever
I challenged a woman's
flimsy behaviour and gave her direction she always warmed up to me and when
I did not they
usually walked. In addition so many women say they lose attraction for a
man who does
everything to please her and she can have his way with him. He in essence
is not calming her
lack of congruity and she feels vulnerable to the world and loses
attraction. I think this is where
the roots of being a nice guy versus a jerk and a supplicant versus a
selfish guy begin.
Therefore it seems that when we challenge her behaviour, stand up to her,
give her direction,
tell her what is good for her she feels good around you because that is
what she wants.

The site contains tons of other useful stuff. I highly recommend this site
and the book as well.

Last night I printed off the entire FAQ for men from www.succeessways.com
and read the whole 30 pages. I also ordered How to Succeed with Women by
Anthony Badalamenti that wrote
the insights in the site. The insights are amazing because they concur
which virtually everything I
experienced in the real world. They are excellent because they tell you
what women are thinking, how to deal with their incongruity and why it
exists, how to make a good first impression, what women want from men and
on and on. One of the best because it tells you how women react to your
actions and how your actions make her feel.

Question for all of you. Here is some background info. I recently
discovered that there is a strong possibility that a woman I have been
pursuing for a while may actually be gay but she has never admitted that to
me.  Here is the evidence:
She never told me she was gay but insisted we stay just friends - no woman
has ever insisted that we become just friends except her. If they were not
interested they either did not respond to me or simply indulged in my
attention and liked it although never succumbing to my romantic wishes. She
took great offence to any gay jokes I ever said. Once she said to me
"What's the matter with you, you do not like gay people?" She said she had
many gay friends and lives on a gay Street in Toronto. She told me she
knows a lot about gay history and how many people married just for show
while being secretly gay. She was married to a man for 10 months. She
claimed he refused to sleep with her long before the marriage began. He had
an affair and confronted her with a picture of the other woman and demanded
a divorce. She is a perfect 10 and no man would refuse sex with her no
matter how much he disliked her. I think she refused to sleep with him and
lied about it to cover up. Otherwise why would he respond the way he did
when he said he loved her dearly? Once she accused me of taking her pants
off while she was sleeping on our first date, we were dozing but I thought
she knew what was happening. She exploded on me and said she only wanted to
be friends.
In the last three years she has had at least different three female
roommates and now lives with a woman, the 4th one now, although she is a
high income earner (80k and up). No single, straight, high income earner
women I know lived with so many women over such a short period or even any
women at all.
She never actually said she likes men or is attracted to them but she was
married to a man and said she dated them in the past. Based on this I
assumed she was straight. She has never really said anything positive about
straight men and once said she prefers the company of gay men.
She has always scorned at any women that have become involved with all of
her female friends girlfriends. She has taken great offence to any
suggestions of us becoming romantically involved and any jokes I may have
made regarding us being romantically involved or the slightest suggestions
of us having sex, dating, kissing or whatever. She became very angry and
upset at the smallest hint of any of that.
When she met my mother she said my mother was "A VERY BEAUTIFUL WOMAN"
emphasis on very beautiful. No other woman that has ever met my mother ever
commented on my mother's looks let alone the many times she did. I have
slept with over 50 women and gone out with 3 times as many in my 28 years
of life and no straight woman has ever behaved this way.
Could this one be really gay and just hides it to protect her prim and
proper image?
What do you guys think?

I also wanted to know what is the real motivation for any of you to want to
become great PUA's. Other than having sexual gratification what motivates
you to have the ability to have and get many women.  A friend of mine who
is on the list suggested that many of the things we post are hateful to
women. I would disagree but I am curious what are the deep seated
motivations for us being so heavily involved in wanting to be highly
successful with the opposite sex?
My motivation seems to be looking for the woman that will accept me for who
I am and admire me and my accomplishments without judgement as well as
provide me with freedom to go about my life without constraint or
judgement. This may be why I love dancers because they work nights and do
not tie themselves into you as other women on weekends because they work.
Hence I am free to chase other women. Also the more better looking women I
have and sleep with seems to elevate my sense of self worth as a man to the
world. I love it when people see with a hot women by my side. I feel great
power from that.  How about you?

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Ross:
(Commenting on: "Bucky: I'm wondering, how do some of you guys handle
flakiness from chicks? Lately, practically every girl that has agreed to
meet me for a coffee date has ended up not showing up. What's up with that?
It should be noted that all these girls are right around the ages of 19-21
so I assume that flakiness should be expected. I'm curious about how much
the flakiness has to do with me and how much it has to do with the fact
that young girls are generally pretty flaky. If anyone has experience in
dealing with younger chicks, your help would be appreciated."):

At that age they are bombarded with SO much stimulus, you don't last very
long in their minds. The best way to get these chicks, at this age, is to
nail them the same day you meet them, preferably at a party or some such thing.

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Stephane:
Commenting on Stephanie: (”What the guys in your newsletter
don't seem to get is that slight manipulation is one thing, but flat out
deception is not right.)

Where do you come off saying that about us?  I have read each any every
single one of these emails (That’s A LOT of reading!) and not ONCE have I
read anything about deception.  You’re deceiving yourself about most of the
men on this list, Stephanie.

Commenting on (“We all play little games in the matter of love, but
becoming someone you have no ability to be does not work. I am all for
improving ourselves, but we need to also remember to be realistic with our
limitations.)

I am 5 foot 10, and will never be 6 foot 2.  I’ve accepted that.  But if
you’re referring to traits of personality, communication skills, beliefs,
or ANY inner qualities and characteristics whatsoever, then I’m going to
have to disagree.  If you want to engage in the activity of ‘being
realistic’ about your limitations, then I strongly urge you realistically
view them as things you can change.  Go ahead and try to show me ONE
limitation in a human being that can’t be altered in some way.  In fact,
I’m even going to go so far as to say that staying the same is absolutely
impossible.  What YOU don’t seem to get is that deep deep inside you, and
all of us, there’s a learning machine that’s soooooo special…

Commenting on MTL_PUA (Always works. Stick your fist out and say "Don't
leave me hanging on this!" Let them knock your fist with theirs. It's a
sign of acceptance and creates an immediate bond. I have used this with
HB9/10's and it lowers their bitch shield fairly fast.)

I don’t get it.  Could you explain this further?  Anything to lower bitch
shields…

Commenting on (I order 2 drinks, and as I turn around. I can see her
extending her hand for the drink (I bought it for NL9 actually), so I just
go see NL9 right away and give it to him. I turn around and she has that "I
can't believe you!!!" look on her face. Total break state.)

Brings new meaning to the “Take away”!  This is so good, I can just see her
face now…but she deserved it for assuming.  I’m going to push this one step
further and buy two drinks for MYSELF next time I’m at a bar with an HB,
just for the fun of it.

Commenting on (Next I go into what I call my “Hitting On Me Connection
Pattern”.  This is pure gold. If there is 1 pattern you need to know, it's
this one!)

WELL?????

Commenting on (I was not next to mine in the cab, and by the time we got to
the hotel, she was NOT in that trance mode anymore, with not enough time to
re-engage.)

AHHH, the importance of anchoring.  You could have got her in trance mode
again by firing off anchors and/or asking questions that ‘force’ her to go
into trance.  Next time I see you, I’ll show you what a handshake interrupt
is!  Either way, I know it can be very difficult to F close such a young
girl who has a BF, and probably reservations about ‘cheating’.

I like to say, “I’m glad to hear that you don’t believe in cheating,
because I have to agree that I would never cheat myself out of my own
pleasure either!

Commenting on (She kept talking about sex, but stressing that she does not
sleep with men right away. She went to the extreme by saying "Tom, if you
think you are going to sleep with me tonight, I would definitely tell you
to forget it.")

The embedded command here is ‘sleep with me tonight’.  She ran a pattern on
YOU!  Aren’t chycks evil?  I can’t recall having ever failed after hearing
something like that.  I might say, “Who said anything about SLEEPING?!”

Commenting on (She told me that she was reluctant to meet with me a second
time because of my age (her 26; me 22)

Just say, “AWWW, poor baby!” or “I’m sensing a real EGO here.  Do you think
I date OLD BAGS or something?!  Shit, you could be my mommy!”

Or if you really want to knock her out on her ass, “You’re not talking
about age, but of MATURITY.  What’s your definition of maturity?”

She will probably stumble a little and try to find the right words to
describe it.  When she’s done with her description, you have the PERFECT
opportunity to give a much more sophisticated and ‘mature’ definition.

Just say, “Maturity is the balance between courage and consideration.  See,
you can have the courage to express your ideas and feelings to others, but
if it’s not BALANCED with a sincere consideration for the ideas and
feelings of others, then you are immature.  OR, you can be soooo
considerate for the feelings of others,  but not have enough of a backbone
to stand up to other people and really express yourself.  So to me, the key
to being truly mature is to be constantly striving for the balance between
being considerate AND courageous.”

This pattern will blow her away and should cause her to re-evaluate.  Try it!

Commenting on (She asked me if I was the type of guy to flirt a lot when I
get into a relationship)

“Well, there’s a difference between flirting, and seducing.  I flirt with
almost all women because it’s fun and it feels good.  And I encourage my
girlfriends to do the same.  And IF I were to be in a relationship with a
woman who is giving me everything I’ve always dreamed of, and who is
capable of letting me give HER everything that she’s always dreamed of, I
would definitely change.”

Commenting on (Follow your heart)

You seem to use this ‘command’ a lot, and your pattern (I didn’t re-post it
here because it’s so long) is extremely sophisticated and amazing.  It’s
definitely going into my bag of tricks, and I’m going to be sprinkling a

lot of “Follow your heart” into what I do from now on!  Keep it up, bro…

Commenting on (No name? No problem; I'll call you #1 and you #2 and you #3.
No immediate interest? Just tell them they are BORING. They WILL cheer up;
otherwise, eject as they are NOT worth knowing.)

I’ve just hit a new level of awareness of what I can do with this sort of
thing.  Thank you for putting it so bluntly.  I see visions dancing in my
mind of beautiful women APOLOGIZING to me and begging for one more chance
to prove that they are worthy….

Commenting on (What I didn't take into consideration is that I'm a
polarity responder. I finally started doing "negative affirmations" i.e.
telling myself I'm timid or suffer
"paralysis or analysis" or whatever. My natural contrariness set in and I
became determined
to prove my statements wrong. I have found this to be much more effective
in improving my weaknesses.)

If I were you, I'd pat myself on the fuckin' back for being flexible
like that!  It is a rare person indeed who can stop analyzing why
something isn't working and just utilize the processes that are
already in place.  Because analysis is paralysis.

In FrogsIntoPrinces, Bandler tells a story of a woman in one of his
seminars.  He was in the middle of explaining to the group that
"Every 'part' of every person, no matter how illogical, always serves
a positive function."  And the woman shouted,"That's the stupidest
thing I've ever heard! I have a part of me that everytime I go to do
something, tells me I can't and I'm gonna fail!"

So Bandler tranced her out and asked her unconscious why it was telling
her to fail all the time.  It said,"I was trying to motivate her!!"

So Bandler looks at the woman and goes,"I bet you'd never be able to
come up here and work on this in front of the group" :-)

Commenting on (I would say that from my personal experience men are
much more hung up on what a woman looks like and women are more
hung up on what they themselves look like.)

You could be right.  But I see alot of guys out there that are dating
ugly beasts.  But hey, let's face it...if I can't stand to look at you,
I won't FUCK YOU.  Because it's the old equity principle, and I believe
that if you are an 8, then you should date someone who's in the 7-9
range.  Otherwise people unconsciously restore the balance by being
unpleasant to the less-pretty person.  If you're a fat pig, you should,
in my opinion, date other fat pigs.  OK, sure...you COULD go after
a skinny model and get her, but unless you have something to balance
it out, such as money or an amazing personality....

Commenting on (I know plenty of women who date or are married to less
than attractive men.  You see it all the time,
especially in these movies where the old guy gets the young hot thing.)

I don't like the way you phrase it.  Try it my way!

"You see it all the time,
especially in these movies where the DUMB young hot thing gets the
sophisticated, mature, incredibly wise older guy, and he is actually
willing to overlook her flaws!"

Commenting on (How about asking your readers if they would date
a less than appealing woman with a terrific personality rather than a
gorgeous model that bored them to tears?)

You just assume that we are soooo bad, eh, Stephanie!  MAN!  Don't get me
wrong, I love it, you bitch!

Personally, I don't go for gorgeous model types.  Gorgeous women are
really fucked up because of it, and I quit the therapist act 6 years
ago.  Well actually, I still use the therapist act because I do
therapy, or what I call education.

Commenting on (If we go out together she
announces to anyone that will listen that I am in a committed relationship
and that I am going to marry my boyfriend, because she feels every guy meets
me and wants me.  Maybe compared to her that is true, but not because I am
prettier but rather because she is plain miserable to be around all the
time.)

And YOU haven't gotten rid of her because secretly you enjoy hanging
out with her because you get to feel superior!  It's not uncommon.
Because why else would you hang with her if she is constantly pissy and
sabotaging you?  You're prolly just another good-looking-big-titted-chyck
from California!

Commenting on ((Commenting on: STEPHANE - "Now this is the part where I
need to apologize to
anyone on this list that is religious. I'm sorry."):
NightLight9 responds: Talk about an ambiguity or what? :-)

Stephane responds:  I am glad somebody noticed, because I was totally
laughing my ass off as I wrote it!  For those of you that don't know what
ambiguous means...tough
luck!  Just kidding, it means that it can have more than one meaning.

Commenting on (I've got a question on a special situation; what extra
measures do guys on this list take when the girl you're working on
(Church pussy again, in this case) has only had sex with one man,
particularly if it's her last BF. For me it's a cold shutdown: I
assume she's probably still in love with him.  How do you guys
(especially your friend, Stephane) handle this?)

Assuming that she is still in love, or ever was, is an assumption that
I just refuse to make.  Also keep in mind that women LIE about how many
partners they've had.  Especially Church pussy!

It's hard for me to explain how I would handle this because I don't
know you or CP (Church pussy).  MY style is usually very direct.
If I want to know something, I usually just ask!  Because I like
to know right away who I am dealing with.  And I think that at this
point you should've already banged this CP or at least found out that
she is too much work.

Alot of guys tell me things like,"I've been sargin' this chyck, man!"

ME:"Oh yeah, when did you meet her?"

THEM:"About 12 months ago..."

Hehe...Get it?  I usually know in the first 3 minutes if she is
fuckable or not.  Because I have a very detailed criteria list and
right away I find out if she fits or not.  Because when guys spend
all this time worrying about one chyck for months and months they are
acting as if they're IMMORTAL.

Everytime I show someone my list of criteria they always have the same
response,"WOW! Steph, can I have a copy??"  If you guys want me to
post it, just ask.

Cliff's Comment:  Fork it over!

Stephane Commenting on (I'm wondering, how do some of you guys handle
flakiness from chicks? Lately, practically every girl that has agreed to
meet me for a coffee date has ended up not showing up. What's up with that?
It should be noted that all these girls are right around the ages of 19-21
so I assume that flakiness should be expected. I'm curious about how much
the flakiness has to do with me and how much it has to do with the fact
that young girls are generally pretty flaky. If anyone has experience in
dealing with younger chicks, your help would be appreciated.)

Flaking is to be expected from young chycks, especially if you frame
meeting her for
coffee as a DATE.  It is not a date!  You're going to be there already, and
if she wants to
show up that's ok too, as long as she behaves herself.  Because a DATE is
way too much pressure
for a dumb-ass 19 year-old to handle!

Try to get her to do something with you on the spot.

If a girl flakes, it has nothing to do with you, ever.  Because she doesn't
know you.  It's
either your approach that failed or her life is a mess or both.

Come up with a line that you can use to inoculate against being stood
up.  Try telling them
IF they want to come by the coffee shop, it's OK, and it's OK if they
don't.  Tell her you'll
be there ALREADY.  And if she doesn't seem enthusiastic and excited and
lucky that you even
ASKED, then get really cocky and tell her that it's ok if she decides to
show up, but not to
get any funny ideas, because you don't want anything serious right
now.  Use the same weapons
on them that they use on you.

Commenting on (Also, does anyone have any good responses for when chicks
say, "I don't give
out my #." I've heard that one a few times in the past couple of weeks and
haven't been able
to overcome it yet)

Don't ask for her number, ask for her email.  Use the 'Do you have email?'
technique, it's
so much better.  Because asking a girl for her number is what ALL guys do,
and is a trigger
for her to blow you off.

Anyways, if you're worried about what you could be doing wrong, ask a woman
friend to help
you.  Maybe you dress funny or have a nervous tick or something.  I know a
guy that wonders
why girls don't like him, and he has a very whiny tonality.  Since most
people don't HEAR
consciously, he had no idea.  Of course, when I pointed it out to him he
told me to mind
my own business!  He is the kind of sucker that listens to women who tell him
to just 'be himself'.  Now he is truly himself and all by himself.  He also
dresses like a freak
and believes in 'individuality' a little too much.  I told him that he
doesn't need to worry
about being unique because of his fingerprints, but he didn't think that
was funny.  And now
he gets to not laugh all by himself...

Commenting on (The_Asiatic said,"What do you boys think of all this?")

I think you did great, handled yourself extremely well.  You WILL nail this
girl.

What's 'folliculitis'?  I would do a little research on that!

Anyway, this girl definitely has a crappy opinion of herself and don't
expect that to change.
She sounds pretty high maint and is prolly the kind of girl that will throw
many guilt trips
your way.  Personally, I would have told her to call me when she gets some
self-esteem.  After
meeting with David, my attitude has really changed, and I am much more
direct and more willing
to walk away.  Actually, I enjoy rejecting women now and get a total kick
out of it.  It's not
that I hate women, I just don't have the patience to sit there convincing
them of anything.

I just had an interesting experience this morning with a chyck.  She called me
up, and this was approximately how it went:

ME: Hello?
HER: HI STEPH!
ME: Hey, what's up?
HER: What are you up to?
ME: I'm just helping a friend fix his computer.  He doesn't know what he's
doing, and it's
getting pretty frustrating...
HER: Well you can't expect everyone to be an expert! After all, YOU don't
know everything
about chemistry and physics and....
ME: (Getting really annoyed by her tone, etc)  You're annoying me now, call
me back when
you're in a good mood and not before! OK? Bye. (click!)

See, I have a rule.  I ONLY wanna talk to you if you're pleasant, and my
GF's know not to
pick fights or annoy me.  Life's too short.

So she sent me this email 2 minutes later:
Look, I'm sorry but I WAS in a good mood!  Now I just spent my last quarter
and I'm gonna
have to bum one off a stranger so I can call you back!
BYE,
Susie

As I was writing my reply, she called back 5 times. 5 bummed quarters from
5 strangers.  Here
was my reply:

When I met you, I told you right off the bat that I don't argue, and I
don't listen to
tonality that annoys me.  Yours did, so I hung up.  And I'm not answering
because I don't
wanna argue.  Now, we're supposed to get together tonight at 9:00.  So
please take all of
your anger and frustration and double it.  Hold onto it all day long, and
let it build.
Because the more it builds, the more you'll save that anger for where it's
appropriate:  IN THE BEDROOM.  Because you've been a BAD GIRL.  And you
know what I do to
bad girls!  See you at 9:00.
Stephane

This is a great way to diffuse anger! Works like a charm.  Here was her reply:
Steph, I HATE YOU!!! : )  See you at 9:00!  You bastard!  I had to bum like
20 quarters
and you didn't even answer the phone!  I'm gonna fuck your brains out
tonight you asshole!
Don't be late!
bye,
Susie

Now, let's analyze this, because this type of shit really seems to work on
women.
First, I felt annoyed by her tonality, told her, and hung up.  Isn't that a
little
harsh?

I don't think it is, because her tonality HONESTLY annoyed me.  I shouldn't
have to be subjected
to that, so I told her calmly how I felt and hung up.

Now, the first line in her email was designed to make me feel guilty.  So I
wrote her back
and told her my rule.  Then, instead of telling her to stop being angry
like most people do
when someone is angry, I told her to get ANGRIER!  This totally fries their
brain, and typically
they begin to cool down OR they amplify the anger like I told them
to.  That's ok,
because now I'm controlling it.  I'm prescribing the symptom, which is a
BriefTherapy technique.

Then I reframe anger from being a bad thing into a good thing, something we
can use to have
awesome sex.  Because everyone knows that anger and sex can be really
appetizing!  Plus,
I'll get to skip the 'beforeplay' and just fuck her brains out...

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