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Her arms around my neck without ever meeting her before
11/13/01 8:38:42 AM Eastern Standard Time
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Ross:
(Commenting on: "I was like a kid in a candy store... so many choices each
more appealing than the next."):
Hmmm...has it occurred to you that perhaps SOME of the very beautiful women
present ALSO had that thought? Only, in this case, the "candy" is attention
and adoration from men, without the HB's having to give much or ANY
recognition back. That, to THEM, that IS what "being a hottie" is all about.
(Commenting on: "I didn't want to be seen going from woman to woman and it
was so crowded and everyone was watching everyone."):
Everyone was watching everyone. Hmmmm....and what do you suppose they were
watching for? How does this play into status, perceived value, something
(receiving attention) in exchange for nothing (giving little or no
attention/recognition back) or at best, teasing?
(Commenting on: "I took an hour to be picky and scan the crowd
thoroughly... finally I picked this HB8 who looked like an African-American
version of Mary Ann from Gilligan's Island. Maybe an HB9. She was receptive
to my opener. I ran a bunch of arousal patterns... ending with the one
about taking a bath and she got visibly turned on. She accepted and
returned a ton of kino (it helped we had to get close to hear each other).
I asked her favorite food, which was Italian. I asked, "How wonderful would
it feel to picture you and I enjoying the best Italian you've ever eaten"
(which would have been even better if I were Italian... harrr). She said,
"It would probably feel very good... but, I'm seeing someone.""):
Then what is she doing there? Do you think perhaps she had some vague idea
of what she would receive at the club and what she was aiming at getting or
did she just go out with no idea in mind?
Why was she so receptive to your initial "opener" and other attention? Did
she show YOU any genuine interest in YOU? Ask any questions about you? Show
you ANY genuine warmth? Or was it all about the performance you could offer
to HER?
(Commenting on: "Walking over to him, this HB10 saw me, assumed I was going
to talk to her, and started radiating the negs, she even ran a few steps
away. I zipped past her and started talking with the guy, noting her
expression... kind of disappointed. She started inching closer to us and,
when the guy noticed, he said, "Hey, this beautiful young lady knows more
about the club than I do" and he stepped away. I started with some fluff
but it was going over like a lead pipe. I segued to humor and she just said
with a sneer, "I don't care to say anything to you.""):
Wow. I bet this was the FIRST time she had EVER spoken and acted so rudely
and dismissively to a man before in THAT environment IN HER ENTIRE LIFE!
Hmm....do we see a High School mentality operating? Everyone watching
everyone? Status and dominance being of utmost importance? People offering
performances with a hope of getting something ?
I think to a lot of these HB 10' s and such, the club scene is one big
theatre where they can play act and give the APPEARANCE of sexiness rather
than manifest the reality of being a sexy person. They can give the
APPEARANCE of being receptive, and indeed, maybe even really be responsive
to kino, etc., but they seldom feel any need to really BE friendly, warm,
inviting unless they perceive someone is of the proper degree of coolness,
is hip, in, whatever enough.
(Commenting on: "Well... I had a Ross J sleazoid comeback ready to fly, but
it was like 2 a.m. and I was getting tired, so I just joked "very nice
liquid nitrogen. May I have another?" This actually got a smile but she
forced it off her face, trying to keep her bee-yotch exterior. I bid her
adieu, "excuse me as I go and thaw myself out" and returned to the bar for
one final pass."):
The "bee-yotch" exterior IS PART OF THE FUN FOR THESE GIRLS IN THIS KIND OF
PLACE. It's part of the role that conveys the status. THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE
MOSTLY THERE FOR AND NOT TO GENUINELY CONNECT.
(Commenting on: "At this point a lot of people were leaving together and a
lot of guys were getting phone numbers, so I figured I'd go for broke.
There was a young HB7 around 19 or 20 who was hanging by the door. She was
eyeballing me and started primping, putting up her hair and cutting the
eye, so I went over and said, "looks beautiful... but I like it better
down." A bit of fluff talk but mid-way my batteries were like running down
near zero and I just didn't care anymore, so I gulped down the last of my
drink and departed.
General observations:
I noticed that the more beautiful the woman, the less receptive she was to
an approach. These typically ignored all approaches and hand-picked a guy."):
Because she has a license to do the choosing in this environment. It's that
power that is as much the fun as anything that results from the choice!
(Commenting on: "And, in most cases, they picked the guys who looked like
they stepped out of a low-rider. Us noids in the Armani and Cerruti suits
got ignored."):
That's probably the fashion preferred for guys in that club or that part of
town. She's picking what the other players of her status are perceived to like.
(Commenting on: "So I had to laugh... the night I should have been dressed
to the nines I wore leather. The night I would have done better in leather
I was in suit and tie.
I also noticed that the women who bared the most flesh were more
self-conscious about it. A couple dozen came in with their boobs pushed up
and out of their tops, yet they did the typical "offended" behavior if you
looked and did the drawing of attention (by touching or adjusting) if you
didn't look."):
What is the difference between someone who IS sexy and someone who can
manifest the IMITATION of sexy? It's all play-acting. It's THEATRE.
(Commenting on: "A) The importance of Planning. I knew before hand the kind
of situation I would be in, and that I would get my chances with the HB's.
But my overenthusiasm for dancing fucked me up so that later I didn't have
enough energy left for the crucial part."):
This is about controlling your intent and how much intent you put into any
one activity.
(Commenting on: "Prophet: Girls sit and listen and watch me wide-eyed when
I recite patterns. Thank you, Ross Jeffries for being a geek just like me!"):
Well, now that I have been doing Yoga and gotten the LASIK surgery on my
eyes so I don't need glasses, I am MUCH better looking...too good looking
to be a geek, but I'm still DEFINITELY a DORK!
(Commenting on: "Cliff's Comment: Here are some dating sites» that I got off
the site Askmen.com. Askmen.com is a pretty interesting site (Dr. Dennis
Neder, who gets these emails and who has commented here in the past, does a
regular article for them) and it originates here in Montreal. It is below
#400 in the most visited sites on the Internet (they've had something like
53 million page turns) and the average visitor spends about 123 minutes on
their site which is far above the competition, from what I understand.
The comments that follow the addresses are from the Askmen site, and are
not from me. They even rank the sites (note the "10/10" after Doc Love's
System):
Doc Love's System http://www.doclove.com/ The single man's best investment.
10/10"):
Ok..let's clear this Doc Love stuff up.
I know about Doc Love and his system. In fact, I know Doc Love. In fact, I
used to assist at his seminars back in 1984-1985.
His "system" is pretty primitive stuff that relies on keeping the girl
guessing and playing a pretty passive game of waiting to see how interested
she is in you. It WILL work...if she is already attracted to you somewhat,
it will build interest over time and over time it will help you avoid the
killing errors that could blow things.
But if she is NOT attracted, it will not help create that attraction.
And the worst thing is...IT'S MORE "DATING" STUFF. It all takes place in
the traditional "dating" framework.
I'd say it's of interest the same way an old IBM 360/91 mainframe is of
interest to a guy who builds/designs/runs Cray Super-computers...a
fascinating relic of a by-gone age.
Otherwise, forget it.
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Dr. Dennis Neder:
Thanks for the "honorable mention" in regards to askmen.com. askmen.com is
one of the best general information sites out there, and I recommend them
highly.
Kenny Wilson (of Dating Insider) and I are working on a new site that may
be of interest, "SinglesFAQ.com" that will be very much "askmen"-like and
I'll keep you posted on it's progress.
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Caco:
askmen.com has a good thing in Doc Love but the site has a scamster when it
comes to The Player (look for "Adventures in Sex"). He ass just rephrases
ASF shit out there calling it his own . emasculates it .. and comes up with
things like the players' three second rule
(http://www.askmen.com/love/player/48_love_games.html) and shit like neg
hits on (http://www.askmen.com/love/player/52_love_games.html) which is
about seducing a barmaid but has rings of Mystery's stripper rules. Either
the guy is Mystery himself .. or he's a scamster!! Check out Formhandle's
post on ASF about this dude.
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Mystery:
My website has changed to www.mysterymethod.com. It's also been updated.
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Magic Juan:
(Commenting on; "She replied in a nasal tone reminiscent of the
millionaire's wife on
Gilligan's Island, "You're a stranger, why should I speak to you?""):
With delighted surprise: You know, I often ask myself the same question before
speaking to an unfamiliar person. And I've come to realize that I never really
find out the answer to that question until after I speak to her. Sure, I could
end up wasting my time overall; if I find out she is the kind of cold person
who would dismiss someone out of hand -- even before giving herself a chance to
discover what kind of laughs she could have with a fresh, new acquaintance --
but then, if we don't even bother to try, we might never know what kind of
warm
(endearing, talented, whatever) person stands before us. (All with the
appropriate pointing.) And so, given your initial response to me, the
question I have to
ask you is: do you want another chance?
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Stephane:
(Commenting on: "Caco: [snip]I totally agree with your observation though it
does not apply to my case per se. First, here the problem was that I had
almost ALL my
relatives there"):
Who cares what they think. They are just jealous. Flirting and fucking is
your business, not theirs, just don't nail her right there on the dance floor.
(Commenting on: "Caco: [snip] I wanted to convey enough personality to her
ignoring the bf just focusing on what her DEEPEST desires were and linking
them to me besides delinking them from the bf ; )"):
WHO CARES about what she thinks! Want to know her deepest desires? She
wants a man who is funny, romantic, and strong. Want to 'link them to
you'? Guys always ask
me how to do this, and I could never understand why. Obviously they are
being waaaaayyyyy too
covert to begin with.
(Commenting on: "Caco: [snip] I portrayed myself there as the grinding dude
not someone unique.
I should have had a better game plan."):
Everyone on this planet has a different footprint. I still don't
understand why guys are
trying so hard to be unique. Because all I have to do is SHOW UP! You
guys are thinking too
much.
Cliff's Comment: Not everyone can be as unique as you, Stephane.
(Commenting on: "Caco:I just forgot all about the whole system of what to say
when."):
Again, you're too concerned with what everybody thinks. But if you say
what's on your mind
without filters you won't ever run out of shit to say, especially if you
put yourself in a powerful state before you go out, and maintain it.
(Commenting on: "Caco:I tried to get to know what is it that she wants and
then give it back
to her both verbally and non verbally."):
Who CARES what she wants? FORGET what she thinks! Do you honestly think
that an 18-22 year-old little girl knows what is good for
her?! PUH-LEEZE! Ross said something
that really stuck with me. The most powerful word you can use on a woman
is the word NO.
When you elicit her values, tell her no! Tell her she's close....but no
cigar! Then tell her
YOUR values. The one's I learned to say are Honesty, Trust, and Respect
(in that order).
Since I believe in them, I can persuade her.
The most important thing I have ever learned is to stop caring about what
other people think.
Do I ever put my foot in my mouth? You bet! But who cares, as long as I
am having fun and
learning. Learning this was easy, because in order to engage in the
activity of caring what
they think you have to do something inside your head. Caring what they
think is a verb, it's
a skill. The way I did it was I would stop and see myself through other
people's eyes. That
was the main thing that was responsible for 99% of my hesitation.
I was amazed to find out how often I did this, and how much it got in the
way of my PU game.
So I stopped.
(Commenting on: "MrT: I am having problems visualizing. I just can't seem
to do it. I close
my eyes and think of an object or place, at best I get a blurry distorted
picture"):
The first step is in realizing that you DO make clear images, just because
you can't see them
consciously doesn't mean shit. DREAMING is a nice example of that.
If you want to see clear, focused images, you need to add in the dimension
of feelings and
sound. For example, picture a blender in your mind. Now turn on the
blender and hear it
VVVVVVVVVVVV!! See? Now physically put your hands out and feel the
blender as it rumbles
and shakes like crazy.
Now, I'll bet that when you jerk off at night, this is what you do
naturally. Perhaps you
see a nice pretty face and a mouth licking your balls...and as she licks
your balls you can
begin to feel what it would feel like if a drop of her saliva were to slide
down your dick...
and you can hear her moaning with pleasure as she slowly sits on your
cock. Excuse me, I have
to go now....
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Matthew A.:
(Commenting on: "Kerry F.: (Commenting on: "Matthew A.: (Commenting on:
"THE UNKNOWN! (Not reviewed) HYPNO-TECH Here's another one which I think
has been reviewed here in the past but I haven't gone through the old
emails to check. "Do you Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic
Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And
Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out? http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/hypnotech"
I got the course ages ago with my buddy and I came to the conclusion that
it was just another spin-off of RJ's stuff. The main difference with Dr.
Mojo's stuff is that he described a number of number of Magick and Psychic
Seduction techniques."):
Same here. Although, Ross is moving more and more into Psychic Seduction.
But, in order to learn what he teaches you have to attend a PI seminar if
there is one this year. I've never been to one, but I know those who have,
and the word is IT ROCKS! Of course, Ross just put out a new video set for PI.
(Commenting on: "Now I tried out his techniques for about a week and a half
every day for approximately 15 minutes then I gave up after having no signs
of affect whatsoever. (Matthew, did you find those techniques powerful?)
Also his course never makes much mention of his "Simple, Two Minute
Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant
Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?""):
Yes, I used his techniques with success, but keep in mind, I have two years
experience with Magick. The lesson to learn: there is a lot more going on
than what he describes, and his techniques are universal (Remote Viewing
and "Stepping into the Person" which you can find on ES) except for a few
specifics. For example: I never thought before to give her worded thoughts.
Either that same night, or the night after (after I practiced the
technique), I went out to dinner with my father. Our waitress at the diner
was stacked. She had a great, healthy energy, and she had brains too. I
decided to step into her and give her the command, "You want me!." For the
rest of the night, she flirted with us and took the time to hold her end up
in conversations. When we left, I gave her a compliment on her energy, and
she "accidentally" grinded both breasts against me. Another example: I was
walking down the crowded street in Jersey City yesterday, and from the back
I spotted a girl with a nice ass and tiny figure (my personal taste). Mind
you, we were in a crowded sidewalk, and she was a block away. I focused my
energy on her with the same intent as the waitress, and the girl STOPPED,
and looked back, directly at me.
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Dan:
I run a website, www.playerware.com, that offers a software program called
Playerware, which I designed specifically for men who like to date and
interact with a large number of women. The program is essentially an
electronic chick organizer. It contains features such as contact
management, photo storage, an electronic journal, a sophisticated rating
and comparison system, date/interaction tracking, as well as other unique
features. Visit the site and you can get a 40 day free trial. Full
registration is currently only $15.
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Isaac:
(Commenting on: "Prophet:
Girls sit and listen and watch me wide-eyed when I recite patterns."):
Is that doggy dinner bowl or what?
(Commenting on: "Started Speed Seduction» about ten months ago, did the work
memorizing about 6 patterns and using the 3-second rule. With practice I
got calmer talking to HB's."):
No doubt constant work and practice will deliver the skills.
(Commenting on: "Finally, this summer, while on vacation at home in Canada,
I was walking into an ice-cream parlor on the beach with my two little
nieces and nephew."):
What better social proof than that you're trustworthy enough to be left to
handle three little happy kids in public.
(Commenting on: "A hot babe was sitting there on the picnic bench with her
girlfriends. When my small relatives and I left the parlor, the HB smiled
at me."):
I think some people would refer to that smile as an IOI ...obviously you
were in there before you said a word.
(Commenting on: "I said, "Hi", got a good response and said, "Has anyone
ever told you: you are a shining example of genetic and physiological
perfection?" Of course she laughed and I responded with, "I´m glad you
laughed because although you are truly stunning, I wanted to see the
personality behind the beauty..."):
Successful combination of humour with an indication to her that beauty
alone does not cut
it...she'll be ready to show more personality now...
(Comment> before I introduce myself. My name is Prophet." Then I did the
eyes pattern..."):
Here's where the preparation comes through. In conclusion: Prophet I don't
know what you look like..whether you're tall dark and handsome or just an
ordinary Joe, but it is clear that you've been able to combine what you
naturally are with the skills you've learnt when the perfect opportunity
arose. You inspire.
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Gregory Rasputin:
One thing I keep in mind while sarging: Say you see a sexy girl, and you
use that line of "Hey, do you have theatrical training......because you
have great posture", and she goes "Ah...ok". That's a great line, but when
will it NOT work? When the girl is immature. I'm sure that some of you here
sarge chicks who just finished high school a year or two ago. You can't
expect to charm them with a line like that. They're just not
mature/intelligent enough yet to appreciate that. This is when you have to
use that bratty sister frame. Maybe the numerous methods of seduction are
scrambled in your head, because so many people here focus on teasing, and
playing with the girl, and yet so many others here focus on how to be a
charming, charismatic sweetheart. I'd like to untangle the wires in your
head for those of you whose picture is blurry. For the more mature girls,
you don't really need to tease them. Usually you don't need to go beyond a
little bit of play fighting, and if you tease them too much, they might
start taking you seriously, and actually take offence. So for those girls
(the mature ones), use everything that Ross has to offer them + some good
intelligent conversation. Note how Ross treats his girls like adults, I
never once heard him go into the bratty sister frame. This is mostly
because he's screwing around with mature girls. Do you think that a 17-18
year old chick will understand half the shit he's spewing? She'll usually
go "huh", because 1) she doesn't care so much to experience the 'wonderful
connections' as she'd rather just have fun and 2) she hasn't been on this
Earth long enough to appreciate what's truly rare, so she cannot appreciate
you ; ). On Saturday I was in the car with 3 girls, and 3 guys. They were
all in the age range of 18-19, but at the end of the night I had the
hottest girls there (definitely a nine) on my lap, with her arms around my
neck without ever meeting her before, and I didn't use a single pattern, an
embedded command, or a time distortion. It was all just because I kept
making jokes. One thing I keep in mind, as soon as she began laughing at
my humor in general, I began making fun of her. She said "Let's go buy some
alcohol, so that I'll be in a more party-like mood", and I said "and then
you'll talk less too, right?" She showed us her boots (they were those
really long boots), and when she accidently hit me I said "Damn it, why do
you have to bring your work boots into the car?" (implying that she was a
hoe). You could never get away with something like that with a mature girl,
but this was exactly what this girl needed to hear.
Once I saw a cocky young girl sitting on the train, and I come up and say
"Hey, do you mind if I ask something of you?" She said "Sure", and I say
"Can I have your seat?" She was like "Wh..at?" So I say, "Well it's
already warm, and I'm kinda cold...would you really want to have me
freezing on your conscience?" This was just a cocky, humorous opener, that
I'd prefer not to use with the more mature ladies. With the older ladies I
do things like "Hi, I just noticed you from over there, and wanted to come
over to find out what you were like." Get it?
So, I guess that my point boils down to this: As soon as you can decide
what kind of girl you're dealing with, you should know whose material to
use. If she's a young, fun loving, immature girl, use Mystery's stuff (and
Sisonpyh's somewhat), but if she's well read, can carry on a very
intelligent conversation, and is more experienced, practice your SS.
Because really, can you see Mystery sitting at a coffee table for 2 hours,
discussing existentialism with a philosophy graduate (no offence to you at
all Mys, as I know you're very intelligent, but I'm saying that this isn't
the type of girl you'd go for), and can you see Ross in a nightclub
impressing the 20 year old ladies with his dance moves? (Again, no offence
to you Ross, I'm just saying you wouldn't care so much for that night life
us teenagers love so much ; ) ). You can't say that one system is better
then another, or that one is too simple, or that the other is too
complicated. You just have to know what kind of furniture you're making, to
know what tools you need to use. ; )
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Franky the Tux:
About 6 months ago I took up a martial art to learn self defense. A couple
of months earlier I had suffered an unprovoked attack. Up until that time I
had always relied on my situational awareness and ability to talk to
prevent a fight from beginning. I was not prepared for being blind sided.
Instead of just signing up for the first Karate or Kung Fu class that I
found I decided to make a study of the martial arts to see what the
differences were between them and which ones might be better suited for me.
What I found was that the martial arts could be divided into two main camps:
Hard styles, which featured kicks and strikes (Karate, Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do,
etc.); and soft styles, which featured joint locks and throws (Ju-Jitsu,
Aikido, Judo, etc.). A third camp would be weapons training (Kendo, Kobudo)
but I was only interested in the hand to hand arts. After some study I
decided to learn the Korean martial art of Hapkido, which is a
predominantly soft style art which also mixes in some of the kicks and
strikes of the other two main Korean styles, Tae Kwon Do and Tang Soo Do.
(Both Hapkido (Korean) and Aikido
(Japanese) were developed from Japanese Ju-Jitsu and all three have much in
common, one being that they attempt to use your opponents strength and
moves against him. If you have ever watched a Steven Seagal movie you have
seen Aikido in action.) One of the things I discovered is that in each of
the arts, sometimes shortly after it was founded, that various "schools"
developed usually from the teachings of "star pupils" which emphasize
different aspects of the art. An example of this was Bruce Lee who
practiced Kung Fu but developed his own unique system which is called Jeet
Kun Do. It is not unusual to see 2 or 3 schools of practice with even the
more obscure martial arts and with major ones such as Karate there could be
five or more. My instructor holds black belts in Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido,
and has also studied Judo, wrestling, and boxing. One evening he told me
about a series of events on TV called the ultimate fight or fighting. At
first the concepts seemed pretty brutal. There were very few rules. What my
instructor found compelling was that it pitted people of different fighting
styles against each other: Kick boxers, Judo practitioners, Karate, street
fighting, Ju-Jitsu - you name it. What was found was that when an opponent
was taken out of his normal method/environment of fighting (for example a
Karate fighter taken to the ground by a wrestler) he was out of his element
and didn't know what to do. He told me that eventually people who
participated in this started to cross train in other styles so that they
could compete better, and this has been good for the martial arts as a
whole. Now, it's not unusual to see techniques and styles bleed over from
one art to another.
So what does this have to do with seducing women? Glad you asked. It's
easy to see from this that no one style of fighting is perfect or the best.
Certain styles work better under certain circumstances. Recently I re-read
through Cliffs previous mailings going back thru last year. So the running
arguments of the past about SS, MM, Sis's techniques, the use of patterns,
etc., were fresh in my brain. What occurred to me was that these major
"styles" of PU were like the different styles of martial arts. Let's say
for the purpose of discussion that Ross's SS is like the hard style of
Karate or Tae Kwon Do. He uses the patterns to strike right at the
subconscious mind and desires of his "victim" (not really a victim, just
being congruent with the metaphor I am using). Sis's style is more soft
oriented using his "opponents" weakness (insecurity) and strength (desire
for control) against her. Mystery's could be likened to Ju-Jitsu's ground
grappling techniques, he goes for it in the high pressure, high distraction
club scene and demonstrates
social proof and alpha male» characteristics right in front of the target,
sometimes wrestling directly with her, sometimes ignoring or neg hitting
her until he's ready to make his move. (I've watched my instructor grapple
with students, often letting them have the upper hand for awhile,
conserving his strength and waiting for an opening to exploit while they
expend their energy.)
Even within the major PU arts there can be different "schools" of
approaches of
applying the technique. For example, Brother Riker's application of SS to
online personals.
The implications for newer students like myself is that while I may want to
master a certain style like SS I should try as much as possible to "cross
train" and at least learn the basics of the other styles. That would give
me the best chance of success, no matter what situation I find myself
in(cafe, party, club, etc.). That is why though Ross is my main "Sensei" I
pay close attention to what the other masters post here to learn as much as
I can about the other styles. Cliff floated the idea of pulling together
the various masters and students to discuss there techniques in Montreal.
We should all be enthusiastically supporting this idea. Can you imagine
attending an event with martial arts masters in the various disciplines
teaching you there favorite moves? You would probably feel you could kick
any non-practitioners ass if you had too. Now imagine doing the same thing
with seduction masters and star students. The HB's wouldn't stand a chance!
So Cliff if you are still interested in hosting such an event, count me in.
I will do whatever it takes to be there.
I'm glad that Ross, Sis, and Mystery are not masters of each others styles
as well as their own. They would be getting laid so much they wouldn't have
any time to contribute to this list!
Cliff's Comment: I am still thinking about it and hope to hold it next
summer. Stay tuned for more news, same Bat station, same Bat channel!
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
| cliff’s list advertisment section |
| Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are
just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links
to these emails. The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take
over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such
as proper mailing list software) for this list. If you were going to buy the product
anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going
at no extra cost to anyone. NON SEDUCTION-RELATED:
RECOMMENDED:
NOT REVIEWED YET:
|
| cliff’s free plugs section |
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all
recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back
here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up —
from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of
weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):
|
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