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Oh…you have friends?”
2/14/02 5:13:06 PM Eastern Standard Time
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Please note that David, who you have been reading a lot about here, is
available for in person and/or telephone consultations. He's had some
spectacular results, and you will be reading much more about this soon.
Please contact me for pricing and other details.
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Tristan:
I just want to write about my experiences with SS to help guys out there
who might be wondering about its real life value. There is as we all know
some debate about its effectiveness and I hope to give some hope to those
that are not doing well with women.
Briefly, before SS I was a guy with a typical story: decent looking, able
to befriend women very easily but rarely if ever able to get out of the
friend-therapist-buddy frame. After bombing with a
chick for the umpteenth time (I had followed the typical pattern of seeing
her, 'falling in love' with her and after 'declaring my undying love' to
her, got nailed with the LJBF), I entered a deep depression which I only
came out of after discovering SS. Now to keep this brief, let me just tell
you why SS works and why it works particularly well for me: here are the
principles of SS that made the most difference to me:
-get out of the dating frame. I had wasted too much time with the roses,
dinners and crap. I learned about the avoidance of triggering dating
mechanisms which easily lead to rejection.
-the clearly explained differences between men and women and how crucial
this is to seduction...
-the whole concept of seduction related themes and patterns during
conversation. Avoiding clear, direct, left brain conversations and
understanding the concept of ambiguity to create intrigue and fascination.
Believe it or not, I was such an AFC that I once sat and spent an hour
explaining the US Federal Reserve System to a chick I was sarging. Needless
to say it didn't get me laid.
-'Look first to see if a chick is treating you with the respect that you
deserve and ONLY THEN look at her other qualities.' This is by far one the
most powerful thing Ross has taught me. This literally eradicated YEARS of
idiotically pursuing women who kept flaking on me.
-The use of languaging to lead a woman's imagination and connect with that
special part of her mind.
It took me almost ten months of practicing in the field before my first SS
success. But I did succeed and continue to do so. In the last ten months or
so, I have closed 9 women. I know it's nothing compared to some of the PUAs
on this list, but bear in mind that before SS I had been many, many years
(so many I won't tell you because it's embarrassing!) without having sex
with a woman. So obviously, I'm happy. But SS has done more than just
increase my success
with women. One very unique aspect of SS is that it teaches you to tap into
the creative, artistic, and emotional side of your humanity. Because I am a
concert pianist, I have actually applied SS to my teaching and playing,
using languaging to describe musical ideas to students and audiences,
thereby elevating their enjoyment of music to a much higher level. Not only
that, but I have noticed that my conversations with all people in my life,
men and women, friends and family, have reached a much, much deeper level
than ever before. I know this sounds
hokey, but all that practice with developing themes, creating sensory rich
descriptions of things you take practically for granted, does something
very profound.
It really does sharpen your senses and deepens your connection to life in
general...(yeah yeah, reach for the Pepto Bismol, I know...;-)
I need to say one more thing about Ross particularly. He is without a doubt
one of the most influential people I have met in my life. He is incredibly
compassionate and I can never thank him enough for seeing my potential and
believing in me. I remember as if it were yesterday how he would encourage
me (before my first SS success) time and time again and tell me that I
would eventually reach my goal, even while I was struggling to break my
AFCness.
Another thing I really respect about Ross, is his open mindedness to other
approaches. On this list, he has just recently made a point to acknowledge
MM's strengths, while in Montreal he met with David. He makes a conscious
effort to meet other PUA's halfway (just read his latest exchange with Mark
B.) when debating them. This says alot about his character in my opinion...
In short, Ross has profoundly changed my life. Not a day goes by where I'm
not grateful for all he has done. I seriously encourage guys to approach SS
with an open mind, you'll be surprised at how much impact it can have on
you and all those around you...
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Mark B.:
On the big mouth theory. I agree with this. Looking back I find that many
times it's irrelevant what you talk about as long as you talk about
something and lot about it. I remember once I was on a first date with an
HB and we went to Fluid in Toronto. Above one of the bars is a large fish
tank. Not really having anything meaningful to talk about, we talked about the
meaninglessness of the life of the fish in the tank and how it related to
us. Near the end of the date, she said she wanted to see me again because
"she liked our conversations" and I boned her shortly after.
> One last thing to Mark B. I noticed from your last response to the group
(the one with all the "fucking" in it), that you seem to be tired of
letting women run the show so to speak, and you've had enough. After having
read that post, I realized you have been pretty frustrated lately. Take a
deep breath man, and relax. Do whatever it takes to have more control in
your life, especially control over your own perceptions and reactions to
those perceptions. I get the feeling you were very angry in that last
email, and you're tired of the results you've been getting lately.
Sometimes it takes a "fed up" feeling to really get the ball moving in a
new direction. But don't let it become more than it is. You're allowed and
expected to make bad choices, and learn from them. Now, don't go making a
bad choice by thinking that you have to go flying off the deep end of the
control thing. Friedrich Nietzsche once said (and I'm paraphrasing) 'People
often make the mistake of living in one extreme, and then attempt to
correct it by going to the other extreme.' It's like they bounce from one
end to the other never finding the contentment in the middle. It's like a
game of perpetual tic-tac-toe, where no one really wins.
MB: I know what you are saying about the extremity of compensating for your
lack of balance - either direction is insidious. I feel that though I have
somehow reverted back to the extreme of being too accommodating and nice
only to get it thrown right back in my face. I found that some women will
test you and if you fail the test, even on the most subtle levels, you
quickly start to lose your opportunity for sex, relationship, whatever. I
feel, though, that being somewhere on the right side of the control
continuum but not too far is probably optimal.
I got this quote from one of my best relationship advisors Anthony
Badalamenti of www.successways.com who also wrote How to Succeed with Women
- one of the best books I ever read on the topic. I am in regular contact
with him and he advises me on various topics
"The underlying principle is that nature works along the lines of health
begets/invites health and unhealth begets/invites unhealth. Also, our
nature is preformed to recognize a higher way in someone else and therefore
when you make a healthy demand of a female (or male) the other person's
response will begin with admiration of you and respect for you followed by
motivation
to deliver on the demand. The more women sense that you are well with
yourself even without her the faster they will come running to you. Note
that this presupposes a higher level of emotional health in you with
respect to love than in other women , including self love."
To me this was like getting shot of the most soothing drug ever. It has
taken me a long time to understand and realize this fact. My recent
troubles have led me to this point and I am sort of glad for the
frustration that I have had recently because it has pointed me in the right
direction with this whole thing. Now I see the light and will never allow
myself to slip again. Basically it comes down to making your points known
and standing up for your beliefs - as counter intuitive as that may be,
it's the truth that when you strike a good balance of self worth and
respect for others they cannot help but love, respect and admire you. My
whole lack of understanding this stemmed from my belief, I guess from
childhood that, I need to be a good little boy and very agreeable and
accommodating in order to get approval from my parents and if I was not then
I would get punished. So even in my adult life I went along trying to
please everyone around me at my own expense rather than doing what I want
and what made me happy. This is where my biggest frustrations lay in this
world as I went along thinking that the "better" I am the more
affection or the more love I will get from women and from people in
general. This would in turn result in me getting even less proper
treatment and cause me to try even harder to be a "good little boy" which
in turn lead to more abuse until I snapped like most recently. I remember
once my father was beating me for something I had done and hitting me
pretty hard. I suddenly froze, stopped crying and stiffened up. He got
scared, stopped what he was doing and never beat me like that again. Now I
see how insidious and vicious this cycle has been and now it has come to an
end. Asking for proper treatment is the right thing to do and setting the
standard for behaviour is the right thing to do and not taking and
challenging shit is the right thing to do. This raises your value as a
human being to others and they cannot help but respect and admire you for
that attitude when you present it. Funny how sometimes in times of your
deepest despair is the most shinning light. I believe that this is one of
the main keys to success with women
irrespective of looks, being able to elicit states, isolate the 3rd set or
hit her with a few good negs. Demanding proper behaviour and treatment and
not putting up with any sort of bullshit or ridiculous demands elevates you
in the eyes of the other individual, and in our case women.
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Magic Juan:
>CPowles: Yes, my new tactic, when I meet an HB I #closed is to call a
SECOND HB to meet us out, one who I don't desire as much.
Magic Juan: I'm not clear on how you are presenting this. Are you inviting
HB1 to come along with you and HB2 (I am guessing "no" since it seems you
call HB2 after you call HB1)? Are you inviting HB1 and then later calling
to say you invited HB2? Are you simply leaving it open enough that it is
clear that HB1 won't necessarily be the only person invited? Or are you
leaving it so open that it is likely that when you show up with HB1 and
HB2, one (or both) is surprised (granted, by her own assumption) that the
other one is there?
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Brian David Phillips, Ph.D. Assoc. Prof., English Dept., NCCU Taipei,
Taiwan (R.O.C.) (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypnoTranceWrightExchange;
http://phillips.personal.nccu.edu.tw/index.html;
http://phillips.personal.nccu.edu.tw/hypnosis/index.html;
http://phillips.personal.nccu.edu.tw/guidedimagery/index.html):
> Clifford (from private email): > Rapid Pussy Conferences? Where do I
find out more about that?
Brian David Phillips: I know it may look like a joke but it actually was
real. I have no idea if anyone is still running them but a fellow in Hong
Kong (David Lo) was doing small underground get-togethers which he called
RPC for small groups of young single men to practice seduction skills
(basic pickups rather than the current NLP-influenced stuff). They would
join the Chinese equivalent of what are now speed dating or rapid dating
meets in the US (not quite the same but similar) for groups of twenty-five
or so women and men and then their group would practice pickups, they also
had outings to the bar areas and would have assignments that progressed in
difficulty . . . so many phone numbers, Polaroids of girls kissing them,
tits on camera, underwear and the like - what would now be called wingmen
were there for confirmation of hits and to help run interference. It was a
very competitive group with points and demerits for various assignments or
failures. My understanding is that most of the original members have moved
on and I don't know any of those who are left if they are indeed still
doing this sort of thing . . . last I heard from any of them was back in
1993 or so.
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HitmanPT:
> Mystery: I think there's no real competition. GUYS are just REALLY UGLY
GIRLS to me. They must be BEFRIENDED in a group just like the UGs.
HitmanPT: IMO there's always competition but that doesn't imply that it'll
be a significant one. Even in a group there's always a guy that has his eye
on the girl you want, and may not be very happy with you being alone with
her; but that doesn't mean he can do anything about it.
> Mystery: Cafe's are like shooting fish in a barrel. It's so easy, but
you can only have so many fish in the barrel and THAT is the major
limitation. MM doesn't exploit one SPECIFIC NICHE on Earth. It's more ...
holistic. Get good in CLUBS and then have a skill set that can go ANYWHERE.
HitmanPT: A guy that's good at clubs can play it everywhere! And I believe
the same logic is used about the group theory: a guy that can successfully
approach groups must be good at approaching single girls.
>Mystery: "The only time you will be called selfish is when someone WANTS
something from you."
HitmanPT: Isn't that the case? : ) If I can't get it with a specific girl,
I'll PU another one. I'm the prize here, not them.
>MB: Then she said "Mark, guys are just too easy, I am losing interest in
men, I like a challenge and most if not all men kiss my ass and I hate
that." So I said to her with a big smile "Stop whining, we're leaving here
(pool hall) and we're going back to my place to fuck." She looked at me,
smiled, and I took her home and boned her brains out for 2 hours (she was
spotting near the end of her period but not enough for good old Indian red
war paint, damn : )
HitmanPT: Most guys think that the way to a girl's pants is by giving in
control, by doing her every wish when it's exactly the opposite. Most of
the girls eventually get sick of all that bullshit, of all that attention.
Would you like having a girl calling you every hour and always buying you
stuff? That's why being a jerk works, we're not like everyone else, we're
not putting her on a pedestal, and chicks love that. AlphaHot1 has an
excellent article about this, you can see at:
http://www.maximu.speed-seduction.com/st2.html
>DB: The movie is based on the real PUA life of a guy named Duncan North.
Yes, the ending is pure Hollywood...show how the PUA lifestyle is empty and
have Steve convert to be a buffoonish AFC that gives all the power to that
special girl . See how long that works!
HitmanPT: This is exactly how the media moulds people...Movies, music, TV
creates the AFC's. Any movie as some sort of love story, the guy always
supplicates! Most of the guys really think that giving the girl her every
wish will get them laid because that is what the media tells them. This
kind of mentality is everywhere even in the music we hear...really, just
listen to wheatus "Teenage Dirtbag" or 3 doors down "Loser"... I mean
c'mon...this is practically telling people that being a loser is good...by
being a loser you can get girls! You can get girls by being a loser.. if
you pay : ) Anyway...I continue hearing all types of music, and seeing good
movies...but I (and I believe all guys on this list) know that you can't
take examples from movies (of course there are exceptions, like James Bond
and such). In almost all movies, the guy that gets the girl supplicated in
some form.
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Benkind:
> MB wrote: So, if you want girls to stop being frigid, don't be frigid
yourself!
Benkind: Very good point! A few months ago I began to assume that every
woman that I met was a total freak. When I talked to them I would casually
say things like, "Well, it's different for women. Most women get curious
about other woman and try it out -- kiss your friend; make out a little bit
just to see what it's like. Then you either like it or you don't -- no big
deal. But guys don't do that. There is NO coming back from kissing your
boy! But all women do it and you have, too! Admit it!
in a totally non-judgmental way>" 9 times out of 10 the girl laughs and
starts with the stories! If they still insist that they haven't, pause a
beat and knowingly say, "But, you're curious about it...?" She will be.
I've had so many church girls tell me all of their secrets once I
laughingly let them know that I KNOW that they are freaks and it's okay!
Masturbation, anal sex, threesomes with a married couple -- I'm telling
you, it's the quiet ones! Just keep the conversation light and funny. Oh,
another technique to get her to open up is to assume the worst (the best?).
If you want her to admit that she's slept with a married man, suggest that
she slept with a married man AND his wife! She'll usually cop to the lesser
offense. Most women are frigid because they think they'll be judged --
create a safe place for them to explore their sexuality and you will be
like an oasis to them. It's why women like bad boys -- because bad boys
MAKE them (free them up) to do bad things.
> HitmanPT: If you let her control these apparently unimportant items
(like what to eat, drink, where to go dinner), you're doing what any other
guy does: you are giving her total control over you and satisfying her
every wishes (in other words, you're being an AFC). You must be "selfish"
(for lack of a better term), you must think about yourself! Do what you
want to do, when you want to do it. This is a true PUA!
Benkind: This makes sense but one of the things that I think doesn't get
talked about enough is that "letting" a woman make a bunch of choices ISN'T
NICE! You're not "letting" her make choices, you are "forcing" her to make
choices. Sometimes a woman will suggest something, but lots of times they
have no idea where they want to go or what they want to do. How is forcing
them to figure that out being selfish? It's being lazy! You're giving her a
job not a choice. And let's be clear --women don't wish to be in total
control! That's why they get angry when you "let" them do it. They don't
want to have to worry about the details MOST of the time.
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Joseph:
I would like to hear more about how you "change the subject" when a woman
asks you what you've been doing since she saw you. What specific language
do you use? I'm asking because the way I'm thinking about it, it would be
perfectly obvious that I changed the subject on purpose and she would
probably just ask again. What do you do when you change the subject and
then they ask again?
Clifford:
Typically I just do it (often as if I just thought of something and just
start talking, not like I am avoiding anything). Some women are definitely
insistent but you would be surprised that not all are. One of the things
you need to make clear is that while you believe in honesty, trust and
respect, it doesn't mean that you are going to answer every question that
is asked. You can just say, if they are pushing, I don't want to answer
that. And you can be honest - just tell them that from your experience the
number one way to become boring to a woman is by letting her know where you
are at all times, and the number two way is to answer all of her questions.
> Joseph: All this group theory stuff is really arbitrary. In clubs or
bars, you can approach the target and do handwriting analysis.
> Mystery: With regard to graphology, you can't do it on the target til
you befriend the group. IF you mean befriending the group WITH graphology,
then yes. BUT that is still a part of group theory.
> Joseph: Her girlfriends will beg you to do their's as well.
>Mystery: Yeah, but the routines one uses in the group are different than
those you use in isolation with the ONE.
> Joseph: Do her friends and you are fractionating as well as inspiring
competition. Also, some non-verbal rapport from Essential Skills
(www.essential-skills.com ) will help out with groups. I think all this
"performance" that Mystery uses for groups is totally unnecessary. Just get
a $15 Grapho Deck from www.myhandwriting.com and buy the $35 magical
rapport CD from Essential Skills and you won't need it at all. I don't.
> Mystery: Is it possible that what you think is good, isn't? That MAYBE
there is a person out there that would TOTALLY IMPRESS YOU? That he uses
something TRULY ADVANCED?
Joseph: No...I'm sure I could learn alot from you and others. My way of
doing it is to go for the target, and if her friend runs interference, then
charm the hell out of her friend, too. It seems that women don't want to be
left alone so they get nervous when their girlfriend is really connecting
with a guy. So if you continue to leave her out of the conversation, she
will cockblock. But if you give them both a good experience and include
them both, the UG will usually give you the "permission" you speak of, or
you can do a take away and the target will catch up with you later. My
strategy is simple and not altogether foolproof, I admit. But I'm not
worried about missing out on just one. It just seems kind of complicated
to me to be thinking about all these group theory strategies when your
intent could be on picking up on the desires and values of the ONE...it
seems alot easier to just talk to everyone and not think about who's first.
I mean you talked to SOMEONE before you talked to the first one in the
group. To me the whole bar is just one big group.
> Mystery: she will I suppose you don't think so, hence your minimizing
GROUP THEORY. The concept of using, say, graphology to befriend the group
is great. There ARE however, further distinctions in group theory like
using previous groups to parlay yourself into new groups (merging and
social proof tactics).
Joseph: Yes, I guess I think about it differently. It's all just one big
group. I am always talking to someone when I am in a club or bar, I just
don't think about what group they are in. Usually I am thinking about how
to get away from them in time to be in proximity of a target.
> There's also how you neg the target so you can then isolate with
permission and immediately get IOIs from her.
Joseph: I can see how this would work. I have had women use the exact same
strategy on me. I will be talking to the group and not paying much
attention to the One in particular, and she will begin trying to get
attention by rolling her eyes at something I'm saying or giving a sarcastic
snort. I don't use alot of negs but one I do use is, when she says
something about one of her friends I will say "Oh...you have friends?" If
she says something about another friend, I'll say "The same friend?" If she
says "No, another..." I'll say "Oh! You have two friends!"
> When, though, do you ever see a woman of great beauty sitting alone?
> Joseph: Uh...like...every day!!! They walk their dogs. They sit out on
the steps before class and read books. They go shopping alone. They have
lunch alone. They stop for ice cream alone. They go to the grocery store alone.
> Mystery: What city are you in? Are we mincing words with regards to what
we call HOT? Have you seen some of my GF pix?
Joseph: Maybe we are mincing words- I'm not saying I see 10s every day
alone. But I don't see 10s every time I go in a bar or club either.
By hot I mean 8 to 10 range. I see 10s once a month or so in Savannah. I
see 9s and 10s on a much more regular basis when I'm in Amsterdam or
Atlanta. Just about every day, and they are often alone. As I remember
Montreal had alot of 10s, too, but they seemed to walk in groups down St.
Catherine Street and it was the time of the Jazz Fest. In Savannah and
Atlanta it is probably more common to see HBs alone than in the big cities
of the North, I will admit.
In my experience, in the cities I frequent, let's say it is relatively rare
to see a 10, and she has an equal chance of being alone or with a group
when she is spotted.
> Joseph: The only place I can think of that they are usually not alone in
is in clubs and bars. But if you go to other places to meet chicks besides
clubs and bars, you will find them.
> Mystery: Have I mentioned to you that I DO approach outside clubs? And
that with the experience I have gained IN clubs, I can approach all these
like they were NOTHING? These outside approaches are called BONUS ROUNDS. A
4 set in a cafe is a turkey shoot. I mean from meet to close (or to finding
out if she is legitimately taken) is a very short time. The PROBLEM is that
these situations you speak of are rare. Why? Because I'm chasing 10's,
dude. Not the 'cute' little girl who walks her dog.
Joseph: Don't 10s walk their dogs too?
> Mystery: If I approach an 8.5 in a club, it's only PRACTICE cause I'm
bored waiting for the 10 to arrive.
Joseph: I can identify. I'm not bored though, just having fun honing my
skills.
> Mystery: I ALWAYS approach the best girl of the club - ask those who met
me live. If there is a 10 on the street, I'm there too. BUT! in a club, the
hottest girls are usually HIRED and THOSE are the ones I go for.
Joseph: OK, I am not working those kind of clubs. That really doesn't
happen much down here. Sometimes models throw parties in Atlanta.....I was
dating one of them and went to her pajama party theme at a dance club once.
But when these things happen, it is a specific theme and only once every
few months.
In Amsterdam, I was aware of women who were hired by the bars to lure dumb
Americans in, but I didn't see it as a challenge. I was just barely into
PUA then and I snubbed it off as an AFC trap. I went where the friendly
Dutch girls would be. I must admit that I am much better at bars than clubs
because I feel more comfortable in a bar. It's my kind of music and my kind
of atmosphere, and the women are more down to earth and less superficial.
I guess you are going for these girls, who are 10s and who also have big
bitch shields, because they are a challenge. I prefer not to think about a
bitch shield because it is easier for me to expect that the HB is a
friendly person. It's been so long since I have had a bad response from a
walk-up that I can't even remember when it was. I think it's because I have
cultivated a sincere and confident attitude that is devoid of lust. The
woman seems to know that being a bitch to me would be silly or immature or
something. Now I've done a lot more walk-ups in the south than in Europe or
up North, and people say the southern women are friendlier, but from my
limited experience, women seem to be friendly every where I go. I think
believing that might be helping to make it so.
> Clubs house hotter girls cause the FIND was done by management. I go
where the hotties are. I don't drive around looking for the dog walkers. If
they are there, great! But dude, this is so rare.
Joseph: It's not that rare if you know where to look. For instance, Jezebel
Magazine in Atlanta did a great thing for me when they took a poll of all
the area's top models to find out where they do their laundry, where they
like to have coffee, what time they like to do these things, what parks
they like best, etc.
I don't doubt your abilities, I just wonder if your group theory is really
necessary. It seems to me that your success rate might be just as high if
you didn't worry about it. I could be wrong. Sometimes natural PUA's do
better when they are wearing their favorite shirt, or if they have a girl
with them. But I have a suspicion that they are cheating themselves by
thinking negatively when they don't have these things.
I also was wondering if you approached girls at other places than clubs.
Now I know that you do. Clubs and bars were not as much of a challenge for
me as coffee shops when I started really working on being a PUA because I
am a musician and feel very much at home in a bar. I mean, it took some
balls for me to start walking up to women in book stores but I never had
any problem striking up conversations in bars. That's just me.
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weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):
|
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