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Obvious in retrospect, but diabolical!
3/27/02 9:09:16 AM Eastern Standard Time
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David Update:
The tapes are coming, so is the book. Hopefully both will be available
shortly. Keep watching this space.
Private in person or telephone consultations with David are available.
PLEASE NOTE: This David is not to be confused with David DeAngelo of
www.doubleyourdating.com (who has posted some great stuff here under the
name "Sisonpyh"), or David Shade (of www.davidshade.com).
David is particularly intuitive with regard to your specific individual
problems with certain women. You can get on the phone, answer his
questions on the situation, and he will give you very insightful advice on
how to succeed in your particular mission.
He's had some spectacular results, and you will be reading much more about
this soon.
More comments have come in from the seminar:
Prem:
Some more comments on David's seminar for the list.
Firstly, David is a really humourous guy and is awesome to listen to. He
primarily stressed the basics and showed me how the world of women looked
through his eyes. He does this with a lot of personal anecdotes, jokes,
stories and by emphasizing his RULES. The best part was when we took a
break and went out for lunch. Here's what happened:
We were walking in the lobby when a super hottie walked by, David just
looked at her and with a cool confidence said "Wow!" and she looked back
with a big smile. Then at the restaurant, he started flirting with the
waitress. Within 10 minutes of meeting her, he said to her "I would like to
take you home and make love to you" and her reply was "That would be very
nice!". Later on, David pointed to a group of 3 hotties that walked by and
explained to us what each of their dress style and body language» meant and
which one would be the most open to being approached.
David is in his fifties and not much of a looker. The waitress who was
ready to bed him was probably twenty years younger. This proves that
looks/age don't matter, all that matters is attitude and style.
Max:
Here are my thoughts about David.
It was my second time meeting David in the mini-seminar last Sunday. David
impresses me as a man who is uninhibited, direct and open about his
intentions. No BS, no hesitation and no desperation. During the
mini-seminar, we went out to a near by restaurant for a snack. A dynamic
and seemingly very well experienced waitress (Victoria) approached our
table, and David started flirting with her. From the beginning of his
interaction with her, David started reaching out and touching her on the
arm and hand, and then he put forward his intentions with " I want to make
a wild and passionate love to you", and she could not be more responsive.
Since then, he always brought the conversation with her back to his subject
of interest. When I commented to him about the ease with which he is doing
all that, he called her and asked: " Victoria, Let me ask you
something...... What do men need women for?" As much as Victoria enjoyed
her flirtation with David, I enjoyed learning from him. This man is full of
balls, and he knows what he is doing.
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Problems getting these emails? My problem in asking you about having
problems is that if you are you probably aren't seeing this question. But
I have been having a number of complaints lately that people aren't getting
the emails. I am working on a solution but for the time being I would like
everyone to know that unless you requested to be removed from the mailing
list, you are still on it. So if you aren't getting it (and somehow or
other are aware of this note to contact me if you are not getting it),
please get in touch with me and I will resend what you missed.
One guy who has been on the list for a long time wrote to say he hadn't
gotten it regularly for months - I think his problem is having an AOL
accounts which seems to sometimes delete emails that are too long or
something like that.
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Paul will be in San Francisco in April. If interested in going on the hunt
or meeting him while he's there, let me know.
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Jonathan Ashton:
Report on the Mystery Method» San Francisco Workshop, 7-9 March 2002 (3 of 3)
Day 3. In which our heroes give up their perilous quest in favor of the
easier fruits of homosexuality; the Man of Mystery displays immense powers of
social proof; four brides lure their unsuspecting friends into a bus ride to
pickup heaven; and our newly Victorian narrator writes his first page in the
textbook.
The third installation of our mystical adventure finds your unhumble narrator
with a bit of time to shop because it is 9 March 2002, a Saturday, and I don't
have to work today. Yay! I buy chewing gum, a cheap archaic-looking necklace
with a single disk-shaped stone glazed shiny green (for a purpose that will be
revealed later), and best of all, a Victorian-style ruffle shirt with a lacy
fake jabot attached to the front. (Polyester, alas, but I can have a cotton
one tailored later.) I gel and blow-dry my hair to make it big. Why should
only parts of me be big?
Riding BART downtown, I sarge a woman sitting next to me with "Do you think
things happen for a reason?" It was a stark reminder of how much _easier_ it
is to sarge outside of clubs; she could've written her second Master's thesis
out of her responses in the ensuing conversation. She unwittingly gave me my
most-used new opener for the evening: "Do you think that people fall in love
because they're _alike_, so they feel rapport and understanding for each
other...or do you think that you look into this other person [gesturing back
and forth between us NLP-style] and see something in them that you _wish_ you
could be [women usually start their answers right here], and love them for how
they complement you?" For any woman who says "Both," my response is to ask
her about the last man she was in love with and the reasons she loved him, and
try to fit those reasons into one of the two categories...until I spot a
better conversational tangent and run with that.
From this and other conversations, I learn during the workshop that a routine
is like a seed on which all kinds of ideas will crystallize if you just bathe
it in women. Tell the same routine twenty times, listen carefully, and the
women will improve your material and give you ideas for new routines.
On to the show. Today we have a special treat. SF has a company named "Three
Babes and a Bus" that does club tours. (My suggestion; finally I get a
suggestion right!) The tour starts at Ruby Skye (one of SF's most upscale
clubs), moves on to two or three other clubs (which vary), then on to Polly
Esther's and back to Ruby Skye.
And guess who gets to share a bus with the eight proud men of the Mystery
Method» seduction team? Four bachelorette parties! Damn, do women deserve
this much good luck?
At the club, my ruffle shirt/black suit/big hair/necklace look is a hit with
the other guys. Stallion surprises me by telling me he's finally going to do
approaches today. I'm not sure if it's peer pressure, watching the last day
of his $$$ dwindling away, or something else, but he follows through. Yay
Stallion!
My new "why people fall in love" opener is very a propos in a room with four
bridal veils walking around, and I get two more approaches under my belt
before Mystery arrives. Ruby Skye is a sumptuous club; my one complaint is
that the main floor is so dark I can't tell if I'm opening the same woman
twice.
The eight Mystery Men go upstairs to the cigar lounge, which is quiet and
well-lit, to make plans. Chris explains the deal: instead of hitting the
bachelorettes early, we shall befriend them and use them as social proof in
the clubs--have them walk in on our arms. Brilliant! If we want to close
one, put it off until the last club or two. And to put them really at
ease...we'll all start off pretending to be gay.
We also decide that Wolf is the "bride" in our bachelor party--he'll be having
a commitment ceremony with his man next week. Stallion, who arrived with a
kiss lipsticked on his cheek for social proof, is the token hetero just so we
have a straight guy to make fun of.
Back downstairs, I think I weird out one woman completely when I start talking
about how cute Stallion is...in his presence. It's worth it just to watch
Stallion stammer, though.
I walk back to the lobby and find a wedding group looking for three guys ready
and willing to sing "You've Lost That Loving Feeling" to the bride--it's an
item on the checklist for her bridal scavenger hunt. Stallion, me, and some
strange guy serenade her. I ham it up as much as possible; there's a picture
on my camera (if it turns out) of me grasping the bride's legs and looking up
at her with pleading eyes.
Before I'm back on my feet, Stallion has turned _me_ into the guy having a
commitment ceremony next week, and I'm answering some hottie's long series of
questions about my relationship. Since I'm already so steeped in bullshit, I
pull out my bag of runes and try runecasting her, even though I know nothing
about runecasting. She completely disagrees with my made-up prognostication,
though that doesn't seem to hurt the rapport much. My cold reading skills
must suck. What fun!
Onto the bus. I sit down next to a random bearer of babeliness, run my
opener, talk about the items on her scavenger hunt form. Enter Club Calliente
with my arm around a woman, don't remember who. The club is excellent because
its wide open floor plan makes access easy, there are several quiet spots with
seating, and no part of the club is too loud for conversation.
The "Loving Feeling" bride and a friend are standing near the bar, and the
friend is looking for someone to buy the bride a drink as part of her
scavenger hunt. Three of us Mystery Men are there "not supplicating". I tell
the bride I'll buy her a drink if she buys me two. I think the poor dear is a
bit overnegged by the experience, especially since she's not a hottie, but
I hear later from one of her party that she eventually found her sucker.
I sarge a lovely Asian girl, DragonBabe. After "why people fall in love",
I do my scavenger hunt routine, in which Stallion and I once participated in
an over-the-top scavenger hunt. I don't include the routine here because
although it's funny and casts me in a gutsy light, it's not at all
interactive. I only try it twice during the workshop. The first time was
Day 2, and the woman politely dismissed herself right after I finished,
probably because I was talking too much. I try it again today because several
bridal scavenger hunts are going on right now, and DragonBabe responds notably
better. Stallion himself is standing beside us and throws in a few bits
(which thankfully fit my prefab story).
At this point, Chris whispers in my ear, "Mystery says you should lead her
somewhere by the hand to show her something." Fantastic advice, but at about
the same time, DragonBabe dismisses herself to order a drink at the bar behind
her. I don't want to hover nor start a routine that will be interrupted by
the bartender, so I flit away momentarily. As soon as she gets her drink,
Mystery moved in!
So I turn and tease one of the girls for not socializing with one of the
_other_ bridal parties enough. She replies that I should scold the other
party too, so I say I'll do just that, walk straight across the club, and
reopen a bride and friend with hair colored neon red. Somehow I get the bride
to make a gift of her pen to me, just for practice. RedGirl likes my next
routine, so I follow Mystery's advice with her instead, take her by the hand
and lead her to a table, and perform some routine I've forgotten. I don't
feel like closing RedGirl, though, so I let the conversation ebb and we part.
Back across the room to DragonBabe, who is now talking with Cobra. Mystery
tells me he didn't go anywhere with her; the field is still open. But what
about Cobra?
"Well, you could cockblock him," says Mystery.
Woah! What a thought! Should I do that to him? Could I do that to him?
"It wouldn't be nice. But...so what?"
How would I do that?
"Tell him Mystery wants to talk to him."
Diabolical! Obvious in retrospect, but diabolical! The moral debate rages
within. For almost four seconds. Mystery laughs as I decide to embrace evil.
With Cobra dispatched, I run the Four Magic Questions on DragonBabe while
kinoing her back. (Her animal is the dragon, hence the name.) Somewhere
along the line she mentions a boyfriend. Later I go for the close anyway:
"It would be fun to continue this conversation. How can we talk again?"
I get an email address. She explains that she can't get personal email at
work, so it has to be this account that she only reads once a month. I eject
politely.
I talk about it with Chris. He thinks I should resarge her later; sometimes
being willing to approach again will win a woman over. He also decides to run
his favorite boyfriend destroyer on her. So he strides up to DragonBabe, says
a few words of transitional chit-chat, pulls me around to the side, and
begins.
"I'm gonna ask you some questions, and I don't want you to answer with words.
I want you to answer with your hand. I'm gonna ask you about some things like
your job. If something is close to your heart, hold your hand close to your
heart. If it's far away, hold your hand far away. If it's in between, hold
your hand there.
"Now, how close is your job to your heart?
"Think about something you're really passionate about, like a hobby. Do you
have it? How close is that to your heart?
"How close is your boyfriend to your heart?
"How close is your family to your heart?
"Now, if I was to offer you another job that was right there [he moves her
hand near her face, closer than her original job], would you take it?"
She answers yes.
"And if a some guy came along [Chris is waving his hands toward me] who was
right there [he moves her hand so it's touching her nose], would you take
him?"
Yes.
I don't hear a word of this because of the music; I just see Chris gesturing
away from me then toward me, so I know he's doing something NLPish. He tells
me the script later.
Back to the bus. I open the woman in the seat in front of mine and walk into
the Glas Kat with her. I don't like this club because I can't figure out how
to work its layout. The parts that would be best for sarging are too loud.
The tables behind the dance floor are watching the male strip show. The
quieter catacombs are devoid of targets I can figure out how to work.
I manage a few unsatisfying approaches, then frustratedly go hang out in the
bathroom to regroup.
There, finally, a light goes on. My sarges aren't igniting because I'm not
doing role reversal--no negs, no teases, no ballbusting. I know role reversal
well in theory, but find it hard to integrate into my behavior because it
requires reflexes to be built. You have to wait for (or design) a behavior
you can misinterpret, then respond _fast_ with a take-away. I pull my cheat
sheet (full of openers, negs, questions, etc.) out of my pocket, read through
the role reversal (aka "stealing her frame") list, and resolve to use "Did you
just rub my ass?" on the next woman I talk to, even if I have to open with it.
As chance would have it, the first accessible target when I leave the restroom
is DragonBabe! And better yet, she's bobbing to the music away from the dance
floor! So I imitate her wiggle and bump hips with her a few times.
Indignantly I say, "Did you just rub my ass?"
She smiles big and answers, "I thought you just rubbed mine!" Houston, we
have ignition!
I pretend she gave the opposite response. "I _knew_ you rubbed my ass! I'm
not just a piece of meat, you know! I'm a human being! [Slowly:] With
_Feelings_! [Pause.] And _Dignity_!" [Thank you Grand Master and Sisonpyh
for the general idea.] Now I have her laughing. A little more banter, then
she goes to talk to a friend, but "I'll be right back." A good sign? I'll
probably never know, because I didn't chat with her again that night. Just to
experiment, I'll send her email offering to meet her "if you think you can
keep your hands off my ass this time."
I don't wait around. I get up on stage with a bridal party I already know
well and get them going around in circles by linking and unlinking arms (maybe
generating a little social proof?), then jump off the stage to sarge more.
Back on the bus, it takes three tries to find an empty seat that's next to a
woman and not "taken", but persistence pays off. Back to my opener, and
I walk into Polly Esther's with target squarely in my arm. But she's my best
sarge of the weekend, so I'll save her for last.
Meanwhile, Chris is working a cutie further back in the bus. Mystery
demonstrates proper wingmanship by pulling out his digicam and saying, "Hey,
I'm gonna take a picture of you guys. Okay, yeah that's cool; be more sexy,
closer...okay, now Kiss!" and Chris and cutie share a tonguedown.
Polly Esther's is much nicer to sarge in than the Glas Kat. Of my Polly
Esther sarges, the most interesting is a woman who is really taken by my
opener, talks a lot about how sexual she is, and holds my hand against her
breast momentarily less than three minutes into the sarge. (I credit this in
part to the Cologne Opener, which gets immediate kino and leaves my hand
positioned where she can comfortably pull it against her breast during "why
people fall in love".) Somehow I'm not attracted enough to try to close,
though. Of course, I should have tried a kiss close for practice. She tells
me I'm one in a million. I don't have the heart to tell her that I'm really
eight in a million.
One floor down, Chris tells me that Cougar kiss closed my target, DragonBabe!
No big deal, I suppose. But later it turns out to be a case of mistaken
identity--Cougar really kiss closed the _other_ Asian girl in black on the
bus. (Asian girl wearing all black? How original.)
Then I watch Mystery give the most amazing demonstration of social proof I've
ever seen. He lines up three of the bachelorettes in a row in front of him.
He sticks out his arms directly in front of him, with his hands joined
together and thumbs pointing down to demonstrate; then he grabs the women's
hands where necessary to get their arms into the same position. A circle of
observers (including several helpful Mystery Men) begins to form around them.
After a dramatic pause, he slowly turns his hands, still interlocked, so his
thumbs are pointing up. The women try to imitate, but can't! They look so
goofy trying to twist their hands further than their hands will go. Then
Mystery removes a packet of cigarette papers from his pocket, slowly pulls out
one paper, and lights it afire. It burns right up in his hand and with a
flick of his wrist, it turns into a lit cigarette, from which he takes a drag.
Mystery has demonstrated these routines for us before; what's new and stunning
is the commanding way he uses them to social proof half the room. The stunt
gets huge attention. The body language» is fascinating to watch. One
oblivious guy blunders right up to the invisible circle, and it looks like
he's going to walk right through it amid Mystery's performance until he
reaches the periphery. He finally registers Mystery's stance, the girls, and
the gaping onlookers, and he stops instantly as if he's just run into an
invisible wall.
And guess where all of this takes place?
That's right. Directly in front of his HB9 target, an employee selling beer
from a podium behind the hapless arm-twisting bachelorettes. Shortly
thereafter, Mystery number closes her effortlessly.
Damn.
Let's go back in time now, to the bus ride from the Glas Kat to Polly
Esther's, and the moment where your unhumble narrator, Jonathan Ashton, opens
ComicBabe with "why people fall in love". This leads to my learning that
she's recently ended a relationship, and one of her friends (in the seat
behind us) "closed her" with a guy they met in the last club. It also leads
her to tell me that she's dated a lot of happy guys in the past, and that it
was a bit of an obstacle because she gets depressed sometimes and they can't
relate.
Thanks to DragonBabe, my reflexes are up. It's ballbusting time!
"Well, you know, I'm a really happy guy myself. I'm happy pretty much all the
time," I say. "So it's a real relief to know that my tender boyflesh is safe
from your hot lusting hands." ComicBabe laughs big!
I turn my head sideways to her, then brush imaginary sweat from my forehead in
an exaggerated silent "Whew!" gesture. Bigger laugh!
A little more talking and teasing about her "manhandling" me (despite the fact
that I've been laying light touches on her almost since the moment I met her),
then I tell she looks like a comic superhero, with the gently curved lines of
her face. Turns out she's into fantasy comics; we talk about that a bit.
I ask her what her superpower would be. "I've been asked this question
before." What? Damn, so much for my originality.
"I'd be psychic. How about you?"
"I'd have x-ray vision--but not for the reason you're thinking!" I reply.
"Then why?"
I raise my finger and do an exaggerated comic pause with my mouth slightly
ajar. Finally, "Okay, okay, it's for the reason you're thinking." Big laugh.
I think she's very closeable now, but perhaps not in front of her friends.
(Mystery tells me the solution when we're in the next club: ask her friends
in the seat behind us, "I like your friend. Are you all right with that?" Of
course they'll say "yes", and then you can close. The more I think about it,
the more situations I can imagine using this in. You're brilliant, Mystery.)
At Polly Esther's, I get off the bus before ComicBabe without looking back,
but when she disembarks I put my arm around her. It's raining lightly and her
arms are folded tightly in front of her. I ask if she's cold; yes, so I put
my arm further around her and tighter. (Damn, I should have busted on her for
being so scantily clad--next time.) She teases that now I'm the groping one,
but I assure her that I am merely consecrating her for the Lord. I look her
right in the eyes and say, "I _love_ you."
"...In _God's_ way!"
I want to isolate her for a close as soon as we enter, but I mess up and lose
her digging out my ID for the bouncer. Before I know it, she and her friends
are upstairs dancing on the podium in the middle of the dance floor, separated
from me by a crush of human flesh.
Lesson: keep your ID where you only need one hand to grasp it!
I don't see ComicBabe again until back on the bus, where she's sitting next to
a friend. I should have asked her friend if I could borrow ComicBabe, but
instead I chat with another woman until the bus arrives back at Ruby Skye.
Happily, ComicBabe left her bag on her old seat and seems to have forgotten
about it. It's full of miniature chocolate bars. I get off the bus first,
tapping ComicBabe on the shoulder as I pass her seat. She says, "Nice meeting
you--", but I cut her off with "I'd like to speak with you outside alone for
a minute." [Thank you Mystery for that line.]
Outside, first I show her her bag, and ask if I can have a chocolate bar in
return for all her "manhandling". Sure. "I enjoyed talking with you, and it
would be fun to continue our conversation. How can we talk again?" She
replies that she can take my number.
"I could give you my number, but later I think you'll be too nervous to call
me." [My line. This is like a role-reversed version of the very bad
rejoinder "You're not going to call me." The latter implies that she's not
going to call you because of a flaw in _you_, whereas the former implies that
she's not going to call you because of a flaw in _her_--she's too excited by
you!]
She immediately agrees and says she is pretty "shy".
"So why don't you give me your number," I say. The rain smudges a few strands
of her number even as she writes it on my pad.
With ComicBabe's digits safely in my pocket, I unleash a beautiful routine
that Mystery taught us on Day 1. I ask her, "Are you trustworthy? Can
I trust you?"
"Yes, I think so," she replies.
I take off the necklace I bought earlier today and put it around her neck.
"I'm lending you my necklace. Promise that you'll return it to me next time
we meet, okay?"
Bottom line: I know the close could have come sooner, and I know a better
seducer could have kiss closed. But as number closes go, it was completely by
the book. Every single thing I said or did to her was for an identifiable
purpose, and I can cite the page numbers in the textbook to back up all of it.
I feel like a figure skater after a perfect...routine!
ComicBabe and her friends have barely left for their cars to go home when,
just around the corner from where I closed ComicBabe, RedGirl stands between
two of her friends asking me, "Why did you ask me all those questions
earlier?" It is _so_ obvious that she wants me to close her. I demur.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Kitty corner from Ruby Skye, the eight Mystery Men break the night down at a
24-hour diner. We're squeezed tightly together in a four-person booth until
another group abandons the only eight-person table in the diner, which
thankfully happens before our food arrives.
Now, a lot of people think it's better to sarge alone than with wings, because
having wings nearby creates too great a temptation to hover near them instead
of approaching. But this workshop convinced me that it's better to have a
wing--one who is disciplined enough to sarge apart from you (except perhaps to
help disarm the occasional obstacle). Why? Because it's so damn rewarding to
break it down afterwards! Having people to observe you, cheer you on, compete
with you, and help you iron out wrinkles in your technique makes the whole
experience twice as fun. Your stories are the second payoff for your
boldness, even if you fucked up at the time. Throughout the third night's
breakdown, we're laughing like Satan at a nun roast. I haven't laughed this
hard with a group of guys in twelve years.
Cobra tells us that he ejected from some of his sets with "I think I'm talking
to the wrong people." The man's got testicles of titanium!
Mystery tells us how he sometimes responds to a snub: he pawns two other
women, walks past the brat, and tells his women, "When we walk by that girl...
laugh."
I tell the group my cologne opener (P.S. Lolita Lempicka beat Chrome today),
and Chris suggests a follow-up: "This one's chloroform, this one's hemlock."
Cobra brings up the lint-palming neg--where you hide a piece of lint in your
hand then pretend to pick it off her clothing. Chris says he hands her the
piece of lint and expects her to take it. If she refuses, he sticks it back
on her clothing.
I ask the group what they think about the two women I could have closed but
didn't because they didn't attract me enough. Besides pointing out the
obvious fact that more practice is better than less, Mystery says, "10s take
numbers all the time and throw them away. You're a 10. Act like one."
Cougar walks across the diner and sarges a hottie waitress. We sit back in
our corner and discuss her body language» as she relaxes her stance and
uncrosses her arms several minutes into the sarge. He goes back again later
and gets her number on the second pass.
The guys encourage me to play up the Gothic costume to the max. I can't wait
to try the Black Nails Opener myself.
I ask for a good way to handle women who get sexual fast, like the woman at
Polly Esther's who I probably could have closed. Mystery answers, "You talk
a lot. Would you like to kiss me?"
Then it hits him--this is his _true_ kiss close! He didn't realize it until
now, but he almost always prefaces his famous kiss close with "You talk a
lot." Of course, it's ideal for situations like the one I was in, where she's
talking about getting physical. It challenges her to walk her talk, without
being hostile about it.
I find out that Myst and Chris both carry "cheat sheets", just like I do.
Mystery shows us his runecasting routine. It's absolutely awesome, but
I can't repeat it here. I think it'll be available for lounge members. (See
the website http://www.cliffslist.com/ to learn how
to join Mystery's Lounge.)
We go around the table and recount everyone's night. Cougar got the only kiss
close among the students, as far as I know. Cobra mentions that he got
snubbed occasionally--girls would turn away during his opener, or interrupt to
tell him they weren't interested. I'm shocked by this, because I didn't get
a single snub like that all weekend. Chris and Myst think it's because my
Gothic look works so well, but I'm not so sure. My respect for Cobra is even
higher now--the man persists through adversity unknown to me.
Everyone seems satisfied with the workshop, though I'm sure Grizzly and
Stallion wish they'd approached more.
I'm the last to recount my evening. (Chris makes a perpetual joke out of
interrupting me every time I start.) When I recount my ComicBabe sarge, Myst
and Chris busily write down my "boyflesh/hot hands" and my "I know you want to
see me again, but you'll be too nervous to call me" lines. How rewarding to
be able to teach the Master something. Mystery thinks about it and improvises
a lovely long version of the "too nervous" rebuttal that I wish I could
remember. When I point out my missing necklace, Myst and Chris shake my
hands.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Am I happy with my performance? Well, I'm disappointed that I didn't manage a
kiss close. (Congrats, Cougar!) My own fault, I suppose, for not making the
attempt despite a solid opportunity. But I'm pleased with my four closes, two
of which might go further, and the two other closes I could have had but
didn't bother to take. I do wish I had practiced closing the sexual girl.
(I also wish I'd known Mystery's "complete kiss close" then, because I could
have done it click-whirr instead of having to think about how to close. My
not knowing it is no excuse, though.)
On the plus side, I made the "quota" on Day 3--twelve approaches in one night.
It's not as hard as some people think; there would have been time to do 24 if
I didn't still need regrouping time between approaches to get the lines back
in my head. I got role reversal to kick in on Day 3, and it sent sparks
flying both times. [Thanks again Sisonpyh, Grand Master, Nathan Szilard,
Mystery!] The barriers to approaching are lower--I know that walking up to
almost anyone anywhere and asking "Do you think spells work?" or "Do you think
everything happens for a reason?" will work, so long as I remember the
follow-up routines to prevent a conversational stall.
And I'll never forget my first textbook close.
The best part, though, is that I know now that I _am_ going to be a PUA.
There are no barriers left now except practice. Thanks to my 60-hour-a-week
job, it might take a few years to build my proficiency to PUA level, but
I _will_ make it. I know what skills I need to master next. Determination is
all I need now, and I've always had that.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Am I happy with the workshop? Damn yes! It's the most fun thing I've done in
twelve years that didn't involve actually having sex. (I have my primary for
that, though, and I can pursue other outlets at a relaxed pace.)
I can't speak for the other students, but Mystery came through on the promises
that counted for me, and got me half-way up to speed on the Mystery Method».
The openers and routines work well, as do the extraction methods and number
closes. (There was Sex Magic too, though thankfully not as much as his Web
site says, as I want to develop my verbal game first.)
Good, interactive, practiced routines really really work. That's why Maniac
High, Toecutter, RJ, and Mystery put them at the center of their games. And
yes, flexibility is important, but you have to learn a few good tunes before
you can learn how to improvise. Thankfully, a newbie student with a little
chutzpah can make the routines start to work on day one. And yes it's true,
women _love_ to talk about relationships and the unknown. They crave it and
they're not getting it from other men. They told me so.
Many of Mystery's routines have to be seen live. In some of them, intonation
and body language» make such a huge difference. The "Pull My Finger" neg makes
a lot more sense now that I've seen the arm movements Mystery uses. Same for
the Black Nails Opener and the Elvis Opener.
Chris' presence is a big, big plus: twice as much advice is available, twice
as much critique. He may not be as advanced as Mystery, but he's far enough
along for our needs, and he's just as much fun.
Three days isn't long enough to learn skills like pawning, of course. I need
lots of individual practice to get to the level of consistency where pawning
becomes possible. And I haven't yet gotten the sequence "approach obstacles,
neg target, extract target" to work, but I have a better understanding of why.
I have a few suggestions for improvement. (Myst and Chris, you listening?)
I think the students should drill the openers and routines once before using
them. Day 1 should start an hour earlier so the students can run over the
openers and routines on each other, live, at least once.
I think Mystery should introduce one more new non-magical routine (not too
short) on Day 2, and one more on Day 3. And every magic or mentalism routine
he teaches needs to be drilled at least once, or the students won't be able to
use them.
When Mystery told me to do a sarge and picked out the set and the opener for
me, it was really helpful--especially for the first approach--because it took
all the decisions out of my hands. It was comforting knowing I was
approaching a set that Mystery would approach with an opener that Mystery
would use. Other times Mystery said, "Who wants to take this set?", and that
wasn't so helpful (though Cobra the approach robot got well-earned bragging
rights out of it--go, Cobra!). I think Mystery should tell, not ask.
Again, having every student use the same openers may be asking some students
to overcome too many fears at once. Ideally, each student would get a sheet
with three _different_ openers from the other students'. If that's not
possible, how about nine openers, each apportioned to two different students?
In addition to teaching negs, consider teaching teases as well. When I say
"tease", I mean role reversal stuff that differs from a neg in that it always
makes the target _laugh_ and can even be used on 7's (as long as you're
smiling). Like the examples I used in this report. My sarges didn't catch
fire until I was able to get challenges going. Newbies can especially benefit
from teases that can be fired at any time, and don't require fast
reflexes--like Sisonpyh's idea of taking a woman's hand for 15 seconds, then
quickly replacing it while saying, "No hand holding this early." Which can be
followed by Mystery's "Are you always this bold?"
But these are small quibbles to one of the most memorable weekends of my life.
. . . . . . . . . The End . . . . . . . .
Dear readers of Cliff's Newsletter: I would love to hear your comments on how
you would have handled the women in this report.
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Mystery:
I started a CONVO THREAD in my lounge that I'd like to invite others to
take part in. It's about women of extreme youth (but still legal of
course). Members of my lounge, please comment. Sorry I can't talk about it
here, too PUBLIC.
Aiight, you already know about my upcoming road trip to Miami to teach you
guys MM on April 11, 12, and 13. But did you know I'm doing a workshop in
Toronto on March 28, 29, and 30 as well? Of course I say, DO THE MIAMI
WORKSHOP if at all possible because DUDES, it's MIAMI! but if you prefer
Toronto, we can make the most of Easter Weekend. Fuck the cold, we'll be
INSIDE with the hunnies. www.mysterymethod.com
Also, my Power-lev is ***new and improved***. You can now levitate objects
"a variable distance from your body". This is what one guy said about
power-lev:
"I am still having great success with your power-lev which blows my mind
even when I perform it for the 1000th time." ~ Dan***0@ho***.com[ ? ]
For more info on this amazing SEX MAGIC effect, head to
www.erikvonmarkovik.com and click on LEARN MAGIC.
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Arte:
> William: Josh, How good will it feel to share this website information
with the brothers on this list so that we can all make women experience
some of this squirting action.? Can you imagine what an interesting
situation will be created when several guys on this list make women just go
totally wild with pleasure and you can claim some credit for bringing this
to them? Help us brothers become FEMALE EJACULATION EXPERTS.
Arte: If you want to learn how to bring ANY WOMAN to screaming orgasms and
bed-soaking female ejaculations, check out the New Sex Institute video NEW
SEX NOW at http://www.NewSex.org
These techniques are guaranteed to work.
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Manuel:
> Drew: I just came across a porno web site called the Bang Bus
(). I wouldn't bring it up but it seems that these
2 guys drive around and pick up women. Then convince them to have sex with
them or 3rd party men that they have with them. I don't have the cash to
join the web site and watch their movies to see what's going on. But
apparently these guys are getting action. Might be worth it for someone to
look at them. There are like 20+ of these movies.
Manuel: You can get most of those videos from your favourite pirate file
sharing network. Anyway, I paid for the 3 day trial and this is my take on
it: ASF GrandMaster + alpha attitude + high school style blackmailing. The
guy always uses the same routines and jokes and knows what he is doing, and
basically mindfucks the girls pushing their emotions all the time. If you
want to seduce by being a jerk, then you can learn a lot from those videos.
You can find the essence of jerk manipulative tactics here:
http://www.galaktek.com/cgi-bin/index?page=stupidthings.html
You will recognize those tactics in the videos. I would recommend the
videos to anyone who needs to develop persistence and the "I take what I
want and I get no shit from anybody" attitude.
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NightLight9:
> INSIDER: Thanks for the info, Nightlight, however no disrespect
intended, Just FYI -- the book you mentioned turns out that it's a fraud.
The reviews noted there was a disclaimer in the book that stated that the
chycks featured were not the author's ex-girlfriends, but in fact models
who posed. You can view this in the reviews towards the bottom of the page at:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0965653536/qid%3D1016474568/ref%3Dsr%
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0965653536/qid=1016474568/ref=sr%25
5F11%5F0%5F1/002-6225677-4824033
This reminds of the www.netvideogirls.com website which stated that
everything was staged as well.
NightLight9: Well that sucks. I could tell the netvideogirls thing was
fake, but the book is very well done. It makes sense though from a release
standpoint. This is my favorite review:
You've read the New Yorker, right?, December 8, 2001
Reviewer: A reader from Chicago, IL United States
This book is not, in fact, candid photos of ex girlfriends, but is actually
posed photographs. That's fine, but I think buyers should know that Mark
Helfrich was a child during the 70's, so even his claim that all this
sexual experimentation could have taken place in the 1970's is, well, you
know, puffed up. (I know, I actually dated him.)
Another reviewer challenged the possibility of bedding that many hot women.
That made me laugh. Bangbus.com is another one of these supposed PU based
porn that is getting posted alot. I think this one is fake as well but I've
only seen the trailers.
> Mark B.: I found women tend to prefer this level of implied interest
until they begin to talk about their sexuality and even then it's best to
hold back the explicit expression that you want to bone her until you are
sitting on her couch and are engaged in serious making out.
NightLight9: Doesn't this contradict nearly every other post you've ever made?
> MB: In fact how I got the numbers was with the line "You seem
interesting and I would like to know more about you. How about we have a
casual coffee next Friday where you can tell me more about yourself" -
implied interest kept very casual and it worked every time.
NightLight9:You really seem to be taking a completely different tact.
Anyway, I wasn't going to post this to this list but here is something that
happened to me that made me think of you:
So I pulled these two chicks after yoga last night. It was weird though. I
arrived late with all my motorcycle gear. After Yoga I go work out with
weights. To give some background: Yoga is all chicks except for like 3
guys. Most of the chicks have BF's, fiancees or Hubbies. About 1/3 are
doable, but almost all of them are taken. I have pulled 1 chick after about
a year of yoga. Approached 2 others, but got typically BF excuse. Not a
good place to do high pressure closes, since I go back every 3 days. I've
also found that I'm in too laid back of a state after yoga (if you try it,
you will find it's really amazing both physically and mentally, especially
if you have a stressful job). Anyway, I've pretty much given up in there
except for looking.
Afterwards I'm walking out from yoga with all my motorcycle gear in my
arms. I always walk next door to the store and get a smoothy. So I put my
bike gear down in the weight room and grab my pants only (since my wallet
is in there) and start heading out to the smooth shop next door. A chick
from yoga ends up walking out next to me because of the layout of the gym.
I say "how was it" Fluff. "Blah blah." I expect this to end quickly, but
she is into it. We walk out and we start talking. She's already interested.
I'm just building rapport (the interest is already there. After a few
minutes of good convo, I say "I'm going next door to buy a juice, you want
to walk with me?" She says "yes" without hesitation. I'm already in. So we
walk over there.
The juice place only hires high school hotties. All tall thin blonds with
nice asses. They dress the part too. Tight shirts and tight jeans. Look
good, but can't touch. Anyway, we walk in and this hottie says "What's your
name again, we were just talking about you" to me. I say, "Oh, I thought I
felt my ears burning"
particular chick once with a bunch of AFC's (I mostly talked to them) and I
wasn't acting like much of a PUA at the time> So I don't act curious at all
and tell her my name, and ask hers (saying I forgot it, but she never told
it to me at all).
I talk to the first chick again (23 year old works with chimpanzees in one
of the sign language programs). So I pattern on animals and evolution and
how fucked up most people are about creationism
for her>. Anyway, like I said I just need rapport at this point as she is
obviously interested in seeing where this goes. She digs it.
I ask her what she's going to get and she says she didn't have any money. I
tell her I'll buy hers. She says no. I tell her she can buy both of them
next time. And she's excited about it.
enough of a PUA that this never stops me from getting laid, but it's also
not necessary for my game. To buy or not to buy. That is the question...>
But I think as long as there is no expectation there is no harm here.
We leave the place and as I pay I ask the HSHB "who was talking about me?"
She says she was talking with the AFC guys about me. Weird. Anyway, I say
"Oh, that's weird, those guys are more your friends than mine" (this is a
bit of neg as I know those guys are always hitting on her and she isn't
into it). I don't ask what was said. I figure this is more confident
curious though... :-)>
We walk back to the doorway of the gym, talk some more and I number close.
Too easy.
I go in and work out. While I'm working out this other HB walks into the
weight room. I'm talking to a friend and I look up and she's just
disappeared. Weird. So I work out for about 3/4 hours in that room. Then I
go work out in the other room. I come back to the entrance to the weight
room to say goodbye to a buddy and the HB I saw walk into the weight room
and disappear, walks out and goes to the changing room. Weird... I go
outside and I'm about to start my bike. She walks out, but I'm on the cell,
so I can't say anything. I get off the phone and call after her across the
parking lot "Hey, Tommy Girl" (she's got a Tommy Hillfiger Bang bag).
She says "Yeah?" I'm thinking this is going to be bail because I'm chasing
half way across the parking lot, but I really want to know where she went.
I get over there and she's totally receptive to convo (keep in mind both
these convos occur for the most part in 1 degree Celsius weather while is
raining and windy) I ask her about her disappearing act and explain why I
was curious (this is such a weak opener...) I'm thinking bail again... She
totally starts talking. She's a nurse in the ICU, so I pattern on how hard
that can be, but if you believe in God that can really help. Once again, I
don't need to do anything but build rapport. You know how sometimes you can
just tell that? So I number close with her pen and paper. At the end she
puts up a little "Do you want to give me your number?"
It was like these chicks just thought I was really desirable to begin with.
No great openers. No social proof (I was already in before the whole thing
with counter girl). No takeaways. No negs. Just confidence (Like what MB
always posts about, but I've never seen in real life). I think my tonality
is getting better naturally (I don't have to think about it to much as long
as I'm not congested).
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Dwacon:
Dwacon: The bang bus videos were available from Morpheus when I had it
working. Since they upgrade their software (to add more spyware code) and I
changed my operating system, it no longer works for me. But I suspect these
vignettes are not spontaneous but staged. I could be wrong... but logically
if they did this in real life and then publicized it (without model
releases) they'd be looking at lawsuits or worse. Of course, as Dennis
Miller says... that's only my opinion... I could be wrong.
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Bry:
> A bit later, it's closing in on time to leave for a club called Sound
Factory. When a student spends too much time with one group, Mystery or
Chris will walk up and whisper in his ear "time constraint," which means
close now before you get stale, unless you're on a trajectory to a
tonguedown or more.
Bry: It's been a while since I've said anything on this list but I just had
to say a little something about approach, ejection and staleness. Now I'm
well aware of all the rules because I've been doing this for a long time
just like a lot of you. The controversial 3-second rule for example is one
I break on a regular basis (with great results). But that's not the point
of this writing. The "time constraint" practice is something that I blow
off routinely and why I'm writing this. So here's a lil something for
those playas who are still learning.
My favorite way to approach is not to approach. Allow me to clarify. If a
girl is at the bar, I go get a drink. (Never beer, never wine, always a
mixed drink, water or juice). I don't approach her. She is an afterthought.
If the bartender is taking a long time (which they always do) I make a
comment. Never negative. Always with a little wit. Always gets a response.
From there we move into conversation and the pick-up begins.
Now I never have to eject. I can hang there all night with no reason to
leave. Usually my friends join me at the bar and I stop talking to her and
talk to the boys. Occasionally I'll turn back to her and converse for
another 10 minutes or so and break back to the friends. When/if she wants
more of my attention she gets into my convo with my friends. If she does
that she's a done deal.
If I do step away to do some other things, I can always reinsert myself
since that's "my spot" at the bar. I never look like I came back for her. I
just came back to my spot. If she's still there (which 75% of the time she
is) then lucky her.
If she's cold (happens probably 5% of the time), then I can do 1 of 2
things. I can eject (which I rarely ever do), or I can stay and talk to my
friends. Don't ever talk to a cold prospect in this situation. It does more
harm then good. After all, I came to get a drink NOT to talk to her. She is
an afterthought. After I talk to my buddies for a while she always warms up
because she realizes that:
* I didn't come to talk to her. I came to hang at the bar.
* I could care less if she talks to me, I'm still having a good time.
* I'm an interesting guy.
She finds out all three while eavesdropping on my convo with my
buddies. Another good point is she gets to look at me "without me knowing
about it". Being from NYC, I always know when someone's looking at me. Now
I'll concede that this works well because I'm not an ugly guy. And I don't
normally hold stupid conversations. If I was on the ugly side and my
conversational topics sucked, then this strategy would probably not work as
well. There's a disclaimer for ya. So she gets to see the dimples and the
mannerisms and generally gets to size me up. After she's done that she
warms up I give her a little (not more than a minute) bit of attention and
then go back to my buddies. I didn't eject, I don't go stale, and she still
gets to observe me. Peaks her interest. "He wanted to talk to me before,
why not now?" At this point the pickup is back on track.
Using this technique I don't usually pick up girls. They usually pick me
up. Always a better situation to be in in my opinion. They feel like they
are in control when it's actually a finely crafted controlled situation. I
don't get numbers. I don't give numbers. I hate phones. It's all or nothing
and when they pick you up you can do whatever you want. ; )
So in conclusion, if you don't want to think about anything except for the
words that come out your mouth (and you don't even have to think about that
after a while), then try this approach. No worries about going stale. No
worries about when to eject. No worries about how to start a conversation
or approach. No worries about anything really. After all, you went to the
bar to get a drink. Enjoy.
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Max:
The following are some interesting titles I happened to run across on
amazon. I might review some of them in the future, but I thought I would
bring them to the list's attention.
Nice Guys And Players : Becoming The Man Women Want by Rom Wills
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Wills%2C%20Rom/102-8128119-6912145
Undercover Sex Signals [a body language»-type guide] by Leil Lowndes
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Lowndes%2C%20Leil/102-8128119-6912145
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0965568237/ref=pd_sim_books/102-8128119-6912145
How to Get Your Lover Back by Blase Harris
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Harris%2C%20Blase/102-8128119-6912145
How to Win the Love You Want : Effective Techniques and Tactics for Getting
the One You Love to Love Back
by Thomas W. McKnight
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=McKnight%2C%20Thomas%20W./102-8128119-6912145
Robert H. Phillips
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Phillips%2C%20Robert%20H./102-8128119-6912145
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Mark B.:
Today (Thursday March 21st) I was waiting to cross the street to get back
to my building from lunch and I see a beautiful woman, maybe about 27 or a
bit older that looked like a mix of maybe French, Indian, Black and some
perhaps some Middle Eastern walking toward the cross walk with a huge bag
with what looks like a toy inside. She was struggling to control the bag in
the wind and when she walked up to me to cross the street I said to her
with a slight smile:
MB: "tough controlling the bag eh?"
Her "yeah the wind is pretty harsh'
MB: "that looks like a toy"
Her: "it's a kitchen set for my niece's birthday"
More fluff talk and she mentions she is here alone from Quebec
MB: "so you are all alone, how long have you been here"
Her: "about 2 years"
MB: "over that time you must have met a few people"
Her: "well, it was hard because I did not speak English very well"
More fluff talk and she tells me she is going back home tonight to visit
her family. We arrive at my office building and I said "that's me right
here, how about you?"
Her: "I am in building #3" (I am in #1)
MB: "You seem interesting and I would like to learn more about you. How
about a casual coffee when you get back and you can tell me more about
yourself?"
Her: "My name is Jennifer. Here is my number 905-xxx-xxxx, call me after
April 1st when I get back and we'll get together"
MB: "My name is Mark" she paused at this and smiled for some reason. We
said good bye and she left with a smile on her face.
All I did was be very, very easy and casual, focused on her and followed up
on what she said and allowed her to talk without jumping in immediately and
interrupting her. I also looked at her in the eye when she spoke and gave
her my total attention. All this without any mention of sex or how good it
would be to bone her from behind. For some reason I got a hard on just by
talking to her as she had an incredible amount of sexual energy to her.
This rarely happens to me when I first meet a woman but it did with her.
Let's see what happens when she gets back.
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Sharky Shark:
I address this letter to Mark B just to unify some of the stuff that I've
been reading from this list and other sources but especially on what Mark B
has been contributing over the past few months.
Hello Mark,
Ever since I read your first article about how you discovered patterns and
their effectiveness I have looked out for your articles and watched as you
have experimented with different approaches and ideas.
I have observed as you've progressed from the use of patterns to deliberate
mismatching, to expression of opinions as a means of suggesting, to
complimenting in the right way, to being direct, to not being direct, to
being direct at the beginning of and end of an encounter, to being indirect
as in expressing casual curiosity and not showing direct interest until the
time is right.
In gleaning from your contributions and comparing them to the ideas of some
of the gurus out there, this is a unification I have come up with to
summarize what your approach or a good general approach might be:-
1.Don't appear too eager as borne out in casual curiosity..neg in the extreme
2.Show independence and lack of eagerness by deliberate mismatching or
disagreement at appropriate moments.
3.Suggest activities by expressing them in the form "I think you and I
can/should/...
4.Show interest at beginning and end. Just by approaching is sign of
interest then at the end show interest after "casual" conversation
5.Know how to use RJ patterns and NLP for effect at appropriate moments
6.Be careful with compliments...
7.And of course the cardinal rule..Don't care what she's thinking
I wonder what you'll add or detract from the above and what your current
approach to the game is, at this moment.
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Drew (Another One) commenting on:
> Drew: I just came across a porno web site called the Bang Bus
(http://www.bangbus.com/). I wouldn't bring it up but it seems that these 2
guys drive around and pick up women. Then convince them to have sex with
them or 3rd party men that they have with them. I don't have the cash to
join the web site and watch their movies to see what's going on. But
apparently these guys are getting action. Might be worth it for someone to
look at them. There are like 20+ of these movies.
Drew (the other one): I just had to respond lol. I think bangbus.com has
been mentioned here before. It pretty much falls in the same category as
the whole netvideogirls.com topic. The consensus is that the clips are most
likely staged. They may be entertaining, but don't put too much emphasis on
them for learning to PU... at the end of the day, it's still just only porn.
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recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back
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from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of
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INFORMATION ABOUT THIS NEWSLETTER ARCHIVE:
This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction,
maintained by "Clifford". Your comments are requested, encouraged, and
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