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The girl that kissed me was now talking to Luis Sojo
4/6/02 12:14:39 PM Eastern Standard Time

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David Update:
The mini-seminar held was a big success.  The tapes are in process and we
got a good 7 hours of David recorded.  Now what is needed is a name
(something good, like, uh, "Speed Seduction»" or "Double your Dating»"...) so
if anyone has any ideas, please let me know.  Then I have to register that
name, and put a face/title/credits screen on the videotapes so they can
then be sent out.  So we are close to being ready to get these in your
hands.  The book, too, is nearing completion and that's something I am
really looking forward to also.

Private in person or telephone consultations with David are available.

PLEASE NOTE:  This David is not to be confused with David DeAngelo of
www.doubleyourdating.com (who has posted some great stuff here under the
name "Sisonpyh"), or David Shade (of www.davidshade.com).

David is particularly intuitive with regard to your specific individual
problems with certain women.  You can get on the phone, answer his
questions on the situation, and he will give you very insightful advice on
how to succeed in your particular mission.

He's had some spectacular results, and you will be reading much more about
this soon.

Doug from Australia:
You were absolutely right... I got a tremendous amount of my consultation
with David..and it was fun too!.Worth every cent.
It's still a work in progress as I'm putting it into practice and have then
got to get back to David... but from my experience so far, I'm sure it works.

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Problems getting these emails?  I am still having some of you tell me you
haven't been getting them - mainly from aol accounts.
Let me know.  I will figure something out eventually.

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Sisonpyh:
"Hey Sis, where have you been for the last year or so?"

I've been off working on my alter-ego David DeAngelo and my
DoubleYourDating.com» project.
And, as it turns out, I'm doing a live program in Los Angeles in a couple
of months (May 24-26) and

Cliff asked me to write a quick blurb about it. So here it is.

Over the last 12 months, I've learned a lot. I've interacted personally
with about 1,000 guys on the phone, in person live, and via email. and I've
also deepened my understanding about how this whole men-women-sex thing works.

The question I keep asking myself is:
"OK, now that I get how this works pretty well, HOW DO I EXPLAIN IT TO
OTHERS IN A WAY THAT MAKES SENSE AND REALLY HELPS GET REAL RESULTS IN THE
REAL WORLD?"

Sounds simple enough, but as you probably know from your own life
experiences, it's one thing to learn how to do something well, but it's
something different entirely to teach others effectively in a way that gets
them results.

So over the last 12 months I've been studying a lot about evolution,
genetics, Ethology (the study of animal behavior), human behavior, and a
few other topics. I've probably read about 40 or 50 books on these topics,
because I think I'm finally getting to the heart of the matter.

I now "get" at a deep level why attractive women respond to having their
balls busted. Why us guys become afraid when we are near an attractive
woman. Why women don't call back when we call them. Why attractive women
can seem unusually cold when you first meet them. Why a few of my "average"
friends always get laid while some of my "attractive" friends never do. And
on and on.

Now, some people would say "Yea, but knowing WHY a problem exists isn't
always useful. That can lead to mental loops and getting stuck looking at
problems instead of solutions."

OK, right.

BUT, this is different. See, I'm not looking at the roots of these problems
for MYSELF, I'm looking at them so I can BETTER EXPLAIN SOLUTIONS to
others. Which is the big difference.

Here's the deal: I've gotten tons of requests to do live consulting, live
trainings, etc. so I decided to do one. It's in Los Angeles, from Friday to
Sunday, May 24-26th.

I've invited some of my friends who are great with women to come join us,
and I have some major players in the success-with-women category that will
be in attendance as well. It's going to be a hoot.

This will not be a two-bit training with five guys and me sitting around a
table. This is the real thing. Big hotel ballroom, full audio and video
setup, staff on site to help, and the whole ball of wax.

If you go to my information page you can read the details of what I'm going
to cover (and, as a free bonus you'll also get the take-action-now sales
vibe). Of course, as with everything I do, you get a 100%
no-questions-asked money-back guarantee. I hope you can make it.

Just go to:
http://www.doubleyourdating.com/cl/seminar/
for all the details.

I told Cliff that he needs to come, so hopefully he'll be there as well.

Questions? Send them to sup***t@do***.com[ ? ] and I'll make sure you
get an answer.

Hope to see you there,

Sisonpyh

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Ronnie:
> Cyzia:  I have been reading Clifford's list (and other resources like
asf) for 2 years but it is the first time that I participate.  Why? It's
very simple: during the first 1.5 years I read everything I could find on
the net about seduction, and asf/clifford really opened my eyes about the
subject, I realized why my love life was so disappointing and I started to
get very good about seduction, well... about the THEORY of seduction. I
used to be very shy and even if I was not so shy at the time I read all
this stuff, I was still paralyzed when I had to talk to a strange woman. I
tried NLP, patterns, visualization, auto-suggestions ... but I  always had
this invisible barrier within me that prevented me from talking to a woman
I was attracted to. It was sooooo frustrating ...   Things started to
change 6 months ago when I moved to another city. There, thanks to PAIR (a
lot of thanks to Formhandle for having set it up - (see
www.fas.speed-seduction.com), I met another guy like me.  We were afraid but we
were both very motivated to get over our inhibitions. The first time we
spent 3 hours in a shopping mall and made only one approach each!  The
second time I gave him 20 dollars and told him to give it back to me only
if I made 10 approaches in 1 hour. After 30 minutes, I had made 2
approaches! 10 minutes before the deadline I still had 4 to make. But I
really didn't want to lose face in front of my wing...

Ronnie: My brother and I used to play a game that we referred to as "Being
On." Basically if we were "ON" I would pick any woman I wanted, and as many
women as I wanted and my borther would have to approach them. This worked
both ways. He also picked whoever he wanted for me.
Now you could pick an ugly one if you wanted, but payback is a Bitch!
Besides it's more fun to watch someone approach the finest HB possible. Now
if the other person flakes on a pick, he buys lunch. And you always RAPE
his credit card.

This got us over any hesitation as far as approaching women anywhere,
anyplace, anytime.

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Tony B.:
Last night I was out at a couple of different local bars and managed to get
numbers and email address closes from 5 different women that would rate
8.5-9+. And here's how it happened....
At the first bar we were at, one of the hottest girls in the bar approached
me to get a cigarette which happened to be accompanied by some nice contact
from her (kino). Then later on her friend came up to introduce herself to
me and the people I was sitting with.. Then later on, the other one came up
to introduce herself to our table and I.. at that point we were just a few
guys just sitting with each other BS'ing and having a good time. The 3rd
girl was very inviting and said that we should join them, so there was no
reason not to take her up on that! Went over to their table of 3 and it was
all good, we began to chat about random bullshit, they asked us what we
were doing afterwards and if we smoked weed and shit.. Unfortunately I
don't and don't get around weed that often cause it just is not the most
fun thing for me to do. More conversation passed on and the bar was
beginning to close so our checks were handed out accordingly and we were
all still BS'ing as I ordered a shot of "red headed slut."  The girl next
to me asked me to buy her one and tried to lay some guilt trip on me about
doing a shot alone. I was playful about it but turned her down. A few
minutes later I was discussing psychology with one of the girls that was at
the table cause that's her major in College.

For some odd reason the word "test" was thrown out a couple times so I said
to one of the other girls "Wait, I have a test for you!" then the girl that
tried to get me to buy her a shot asked me to "do her." I turned her down
out of playfulness and did the other girl instead with the "house in the
woods" kokology game that I learned on the pickupguide.com» site. That built
a shit load of rapport, and the other girl that was a psych major even
helped me out with some of the answers to give the girl. The night grew old
as the bar was closing and by the end of the conversation I was in such
deep rapport with all these girls that they all wanted to give me their
info (digits). They left for the bathroom and then we also left and I had 3
nice new numbers in my pocket from these 3 women..

THEN!!

We had decided that the night was "too young" to just go home even though
it was a Tuesday night. So we decided to hit up another restaurant/bar.
This time there is limited seating at the bar so we had to squeeze some
people around and just make do with what we had, there were 3 women sitting
to my right and I felt the urge to begin a conversation in the middle of
theirs. That ended up leading into some long discussions about her life in
the Police Department and such, about how people are always telling her
that they don't like her cause she's a cop. I decided to break her state of
that with me and talk about poor ideas that people get about police
officers and such then separated myself from them, and our conversation was
in a better "frame" after that. After some discussion with her, then her
friend, it somehow came up that we should talk about tattoos and piercings.
So, after noticing her abundance of this material and the signature back
tattoo, I decided to just throw the question out there "how long have you
been bi-sexual for?". She was quite startled that I knew this and was so
open to ask about it, and her friend of 10 years that JUST "found out" kept
asking me "how the fuck did you know that? I didn't even know till
recently." The question was repeated and the girl wouldn't shut up about
it. She and I just discussed the comfortability issue of sexuality and
such, and openness. At this point there was a lot of rapport and the
conversation had led to the point where she wanted to know how I knew she
was bi, since she was startled as well. I just blew off the fact that she
was a cop and said that it was her mannerisms and the way that she presents
herself in "free will". I had to step away from the conversation to break
rapport with her at that time, (scarcity), and went and talked to some
other girls that were sitting just to my left one seat over. The girls were
not the hottest but the bar was beginning to pack up with more people and
some professional sports figures so, I had to get my "rounds" in before my
opportunities thinned down. Talking with these other girls and standing
next to her, she just decided to try to kiss me and that was great.  She
left some lipstick on my face which is like one of the best ways to say
"social proof!" Since I have my head shaven bald, she had some sort of
predilection with kissing it too. I was talking to her for a bit while the
original girl was away talking to her other cop friend that was in uniform
eating dinner.  As she returned, I walked away from that girl and went back
to talk to the original girl again. Of course the first thing she noticed
was the lipstick.  At that point she was planning on leaving, so she said
"we should hang out again" and asked me for my number and I got hers. I
stayed there for a while longer and chatted more about the more "important
things in life" hehe... She ended up staying all night to talk with me. I
had dashed away to use the restroom to see that the girl that kissed me was
now talking to Luis Sojo of the NY Yankees. That bastard had taken liberty
of inviting the girl to their table which was adjacent to her seating at
the bar. I noticed the place was beginning to clear out and I rounded up my
friends and we left.

Oh, yes, and "Jen" my football "buddy" was at the bar with her boyfriend
giving me mad kino, and in an effort to not look like a complete asshole to
him while his girlfriend was touching me all over, I was introducing myself
to him and such, so that way it wouldn't be so hard on him when September
comes around (football season begins) : ).

Just so you all know, this doesn't happen to me all the time, BUT, just so
you know, IT DOES HAPPEN NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE. I hope you all enjoy my
rather eloquent and animated outing report, it was just as fun to write as
it was to have the experiences that led up to it!

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Mark B.:
>... but I always had this invisible barrier within me that prevented me
from talking to a woman I was attracted to. It was sooooo frustrating ...)

MB: If you could find out what that is you could be on the road to mastery.
>It took me 23 approaches before I got my first phone number close. Then I
got one close after each 10 PU (on average) and now 1 out of 7. What are
your statistics in Street PU?

MB: I think you should be commended for your persistence and patience. Many
would quit after this level of failure. I think that as you go along your
subconscious will begin to understand what to do and what not to do. Many
may feel that this level of failure is useless but it's not. It creates
powerful emotional imprints as to what not to do in order to succeed. And
when you figure out for yourself what is your key to success the frame of
reference from your mistakes will offer you the cattle prod mechanism from
making them again.
> The only way to get over the fear is to accept it and do what I was
afraid of anyway. But the problem is that I was too afraid to act! The
snake is biting his tail. The only solution is to find a wing (or, even
better, a 'coach') as motivated as you.

MB: I think a better solution is to ultimately seek to be able to do it on
your own. I would suggest you seriously sit down and write down everything
you did and what worked and what did not. Doing the wrong thing harder does
not make it more effective nor will it get you more results.
>...a Miss Internet (she also had a TV show) was asking me out! ... but
she never came to the date.....She never came, neither did she answer my
calls. Other times when I call the women I number closed, they say they are
too busy or other shit. I've never seen people on the list complaining
about this. Are we the only ones to get such problems in Street PU?.........

MB: I know that where you meet women is totally irrelevant. What matters is
how you come across and what you do. If done properly the setting becomes
irrelevant. Really. I think that somehow your fear of women or your fear of
something that they do is driving them away from you. Look at exactly what
you are doing and what you are feeling when you talk to a woman. Are you
rushing your conversation with women, looking away, looking to close her
and get away from her, do you walk way first when you meet her, end a
conversation first and quickly then run off, is your speech fast? There may
be a part of you that wants to be with her but another part of you that
wants to get away and this second part could be influencing your actions
which indicate to her that you fear her or want to move away from her. The
reason I say this is that I used to be this way (back in 1997). I wanted
women but feared them leaving so I would rush conversations and seek to
"quickly close" them so that they do not get away rather than just
interacting with them. This resulted in many missed dates and wrong
numbers. Try this, next time you are with a woman talking, let her speak
and do not interrupt. Let the conversations develop on it's own with the
two of you driving it rather than just you. If she stops let there be
silence before you speak. Look at her in the eye and keep it there with a
smile. Also pay attention to her. There may be a part of you that fears
getting rejected that you do not pay full attention to her for fear of her
rejecting you if you give her your full attention. Sort of like thinking
that if you pay more attention to her there is a great chance she will
reject you but if you pay less attention to her there is a lesser chance of
rejection. However this makes her feel that you really are not interested
in her or are insecure and causes her to move away from you, hence broken
dates and missed meetings. So stay in there for as long as you can.  I
would suggest you force yourself to slow down in your conversation and how
quickly you move. Try to allow her to have her "space and room" in the
conversation and interaction by allowing her to be her so to speak rather
than trying to control her outcomes and behaviour. Paradoxically the more
"her space" you give her the more willing she will become to be with
you.  Case in point. A few days ago I was sitting down at my local strip
bar having a drink not really looking for anything. A stripper comes over
and asks me for a dance. I decline and give her a direct look in the eye
and smile. She sits down next to me and begins talking. I run some very
subtle patterns based on what she said but most of the time I just let her
talk. During pauses in the conversation I stayed quiet and did not say
anything. She continued on filling in the blanks. Then about 20 minutes
later she says that it's 9:30 her shift is over and she is leaving and asks
me if I wanted to do something with her when she leaves. I decline as she
was not really my type and it was Sunday and I had to wake up early the
next day for work. But what made this successful was the fact that I let
her be so to speak and listened to her and not tried to control her outcome
or reactions. This freed her to be herself and act.
I have been re-reading SS and began to use it in the following manner.
Initiate conversation with a woman. Listen to her and what she says.
Escalate and enhance what she says to me through patterns, autosuggestions
and implied commands about what I want them to feel. Make comments to her
about what I think of her in terms.  Example. I am at the gym and I see a
fit black woman (she turned out to be 43 but looks 31 at most) working out.
I initiate a conversation with her and proceed to talk about her workout.
She tells me about her diet and her goals to which I say "You know being in
shape is one of the greatest things you can do for yourself. It makes you
feel good INSIDE and feel fulfilled. It gives you passion and meaning to
your life and offers you all the good feelings you want to feel." Then she
begins to tell me about her job and career, and I say "Many people need
fulfillment in their lives and it's good that you can pursue things that
give you meaning. Feeling good INSIDE and feeling calm and comfortable is
key to a good life and that includes your job and your career" and on and
on like that. Then I left and did not see her for two weeks. I see her
there the other day. She comes up to me and says "Mark, I just wanted to
tell you that I could not stop thinking about our conversation the last
time I saw you. I told one of my girlfriends about it and all the things
you said to me. My girlfriend said that you were an ANGEL sent from heaven
to me to give me messages". I laughed like hell inside. Can angels fuck? I
guess when it's with an angel it's O.K. Funny thing though is that I never
intended to elicit anything like this from her nor did I think it would
have such an impact. I just wanted to practice my escalation and SS skills.
I guess when positioned in the context of what she is talking about, SS
offers a killer one-two-three punch.
Another case. Same gym, another woman. Same type of escalation. She then
says "I am going to the Indian Motorcycle club tonight (Saturday) with some
girlfriends. Why don't you come out and meet me there". She never asked me
out before nor did we ever really talk for long at any other times. When
used right SS is a killer methodology but it's not my the main event but
another tool in my bag of tricks. I think the key is to use patterns and
imbedded comments in the right context (meaning that it's probably best
used when combined with a subject matter that she brings up or based on
words she says). This way you connect it to her rather than randomly
throwing out patterns because you want to elicit a state without any prior
input from her.

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Ciz:
You might remember my post regarding Lacey last December. This post is an
update on this continuing saga...

Well, I tried all of everyone's great advice, but things stagnated, until
recently. I was talking to Lacey's friend, Sonja, and was telling her to
build me up to Lacey, to give me social proof to her, and she was going
along with it. I was giving this a while to work. However, it turns out
Sonja was doing what I instructed her with another friend, Allison. Well,
to make a long story short, Allison is much hotter than either of them and
is bisexual. Allison and Sonja came over last Friday and Allison ended up
wanting to have a threesome with me and Sonja. Sonja really didn't do
anything because she has a boyfriend, but she did feel Allison up while I
was banging her. Anyways, Allison told me when Sonja was outside that she
thought that Sonja would get jealous of her because she thought Sonja liked
me. After we were done, Allison said she had the best orgasm of her life
(she's only 18, but hey, I tried) and wanted to stay with me but finally
gave in to Sonja's urgings to go to a club, which was their original
destination before stopping by my apartment.

So, on Saturday, I called Lacey, who was at home, while I was on route to a
party and received an earful about what I did with Allison. She told me
that I am one of those guys who like to have sex with a lot of girls. And,
I asked her how she heard this and she told me that Sonja told her
everything. I asked her what Sonja told her, and she kept trying to get me
to tell her what happened, but I did not divulge any information except to
ask her what Sonja told her. Anyways, I mentioned that she should act more
like Allison does towards me and we would get along really well. Lacey
responded, "What, you want me to act like a whore?"

My question is, what is the move from here? I was hoping to play off the
great sex Allison experienced with me to my advantage to get Lacey to
really want me. How can I do this? Further information from Sonja was that
Lacey has not been going out or having sex with anyone since I met her,
apparently. So, I want her to actually go out with me, now. I also was
asked via Sonja why I like Lacey. I dodged this question. I actually like
her because of her values and personality. What is the proper response as
to why I like her?

Also asked, prior to Friday, if I would be cheating on Lacey if I went out
with her. And I gave the response, I believe it was from either Toecutter
or Nightlight9, if when I go out with someone it is because I choose to be
with that person. Knowing that I could have sex with other girls, it is my
choice to pick that special girl, for us to be satisfied with each other, etc.

Well, ok, I did make a mistake here, as Allison was leaving, Sonja told me
that she would give her my number. Instead of having Allison give me her
number directly. I am getting the vibe Sonja will be blocking the number
exchange. I don't really care at this point, though Allison was very hot,
9.5+ , former cheerleader, etc., etc.   One more thing, Lacey did mention
that I was, "not her type." She really did not have a reason why she did
not like me as more than a friend. I told her that she must be the type of
girl who wants to limit her enjoyment, etc. And that when she shops she
would prefer K-Mart to, say... "Nieman Marcus", she filled in the blank
here." And that if she picked up apples at the store, she must look for the
rotten, bruised, and sour ones. And I went on, "so I was watching this
episode of Oprah the other day, it was couples who started off with one
person liking the other person and one person wanting to be friends, and
that over time the second person became more attracted and became really
attached to the first person. This caused her to want to be much more than
friends. And then they lived happily ever after."  Lacey went on to say
that then they got divorced, etc. Or that after the second person liked the
first person the first person ended up not liking the second person, etc. I
believe Lacey is a polarity responder. I never have tried saying, well, you
probably couldn't go out with me because I'm not really interested in you,
etc.   So, she goes on to say that when she gets married she wanted to only
get married once and not get divorced. I told her I wanted the same thing.
Then we went in to where I was going and I told her to a party. She said
that I was going to the party because I want to pick up girls there. I said
that I would rather have done something with her, but that she never does
anything with me. And at that point, she said that she better let me go
because I was going to walk into the party. I told her, "I'm not done with
you yet," which caused to laugh. I then talked to her for a while longer,
and then said, Ok, I have to let you go now. " That was basically the end
of the conversation.

What should I do/say from this point? Thanks for all advice given, and if
you have any questions or want more info, please email me directly at
ciz***z@ly***.com[ ? ]. Thanks again.

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Joseph:
I would like to share a new gimmick I have put into my "bag of tricks."

It is called "The Colors Of Love" by Dr. Max Luscher, author of "The
Luscher Color Test," translated by Jennifer S. Dozio. It's a very simple
test; you just get the HB to arrange the four color cards in the way she
thinks they should be, then look up what that sequence means about her way
of experiencing love and passion. Easy to run patterns off of this and if
she asks you your sequence, you can just say yours is a sequence similar to
hers. You can also use her top priority colors in synesthesia patterns,
after linking the "analysis" patterns to the colors in question. I
generally use it when I have them back at my house, but I have considered
taking it with me to sarge areas to read while waiting as well.

Plus, this test is based on real scientific study.

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Tony B. (aka Number One Stunner):
Hey all, just wanted to drop you a line about a great new addition to the
community. In the past there have been DALNET Chat channels for live "PUA"
chat and NLP/NLS chat. Since I have noticed a large amount of people in the
list that are attending that room, I figured I would let you all know about
the newest addition to the community as well, as it has been several months
since I posted my last update about it..

The new channel offers "on-topic" discussion of NLS/NLP/Seduction, as well
as a message board for those of you not able to get into the lounge but
want to talk about PUA related stuff and not get tied into a frenzy of
flames *cough* ASF *cough*

If you have an IRC Chat client you can join #pickup on DALNET. If you would
like to chat and don't yet have mIRC or a similar client, you can visit
www.mirc.com and download it from there.

See you all at #pickup on DalNet!!

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Jian:
I've just published my new eBook called "Hypnotic Persuasion: How To
Influence People And Get Anything You Really Want" and it is already
getting a great response.
http://hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/mrchange

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GameMaster:
Here's some good material for the archives. Nancy is the girl who split me
up from another girl I was seeing some time ago. She's married and although
she invited me to meet her, she's wrestling with the guilt and all that
shit and was floundering on me yesterday yakking about how none of this
made any sense cause we have so little in common. Anyway, I got the desired
reaction to this....a full itinerary and an additional day together away -
3 nites now instead of 2! Should be interesting.

Subject: 10 Things I have in common with Nancy

OK, Miss Nancy, here's my list. You know, you were so funny today. That was
a lot better than our first conversation. One thing I always really enjoyed
about you was your humor and your wit, although sometimes you may not even
be aware that the things you say are so damn funny! You kill me, and I do
remember well all the constant "we don't have anything in common"
protestations as well.  But you know what, one of the many lessons I've
learned in the last several years is that spirit, true spirit, doesn't care
what music you like, or what your belief system is, or whether you like
Thai or Mandarin. Anyway, I didn't take the traditional approach to this
list, but I think you'll understand. Let me know what you think willya?

1) It doesn't interest me what you do for a living. I want to know what you
ache for, and if you dare to dream of meeting your heart's longing.
2) It doesn't interest me how old you are. I want to know if you will risk
looking like a fool for love, for your dream, for the adventure of being
alive.
3) It doesn't interest me what planets are squaring your moon. I want to
know if you have touched the center of your own sorrow, if you have been
opened by life's betrayals or have become shriveled and closed from fear of
further pain!
4) I want to know if you can sit with pain, mine or your own, without
moving to hide it or fade it, or fix it.
5) I want to know if you can be with joy, mine or your own, if you can
dance with wildness and let the ecstasy fill you to the tips of your
fingers and toes without cautioning us to be careful, to be realistic, to
remember the limitations of being human.
6) I want to know if you can see beauty even when it's not pretty, every
day, and if you can source your own life from its presence.
7) I want to know if you can live with failure, yours and mine, and still
stand at the edge of the lake and shout to the silver of the full moon, "Yes!"
8) It doesn't interest me who you know or how you came to be here. I want
to know if you will stand in the center of the fire with me and not shrink
back.
9) It doesn't interest me where or what or with whom you have studied. I
want to know what sustains you, from the inside, when all else falls away.
10) I want to know if you can be alone with yourself and if you truly like
the company you keep in the empty moments.

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