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Fw: Comments
Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:01:28 -0500
>>>>Instead of a "Letters to the Editor" format that I used before, I
thought
>>>it
>>>>might be a good idea to snip out the useful bits of the e-mails I
receive
>>>in
>>>>reaction to my postings. Here are a selection of the more recent
>comments
>>>I
>>>>have received.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Zach: Limiting beliefs are based in the conscious mind and unconsious
>>mind.
>>>>They are called rationalizations as they apply to the conscious mind and
>>>>core beliefs to the unconscious mind. Now, the only way to change the
>>>>conscious mind for the better (in an easy and less painful manner) is to
>>>>first _change_your_unconscious_. Now, you may _find_yourself_asking_
"how
>>>do
>>>>I do that?" Well, setup a guide of a few beliefs you want to change,
>write
>>>>out why you want to
>>>>_change_them_, determine whether or not they are core beliefs that
>protect
>>>>you or if they are merely limiting beliefs that are a hinderance. Then,
>>>>prioritize the ones you want to change and work on them one at a
>>time.Next,
>>>>(and keep in mind this is HARD to do on yourself unless you are trained
>to
>>>>_do_it_, Cliff) find the best NLP technique for changing this belief. I
>>>>would recommend either using the processes mapped out in Core
>>>>Transformations by the Andreas OR use either the Swish pattern (Using
>Your
>>>>Brain by Richard Bandler)or Belief Change which I am not quite sure
which
>>>>book it is in for a reference but I believe it's in Frogs into Princes
By
>>>>Bandler and Grinder.
>>>>
>>>>Riker: >Lately I am frequently asked, "How come you aren't married/don't
>>>>have a >serious girlfriend?">>>that a lot. Now I have a stanard response...
>>>>"I skipped my first marriage".
>>>>
>>>>Generaly: (In response to the comment about giving a woman a good
>>>reputation
>>>>to live up to in order to have her call back, not break dates, etc.)
This
>>>is
>>>>called a binder. Used in sales it goes like, "I see you as being a very
>>>>fair person, do you see yourself like that?" This is done early in the
>>>>coversation and then later you say something like, "I'll lower the price
>>by
>>>>10%, now don't you think that is fair?"
>>>>With women, I like to ask them about stuff they have to do like pay the
>>>>rent, go to work on time, etc... Then I say somethig like, "I see you
as
>>>>being a very responsible, mature woman, like you know how to keep plans
>>and
>>>>commitments, do you see yourself like that?"
>>>>Then later I might say, "Hey, I'll give you a call and leave a message
if
>>>>you're not there, so you can call me back when you get home. Do you
>think
>>>>that is a responsible way to connect (I love that word)?"
>>>>
>>>>Leon: (Commenting on Claude) This stuff reads like fiction. Could it
>>really
>>>>be true?
>>>>The one thing I do know is that as he didn't give a shit. Others gave
him
>>>>incredible power over themselves. I go back into my memory in order to
>>>>improve myself and learn about people. One thing I learned is that often
>>>>times a person will want to be with someone for whatever reason. This
>part
>>>>falls under what I call the limited option ploy. As Claude was so ready
>to
>>>>walk away these women held a limited option. That being what can I do to
>>>get
>>>>him. Never asking do I even want him. I know I've been there with the
>>girls
>>>>I was interested in.
>>>>Another powerful neurotic link is that such a person as Claude and the
>>>other
>>>>assholes in the world is that they act in a way which presupposes that
>you
>>>>are treating them badly. Most people respond by trying to make up for
him
>>>>feeling bad by what they did. Even though they did nothing wrong. Some
>>>>people actually feel that they are bad or wrong when they are not. So
>they
>>>>are driven to make up for that. I've been there. Of course I know better
>>>>now. And I am thinking of how to use this knowledge to get women.
>>Sometimes
>>>>when talking to them if they say something slight I will turn and step
>>away
>>>>from them. This helps to shift the balance of power.
>>>>
>>>>Generaly: I went to the "Whole Life Expo" here in Atlanta, and two
things
>>>>happened: 1. I went to a great workshop given by a man nammed David
>>Deida
>>>>on "Sexual Spiritually," and I highly recommend checking him out! He
has
>>>>some information that really applies to the attractiveness of a Claude.
>>>Or,
>>>>how to have Claude's attrativeness without being a Jerk. This is sooooo
>>>>important because guys tend to put the "shell" of the jerk on to try to
>>>>imitate a "Claude's" success. This is actually counterproductive. The
>>>>successful part can easily be expressed naturally without being a jerk.
>>If
>>>>you can't hear David soon, I recommend the book "The Way of the Superior
>>>>Man" (I know the title is pretentous, but work with me). 2. I met a HB
>>at
>>>>the Expo (these places are great for Sargy activities!!! Highly
>>>>Recommended!!! Insane usage of exclamation points!!!), took her home
and
>>>>applied a little bit of what I learned at the workshop. What happened?
>>>The
>>>>high point: I told her "I am going to make passionate love to you!"
and
>>I
>>>>did! This may not be effective for everyone depending on the individual
>>>>man's "core sexuality" and the nature of his "sexual shells."
>>>>A poor summary of David Deida's theories: We are attracted to our
>>>>opposites. Like a battery, a positive and negative pole produces a
>current
>>>>(this isn't new stuff by any means, just very insightful and organized).
>>>>This means that women with the "Feminine Pole" are attracted to men with
>>>the
>>>>"Masculine pole." Many times the scoundrels have a great deal of the
>>>>masculine pole because it could be said that the masculine pole is a
part
>>>of
>>>>the most common and recognized male scoundrel model (not that there
>aren't
>>>a
>>>>lot of other very successful male scoundrels out there, like the "wimpy,
>>>>feminine" model). A man or a women can have any mixture (series of
>shells)
>>>>of the masculine or feminine poles. In general, we have a "core" pole
>>>>orientation which could be seen as being somewhere on a scale from
>totally
>>>>masculine to totally feminine.
>>>>One of his teachings is to be able to find out where are core is located
>>>and
>>>>to honor this as being the place from which we can act most comfortably.
>>>>Another major teaching is to be able to contact and express, cultivate
>and
>>>>live in the extreme of our pole. For me, this is the masculine model.
>>>>Therefore, I am learning how to express the extreme of masculinity, and
>>>this
>>>>is the point of the book, The Way of the Superior Man. The male energy
>is
>>>>very directed and goal oriented. It is focused and full of a presence.
>>>>Harrison Ford is a very good example of this energy which is so valued
>>that
>>>>people pay for exposure to it. It is cultivated at its essence by the
>>>>constant knowledge of our deaths, and by living at our edges. The force
>>is
>>>>created by the purpose that we have determined to pursue.
>>>>That line "I want to make love to you" wasn't a pickup line, it was
>>>>after we got back to my apartment. I don't think that I am the kind of
>guy
>>>>that could pull off such a line verbally in a pickup. However, I almost
>>>>always say this to a woman when I first meet her. The trick is, I look
>>her
>>>>straight in the eyes, deeply. And, I say, "I want to make love
>>>>to you." To her, but in my mind only! I see the power of this
>technique
>>>>as having the following advantages: 1. This actually does affect my
>>>>attitude, my focus and my goals. 2. This is a way of contacting the
>>>>masculine pole without acting like a Jerk.
>>>>3. This is the easiest way to control my body language» that I have
found.
>>>>Try looking in the mirror and talking to yourself (with feeling!). What
>do
>>>>you see? 4. There was a great scene in Tootsie when the HB told
Tootsie
>>>>that she just wanted a man to say, "Hey I could give you some kind of
>>line.
>>>>But I just wanted to say that I find you very interesting, and I want to
>>>>make love to you," where Tootsie (as himself who meets her at a party)
>>>>recites the lines the HB (that she said that she wanted to hear) to her
>>>>exactly. And she was insulted and she threw a glass of wine in his
face.
>>>I
>>>>guess you can see where I am getting now. She was insulted by the very
>>>>thing she wanted from a man. But imagine if he had said those same
lines
>>>>but, he said the "I want to make love to you" line to himself. She
would
>>>>have had no "reason" to be insulted and he would have said verbally
>almost
>>>>everything but only used body language» the "forward" line. This is a
way
>>>of
>>>>giving women what they want (the masculine energy) without "insulting"
>>>them.
>>>>And in general I have found that it is very difficult to express the
>>>>masculine energy verbally but, it can be easily said non-verbally and
>with
>>>>body language».
>>>>
>>>>Jerome: It's sad to hear that your friendship broke up because of his
>>>>stealing... I don't know why it is that most women usually like this
kind
>>>of
>>>>guy who steals, cheats, is never serious... Sometimes, I wonder, what
>>>>happens first, the appeal or the act? Should we do the stealing,
cheating
>>>>and never being serious first in order to get such results with women?
Or
>>>is
>>>>it that if we become appealing to women, we tend to steal, cheat and
>never
>>>>be serious?
>>>>
>>>>My comments: Claude has an infectious personality combined with his
>>>devious
>>>>nature seemed to make him irresistable.
>>>>
>>>>Gerry: (regarding Claude) That was an entertaining story... quite a
>>>>character! I wonder if you could come up with an "executive summary" of
>>>the
>>>>ingredients of this guy's strategy that we would want to model to be
>>>>successful with women. (Sounds like there is
>>>>quite a lot about him that we don't want to model!) Also, I'm wondering,
>>>>what type of women does he succeed with, and in what setting/context?
>All
>>>>women anywhere, or only certain types & in certain situations?
>>>>
>>>>My comments: I credit Claude with giving me a kick in the ass that woke
>>me
>>>>up from my naive state when I was younger. But as I was much younger
and
>>>>less aware back then, all I can remember is that the kinds of women it
>>>>worked on seemed to be any that he wanted, and that was mostly the best
>>>>looking ones around. To summarize his model and strategies could be
>>useful
>>>>but I will be talking about a better model in here shortly.
>>>>
>>>>Halbster: (regarding Anti-rapport) This reminds me of the story of the
>>guy
>>>>who asks a girl if he can sit down at her table. She shouts out "No, I
>>>>don't do that! Get away from me pervert!"
>>>>The guy leaves. Fifteen minutes later the girl walks over, apoligizes
>and
>>>>explains that she is a psychology student doing an experiment in how
>>people
>>>>behave when they are embarrased. He says loudly "Fifty dollars is way
>to
>>>>much for having sex with you" :)
>>>>
>>>>Maxin: The key, I think is the ability to BE FLEXIBLE, and persistant,
if
>>>>you give up after trying one doorway, you may not find the right one.
>>There
>>>>is really no reason not to try all of them while you are there, until
>>>>you open the right one. Not everything works all of the time, you must
>>>>build a large collection of tools, so that you a prepared when you need
>to
>>>>be. Another key area, and one I am still working on is state control,
>>>>being in the right frame of mind, is of critical importance, minimizing
>>the
>>>>lust factor, incredibly beautiful women know on some level when you are
>>>>talking to them and lusting after them, when you can be there, and
>>>>unaffected, they actually become interested in you, focus on the ability
>>to
>>>>take it or leave it AT ANY TIME, yes, so you've slept with her still
>>>>maintain the internal state that you can just walk away (regardless of
>how
>>>>beautiful she is).
>>>>
>>>>Casey: I've just been deciding recently that my honest concern and
caring
>>>>for people (even people that I don't know) is/has been a huge liability
>>>with
>>>>respect to getting laid.
>>>>
>>>>My Comments: Everything is a question of how, when, why and what you
are
>>>>doing. Claude, for example, can come across as the most concerned,
>caring
>>>>guy. He would also, from time to time, take on a very callous attitude
>>>>that, as you watched him do it, you knew he wasn't really serious about
>it
>>>>and it made people laugh. (See the Claude post and the story about the
>>>>Three Little Pigs.)
>>>>
>>>>Rick: Cancelled date frustrations. Try this during some fluff: "You
>know
>>>>what I find interesting? What I find interesting is womens' desire for
>>>>commitment in relationships... the "c" word as they say. But do you
want
>>>to
>>>>know what I think? I think commitment starts with the small things...
>>>Like
>>>>keeping small inconsequential promises... or keeping things said in an
>>>>intimate relatiosnhip, private... or keeping your word regarding dates
>>and
>>>>appointments. Do you agree? Because I, like women, find commitment a
>>very
>>>>attractive thing."
>>>>
>>>>(About being able to say anything to anyone as long as you are polite
>>>enough
>>>>about it): Someone taught me that you can say anything as long as you
>say
>>>>it with a smile.
>>>>
>>>>Casey: An idea that is extremely useful for me is the visualization
>>>>regarding rapport. Remember Titanic (the movie)? We have 2 different
>>>>visualizations of the main character. As a young, beautiful woman and as
>>an
>>>>old, graceful, friendly woman. While I was hanging out in one of my
>>>>favorite bookstores the other night, I saw the picture of a dark,
>>beautiful
>>>>woman on the cover of a book (I don't remember the exact name of the
>book,
>>>>something like, "My Thoughts Shock
>>>>Myself".) When I picked it up to look at, I found a recent photo of the
>>>>same woman - the author - on the back. It seems that they took the
>>>>photo intentionally at a distance, because she's "lost her looks".
These
>>2
>>>>inputs co-incided in my mind, and I've begun to visualize every woman I
>>see
>>>>as she'll look when she's 70 years old. How 'bout Audrey Hepburn?
>>>Remember
>>>>her both in "Breakfast at Tiffiny's" and her last, recent pictures
>leading
>>>>charity-work? The KEY, is to just deal with every woman as a woman, yet
>>>>with complete disregard for her looks. Now, this will help with
>attitude,
>>>>state control, tonality, etc., right?
>>>>
>>>>Kenny: For me, the biggest revelation that Speed Seduction» has brought
>me
>>>>is that women CAN be seduced by mere mortals such as myself. Previously
>if
>>>I
>>>>desired some woman, my notion would be that I would have to sell my soul
>>to
>>>>the devil to bed her. Where previously my impression had been that a
wide
>>>>chasm the size of the Grand Canyon separate me from my seduction
>fantasy,
>>>I
>>>>now realize that
>>>>is more like a small ditch which you can find ways to jump over with
some
>>>>effort. This change in attitude is crucial for if you imagine that
>>>>something is unattainable, of course it is. Another revelation is that
>>>>seduction techniques exist to provide a better chance of success and
they
>>>>can be learned. My most useful technique is not even a technique, it is
>>>>merely the perception that if you want to connect
>>>>with a woman, don't talk to her about work, economy, politics, sports or
>>>>other such stuff. You can talk about those until you're blue in the face
>>>and
>>>>over several months and you'll still be just friends. No, talk to woman
>>>>about emotive subjects like relationship, family, dreams, fantasies, sex
>>>and
>>>>they respond much better. I've been able to connect with women by just
>>>>talking about emotive subjects without any recourse to special tonality,
>>>>embedded commands or patterns.
>>>>It is possible to bring up sex in a conversation with great effect.
Women
>>>>are just as interested in sex as men (another revelation!). But one
>should
>>>>build some rapport first or have some pre-existing rapport. When
bringing
>>>up
>>>>the subject, speak naturally and look her in the eye. Do not hem, haw,
>>look
>>>>away and generally feel uncomfortable because she will take her cue
from
>>>>you. Also, if you have rapport and you go into another state, she will
>>>>follow so take the lead. I've found that saying few words and going into
>a
>>>>state of arousal (try imagining you and her doing things…) is more
>>>>effective than saying a lot of sexual stuff delivered unemotionally.
>>>>
>>>>Could it be that some powerful natural seducers like Claude and Max have
>>>>what is called 'animal magnetism'? Their success may have less to do
with
>>>>techniques than with their state of being. As you've mentioned, copying
>>>>their techniques does not bring the same success, strangely what worked
>>for
>>>>them falls flat when used by ordinary men. Also, most of the time they
>>>>didn't need to use any techniques. I once had a friend who is something
>>>like
>>>>that. He had no repertoire of techniques, he was just himself. Yet women
>>he
>>>>met were attracted to him like a magnet. Once he checked into a hotel
and
>>>>the cashier walked naked into his room. He was certainly not sarging
her.
>>>He
>>>>was also a happily married man who to my knowledge never took advantage
>of
>>>>the female interest and had no noteworthy character defects. What is
>>this
>>>>animal magnetism? It could be the psyche, a sub-conscious process or an
>>>>attitude. Perhaps we can induce it in ourselves by proper affirmations.
I
>>>>for one believe that people can connect with each other at the
>>>sub-conscious
>>>>level and what we observe at the conscious level is not
>>>>the full story.
>>>>
>>>>J': I VERY frequently start to respond to things women say that can
>>>>be turned into a sexually related comment...like they say something that
>>>has
>>>>a certain kind of ambiguity that can be used to turn it slightly
>>>>sexual. (ie. they say whatever and I respond with something like oh yah
>>I'd
>>>>love to just, OH sorry my mind started to wander there for a sec!) I say
>>it
>>>>in an obviously just being funny and cute way, but it gets their mind
>>going
>>>>in that direction too.
>>>>Then i can transition into sexual stuff anyway. Works like a charm.
>>>>
>>>>John: (On giving a woman a big reputation of being responsible so she
>>would
>>>>respect appointments, returning phone calls, etc.) Bro Lee uses a
version
>>>of
>>>>this already. He would say something about knowing she was the kind of
>>>>person who had enough integrity to . I use it as an
>>>>intuition thing... "I have an intuition that you are the kind of person
>>who
>>>>respects integrity. I respect that too...and its a most attractive
trait
>>>>about you. I'm not sure how my intuition knows this about you, whether
>>its
>>>>how you speak or how you carry yourself...do you know?" (The question
>>>begs
>>>>validation of her trait...Cialdini calls it commitment. Mark calls it
>>>>affirmation. All I know is that it works.)
>>>>
>>>>(On Why Aren't You Married at Your Age Questions) I respond with..."No
>>>woman
>>>>has managed to convince me yet that being
>>>>married would make my life better." (Said with a a smile) Its an open
>>>>ended challenge. About half the time, it makes me look
>>>>like arrogant beyond belief and the other half, just not easily
>>>>satisfied. Half the time, it gets sneers and the other half, a
>>>>good giggle. Most of the time, it works to my advantage.
>>>>
>>>>(On Saying Anything as Long As You Are Polite) Acting a little
embarassed
>>>>with a "I'm not sure how to say this..." paces any negative reaction
>>pretty
>>>>well. Like: "You said something
>>>>that got me thinking...um, and, um, I'm not sure how to say this...
>>>>but do you know that moment just before you um.....um...
>>>>arrive. I just wonder sometimes how wonderful it would feel if
>>>>we could hang onto that moment for hours instead of moments...
>>>>maybe we'd have fewer wars or something....do you think?"
>>>>
>>>>Elroy: Your post on Claude and Max was very informative. Thanks! I'm
>>>still
>>>>trying to work out why most natural seducers seems to be more of a
ratbag
>>>>than anything else. If we can extract their metaprograms and beliefs,
>and
>>>>keep them contextualized with regards to seduction, then we may be able
>to
>>>>be honest, decent guys who are ALSO successful with the women we like.
>>>>
>>>>Generaly: I have been experimenting with just getting out of the way
the
>>>>natural forces of sex. This has been very simple, and effective for me.
I
>>>>haven't stopped using Speed Seduction», I just use it in a very
>>>>relaxed manner. Kind of "off-hand." In general, I have found that the
>more
>>>I
>>>>keep my mouth shut, the more I am getting laid. The women are doing the
>>>work
>>>>for me!
>>>>
>>>>My Comments: I think there is a lot to learn about what is "unspoken,"
>or
>>>>that which the other person reads into your behaviour.
>>>>If you know how to convey the right message, it seems that people will
>>>>complete the action for you.
>>>>
>>>>Zach: I tend to focus on the aspect of romance not seduction. Women can
>>>>smell a horny man a million miles away. Use a less aggressive approach
>and
>>>>go for shorter leading states...that eventually lead to your desired
>>>result.
>>>>I have found that being able to USE SMALL TALK and not some pickup line
>>>>tends to work better in clubs. It has to be good small talk though. Like
>>an
>>>>environmental pace/lead! Women are innately great at using their
>intuition
>>>>to pickup men's bullshit! This is also why congruence is suggested.
>>>>This is some of the best advice I can give you... and it's a way
>to...look
>>>>at every instance with a woman... Robert MacDonald taught me this and
>it's
>>>>also in more detail in Frogs into Princes:
>>>>1) Determine what you want
>>>>2) Determine how you will know when you get it
>>>>3) Determine what will be in your way to get what you want
>>>>Sit for a spell...take my suggestion in...and really THINK ABOUT IT!
Now,
>>>>use...YOUR UNCONSCIOUS...Mind to determine all of this...and MAKE IT
>>>>CONGRUENT ... with how you act on the
>>>>outside!
>>>>
>>>>Nathalie: (Regarding Max) It is a very interesting story...
>>>>It deals with the different points of view of the word 'seduction',
>>between
>>>>people in general and men and women in particular! here it is more
>dealing
>>>>with 'agression'... I know a lot of women who would run away from Max,
he
>>>>doesn't seem to respect himself so much (the speed in the process), he
>>>seems
>>>>to treat every woman the same as long as they look good (who likes to be
>>>>treated as a number?) and has not a lot of tact (pay for diner if he
will
>>>>sleep with a woman)...
>>>>I can assure you that, specially in Europe, he would have a very hard
>time
>>>>dating!...
>>>>
>>>>George: I now typically define the specific and honest terms of my
>>>>expectations before entering into any encounter or relationship.
>>>>
>>>>John: Before Speed Seduction», I was into the woman at a bar, doing
pretty
>>>>well, overall, and he come up (he knew me vaguely), and says, "John,
John
>>>my
>>>>good friend John...could you introduce me to the beautiful
>woman...because
>>>I
>>>>am sooooo shy, and she is so beautifull......" takes her hand and
kisses
>>>>the back of it, and melts her right there. I walked away from the
>>>>situation, mostly because no one had ever had the balls to do that to
me.
>>>>
>>>>As always, your comments are greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>=================================================
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