The Top Pickup Artist Forum On The Internet: Fast Seduction 101

<< newsletter archive home

fast seduction 101 promotion section

If you haven’t already visited the   ASF forum or Player Guide web board, now would be a good time to do so… Don’t forget to this site! Fast Seduction 101 now has a product review section.

They didn’t expect me to bow and scrape
Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:54:55 -0400

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Kenrick Cleveland will be in Austin in January.  If you could have interest
in meeting him, contact him through his website, www.maxpersuasion.com.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Fingaz:
Hey Clifford. I came across this site and haven't had the time to read but a
quarter of it. It's thick with material and most importantly, it's FREE!
Forget
all those pay sites, let's pass this on to the guys on the list and let 'em
stretch their dollars

http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Stu/skogan/manual/manualpage2.html

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Zvi: Personally, I'd get REALLY BORED by being in one "ideal" state. To me,
part of being human is undergoing a huge array of states, including,
sometimes,
"negative" ones. Experiencing pain and suffering is part of being human.
Struggle is an essential element of the human condition.

Every state has a negative to it. I think that's undeniable. Personally
I'd vote for the state of AWARENESS as the most desirable, but understand
that that state entails being aware of suffering and pain too.

There's another reason I don't believe in an "ideal state". Each state on
its own might not be sufficient. You have to think it terms of "clusters"
of states, where one state "activates" another.

For example: let's say you reached an incredible state of Awareness. But
awareness on its own won't lead you anywhere. You can be aware of
everything around you, but without the willingness and desire to act upon
it, the state is empty. So, you would need, for example, to add to
Awareness the states of Openness, Willingness and Desire to Act. And what
if your Awareness leads to a sensory overload? You would need to add a
"filter" that will allow in only so much. This will need to be linked to a
state of Balance. And what if all those states are just Serious? Wouldn't
you want to link to it a state of Fun? And what if that Awareness leads you
to some action, but you have no creativity and can't deal with new
situations... so for that you would need to link to it a state of
Creativity.
But you don't want to be TOO creative, since you might burn a "fuse" if your
mind cannot relax a bit... so we're getting back to the state of Balance..

These are just examples, but you can see how each state is not that good on
its own and needs to be linked to other states. So rather than thinking
about The ideal state, how about thinking about which STATES you want to
have, and which states will they ACTIVATE, and -- most importantly -- in
which CONTEXT do you want those states and their activations?
> Therefore
> the ideal situation would be if you could turn this state of mind on for
> evenings and weekends and not lose the focus you need for work. Any ideas
> about this?

Mark Twain already said: Make your vocation your vacation.

My Comment: Perhaps because I have been going through a lot of work-related
stress lately, this vacation thought was particularly appealing to me. I
don't think I meant to convey that this would be the only state someone
would be in (in fact, I did draw a distinction between the focused on work
state for during business hours).  I don't think anyone would disagree that
being in that "third week of vacation" state for some period of time would
be welcome.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Jerome:
> I'll bet someone here has had a date with this kind of girl, and I wonder
> how you dealt with it. My feeling is that a guy has to immediately call a
> girl on such behavior by making a move immediately and either forcing the
> girl to admit she wants sex, or forcing her to admit she was just playing
> with you. And if she was just playing with you, my guess is that now
>she'll stop. Any thoughts?

Any ideas how to force her admitting whether she want to have sex or just
playing with you without being arrogant or rude?

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Spicetrader:
>Having experienced stress for different
>reasons at different times in my life, I was thinking 'what would be the
>ideal state of mind that I would like to be in?' Of course, the first
>thought that comes to mind is that of being on vacation. But what I
>remembered is the three week vacation. If you've ever been on vacation for
>three weeks, you may have experienced, as I have, that the first week you
>are just starting to relax, the second week you really start to enjoy it,
>and the third week you don't remember where you came from. It is that
state
>of mind which I could certainly use right now but it also occurred to me
>that there is a problem with this because usually when you come back after
>being away for three weeks you return to your regular life and this state
>sooner or later reverts itself to your usual stressed out state. Therefore
>the ideal situation would be if you could turn this state of mind on for
>evenings and weekends and not lose the focus you need for work. Any ideas
>about this?

Yeah, this is a topic I have thought about a lot as well. I think the word
is 'routine'. Routine is bad. For example, when I was new to this I was
really enthusiastic, could approach anyone and had no self doubt
whatsoever...and then with time it became a routine...after months...the
enthusiasm died and so did the creativity..slowly but consistently getting
more lazy to do something about it. I can relate to your 'holiday' state,
basically what you are talking about I think is a state where you have the
power to reinvent yourself because you have no such things as the common
everyday anchors like your own place, somebody's voice....and so on. Bottom
line is that when you manage to do new things and keep the change going you
will never experience a dull state where you find yourself trapped in
because you keep doing new things such as social activity, meeting new
people and/or moving out to another place, maybe even a different country.
If you do the same things over and over again it will become routine and I
personally have a hard time being enthusiastic about a routine.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Bjorn:
>Horn Dog (You can trust me, I'm ugly): A thought for your perusal...
>Often I see some really hot HB's hanging out with guys that look like the
>missing link, or escapees from Richard Simmons U. with a few extra ounces.
>It used to really amaze me how this would happen, but now I think I
>understand.
>
>It all has to do with the bitch shield...which automatically goes up with
>lightning speed whenever a smooth-stud-PUA-player approaches. Many chyks,
>I've noticed, would rather be boned by ugly or geeky guys because in some
>way they feel the guy is safe, or they feel comfortable with him and to a
>certain degree (they think) they can trust him.
>
>I've noticed the same thing with guys who are attached or married. Chyks
>get
>hot for 'em, because they can't have them, and (they think) these guys are
>safe because they're attached.
>
>Granted much of S.S. is based on the Alpha Male» frame...but I suspect
there
>is much that can be said for the player who can bust a move while
*seeming*
>like a harmless AFC.
>
>To whit: "relax, you can trust me because I'm
>ugly/geeky/attached/married/ordained/drafted (or whatever) In the
meantime,
>let's be friends!" (but you know damn well you're going to lay on all your
>moves and patterns in thick layers from the very beginning). Deceptive?
>Maybe. Make your own ethics choices, of course, but worth a thought.
>
>What got me thinking on this was a passage from Norman Vincent Peale's
>"Grow
>Rich Through Peace of Mind." He relates an event where he was being
>pitched for advertising by a salesman who literally looked like a hobo,
>smelled, and left smoke and ashes all over the office. Mr. Peale relates
he
>ended up buying anyway, because there was something about the guy's
>personality that
>got to him.

I would like to comment on Horn Dog's posting about HB's hanging with guy's
who look like the missing link. Based on my observations, I see this only
very, very rarely. I live in Kitchener, Ontario (near Toronto). Maybe the
females out here watch too many Gap commercials because 99.9% of the time
when I see HB's (> 8/10 [ref. Elizabeth Hurley as an 8.5/10])they are with
guys who look like GQ models. Also, it seems the younger the female, the
more she is into getting good looking guys (or "hotties" which is what they
call them around here....).

Also, contrary to what Horn Dog says, my observations are that the HB's
"bitch shield" goes up when an unconfident, shy or ugly guy approaches. The
smooth-stud-PUA-player's have no problem. Isn't that our goal here in SS;
to become smooth-stud-PUA-player's???

I also would like to say I agree with Horn Dog's observation on married guys
having better luck attracting HB's. I think this is because married guys
are already validated as being desirable to a woman. Also, an HB can flirt
with a married guy where as a single guy might take flirting as an
invitation for something more and seem too eager.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Flyer:
There could very well be something to Horn Dog's comment about chyks and why
they put up their "bitch shield" around the PUA's, and the more attractive
guys. This, I think is also a two way street.
For example, years ago I was buying a second-hand car from somebody in my
town where I live, and for some reason we got talking about chyks in
Fairfield County. He felt the same way as I did regarding women; it seems
like ones that are attractive and hot looking are jaded and parasitic, and
full of themselves. Inversely, the lesser attractive ones are nicer, more
respectful, sweet, and non game playing. He told me that at one point in his
life he had decided that he had it with attractive women, so he married a
pig just so he wouldn't have to deal with the typical mentalities commonly
associated HB's. [ It's a good thing his wife was in the house as we had
this conversation on the street :) ]
But it is safe to assume not all HB's out there are like this. I can recall
that while attending college (New York City) I met and dated a beautiful HB
from Germany who was fashion model material. She was just stunning. When I
first saw her, I had my own "bitch shield" that I put up by thinking to
myself "Man, she must be very stuck up". Eventually I ended up introducing
myself to her anyway, and she was quite nice, hence we ended up dating
shortly thereafter.
There are two things to learn here: (1.) Just as women put up the bitch
shield to protect themselves from the men they have pre conceived ideas
about, there are those of us who have pre conceived notions about how an HB
thinks. Just be prepared that if you see a really hot HB, she could turn out
to be quite a sweet person too. (2.) Another comforting thought to all of
this is: the more put off the HB's get from the slimy PUA player approaches
of lounge lizards and more attractive guys , the more the HB's will respond
positively from the sincere approach of the average looking guys.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Sean:
> Here's my thought for the week: Having experienced stress for different
> reasons at different times in my life, I was thinking 'what would be the
> ideal state of mind that I would like to be in?' Of course, the first
> thought that comes to mind is that of being on vacation. But what I
> remembered is the three week vacation. If you've ever been on vacation
for
> three weeks, you may have experienced, as I have, that the first week you
> are just starting to relax, the second week you really start to enjoy it,
> and the third week you don't remember where you came from. It is that
state
> of mind which I could certainly use right now but it also occurred to me
> that there is a problem with this because usually when you come back
after
> being away for three weeks you return to your regular life and this state
> sooner or later reverts itself to your usual stressed out state.
Therefore
> the ideal situation would be if you could turn this state of mind on for
> evenings and weekends and not lose the focus you need for work. Any
>ideas
about this?

I've been experimenting with taking myself into trance (counting backwards
from 100 to 1...learned from Silva Mind Control...), so what would happen if
you go into trance... then imagine yourself after 2 weeks of wonderful
vacation...? Anchor it, then whenever you need it again, just trigger the
anchor...!  Also, this work/play dichotomy situation, I usually NEVER bring
any of the work home (helps that it's a grunt job..) in any way emotionally
or mentally, I just decide NOT to.  After I step through that door at work,
I'm myself again, I revert back to _me_, not _work_ Sean.
> Horn Dog (You can trust me, I'm ugly): A thought for your perusal...
>
> Granted much of S.S. is based on the Alpha Male» frame...but I suspect
>there  is much that can be said for the player who can bust a move while
>*seeming* like a harmless AFC.

I disagree with the statement above of the Alpha Male» frame with respect to
S.S.
I believe it to be more of the: "You are... a wonderful opportunity, an
undiscovered adventure, that _if_ the woman is smart and decisive enough to
join you, both of you would have the most amazing time...!"   The alpha male»
frame comes up when you are NOT the 'nice guy' because you're able to
express your desires as a man, not apologize for it, and to go for what you
want, when you see it, which happens to be her.
> To whit: "relax, you can trust me because I'm
> ugly/geeky/attached/married/ordained/drafted (or whatever) In the
meantime,
> let's be friends!" (but you know damn well you're going to lay on all
your
> moves and patterns in thick layers from the very beginning). Deceptive?
> Maybe. Make your own ethics choices, of course, but worth a thought.

I believe it was: Napolean Hill --V,
not Norman...
> What got me thinking on this was a passage from Norman Vincent Peale's
"Grow
> Rich Through Peace of Mind." He relates an event where he was being
> pitched for advertising by a salesman who literally looked like a hobo,
> smelled, and left smoke and ashes all over the office. Mr. Peale relates
he
> ended up buying anyway, because there was something about the guy's
> personality that
> got to him.

In my personal reflecting, and contemplations... I've been reading posts
from the SS list, and one of the posters had mentioned the idea of reading
all the messages at once, if you have a backlog of them all, so I've taken
to that habit as well, which it has served me well, you really get to gain
the mindset of the seduction master-artist... so one suggestion is to read
all of the posts, and make notes of points of them while you read... I've
gained tremendously from this practice...now, to put to practice what you
understand in mind...

What I've noticed about the mindset, is that it is similar in many ways, on
different levels, to the material in this set of books I've been reading and
studying as well...they may be construed as spiritual/religious material:
Conversations with God (CWG), and all the pertaining works.
- We speak of creating/installing the mindset of the artist, CWG speaks of
creating the grandest vision of the greatest version of WHO YOU ARE.
- we speak of not supplicating/begging/pleading to women, and it may be
further extended to life and the universe, to anybody, anything...
CWG speaks of not supplicating as well, rather, we should _command_ the
universe, life, god, to create the conditions that we desire, to express Who
we are
- there are moments in the additional works, about processes and exercises,
where I swear that they were quoting directly from a NLP source... the
exercises that were stated for further creation of oneself, could have been
switched from NLP, Anthony Robbins, Hypnosis change-work...
CWG gives further depth of understanding, of directing one's consciousness,
and indeed, another's (i.e.. women's) in not just the realm of seduction,
but of the realm of life...it makes more profound, for me, the knowledge,
understanding, and wisdom of seduction, and makes it applicable to living
life as well!   If anybody is interested in more of the above, I'd be happy
and honoured to gather the insights I've come up with and post them, as well
as learning from the readers of this posts, of what you think of the ideas
expressed above...Thanks!

My Comment:  I am very interested in reading more of your insights, so
please send them.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Divine (Daddy's little hypnoslut):
Ok, this cracked me up with a capitol C!! I understand where you are getting
your ideas but you are WAY off base on this one.

Let me explain something, as a former hot babe who refused to date hot
looking guys. It's not their "safe" quality we care about. I mean for Pete's
sake, all guys wanna get the bone on, there isn't a "safe" one amongst you
in
that category. And we run the risk of the less attractive being less
experienced.

I had a policy (after dating hot guys and models) never to date anyone
really good looking, for ONE simple reason. Good looking guys are jerks.
Period. Good looking men get fussed over and handed special privileges right
from the getgo, woman throw themselves at them and let them get away with
garbage. They come to expect you to abase yourself at the feet of their
grandeur just because they are. Dating a good looking guy is the emotional
equivalent of being a servant, and your supposed to be grateful to be
serving. I suppose it's not their fault, it's the woman who lets them get
away with this shit just because they are good looking that teaches them to
be
this way. NO accountability.

So smart chicks will not date good looking guys as a standard, or until they
find out more. My hubby/daddy is a gorgeous man and it took him 3 years to
convince me he was more than a pretty face. >3
dated nice sweet men who were a little too tall, a little awkward, plain,
etc.
because they were NICE to me. That's it fellows, that's the big mysterious
secret..they were nice. They had confidence and weren't kowtowing to me
either..that's important, too. But they didn't expect me to bow and scrape
either..and I'm sorry but the idea of being "grateful" to be dating someone
is stupid and insulting. Nor do I want anyone "grateful" to date me. These
guys on the whole weren't expecting much and so when we connected on an
intellectual or social level it was pleasant surprise on both sides. NO
expectations and I got to know who they were. Be yourself and don't be "on
the make" all the time. We can smell you when you're on the make
guys...believe it or not. Relax and act like a human instead of a predatory
animal and we'll respond.

Well, that was a girl's eye view on the whole "dating ugly/geeks" issue.
Take
it or leave it as you wish. Just sharing a thought w/you.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

INFORMATION ABOUT THIS NEWSLETTER ARCHIVE:
This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to cli***f@cl***.com^{[ ? ]} and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction^»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting http://www.seduction.com/.  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at http://www.fastseduction.com/cliff/.

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

DISCLAIMERS:
This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the fastseduction.com webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of fastseduction.com.  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

>> back to top