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Everyone on Sisonpyh and Mystery
Mon, 25 Dec 2000 11:57:01 -0500

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Optimus:
Mystery: As I was reading this I was about to debate the compliment thing
but this compliment is very subtle and evokes curiousity.  I like it.
However, consider NEVER saying EXCUSE ME.  EVER.  Instead, say HI.  Then
pause.

Optimus:  I'm curious Mystery, why?  To show that you don't have to be
courteous?  Politeness doesn't apply to you?  Or is it because you think
it's supplicating to mouth the words "Excuse me?"  What, alpha males don't
have to be courteous?  Try telling that to Rick H.

My Comment:  While I don't particularly think that there is anything wrong
with saying "Excuse me," I do think that this does bring up a subtle point
that may be overlooked by many.  And that is that, similar to great
literature, EVERY word that you say is important and conveys your power,
control or lack thereof.  Paying attention to this level of detail is the
beginnings of great success in everything you do.

Mystery: Fair.  Here is my mindset: I like to do whatever it takes to make
them like me and then I have the option to continue this into a relationship
if I so desire.  If not, I learned from the experience PLUS have a pawn for
the future.  I qualify them AFTER I have their #.  Besides, you will
appreciate a girl more when they already like you, right?  I don't qualify
them over COFFEE (coffee - sitting at a cafe - is AFC bigtime).  I qualify
them after good Kino (that way I know I COULD fuck her and if I don't I know
it's MY CHOICE and not actually HER CHOICE and MY EXCUSE.)  I like to WIN
even if I don't FUCK her.  There is also something very cool about having a
girl like you and you saying NO to HER.  Do this in front of your next
target and BAM you are into your next set with awesome social proof.

Optimus:  Why is coffee-sitting at a cafe- AFC??  I don't get it.  I thought
it was the frame that determined whether or not something was AFC.  Taking a
girl on a date and buying her dinner and taking her to a movie and hoping
"Please like me, like me, I'll do whatever it takes to make you like me,
I'll buy you dinner, roses.....like me..."  That's AFC.  Because you're
trying to win her approval.  She has the power.  And, she gets to qualify
you.  But if YOU are qualifying HER, and you don't give a flying fuck
whether or not she likes you, if she does, fine, great for the both of you,
if not, oh well, HER LOSS.  As long as the proper frame has been set, why
should it matter where you go?  As long as it doesn't trigger the
traditional dating mechanisms? Dinner, flowers, movies, etc.

My Comment:  I happen to think that coffee is a good thing to do.  Cheap and
quick if it's no good (I have some great quick escapes for this, if anyone
is interested), and, since I usually have them meet me for coffee near where
I live it is both convenient and efficient (as in, "let's go for a walk"
when we're done, and I walk them back to my place!).

Mystery: Horrible.  Granted this phase is the most difficult to get
experience on because you can't get to this 'til you get successes with
previous phases.  The failures in this are: you didn't suggest something to
share (something to do - never coffee) on the # (or email) close.  This
failure will fuck up the chances of her wanting to get together (blurring).
Saying nice meeting you if to reaffirm that you JUST met.  Instead, go into
a topic of discussion as if you were the best of buds (just think what you
would email reply to someone you already knew well).  Asking what they are
up to this week sucks.  You know why - it leads them nowhere.  Instead, YOU
demonstrate your ability to take control by offering her opportunities to
get together.  "I need to pick up something at the mall.  I'm going to swing
by and pick you up so you can keep me company.  If you have anything that
needs to be done then we can share our chores."  This is SO MUCH better for
obvious reasons.  This cup of coffee thing is done SO FUCKING OFTEN (asked
of the girl by all the other guys in the past) that with it comes baggage
... memories of boring chats with people they didn't know.

Optimus:  I like this idea, but considering that most young HB's are in
school and older ones most likely work during the week, how do you engage
this?  Just wait until Saturday or Sunday when they'll most likely be off?
How do you do this?  Maybe in the evening?  I think this is a great idea.
Could you please go into a little more detail about this?

My Comment:  I do think that this has a lot of merit, don't get me wrong.
Taking them along like a friend to go pick up some gloves or milk or
whatever reframes the whole experience for them and puts you in control.

Mystery: That is why inviting them to join you for a car ride to somewhere
(to get some shit done) is so powerful.  It's open ended.  You are in charge
and can choose where to take it as it goes.  Nothing like talking in a car
to trap a girl in a conversation.  Play music and blast it to make her FEEL.
Drive funky if you desire (give her the wheel and pretend to close your
eyes - while secretly having one eye open), head to the mall ... possibly
choose to visit a friend quickly ... even a sister.  She sees your life as
it IS - builds trust quickly.  At the mall, a sit down for food is natural
... but to exit a "shit, I got a page - my friend needs me to babysit - I
gotta drop you off."  or better ... "can you get home ok?"

Optimus:  "Can you get home ok?"  Are you serious?  You must explain this.
This actually works?  Just leave them there??

Mystery: That is similar to the PHONE RULES that are given during the #
  close.  "When I call you, remember my name and act pleased or I won't call
again.  Fair?  And in return Ill treat you the same."  Making a girl wait is
something I have done NUMEROUS times if they had pissed me off for
something.  If a girl was late for me, then I RECIPROCATE and make sure not
to apologize.  I act like it was no biggie.  "Hey.  I underestimated the
distance to here."

Optimus:  I like the concept of this phone rules thing, but are you sure you
really want them to "ACT" like they are pleased?  Wouldn't it give you more
leverage if you were honest with her and she was honest with you?  It's
almost like saying, "When I fuck you tonight you better ACT like you like
it, otherwise I'll never fuck you again."  Why would you have to threaten
her?  That's called BULLYING.

My Comment:  You can get away with murder if you do it with a smile.  I
think this is an extension of the "cocky but funny" attitude.  Being
unpredictable and reversing roles (usually the woman makes the guy wait) are
very effective.

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Halbster:
> 1) THE INITIAL APPROACH
>  This one is simple. I've tried every goddamn fucking thing that
>  I've ever heard. and a few have worked for me. Here they are.
>  If I'm in an environment that has a lot of people, and I'm with
>  a friend, I like to start by asking a woman for her 'opinion' on
something.
>  Here's how it happens. first of all, I keep my eyes open for current
affairs
>  and interesting trivia that involves gender differences and tension.
>  This makes for amazing conversation openers with hot intelligent women.
>  My latest favorite: "Hey, let me ask you a question. My friend and I
were
>  talking about something, and I think we need a female perspective."
(This
is
>  a killer, by the way.

Although I recommend Sisonpyh's approach, especially for intelligent woman,
here is another variation.  Get them talking by asking a question about a TV
show that everyone watched when growing up.  i.e. What was the name of
George Jetson's Boss?
> So I like to meet them for a cup of tea
>  and talk for a bit, or even let that lead to a bite to eat sometimes. So
my
>  mindset is that I'M THERE TO QUALIFY THEM. Not the other way
>  around.

Talk about small things making the difference...Note that he drinks tea.  He
will not leave with coffee breath, or coffee stains on his teeth.  Tea will
also give him better tonality than coffee.  It is more nutritious, and it
probably won't give him caffeine jitters.  A choice like peppermint, or
Moroccan mint is smart because it keeps your breath fresh, and digestion
good.  I believe Bishop is also a tea drinker.
>  Mystery: I hear what you're saying.  Thing is, while asking for the # is
not
>  going to get great results, LEADING her to give her # and then ALSO
getting
>  her email is the thing to do.  "This was very good.  It's unfortunate we
>  have a time constraint as I've got to get going.  What steps must we
take
to
>  continue this?"

Although "What steps must we take" can be effective in other situations, it
is out of character for Sisonphy.  Remember his character is the pursued
dude.
> "Excuse me.  I noticed you when I
>  walked in, and I had to take a second to find out what you were like."
or
>  something equally plausible sounding.

A great variation on this if they have some interesting fashion thing that
you can comment on is "I had to meet a person that would think to wear...."
And, if you have tastes like Rick you can probably use this to work the
bisexual angle.  i.e. I figured that someone with your taste would be more
adventurous/sensual than the average person here.  yada yada...
> Sisonpyh: So what's the character that they want? Good question.
>  I have a good friend who's the best I've ever seen at picking up women
in
>  bars and having sex with them that night. Now, I do better getting
numbers
>  and closing the deal later. But this guy just kicks ass. And his whole
>  mindset towards meeting women is to be "Cocky and funny" (his words). My
>  opinion is that women are turned off by arrogant men. UNLESS. they're
DAMN
>  FUNNY. This magic combination will attract women like this list
>  attracts guys who don't get laid. I'm following in my buddy's footsteps.
>  I'll try to summarize my character for you: "I know that this chick is
>  secretly trying to pick up on me. I'm going to play hard to get, make
fun
of
>  her, be indifferent towards her, and generally bust her balls as much as
>  possible. I know that she loves a guy that is so sarcastic that it makes
her
>  nervous, so I'm going to really keep the heat on.

One of the things that my girlfriend comments on is how I always give her
ambiguous compliments.  i.e. recently we were at a wedding.  Because the
bridesmaids all agreed on hairstyle she wore her hair up (she has long hair
down to her ass).  At one point during the nite I told her I wasn't paying
attention to something because I was busy looking at the back of her neck.
She didn't know what to make of that.
> Then, I reach over and start stroking her hair while she's talking. I
stroke
>  down at the bottom first. If she's OK with this, I take it as a sign
that
>  she's WAAYYYYY into me and is probably going to be wanting sex within 60
>  minutes (if you have any doubts, ask a woman if she'll let a guy stroke
her
>  hair while she's on his bed on the first date if she's not into him).
>
>  This is a big piece of the puzzle that I've figured out. I used to do
all
>  kinds of massages and other stuff, but I now use the simple hair stroke
>  test.
>  If they like their hair stroked, they are at VERY LEAST going to be
making
>  out with me in short order, period. I'll occasionally do a hand massage
>  here,
>  or a little neck massage, but next I pull her close to me and cuddle
with
>  her. and then land the killer.

I don't agree with some of what this guy does.  However, I want to indicate
that my disagreements are more saying "there are other ways, or this can be
made even better.  I think this guy has a brilliant workable system and
everything he wrote should work.  Regarding his hair stroke, I think it is
best to calibrate/observe a woman and sense the right place/way to touch
her.  Be flexible and observant.  Most woman will give you many clues as to
how they want to be touched.  Often noticing where they touch you,
especially where they touch you first is a good clue. There are many ways
you can touch a woman.
> NEVER
>  give a woman exactly what she asks for. EVER!

I don't totally agree with this.  Yes, it is good for making you a challenge
and giving you the power.  However, there is a better way.  Someone who can
sometimes say "Yes" becomes an even greater challenge and more powerful.
Random "Yes" keeps her hopeful and makes you more unpredictable.  It also
allows you to say "Yes" when it would also please you.  Plus, you can use
the "yes" to shape and reward her behavior.  Do the "Yes" with behaviors you
want to encourage.  However, make the "yes" a rare and special prize.  I
once dated a woman for about a year before giving her flowers.  Her father
gave her flowers every week.  The week her father was on vacation I gave her
flowers.  You can pick your moments.
>  I've now learned that if I lean back and kind of almost don't touch them
at
>  all on purpose, it creates this tension, so that when I do actually
touch
>  them, they respond powerfully. Milton Erickson calls this 'Building
Response
>  Potential.'

There are some great variations on this tactic, including giving them a
little and then taking it away.  One of my favorites is to let them see you
give someone else a little quick supermassage.  Then, you refuse to do it
for them.  Tell them not yet.  Tell them it is something you only share with
a
few special people.  Tell them No because "You know, once I massage you it
is going to lead to more."  Or "That is a privilege that must be earned."
Or,
"Maybe, that will be your reward one day after you do something special for
me."
> But another important distinction that I've made is to never be too
happy.
>  Women are intrigued when you stay very calm, almost unaffected. The real
>  hotties are used to having men get nervous when talking to them, and
they
>  can
>  sense that you're different when you stay very cool, and calmly talk to
>  them.
>  NEVER let them sense that you're interested. (By the way, all these
rules
>  are
>  different if you're trying to get married. this stuff is for getting
LAID)

I don't agree with this part.  Yes, being calm is definitely helpful.
However, I think being able to be a happy fun loving guy with a sense of
adventure can also work very well.  Being the type of guy who can appreciate
the types of experiences that woman would describe as sensual (not sexual),
pampering, nurturing, i.e. massage with aromatherapy, and relaxing music.
> I decided recently to start studying comedy, as I've found that women
>  respond to it better than any other thing in the whole goddamn entire
>  universe. So I
>  did a bunch of reading on the internet to find the best books, and I
bought
>  about 5 or 6 of them. One book that I'm reading right now called "Comedy
>  Writing Secrets" by Helitzer made a great point... He said that most of
>  being

Comedy is a great tool.  Steve Allen wrote some helpful books including "How
to be Funny" and "The Funny Men"   In the Funny Men he analyzes/models
famous comedians.  Gene Perret's books are also excellent.  His book
Successful Standup Comedy is more than just a manual for standup comedy.  It
is an excellent guide to being successful at life.  Also, check out Zen and
the Art of Comedy.  Many standup comedy clubs, acting schools and adult
learning centers (i.e. Learning Annex, Seminar Center, Learning Connection,
Learning Center, etc.) offer courses in standup comedy.  These courses are
also probably great places to meet HB's.

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Leon:
> how to be. Huge difference. (Am I saying that you can't get laid if you
> wear Nike's and have fucked up hair? No. But remember, a blind pig can
find
> an occasional truffle.)

I don't know... I asked many girls the question about clothing and they all
say pretty much the same - nice clothing could be cool but it doesn't make
much difference. The most important is to look *sexy*.
Majority of beautiful girls I see in Toronto don't hang out/go out with guys
in "shiny shoes," etc. but with guys who wear sneakers and cargoes.
My ex-wife says that this "proper" look (shiny shoes, shirts, etc.) is
incredibly boring. (She's 10, getting hit on constantly, 31 and people think
she's 18.)
We once drove with a friend of mine and his girlfriend and we passed "Indian
Motorcycle" - a club where people dress up, etc. There was a crowd of guys
dressed "properly" outside. I asked her if she liked them. "What are you
crazy?" - she said, - "they look so boooring and asexual, they all look the
same". She's a 10, 22, used to be a model, when we're in clubs everybody
just shuts up and stares at her, and guys hit on her like crazy. Her
boyfriend wears sneakers, T-shirts, wide pants, etc, and he's a raver-type
guy. And I have many more of such stories.
> I bought this trick torch lighter that makes a huge flame. looks
> like a
> welding flame. So what do you think happened the first time I went out
with
> it?
> Right. got asked for a light. and fucking freaked the chick out. Nice.)

When girls in clubs ask me for a lighter (or anything, like gum, etc.) I
always say "It will cost you a kiss."
Most girl immediately gladly kiss me on a chick. Some of them just say
"Sure!" and kiss me on the lips. If I feel that the girl is receptive but
intends to kiss me on a cheek I stop her and say "It's not a kiss". Then I
get the kiss on the lips.
If the girl looks indecisive, I just turn my cheek to her and point the
finger. They always kiss then.
Few girls refused to kiss me. I said "Sorry, baby, I'm greedy" and she
didn't
get any lighter, gum or whatever. They smiled and said "It's OK" with full
understanding that I have a right not to give them anything if they don't
kiss me.

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Mystery:
Thank you Ross for the seminar invite.  I will definitely take you up on
that when I return to LA.  I look forward to meeting you.

On Ross' going for coffee: While the COFFEE THING is stereotypical, I agree
that in LA it's a part of people's lifestyle.  It's not difficult to see
people chatting naturally at any one of hundreds of places where you can
shoot the shit outside and have a tea or whatnot.  HOWEVER: In other cities
this is NOT the case.  In Toronto, cafe's are not particularly cool.  More
like donut shops and not like the restaurants on sunset.  Also, people dress
for warmth here and that means like shit.  Wool hats and such certainly
don't
assist in motivating you to chat with a girl.  It's very different (having
lived in both places).  In LA it works (hell, even I've gotten girls in cafe
situations) but not in Toronto.  There are few targets (most are donut hags)
and it's usually teens with little money.  This is why your cafe approach
thing is invalid for so many people - the advice you give SOUNDS like it
would work (and in LA it certainly does) but in other cities it's going to
get you toothless wonders.

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Craig:
First off here is a new field tested kiss close.
(Give her tic tac and wait a few seconds.)
"You know...There are a lot of things about me you don't know."
"Like what?"
"Well, this never came up before, but I am an Indian giver...and I want my
tic tac back!"
Then take it back (with your mouth stupid :).  Damn this is too easy.

And before I forget, you guys may remember in the past (a year ago maybe?)
when Dr. Love debated me and said my kiss closes were no bueno.  You might
also remember about a month or 2 ago when Dr.Love posted to the SS list
requesting help with...you guessed it...Closing!  Isn't it ironic?  The
reason I bring this up is not to single out the good Doctor, because he is a
nice guy, but because I see this happening all of the time in every
seduction forum.  It is easy to see who has FIELD experience and who
doesn't, and I would appreciate it if from now on you on you guys would stop
wasting our time and this newsletter space with such ignorant bullshit.  I
would like to also thank those people like Ross, Mystery and Halbster who
add conductive FIELD TESTED commentary and criticism, because without it
this list wouldn't be the best seduction resource on the net.

Now on to the good stuff.

Last night I went out with my friend who has had sex with over 100 women.  I
have seen his recent chicks and pics of his ex gf's and believe you me the
girls are gorgeous.  And I'm picky.  His deal is to be brutally honest.  He
ran into some porn stars and he was talking to them in a club, and they
tried to tell him that they only did women.  He told them they were full of
shit and probably did anals all day long, and that he thought that they were
used material and therefore digesting and off limits.  They ate it up and
tried to prove to him all night that they were "normal" chicks.  He thought
they were whores and he didn't want to touch them (he has been to the clinic
THREE times!) but I guarantee you he could have fucked both of them if he
wanted to.
Another time he was at a club (forgive me if I already told you this story)
and there was an AMAZING girl in there that stood way above the rest.  This
chick was shooting guys down HARD and acting super stuck up.  She even
rejected a semi famous singer.  My friend went up to her after that and
said, "Excuse me but I was just wondering why you are such a bitch.  These
people here are trying to be nice to you and you are acting like a spoiled
fucking brat.  Most good looking people are thankful for their looks...You
should be happy to be good looking, but you use that to be mean to people.
That's really fucked up."  She said, "Well, I may be a bitch but you're an
asshole."  He said, "Whatever" and walked away.  Later he saw her as he was
going into the bathroom and she said, "There's the asshole."  He said,
"There's the bitch" and went in and handled business.  Guess who was waiting
for him when he came out?  She grabbed him, threw him up against the wall
and frantically made out with him.  Then she invited him back to her house,
but as they were leaving the semi famous singer yelled out, "Make sure she
swallows!" and she tried to kill him and got arrested.  But you see my point
:)

My Comment: So he never did get back to her place, and spent the night
waiting for Daddy to bail her out of jail, right?

Craig (Continues):  The most important thing that this guy taught me is not
to be whiny.  I can not stress the importance of this enough.  How many of
you guys have lost a hot girl because the girl flaked/didn't return a phone
call and you called her on her bullshit?  Cliff, I know you lost a really
hot one a few months back when she flaked on you.  I remember your response
to her and it was AWESOME...you made her look like a stuck up immature women
who has no respect for others.  Great stuff, but what happened?

My Comment:  I am still in touch with her!  I got some advise from David and
took a hot chick with me to visit her at the bar she works at!  Then acted
indifferent to her.  Went back to the bar with a friend last week (hadn't
seen or heard from her in a couple months now) and she gave me her cell numb
er and email address without me asking for it.  My friend Eric met her
independently and flipped over her, but had no chemistry with her.  He heard
that she's very easy and she told me she was going to the Caribbean this
week for a vacation (some guy called her up and offered her a trip, all
expenses paid -- what do you think that involves??).  So I am not so keen
anymore for this little whore (she's too much like me!).

Craig (Continues):  She is gone.  Why?  Because when you called her on her
BS, she knew that YOU CARED that she flaked, and that you were really
looking forward to hanging out with her.

My Comment: Not exactly.  I thanked her for saving me the usual grief and
letting me know up front what kind of a person she was.  After giving her
shit, I left it in her court to call me and she didn't and I didn't.  So she
couldn't think that I was all that hung up on her, because I never called
her again.

Craig (Continues):  The chase was over.  Now what exactly to do when flaked
on depends on the situation.  The reality of it is that you don't know what
happened, and she may or may not have had a great reason for flaking.  I
would treat it as such and give her a chance to explain what happened,
without sounding like I really gave a shit.  Just like I would if one of my
guy friends flaked on me.  Now, the problem here is this.  If you let people
get away with flaking and ruining your night then they will walk all over
you.  When she flaked, it really did fuck up your night because you had big
plans, so of course you were pissed off.  Fixing the problem is easy.
First, don't give them Friday night.  Second, instead of making plans to go
out, call her up and shoot the shit, then go Mystery style and tell her you
are going to mall to buy something and she should come keep you company.  If
she says no, then it's no big deal, because none of your time is lost and
you can go on with your day.  That way you give them no option for a flake
and it is a good indicator of interest.  Phil thought this was spot on and
said he does the same thing.

Today I was hanging out with Phil (the guy who dates all of those semi
famous chicks and is the biggest pimp I have ever seen or will again), and I
was surprised by some of his theories.  We were in a grocery store, and he
wanted me to approach some chick who was walking out to her car.  He said I
should just be completely honest with her and say something like, "Excuse
me...I know this may seem a little weird and you might even have a BF, but
I'm not out here very often so I probably will never see you again, and I
was wondering if you wanted to go out sometime?"  I thought this sounded
pretty AFC, and while we were debating the girl got in her car and left, but
I learned something interesting.  He said he knows that the line doesn't
sound "cool" and it would give the girl control, but he doesn't mind giving
the chick the upper hand in the beginning.   He says that things will
eventually turn around and he will be in control because that is just the
way he operates.  He said it would be impossible for things to go the wrong
way because there is no way that the girl would be his number one priority
in life.  Phil just got a job were he will meet more actresses and he plans
to hook up with Nikki Cox if he runs into her.  I hope she has a sister!
>>Sisonpyh: (I noticed recently that at least once every time I go
>>out, a girl will ask me for a light. I always just said "I don't smoke"
or
>>"No" and left it at that. Couple weeks ago I said "Ah-Ha" and I went to
the
>>lighter store SPECIFICALLY to find the coolest lighter that anyone has
>>invented. I bought this trick torch lighter that makes a huge flame.
looks
>>like a
>>welding flame. So what do you think happened the first time I went out
with
>>it?
>>Right. got asked for a light. and fucking freaked the chick out. Nice.)

Did anyone else go out and buy a lighter with a huge flame?  Mine is
bitchin' but it runs out of fuel real fast.
>>And MOST IMPORTANTLY I found and started to hang
>>around with guys that GOT LAID LIKE CHARLIE SHEEN. This was the biggie.
>I owe much of my success to the guys who showed me in the real
>>world what they did to get laid. It wasn't the books and the people
selling
>>tapes and seminars. It was the real world guys that were getting laid.
What
>>I do now resembles nothing that I've really read in a book or learned
from
a
>>guru (With one or two exceptions that I'll share later). So the BEST
advice
>>I can give you is to find about 5 guys in your area that know what the
fuck
>>they're doing, and say "Hey, I really want to get this part of my life
>>handled. can I take you to dinner (no kissing) and pick your brain man?"
Be
>>humble and
>>cool, and you'll make some friends. Like I said, find about 5 different
guys
>>so
>>you can get different perspectives and see how it all fits together. By
the
>>way, go read the chapter in Think and Grow Rich about the Mastermind as
>>well. IF YOU DO NOTHING ELSE, DO THIS ONE THING. IT WILL MAKE THE
>>DIFFERENCE. If you DON'T do this part, shut your mouth, and keep your
>>learning cap on, you'll be one of the guys that writes to Cliff saying
>>"Well, when Mystery had this chick that said "I really love it when a man
>>just sweeps me off my feet" why didn't he use the skydiving suckerfish
>>pattern instead of kissing her?"
>>Those of you that know what I'm talking about say Amen, please.

This is the best advice I have ever seen because this is how I learn 90% of
my techniques.  The problem is finding naturals.  I have been lucky to know
a few, and I find that the best way is to find out from the local super hot
women who the big pimps are.  When you hear a guy's name come up from
different girls then you know he is good.  Granted, this only works in a
small town like mine.  If you live in Canada  I would suggest looking for a
guy who is 6'5 with long hair and a crowd around him.
>>Sisonpyh:  I do crazy shit like if I'm standing next to a girl at a bar,
>>I'll turn to her and say in a completely serious voice "Will you PLEASE
stop
>>touching me?"   And then look them right in the eye.

I field tested this last night with hot results, but not so hot women, so no
closes.
>>Sisonpyh: I used to analyze handwriting, do palmistry, do hand massages,
>>and touch them. do patterns, whatever. Not anymore. Now I'm just sitting
>>there ACTING LIKE WE'RE BEST FRIENDS. When you act like a they're a best
>>friend, they will rapidly get comfortable with you. I make fun of people,
>>whatever.

This was the most interesting part of this post for me because I can relate.
Here is a guy with TONS of NLP and hypno experience yet he doesn't do
patterns or anything like that.  Why?  Because it is unnecessary.  The only
pattern I use is soul gazing.  I used to think I used more, but now I
realize that I use games instead (Question game, 4 magic ?'s, Secrets of
Cube, etc.).  I don't need to create more attraction because I am a fun guy
to be around.  I tend to focus more now on bonding with the girl instead of
trying to make her like me.  This shows through in my attitude and makes
things go better.  I'm not knocking patterns and I recommend learning them,
but only AFTER you have the basics down and can pull girls the natural way.
I'm sure many will disagree, but let's save the debate because this is
strictly an opinion.
>>Sisonpyh: I just totally lean back and relax. I'm cool and relaxed, but
at
>>the same time making comments about how we're going to be friends, etc.
I've
>>learned never to compliment a hot woman on her looks, period. I still
fuck
>>up
>>and forget, and I'm always reminded why I don't do it. I try to find one
>>thing that she's insecure about, and talk to her about it like 'a
friend'.
>>no overly critical, but not saying 'no, you shouldn't be insecure'. I
just
>>keep bringing it up, and even making jokes about it.
>>Here are a couple of rules of thumb that I use:
>>1) Never give a woman a direct answer. unless the answer is NO.
>>This is a big one. If she says 'Can we sit here?" I say "No, let's sit in
>>this one next to it" or if she says "How do you like my dress?" I say
"Well,
>>I
>>think that I like it. just give me a few minutes to see it on you" or if
she
>>says "Call me tomorrow" I say "No. You call me tomorrow. cummon, you want
me
>>and you know it" Get it?
>>
>>Sisonpyh: 2) If she complains about you or doesn't like something, turn
it
>>up a notch and do it more. If she says to me "I don't really like it when
>>you say that."  I say "Well then you might want to leave, because I say
it
a
>>lot" Get it?
>>
>>Mystery: Agreed.  Now is the time I should tell you about a visual
metaphor
>>that I've been considering lately.  It's called HOOP THEORY.  A girl will
>>hold
>>up a hoop and expect you to jump through it.  An example: "What sign are
>>you?"  Most just will jump through her qualification (she only asks cause
>>she wants you to be a COMPATIBLE sign) but instead, grab HER hoop and
hold
>>it in front of her for her to jump through ... "Guess."  Now SHE must
jump
>>through her own hoop.  This example was a very simple one but HOOP THEORY
>>gets profound as more hoops get held up by her.  I will be expanding on
the
>>HOOP metaphor in my book I figure.  Examples from the field, how to
change
>>hands from her to you, etc.
>>
>>Sisonpyh: HER: I don't really like it when you say that.
>>Mystery: (her hoop is held - she wants you to acknowledge that you will
>>change - thereby jumping through the hoop.)
>>
>>Sisonpyh: YOU: Well then you might want to leave because I say it a lot.
>>Mystery: (If she doesn't leave, she has jumped through the hoop.)
>>
>>Mystery:You may jump through her hoops, but must hold your own hoops up
(the
>>same # of them) for her then.  Just think, "Ok, I jumped through one of
>>hers.  She OWES me one."  NEG's are hoops.  If she NEG's you, you must
>>remember to NEG her soon after.  Hey, fair is fair.
>>
>>Sisonpyh: 3) Women are CONSTANTLY testing to see if they can get you to
>>comply with them, and as soon as you do, they hit the road (or marry
you).
>>This took me years to see and understand, but the fact is that when
you're
>>dealing with a powerful, hot woman, she will do all fucking kinds of
things
>>that make no sense at all logically, but all the sense in the world when
you
>>understand her mindset. Hot women can have anything they want. What they
>>want is a challenge.
>>
>>Mystery: EXACTLY.  HOOPS!  They make hoops and we jump through them.
  ONLY -
>>they will accept the challenge to jump through OUR HOOPS when we provide
>>them.  Why do they do it?  For the same reason why AFC's jump through
THEIR
>>hoops - the need for acceptance (insecurity).
>>
>>Sisonpyh: Something that keeps their interest. Here it comes.
>>If a woman can have anything she wants anytime she wants it, then WHY THE
>>HELL DO GUYS THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE INTERESTING BY DOING THE SAME
>>THING THAT
>>EVERY OTHER GUY HAS DONE? Duh. Hey, I used to think this way.
>>but then I got a clue. Now, I pay very careful attention, and never let
her
>>have what she wants. If she says "Kiss me" I say "No" if she says come
over
>>to my house I say "I'm busy right now, I'll come over later" if she says
"I
>>want you so bad, please make love to me" I say "Well, I think that you
need
>>to wait a little longer, and besides, I'm not finished kissing you" Get
>>it? I NEVER give a woman exactly what she asks for. EVER!
>>
>>Mystery: Perfect.  So my HOOP THEORY is valid then.  Good.  You reaffirm
>>that my theory is sound.  AWESOME.
>>
>>Sisonpyh: 4) Always send mixed signals. ALWAYS. Tell her I want to be
>>friends, and kiss her. Tell her that what she just did was unacceptable,
>>then
>>go kiss her. Spank her if she does something nice. Also, respond
differently
>>to the same thing. For example, one time if she comes over and sits on my
>>lap, I kiss her. Another time I push her off. get it? Never be
predictable.
>>NEVER.
>>
>>Mystery: DUDE!  This is some AWESOME shit.  I have from time to time in
my
>>past done this and I never noticed it before.  This is AWESOME.  I LOVE
IT.
>>What is this called?  MIXED SIGNAL THEORY?  (It needs a name).

Now this above discussion is some of the best stuff ever written in this
newsletter or anywhere.  This is advanced shit but it is CRUCIAL if you want
to eliminate AFC tendencies for good and pull chicks like the naturals.  The
old schoolers here will remember when I used to post new techniques almost
every issue.  Recently I PUed the hottest girl I have had in 2 years.  She
is a Jennifer Love Hewitt look alike.  Pics are coming soon.  She is 25 (I'm
21), makes lots of money and is one of the coolest most down to earth chicks
I have met.  If she didn't live so far away I would retire from the game and
see her exclusively.  But you won't see an outing report because there were
no new techniques used, only new attitudes.  The reason why I wasn't pulling
chicks like this in the past is because I wasn't as good at the above (hoops
and mixed signals) as I am now.  I thank the both of you for putting this in
writing because I think this should be the basic newbie manuscript on how to
recover from AFCdom and never look back.
>>Sisonpyh: I have personally always liked the way women smell. so when
>>she's laying next to me with me stroking her hair, I begin to smell her
>>shoulders. just a little at first, and then more and more. while stroking
>>her
>>hair. Within about 5 or 10 minutes, I'm smelling her neck and ears. no
>>kissing, and no groping at all. Never! I'm just smelling, then leaning
back
>>and
>>acting like I'm completely enjoying the smelling, and it's relaxing me.
Try
>>this, my friends.

Try to guess her shampoo.  (Hint: almost always Herbal Essence or Pantene
Pro V).  If you get it right she will be amazed.  Don't ask me why.  It's
also a small way of showing social proof because it means you are around
girls alot.

Thank you Sisonpyh for typing this up.  It is an awesome guide and it is
helping my game already.  I encourage the rest of you to do the same (Where
are you John T?  Give us some more!).

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Bjorn:
I have this comment/question to put out to the newsgroup regarding
Sisonpyh's idea;
Sisonpyh wrote:
"And MOST IMPORTANTLY I found and started to hang
around with guys that GOT LAID LIKE CHARLIE SHEEN. This was the biggie."

I agree with this idea.  One way to be successful in anything is to emulate
what another successful person has already done.  This is currently a
problem area for me.  The guys I hang with are great friends but they are
content with being AFC's (I have sent them links to the SS site to no
avail).  Meantime, my idea for PUA training is to study PUA characters in
movies and emulate some of their characteristics.  Here are some characters
who I think might be good PUA type role models;

- Tom Cruise's character of Frank T.J Mackey in the movie Magnolia
(confident and arrogant)
- Mickey Rourke character in 9 1/2 Weeks and Wild Orchids (confident and
makes the females jump through the hoops)
- Matt (forget his real last name) character Joey on Friends (cocky and
funny at the same time)

Any comments/flames on this topic appreciated!

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