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I’m just a B&W thinker
4/18/01 9:15:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time
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Montreal group: If you are receiving this and are in Montreal, please email
me at cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] to be put on the Montreal mailing list, where you
will be notified of events happening here in Montreal.
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The big event coming up May 11, 12 & 13 is Major Mark's seminar "Awakening
Unafraid" with guest trainer Steve Piccus. Major Mark has been co-trainer
with Ross Jeffries for the Speed Seduction» seminars for many years and is
responsible for inspiring a lot of the SS technology. Mark is also a master
hypnotist, who gives seminars in Hypnosis (including Stage Hypnosis). Visit
his website at www.trucor.com. Having said that, I will be attending the
seminar and I have been thinking that those of you interested in meeting on
Thursday evening, May 10th before the seminar should contact me. We will
probably meet in the lobby of the hotel downtown where the seminar is being
held and then....well, you'll have to show up to find out what happens.
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Nathan's site http://new.metabork.fr.eu.org/lounge/ not working
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I like Mystery's method when it comes to the PU. I think it is more
complete and gives one more "chess moves". Mystery's method forces you to
become the man that women want. Ross does have some unbelievable,
awe-inspiring points when it comes to the non-pattern advice like
affirmations and cold pickups. Mystery's personality is unreal, and that is
a function of him talking with thousands of women through trial and error.
Guys, I just read the book, "What the Hell Do Women Really Want" and I have
to tell you it is a must read since it backs up most of the points discussed
here. It is written by a woman, but she says to act like a jerk and so
forth. It's awesome.
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Joseph:
>This runs right along the lines of what I've come to describe as
>"Toronto's Plague". Some may disagree with me, but the chicks, and people
>in general, of Toronto, are far meaner than friendly. I've been to a
>variety of places, seen about 25 states, lived in California, and Toronto
>is the unfriendliest city I've ever known
This is interesting because I sometimes look through the on-line personal
ads - most of them you have to pay to message people, but you can put a
free ad up....so mostly I just look to read women's ads and see what they
are looking for. I have noticed that there are more "women seeking men" ads
from Toronto and Ontario in general than anywhere else - Texas looks like a
close second - both of these places I don't visit, but I was thinking of
including them in my plans just because of all the gunch that seems to be
there! ICQ is overloaded with chicks looking for romance in Toronto and
Ontario, and I've even asked them about it - 3 of the girls I asked said
that there was a big shortage of men in Toronto, and one of the women said
that men in Ontario are jerks. The place seems like a goldmine for PUA's!
If I were you I'd actually join one of those online sites
www.friendfinders.com www.questpersonals.com www.confidentialconnection.com
www.dating.com
There are alot more on search engines, and from what I've seen and done most
chicks won't even bother replying if you're not from the same city as them,
so you've got a good chance of at least communicating because you actually
live in the city of lonely women.
My Comment: It is mainly laziness (and some lack of time) that prevents me
from running an updated list of singles/dating sites» that are completely
free (free to advertise and free to respond to ads; sites like friendfinders
and questpersonals, etc. may give you a free trial but as a general rule,
responding costs money). If anyone has a list of similar sites, send it in
and I will eventually add the ones I have run them here.
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TomBOy:
Dilemma: I seem to be too old for the thirty & under hot babes. (To them,
anyway. Too bad my wallet isn't thicker by a few million or so.)
And the over 45's are all mostly out of shape and forget it over 50.
I'm in very late 50's but get taken for early 40's all the time. Super
good shape, young skin, dress, etc. The field seems very small with
fewer choices, Does the pheremone stuff really work? I don't go to bars
& clubs. Unhealthy, for several reasons. I saw "The Tao of Steve".
Great movie, with some laughs. How to be a Steve instead of a Stu.
Check it out. I guess I have to go back to school & change with the
times. Seems like my high energy & good looks can only go so far.
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
My Comment: The biggest obstacle is your thinking that you are too old.
There are just too many older guys out there with hot young GF's in their
20's & 30's -- it's clear that age is not that important to a lot of women.
When you were younger you didn't have the experience - now you have the
experience and tell yourself you are too old. Well, you aren't going to get
any younger so that isn't going to change; the only thing you can change is
your own attitude about it. It may take more work to find the women who
like older men so here are a couple of places to start looking: The first
is the MSN Community, Young Women Who Love Older Men
(http://communities.msn.com/isapi/acssrv.dll?action=acwarning&c=&redir_url=%
2Fisapi%2Facssrv%2Edll%3Faction%3Dhomepage%26commid%3Dyoungwomenwholoveolder
men) and the second is Young Women (under 30), who enjoy Older Men (over 40)
http://communities.msn.com/YoungWomenunder30whoenjoyOlderMenover40
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Crazy1:
I have immense amounts of respect for this list but question why we need to
be promoting the cult influence for reasons other than seduction. Seduction
has it's own traits that may follow very closely but why get on a list of
people that are creating cults? Do we really want to entangle ourselves in
that mess? I don't think that we need to go that far, it is just pushing an
envelope that doesn't need to be pushed.
Beside the fact that Alpha Males and seduction artists put their greatest
effort forward to be the top of the line, there is no reason to mention
cults. It is not relevant to the art of seducing women in any way shape or
form. There is no reason to make people think that seducing women should be
some sort of cult formation.
I do admit that there are many cult type influences and followings but do we
really need to put this list in the public eye?
I would like to hear comment, and I would also like to hear a justifiable
reason that we should be talking about forming cults in this newsletter.
My Comment: I guess not everyone has my sense of humour. I just thought
that was pretty interesting -- I am not a promoter of cults, that's for
sure. And it was mentioned because there was a hypnosis/seduction element
to it. I run a lot of stuff on my list from a different perspective than
someone who is advertising something: what I am doing is pointing out stuff
that I find that looks interesting. If I have bought it, and read it (which
often I never get to), I will let everyone know what I thought about it. If
not, I mention it so others can let the rest of us know if it is worthwhile
or not. This really comes from the perspective as I am one of you. I have
no financial interest in ANY of the products that you see on my list
(contrary to what some of you think about my relationship with Ross and SS)
and only promote the stuff I think is good. And always without any personal
gain (although, if anyone wants to express their appreciation in the form of
freebies, they are more than welcome).
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Blade:
>I mean, it's one thing to know about it, but for a non-user to recognize a
>pattern? I'm not sure I'd even recognize some of the pattern-speech if used
>well - I mean some regular talk sounds like pattern-speech. Maybe she was
>flirting and didn't really know, just guessing because SS had intrigued
>her.....but Incredible Connections is the Classic....so maybe she
>did......anyone else been "busted?"
Yup. I was out with my wingman PowdR in Oslo, Norway - and got pretty close
with this brunette HB. In the middle of some heavy patterning, she
interrupts me and says: "Hey, are you doing Speed Seduction» on me?" That
basically paralyzed me...for about two seconds...and then some kind of
unconscious response in me made me turn the whole situation around and say:
- Yes. Because over the years, women have told me that most men don't
understand them...know how to really CONNECT with them in that special
way...and I gradually came to realize...that Speed Seduction» was a way of
learning what a woman really wants (pts) and needs...to be able to talk to a
woman in a way...that makes her feel safe and comfortable. And as you feel
that special connection with a man (pts) who understands exactly what your
dreams and fantasies are made of...I wanted to learn what I can do to really
make you...just let go...and experience new directions...Imagine..that a man
would dedicate himself to really learn how to please you...in all the ways
you've always wanted to be pleased...can you feel THAT is something an
intelligent woman would truly appreciate?
Her: Oh, my god - YES! You really know your stuff don't you? :D
And then we actually had a long conversation on how almost all the men out
there are so selfish and don't really know what women want, etc. he he
You have to realize that SS isn't about how to 'trick' a woman into doing
what you want - it's really getting to know women and how they think, so
that you in your communication may speak to her on her own level...
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Mystery:
>Totally true. He's arguing ala James Randi. Obviously one of his heroes.
Why is arguing ala James Randi a bad thing? The man is KNOWN for his
brilliant rationalizations. This statement of yours is a GREAT
COMPLIMENT. I respect Randi as does anyone with a penchant for
systematically investigating irrational claims. Do I respect RATIONAL
people? Fuck, yeah! What is WRONG with B&W thinking? (Let's remember that
B&W is only a metaphor ... yes or no is another way of thinking of it ... or
most accurately TRUTH or FALSE). A statement can always
be simplified to a simple yes or no ... a truth or a falsehood. ALL
KNOWLEDGE can be DIGITALLY ENCODED. ALL OF IT - information holds no
MAGICAL quality - let's de-mystify it. If your mental model includes
mystical notions like collective consciousness, psychic vampires and
'non-linear' thinking, or COLORFUL ways of thought like the colorful
words TRANCE and HYPNOTIZE, then a more REASONABLE SYSTEM can still be
found. Translating MYSTIC ideas into the language of memetics
(specific length of information encoded in the brain) will result in a
more accurate picture. Randi ROCKS. He is BRILLIANT ... although I
doubt he gets laid much ... but that's another issue altogether. :D
>>~Squeaky~:
>>Mystery:
>>I watched Ross' LA seminar
>>and it took literally over an hour to get to ONE major point (how the
>>dating frame sucked).
>Did you watch the ENTIRE seminar? When I first saw that early segment I
>thought, "Oh crap, Ross is gonna filibuster for 16 hours! Why is he
spending
>so much time working on one person?" but by the end I saw that he was able
>to refer back to the frame theory throughout the weekend and every time he
>mentioned it, the more powerfully it stuck in my head... I've got a thick
>skull and appreciate that he harps on certain themes.
>And the stuff I ignored cuz I didn't think it was important, came back to
>BITE ME IN THE ASS later on. Sure the seminar starts off a little slow, but
>there's lots of red meat there. He opens up many loops, goes on meaningful,
>almost Proustian, digressions and at the end he closes the loops...
>Criticizing 1/16th of a weekend seminar is not the way to go. It really
>should be thought of as a hole.
Let's just say that 1/3rd of his seminar was disappointing so far. I
ASSUME the rest of the seminar is still in SEMINAR form, yes? I
criticize the fact that the info is in seminar form to BEGIN WITH. A
bunch of guys in a room for that long ain't a good thing. In the same
amount of time a person can get a hell of alot more in his head by
working a club with a PUA coach on his wing. Information goes from
brain to brain in a LINEAR way. MANY LOOPS and DIGRESSIONS make for a messy
(and may I add NEEDLESSLY MESSY) meme complex transfer. Instead of trying
to teach all these IDEALISMS of SEDUCTION, why not teach exactly what he
DOES? MM is the MYSTERY METHOD». It's about me ... MYSTERY ... replicating
my METHOD ... my PERSONAL real life practical METHOD into the minds of those
who wish to get similar results. No need for LOOPS and DIGRESSIONS. Read
an organized set of books, do the basic training for real field experience
(just like I did) and you
get the same results as me. Isn't that reasonable? A SYSTEM of
cognitive organization. No NON LINEAR shit. Sure the MM model is not
merely a like a single DOS program .... it's more like several DOS
programs running in a multi-tasking environment - simultaneously. If I
could program a computer, I would be able to replicate my method to
create very similar behaviors. There ARE after all, only so many
scenarios, so many contingencies, so many routines to perform. This
is not an INFINITE system. It's a CLOSED SYSTEM - FINITE with a set
amount of running variables. You learn faster by DOING than just by
watching. 3 days of seminars ... that's a little rough on the ass, isn't
it? Having to go at the pace of the slowest phobic? How bout going
at your OWN pace? So long as you are CONSISTENTLY meeting girls you
will be CONSISTENTLY LEARNING. Then with the assistance of
information from the books (and possibly live coaching from a good PUA
wing) you build a mental model that FITS the environment. But then
what the fuck - what do I know. *shrug* I could be completely off my
rocker.
>Joseph:
>Hopefully this will put an end to Mystery's ill-informed comments about
>mental rehearsal vs.basic training, comments which sparked this entirely
too
>long heated debate which has already bored most of us to no end and is
>exposing the sophomoric tendency to one-up each other by two of our most
>respected leaders. A few years ago, a major US University conducted an
>experiment with basketball players-
>3 groups of equal numbers of college basketball players. Each group had an
>initial test to determine level of free-throw skill, to be compared with a
>similar test at the end of a three month period.
>
>A group practiced free throws for those 3 months, 2 hours a day
>B group imagined practicing free throws only in their mind for those 3
>months, 2 hours a day
>C group did nothing at all pertaining to basketball for those 3 months
(i.e.
>the control in the experiment)
>
>A group and B group made roughly the same improvement over-all at making
>free throws consistently. B group actually improved slightly MORE than A
>group, but it was an insignificant amount. C group did not improve at all,
>and actually got a slightly lower score than it had at the beginning of the
>experiment.
>
>Sure, throwing free throws isn't the exactly same thing as seducing people,
>but you get the point - Mystery is wrong.
I do not challenge this data. The MAJOR difference here is that the
well defined laws of parabolas was already stored in memory by YEARS of
familiarity with the laws of physics (I assume the ball players were
not infants?). Once you play Pacman long enough, you can DREAM Pacman
(simulate it in the mind with a fair degree of accuracy). But you can't
simulate it accurately til you've PLAYED the game yourself. The rules
must be internalized first. So for something as mundane as
internalizing the rules of natural arcs on earth, such information can
be simmed quite quickly (such basic information may even be hardwired
into the brain by evolution). But for a complex set of rules like
social interaction in a memetic (cultural) environment, you have to
FAMILIARIZE yourself with the rules before you can run sims in your
head. So Mystery is NOT wrong. All you have to do is EXPERIENCE FIRST and
THEN you can read the books and simulate scenarios to your heart's content.
BASIC TRAINING FIRST! Without that your sims are utter
fantasies. Visualization cannot BEGIN until you have EXPERIENCE. Here
is a way of looking at it: do you think I would invent a mental model
WITHOUT EVER HAVING APPROACHED A WOMEN? I mean, I COULD (look at Ray's book
OUTFOXING the FOXES for an example of this) but you think it will have
anything to do with reality? In a similar way, you wouldn't expect to
encode someone else's model of reality (SS or MM) into your skull without
first knowing how and where the model fits in RELATION to reality would you?
But then again, I'm just a B&W thinker.
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Brother Diamond:
I've been trying to talk to lesbians and study
them...what makes them tick and so on. Can anybody
give any concrete info on why they view themselves the
way they do and how it happens? It seems as far as I
can tell it depends on how they view their origins,
as either being born like this or just completely
tired of men for good and turn to women instead.
Any thoughts on this and the fact that most of them are assholes to men?
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Doc:
Developments, Developments!!!! MAN. Ok. Lots has happened. Things are
weird. Remember EVIL SISTERS??? Ok, one of them, let's call her Mary. I
invited Mary over for dinner. Went to pick her up. She brought red wine,
and we shopped around, etc. I'm a decent cook and she rather enjoyed the
food. We sat in my room, eating, dining, listening to music, talking....
This was at 6 pm.
We spoke for ages. Sooner than later, it was midnight. I promised to walk
her back to her place, but then at some point, I decided to take a big turn.
I was able to be an actual PERFORMING ARTIST. I realized that by doing
something that can bring her to an emotional state of ATTACHMENT due to the
way she was, I was able to PERFORM an ACT of CRYING. It was fantastic. She
held me close, holding my hand, etc. NONE of this would've probably
happened if it wasn't for the sudden emotional connection we felt. Well, I
mean the crying was probably also helped a little by the alcohol, and I
wasn't just making something up out of the blue. But we sat there holding
hands....she had tears in her eyes. It really meant a lot to me. Things
developed....I started to suggest that I've never met someone like her in my
life, etc. She sat there on my bed, and started shaking a little and she
noticed it. I held her hand, and never let go. At some point she told me,
"Maybe we can be the best of friends." I told her, "Mary, I really can't
hide all my feelings for you." She said "I am just afraid... if we go into
a relationship, I will lose you."
To be frank, I DO connect with this girl. It's amazing. In my experience,
usually it's just some pick up, some SS, a bit of work here and there and
bang boom bang get outta my room see ya later. This girl is NOTHING like
it. I've known her as friends, and just in a few hours it just happened.
She actually spent the night here in my room with me. We slept in the same
bed, holding each other. I was really close to bringing her to orgasm, but
she then said "I can't believe I'm doing this... I'm such a bad girl..."
You see she usually isn't anything like this. Mary is a rather complex
girl. I'd still like to go out with her, and I think with time something
will develop.
She left at 8 in the morning. I think she was somewhat confused but she
DEFINITELY liked me. I spoke to her later and she basically said that she's
a little scared (oh sorry forgot she's never ever had a boyfriend!!! And I
think I am able to establish SO much rapport and SO MUCH connection with her
she thinks I'm literally her soul-mate).
I kind of feel the same way because I really like her. I am trying not to
fall into wrong territory but as you guys know I've been working at this
girl for a long time and now BOOM it happened.
I really need to sort things out. We're going for a walk on the beach on
Wednesday, perhaps to talk about things. and if I can hear from anyone
before then I'd be very grateful. I am wondering what to say so that I can
have her to be affectionate towards me in public. In private now, I think
when the "moments are right" (and that's pretty damn easy for me to
establish - I've planted a few anchors already) it will happen.
I just really like this girl and I'm trying to be careful. Oh, and another
thing - this came to me as a surprise but she is actually hypnotically
suggestible. I am being careful here because I am tempted to do something
but I really really like this girl. I also think direct/dynamic hypnosis is
just cheap if I use it to get her.
I think in some way she needs to alleviate the fear of losing me. She needs
me to be by her side, and I'm fine with that but I think she's just afraid.
The MOMENTS we've had - I think those are what she treasures. She ENJOYED
them and has never EVER felt anything like that before. I tried to bring in
her imagination, suggesting the "Our World" pattern. I also tried to show
her that there are 2 sides to every girl - the inner core self and the
culturally programmed self.
I think this is SO true for her because what she did with me, is definitely
NOT the way she is "culturally programmed". I don't know how to get around
this.... Never been in a situation like this.
>GameMaster:
>Why do you need a story? Fuck, I'm going go buy some Christmas
>cards tomorrow! That's beautiful. Now this guy GETS it! He's relaxed, his
>eyes aren't rolling back in his head, HE is in control of himself, and he
is
>making a conscious effort to be different. Be fascinated with the
>experience, not the individual. Doc, I'll hang out with you anytime. Let me
>know if you ever decide to move to the States!
Lol- the story was actually implanted with a few SS embedded commands, I
know I said you can play it cool and it works too, but I was just playing
around anyway, haha. If the stripper really has a boyfriend, she won't want
you. Even if she acts like she does, she's doesn't want you! She wants your
MONEY! Or whatever else you might have to offer! (fame, etc.) but IF she
doesn't have a boyfriend... hmmm. That's when you jump right into the
stripper's mind with your powerful suggestions.
I AM from the States, GameMaster. I'm just away at university!! Relaxed and
in control? I don't know, man. You should read the bit about the evil
sisters, I'd say I'm starting to lose a bit of touch.... And God, I'm only
19.... Shit.
>LMAO!!!!! I had a GF a year ago who actually told me she wanted one of
>these things. I ordered one but we broke up while it was being shipped...
>however, I did get to use it with the current MLTR. It was a lot of fun.
>Very similar scenario as your first outing.
Hey question - anyone here ever made a girl orgasm just by activating an
anchor? What's a good anchor to plant for that? I have found an erogenous
zone on Mary (evil sister HB) and it's great because it works everytime the
way I touch... haha so I just need to find a good way to anchor it. I am
thinking of a combination of voice, breathing and touch....
>Yep. Mine is actually a LONG TERM investment. It's an investment in a
>lifestyle. I guess SS is about starting to get laid soon after learning
>while MM is about laying experiential ground work so when you finally DO
>start getting laid it will be by particularly HOT babes. (I gear it to
HB's
>and not just B's except for practice).
But don't you think that SS is based on similar principles? SS IS a long
term investment- it DOES change your lifestyle in that you learn to bring
out many great things in females.
>Read my DIGITAL PHOTO ROUTINE! Do a search.
Haha I JUST got a digital camera too... but I don't' know yet I'll see how
it goes with Mary (aka Evil Sister #1). I actually like her to the point I
won't mind settling down for a bit.
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Casey:
>Mr. Icerigger:
>I've been reading Influence: Science and Practice by Robert Cialdini.
>This book is solid gold. The chapter on social proof alone is worth the
>price of the book. I know that this isn't an unknown book to the seduction
>community - but I thought I'd throw out my recommendation just in case.
: )
Casey:
See Dr. Robert Leiberman's, "Get Anyone to Do Anything and Never Feel
Powerless Again."
Casey:
Story Time!
Saturday Night, Big Dress-Up Party (I'm wearing a Tux)
Ok, so I met this chick, we danced, I did Mystery's "Gummy Bears" game;
I got her out to my truck, I did safety & comfort patterns. We ended up
staying out together until 3 am, number close (only!!!)
We agreed to get together 2 nights later, but when we talked, she declined
and we talked instead.
Monday Night (HOOPS)
So, we're talking and I'm leading the conversation around to being
spontaneous; I ask her if she can be/is spontaneous and ask her to describe
that last time that she was extremely spontaneous. She describes herself
and some girlfriends talking about a trip on Monday, and then the entire
group calling in sick and taking the rest of the week to go out-of-state;
I'm impressed. We start talking about going camping together and she
suggests that we go camping that night. I say ok, I'll come over and pick
you up and we'll go! She says, "Sure." and starts to tell me directions to
her place. I tell her to wait because I can't drive & write at the same
time. So I tell her I'm heading her way (it's about 9:30 pm.) So we're
talking and I'm driving her direction, but no address, no directions (ok, I
could have done better here); she's not quite sure to believe that I'm
really on the way to her city and is teasing about me being in my apartment
pretending; I'm teasing her back, but asking specific questions about
directions on the way (I'm really on my way.)
So I get to within 5 miles of her place, it's about 10:30 pm, and I ask her
to which street I should take from the freeway, she starts flaking on me. I
take some exit that I think that she is suggesting and am describing my
position, but she's not helping. I finally stop and continue talking with
her, but she's not helping me get there. She says, "It's too early", and I
ask how she knows and do some SOM and some pattern language around, but I
don't get the info that I need. I finally turn around and head back and she
plays with me a little more saying that she'll make some hot soup for me,
and I ask her if I should turn around and come to her place. She says no,
we talk until 11:30 pm and
I sleep alone.
HOOP Analysis
Ok, so I got played BIG TIME! She put up a HOOP and I jumped through
it, like a good little doggie. It cost me pride & dignity, and I have no
intention of calling her again. Ok, fine. So Mystery, where (maybe it's
perfectly obvious to everyone but me), exactly, did I screw up? How could I
have handled her HOOP and changed it into her jumping through MY HOOP?
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maintained by "Clifford". Your comments are requested, encouraged, and
greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by
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and it will be done. If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just
ask. For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford
highly recommends your visiting http://www.seduction.com/. For those interested in seeing
the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on
request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at http://www.fastseduction.com/cliff/.
By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only. You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice. You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them. If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.
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This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here
with Clifford’s permission. Visual enhancements and search features have been added
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endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of fastseduction.com. The archive
enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues
don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the
enhancements are pretty accurate. The archive is updated as regularly as possible,
whenever new newsletters are sent out.
