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You need to come across as a decent guy
6/30/01 1:16:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time
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girlfriends and wives were "no problem!" While I like reading these type of
books, this one isn't bad but there's very little anyone who has been on
this list for awhile will not have seen elsewhere.
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Mark:
Regarding the guy in your last email about being in a strip club, I dated a
few
strippers and this is what I found:
"How to pick up strippers and exotic dancers."
I have dated my fair share of these women and the same commonalties
exist which prove themselves from dancer to dancer all the time. This
advice comes from dancers themselves and from trial and error personal
experience.
We have all seen them and marvel at their shape and beauty. We also
desire them for the sake of knowing that we attained something so out
of reach and unattainable. There is a way.
When trying to pick up a dancer do not give her any money and do not
get her to do a nude table dance for you. This is contrary to what you may
think but these girls see men in one of two categories, customers and non
customers. You become a customer when you give her your first dollar and
then it's nearly impossible to convert yourself back into non customer mode
for she knows that if she goes out with you her revenue from you will stop,
and she does not want to lose it. By staying a non customer but a friendly
guy she will not attach dollar sighs to you and she will see she has no
revenue to lose by spending time with you. Some men spend $1,000's before
asking
out the girl but by that time she will say "get to know me some more and
then maybe we will go out" which means spend more money and the date never
comes.
If she does agree to go out with you it will be for shopping at your expense
or expensive dinner and nothing else. It's fine to buy her a drink though.
Also you may think that if you give her money she will like you more. They
will, but only for your money and it's not what you want. They may also
think
that you will do this to other girls behind her back if she gets into a
relationship with you and she may feel cautious.
These women also have a concern about meeting you in the bar. That is why
you need to come across as a decent guy, not a salivating pig in order to
differentiate yourself all the other guys out there. Tell them you rarely
come to these places and you never get dances. Tell her she looks great and
you
would love to get to know her and see her outside of the bar. Have a normal
conversation with her about her interests. Dancers are naturally concerned
about meeting and dating men from the bar because they will think that the
man will think lowly of them. Counter this by upholding her profession and
never being critical or disapproving of what she does.
Success rate is lower in a strip bar than other places because these woman
are naturally more defensive there because they think you may only be after
one
thing.
But when you do succeed in taking one out the sex is 99% guaranteed because
they know you desire them physically since you picked them up after seeing
them almost naked. They know that you want them and feel liberated to open
themselves sexually to you if you can prove to them that you want them for
more than just sex. Do what I suggest and you will have an exotic beauty to
enjoy.
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Mystery:
> ** A Stunningly Beautiful Woman **
>I found this technique to be a great one for picking up women.
>Walk up to a woman that you find attractive. The setting is
>irrelevant. And say to her with a smile:
>"Excuse me, but I could not help to notice you while walking
>there. I wanted to let you know that you are a stunningly
>beautiful woman."
>Then wait for a response which, in 95% of all cases, is a mix of
>stunned disbelief mixed in with blushing and immediate like toward
>you.
STRONGLY consider not using the EXCUSE ME, BUT opening. I'M CURIOUS is far
stronger (bums open with EXCUSE ME, BUT). "Hi You are
stunning", says the exact same thing - your version pussyfoots. While
your advice on LAYING IT ON THE LINE is useful, this opener I have
found from my field experience rarely OPENS the convo, especially when
the girl KNOWS she is stunning. Just my 2 cents worth here.
>I find that most of the time this is all you have to say, and the
>woman will do most of the talking and the pressure is off you. The
>woman will freely continue the conversation with you."):
ALSO, your approach ASSUMES a woman is ALONE. Realistically, when do
you find a "STUNNING" woman in a 1:1? AND ... if she is in a 2 set,
then by approaching the target immediately, you simply alienate her
friend (the obstacle). You gotta DISARM the obstacle first, NEG the
target, get PERMISSION to 1:1 with the target from the obstacle and
THEN you can use your line (though the truncated version is far
cleaner).
>Using this technique I have been able to score more numbers and dates
>than any other way. Follow up the initial comments about how great
>she looks and how much you are attracted to her. Then tell her you
>would love to see her for a drink or a meal. Get her number.
Opening with a compliment is NOT a proven winner when approaching 9+
rated women. If it WAS, I'd be using it.
>I find this works for the following reasons:
>* It's courageous, and women like men who take risks.
Courage is good, but approaching an entire group of people and coming
off natural and confident does the trick nicely.
>* It's honest and to the point. They know where they stand with you.
And where is the challenge? You need to evoke CAPTURE instincts.
>* If they are attracted to you, telling them you find them beautiful
>will free them from their fear of rejection of being attracted to you.
This forces them to judge you on your LOOKS alone.
>* It makes them feel good about themselves.
When you are guy #17 of the day complimenting them (trust me, I have
had HOT GF's) they KNOW they are hot. It's merely a FACT.
>* It lets them know you like them. People like those who like them.
They KNOW people want to FUCK them, it's liking THEM ... who they are
INSIDE ... that they like.
>Try it on the next 20 women that you see and you will be amazed with
>the results.
>More from Mark Bednarski (from private email, commenting on my question
>about how are the women in Toronto):
>Women here are more about commitment and being serious. I find you need to
>prove to them that you want them, not just for one night fucking. If they
>sense you are a player they are gone.
>So as long as I show them I am serious about them they respond.
Sometimes this fits Toronto, sometimes not. I wouldn't personally say
that women here want SERIOUS. This could be merely an observational
bias. Admittedly, it's not as CAREFREE as LA (truth is, Toronto girls
are pretty ugly - there are maybe 1 to 3 girls who are 9+ in a typical
club while in LA we're talking 5 - 15 per club.
>What seems to work is complimenting them by telling them how beautiful they
>are and how attracted you are to them and that you enjoy their company.
Wow. No way. Are you approaching 9+ girls? Sure, approach a 6.5 and
this may work. I have to disagree about the compliment opener thing.
>This way they think you are serious about them without actually telling
them
>you want them long term. If they come back and say they though you wanted
>long term can say you never said that and keep your sense of integrity.
>By being adventurous I find that you just need to be that way and they will
>see it. You do not have to tell them. Action speaks better than words.
>I read an article about a 28 year old who says he loses women after 6 - 7
>dates. This works 90% of the time for me to get sex, 2nd dates and
relationships
>when I do this as soon as possible. I have told them they look great and I
find them >beautiful.
No doubt after you have counted a few IOI's and you are going for the
close you phase shift from hard to get to conveying your desires. You
MUST convey your desires at some point certainly, but not when you
OPEN!
>I told them I was attracted to them and I found them attractive.
>I talked about sex with them and tell them how much I enjoy it.
>I touch them a lot but casually, on the shoulder, arm, back, etc.
>I kiss them on the lips during the date.
>I tell them I enjoy their company and would love to see them again.
>I called them a day or so after first meeting them and a day or so after a
>1st date.
>I ask them lots of questions but say little about myself and listen to
them.
>I did this in such a way to suggest that I am open to them but not
desperate
>or not that they have to engage in anything right now.
>Whenever I failed to get sex, a 2nd date or a relationship, it's because I
>did not do at least one of the things above. I lost many great women that
>way. They said "Mark, your desire to be with me was not urgent enough"
after I did >not call right away.
>"I want to be friends" when I did not talk about sex or kiss them.
>"I am not ready for a relationship" - when I did not talk about one.
>I don't think you are interested in me" - after I do not tell them I think
>they are great.
>I feel some other systems work only on women that have the capability to
>chase and stand the risk of rejection. Most women do not have that ability
>and when a man tries to have a woman chase him she will think he is not
>interested in her and she will move on.
Wow man, what girls are you going after? Can you send me an email with
a pic of yourself (of course it will remain private)? If you are in
Toronto, maybe it would be entertaining and possibly educational to
meet up in the field for some pleasurable mutual gaming.
>Countless personal experiences and many discussions with women have
>confirmed this for me. Unless you are Gene Simmons, most women think the
>average guy is not worth the chase.
Based on looks certainly, but GROUP THEORY is about CREATING an image
worthy of her chasing you.
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Dean:
I am in a situation with this chick at the moment which is totally confusing
me and I would like to direct this to the list to see if anyone may be able
offer some advice.
Basically this chick has LJBF'd me, but the confusing thing is that what she
says totally contradicts her body language» and the way she acts around me.
She tells me she just wants to be close friends, but when she is around me
she tells me she cares for me, has feelings for me, and she is always
holding my hand, touching, hugging and kissing me, and definitely not in the
way you would behave with a friend. I have ditched her once already and a
few weeks later she approached me and told me that she still cared for me.
She doesn't have a BF as she got rid of him a few months ago.
Now the question is, do I ditch her, or is this her playing hard to get? She
is a model and is used to lots of guys making a play for her. If anyone has
any suggestions on this it would be appreciated.
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Brother Diamond:
One of the emails in the newsletter got me
thinking about this totally corny sarge I did this
week. It was with a woman in her early thirties (not
married/no ring) and very attractive. I'd seen her
looking at the candy aisle so I sarged her.
I did the "shining example of genetic perfection" and she
smiled one of those incongruant/inconsistant smiles
people do when they try to be nice but really aren't
:0) and looked at me. I asked about what she was like
inside, and she got a weird look on her face and said..
"You know that's quite a perverted question you just
asked me. Do you know that? I mean do you go around
picking up women around the store and then talk dirty
to them like this?"
I got this messed up look on my face like someone had
just insulted me (cause she basically had but I didn't
think too much of it at the time. It wasn't until I
thought more about asking her what she's like and her
acting like I raped her or something that I got
pissed) and said "uhhhh, no, why?"
Then I quickly excused myself from the mystery woman
who walks around worrying about someone going to rape
her every minute of her life. : ) Weirdo. I didn't know I was a pervert.
After hundreds of sarges in 10 months of SS, I finally find out the sad
sad truth that I'm a pervert!!!! I'm crying now!!!
Yea right.
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MiMe:
(Commenting on ..."I stopped going to nightclubs, because (snip)...
"Despite the so-called "equality" among the sexes in this
country, as far as the social scene goes, women still expect the
man to make the first move.""):
Yes, of course!!!!! Do you really think feminism has changed
anything about these stereotypes????? No, it did not.
I have been single most of my life, and just about each time I
did the first move, it SCARED men away......
So, based on my personal experience and on other women's
experiences : YES, men are still in charge of making the first
move and it has been years that I am sticking to this behavior. At
least, I do not experience this feeling of being perceived as
someone who fell from the moon.
In that respect, men do not like it and they feel it is either an
intrusion or they think that this woman is horny. Intellectual
men do feel the same way: their tricks are hiding behind over
intellectualizing...
No, Sir, I do not feel a woman can approach men (a man) in
a social context, because the other way around is such a strong
ingrained behaviour, which I think will NOT change in our life time. In
that respect, I give all the power to the men because I totally
gave up on going up to a man and introducing myself: his first
reflex is to run away.... and I do not feel as an asteroid
anymore. I rather be ignored than feeling suspicious vibes.
(Commenting on: "There are only three types of guys in the U.S. that get
approached by hotchycks: millionaire rock stars, entertainment
industry moguls, and cokedealers."):
Calm down: how many millionaires in the US? How many rock
stars?? etc. Just be realistic.... Just statistically, there
are so few of them and so many women........
(Commenting on: "So there you are, in a night club, and as you bother to
spend
your time and energy to get to know her better, she simply gives
you the run-around of some sorts. Not even enough time to get in
your sargying.''):
Maybe try another type of sargying....... !!!!
It is kind of very stereotyped, don't you think ? But of
course, you talk about "hotchick": is it because they are
"beautiful" or because they seem.... horny???
Maybe, if men were generally not so afraid of being
approached by a woman (What does she want? You know very well
that one cannot rape a man!!! LOL!!!!! Money?)
Have you ever considered that she could do it for several other
reasons :
- to check if her intuition about this person fits with who the
guy really is? and if he is as interesting as she may have ...
anticipated??
- to start a conversation because.... talking is still a means of
communication, even before going to bed?
- to start a conversation because loneliness is experienced by
everybody?
As a man, I would enjoy this "social" power to have the choice to
go and talk to a woman... instead of complaining about it !!!
Men do still have much more more power and freedom than they will
admit (to admit it, one would need to acknowledge it first!!),
and I am referring here to social life. Yes, now life in the
workplace might have different rules, due to women's empowerment,
positive discrimination, etc, etc., but not the social life...
I think. I may be wrong....Or I may be an anonymous zero and an
ugly person lost in the crowd of numerous single women, which is
the majority of them (and women do outnumber men, as you know it
!...): in the last years, I have been approached by A (ONE) man
about once a year. And age has nothing to do with: I am older,
but it was not much better before.
May be women do also need a women's dedicated Speed Seduction»
site and forum....
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Pablo:
I find it is paramount to read women's body language». Not only is it great
in
order to mirror to gain rapport, but also important to read patterns, read
current states, etc.
Anyway, I've been focusing in on one specific point of body language»
recently. After all when we start to learn what a certain pattern means we
can manipulate it....
I was sitting at a bus stop listening to a stereo, minding my own business
when I noticed a girl coming towards the bus shelter. Hmmmm.. I thought.
Nice body, shame about the face. I couldn't even rate the girl, her face
seemed to be in conflict with the rest of her. Needless to say I wasn't
really very interested. So I put my head back down and continued to listen
to my music. Anyway, the bus didn't come for a while, but I noticed that
this girl had taken a position which was very strange, indeed. It seemed
that though she was apparently waiting for a bus and she had adopted a
side-on position with her leg raised against a wall. She would occasionally
give me the eye and so I knew she was interested (even if she was just being
naturally inquisitive...)
Not one to waste an opportunity to try out new things I approached the girl.
She nervously looked up. I made some witty introduction and she seemed happy
enough to return some light kino when offered. We talked for a little while,
and it turns out she was a pretty scatty beauty student (I guess she had a
lot to
learn). Anyway a strange thing happened in those first few moments. It
seemed that the side that she had originally decided to display to me (when
perched against the wall) she continued to use as her presentation side. It
came across as quite odd because I had never before seen a girl do this so
blatantly before. As she would talk she would move herself to a position
where I could only see the side she wanted me to see. I moved around into a
new position and she instantaneously moved to show me the right side of her
body. Now, I made a few assumptions in this first few minutes.
1) The side that she presents to me is the side that she wants me to see, so
I know that I have gained great rapport when I get her to relax her control
over which side I see.
2) The part of herself that she presents to me is not the side I want to
'connect' with. So I need to find out what takes me to her other side. I
eventually want to make kino on her protected side and make her feel secure,
good and complete on her protected side (Of course I need to be careful,
after all, if she's protecting it, it might be because she's got negative
anchors. If so, I'd have to negate them)
3) I probably cannot jump straight to her protected side without causing her
some discomfort. If I build up and congruently positively effect her, I can
make her feel secure with me.
4) This girl is really insecure and probably not worth wasting my time on...
So I ignored the latter and began to kino on her protected side. I got her
to smile and then to see how she reacted I touched her on her left shoulder.
She instantly withdrew. Hmm I thought. Interesting. So I started from
scratch, I began to trance her, then I set a pleasure anchor on her right
arm and then fired the anchor and touched at the same time her left arm.
"Nice work me" I said to myself. I had made a connection to her right side.
At
this she really seemed to relax and she began to open up. I developed the
rapport by building the kino on her two sides. and finally ended by gently
massaging her left side (protected side) and talking really intimately.
Anyway her bus came and went.. hehe she had her eyes closed and was in
trance.. and then my bus came and I had to leave. But when I came home I met
my friend's girlfriend. Now she did exactly the same thing but much more
subtley. She presented a side to me and protected another side of her. I
tried a similar technique and had similar results. As I led her into more
emotional states I was allowed freedom to touch her protected side which
both allowed me to take her deeper and as a result of going deeper I was
allowed more kino. (No, I didn't seduce her...she's my friend's
girlfriend!!)
So I recognized an important body language» trait. We all select sides of
ourselves to present to others. Now these presentations are usually
subconscious, they are perhaps because of an insecurity that we are hiding,
perhaps because we feel that one side of ourselves is favourable. Either
way, if we connect to the weaker side positively we provide that sense of
completion that many girls strive for. So please experiment with this. If
used to empower your kino and to add congruence with your reframing you can
add another powerful tool in your seduction toolbox.
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NightLight9 comments:
I watched "The Fast and the Furious" last night. It was a fun movie,
although
far from great. One scene caught my attention though for it's a perfect
example of not supplicating and making them chase you. The antagonist wants
to make friends with the leader of the gang. He does the guy a big favor
and when he gets to the leader's house to drop him off, there's a big party.
Now most people would have sort of assumed they could come into the party,
but he just starts walking away. The leader offers him a beer and he comes
in, but by walking away it made a huge statement. He risked not getting
invited to the party and getting to hang out (his real goal), but the payoff
was it was that his perceived value went way up. This kind of stuff works
powerfully with HB's and new friends.
> Caco the talkative one: [snip]
> What do you think about this little experiment of mine?
I like it. It's good to talk to lots of people. It really helps your
skills. Especially if they are a broad cross section of people. In a bar I
will talk to everyone who is friendly. Some nights I'm very hottie centric,
but only if there are so many hotties, that I can't hope to talk to a high
percentage of them if I'm not.
> Another question: I am one of those really fast talkers and often while
> patterning or during convo, I feel that the females miss many of my
> words. Any specific ways to slow down my speech?
For you talking is probably nearly subconcous. You probably can talk while
doing other things and also you probably say things before you realize
you've
even formed a thought. Try this. Be very conscious of everything you say.
Do it in front of a mirror. Think about your facial expressions and your
body language» while keeping your tonality and your exact words in your mind.
This is a lot to think about and it should slow you down. Also breathe
between each sentence.
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Ross:
>Ron:
>If you are one of the bros that are still waiting for a refund from Bishop
>and thought you had no recourse - The Federal Trade Commission is the
>government agency that regulates Internet advertising. If you want to
>pursue the matter further, click on the link below and fill out the form.
> https://rn.ftc.gov/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01"
>Hope this helps some of the bros that have been ripped off.
>
>My Comment: From what I understand, Bishop has been able to deliver an
>e-book
>but returning money is a problem. Given that someone has ordered it and by
>requesting their money back they are changing their minds, it seems to me
>that the smart thing to do would be to take the e-book rather than nothing
>or to start making complaints and getting involved in chasing after someone
>(which just takes your time and energy, which should be worth more than
what
>you've already paid to Bishop).
With all due respect to you, Cliff...this being your list, your say, your
rules...I think you are mis-stating things.
NOBODY "changed their minds" on Bishop. EVERYONE originally ordered
a hard-copy book. Bishop didn't deliver. HE offered people a choice
of an e-book or a refund. HE changed the terms and did not perform.
To state "returning money is a problem" is to obscure the fact that,
once again, BISHOP ISN'T MAKING GOOD ON A PROMISE. If "returning
money is a "problem" he never should have offered the refunds as a
choice.
Returning money isn't a "problem". It is something he ISN'T DOING.
Something he apparently had a history of, which is not performing as
promised and not following through, well before I ever knew him. Had
I known, I never would have let him into my inner circle.
Now, he's cheated and conned people and continues to fail to
perform and it seems to me you are inadvertently defending him. HE
TOOK MONEY, DIDN'T DELIVER WHAT HE PROMISED AND NOW EITHER WON'T OR CAN'T
GIVE THE MONEY BACK OR GIVE WHAT HE PROMISED.
I don't think anyone will ever see a penny from him, personally,
and I don't think the FTC would get involved over such small amounts
of money. But to frame it as Bishop's customers "changing their
minds" is an incredible, if inadvertent, whitewash of his inexcusably
fraudulent actions.
My Comment: All I really wanted to say was that it seems to a good idea to
take the e-book rather than nothing. What I meant about the people buying
changing their minds is that, ok, they aren't being offered the product in
the form that they ordered it, but they did order it and apparently can get
it in some form rather than ask for their money back (which it seems clear
they won't get anyway). I don't think at this point in time there's any
question that Bishop is not delivering on his promises which is unfortunate.
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| cliff’s list advertisment section |
| Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are
just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links
to these emails. The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take
over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such
as proper mailing list software) for this list. If you were going to buy the product
anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going
at no extra cost to anyone. NON SEDUCTION-RELATED:
RECOMMENDED:
NOT REVIEWED YET:
|
| cliff’s free plugs section |
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all
recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back
here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up —
from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of
weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):
|
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