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They were indeed very plump and juicy looking
9/6/01 11:03:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time
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Mtl-Pua:
MTL_PUA commenting on Stephane's comments:
("Yesterday afternoon, a few of us went over to David's house for a
'seminar'.")
This was one of THE MOST enlightening experiences I have had. The guy is
PURE GENIUS. He makes many valid points, some of which are discussed
below. I field tested some of this stuff that same evening, so a lot of
this is backed up by actual experience. I am a strong believer in trying,
followed by sharing.
One thing to keep in mind Some of the stuff that David says might come off
a bit strong, and asshole-like. Rest assured that it IS NOT the case. These
concepts work only if coupled with some charm.
(Commenting on ""So he goes, "You see guys, this is what I'm talking
about. You guys are all such fuckin' PUSSIES! If you comply with women's
wishes so easily, you're going to get crushed."")
This was the pivotal point of the "seminar". One of the issues that David
cannot stress enough is the WOMEN control MEN (nothing new), but they do so
at every level. His argument is that if control is LOST by the man than so
is the respect and attraction. You basically become what SHE wants you to
be, rather than what YOU want to be. Once they have you roped at that level
(meaning that THEY control YOU), their attraction shifts to the next guy
that can be a challenge. I think we all know that at one level or another."):
The moral Stay on top of your game and challenge EVERYTHING she says. Keep
her on her toes, and DO NOT LOSE CONTROL of the situation; EVER.
(Commenting on "(""He talks a lot about being in control, and stresses the
importance of
always having the upper hand, always being in the lead."):
Figure it this way: Why are most men attracted to some chyck they cannot
have? And why are they NOT attracted to the one that WORSHIPS them and is
willing to do ANYTHING for them? We have all been though this; once you
know you can CONTROL a person, you just lose interest. Too easy. We need a
challenge.
That is where being in control comes into play. If you are in control, and
challenging HER, then she ends up working to get YOU.
THE FIELD TEST:
So last night, I went to pickup this chyck I met a few weeks ago. She
ditched me for drinks back then (never showed up), so I figure she is IDEAL
to test this stuff out. Why? because I start on the losing end (I called; I
asked her out; I drive, etc...). The purpose is to re-gain the upper hand.
She accepts to join me for drinks this time, after I call her up. I show up
at her house in jeans & t-shirt.
She gets into the car and says she wants to go to Shed Cafe. I tell her
that we are going to the nearest tavern we can find (nicely). She says that
that's not her idea of a good time or a classy place, and my rebuttal is
that it will be fun because it IS my idea of a good time, and taverns are
great places in general. She turns pissed/bitchy at this point.
I spot this tavern that looks like a shithole, and we go in. There are 5
people in there, and the place is a total dump. We sit, and she says that
this place sucks (arguably right, but I do not give in). I just brush off
the comment, and have her sit down, and go play a game of pool with the
winner of the last game. I get back to our table. This is where the
interesting part starts (remember, always speaking in a calm and rational
tone).
HER So you brought me here and you are ignoring me. That's nice.
ME I am NOT ignoring you. I was playing pool.
HER Well, you let me sit here all alone
ME You are a big girl. You can take care of yourself.
HER I want to leave NOW.
ME Okay, have a good night! (turn away from her; start walking towards the
pool table again)
Now I think that it is lost and all that David said just didn't work out
this time. Whatever. But listen up.
HER (comes towards me from behind) Well.....????
ME (turn around) What's up? Did you forget something?
HER Aren't you going to drive me home?
ME No.
HER But I want to leave.
ME Well, I told you can leave if you want to. I am not going to interrupt
my night to drive you home, doll. I invited you to see if I wanted to get
to know you better and now I have my answer. Now you can stay, and hang out
with me, or you can leave and go back home. Up to you.
This was BY FAR the most direct comment I have EVER made to a woman. I
seriously thought she was going to leave.
HER So what was your answer?
ME What?
HER Your answer. Do you want to get to know me better?
ME Not if you leave.
HER Okay then I will stay.
The rest of the evening was some straight convo, and I got an awesome kiss
close at the end of the night, but I am certain that the quick part above
is what made the difference. I am also sure she stayed for the simple
reason that she wanted to know if she could re-gain control over the
situation. Mind you, I was completely surprised that this worked.
(Commenting on: "The most important idea that I got from him was simple,
yet very powerful.
"Do not concern yourself with what she is thinking, because you never know
what she could be thinking in that pretty little head of hers. Don't
bother. Be concerned only with what it is that YOU want. And if she can't
handle it, then who needs her!" And most men, including myself, have
always been concerned with this. "What will she THINK if I do this, what
will she say if I do that." I now view this as my biggest handicap, and
realize how deeply embedded this is. And as I pull up my 'timeline' and
see all the times I successfully got a girl in bed, those were the times
that I didn't hesitate, and just went for it. I've gotten away with a
couple of things in my life that, to this day, as I look back on them, I
can't believe I pulled them off! Sometimes it's nice to discover that you
still have the ability to surprise yourself."):
This was also an interesting point. Too often I used to approach women
putting too much thought into it. What opener? Is she neggable? etc... WHAT
WILL SHE THINK if I use this line. However, this is probably the HARDEST
thing to modify within a person. It's so deeply embedded that you end up
thinking about it at a sub-conscious level. Again, being spontaneous will
work in your favor. Good quality to have or develop.
(Commenting on: "And this brings me to how David handles "LJBF". He just
says, "Fine. You
wanna be just friends? OK! Then be a good friend and get me some pussy!
Introduce me to some good women. After all, that's what friends do, isn't it?"
One of us yesterday (I won't say who, I'll let him ID himself here if he
wants to) met up with a girl for a second date. The date was getting
nowhere fast so he tried it and it worked like magic. He just looked at
her and calmly said, "Look. This is now our second date, and there's
obviously not much 'spark' between us. So do you think you can be a good
friend.and introduce me to some women I can actually sleep with?"
HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
She said, "I don't want you sleeping with my friends! I want you all to
myself!" So he took her to her car and fooled around with her. He went
from "Nothing's really happening" to almost fucking the poor girl in 20
SECONDS."):
This was my little field-test right after we left David's place last
weekend. I went to see a chyck I ran into awhile ago. Nothing too good
happening. The convo was more like this:
ME So listen, this is the second time I see you and there doesn't seem to
be a spark between us. We just don't seem to click.
HER Maybe we should just leave it a friendship level.
ME You have to promise to be a GOOD friend to ME.
HER What do you mean?
ME Well, if we are going to be GOOD FRIENDS, you are going to introduce me
to women I can sleep with. Do you have friends that are beddable?
HER WHAT???? Are you serious???
ME You heard me right. My friends are people who HELP me live my life the
way I WANT TO, so you have to help me in that direction if we are going to
be friends.
HER I don't want you to sleep with my friends!!!! I
want you for myself!
There are a few things here. First, there is definitely an embedded SOI in
this line. You are directly telling her what you want out of life. You want
to have great sex, with desirable, fun & adventurous women. Furthermore,
you are putting her on the spot to make a decision. You will be with me, or
the ONLY OTHER WAY to be with me is by helping me get laid. Very powerful
stuff. If she can't do one or the other, you don't want her as a friend.
David put it as follows: If you are my friend, and you know that there is a
chyck I can lay, would you introduce her to me? OF COURSE! There should be
no difference with female "buddies". This is a good one. I like it. It's a
perfect fit into my sarging style.
(Commenting on: "And this attitude is very
apparent in the way he moves, the way he talks. He has mastered the art of
confidence, and that is a rare thing."):
Yet another KEY POINT. When Steph said that David was NOT MUCH TO LOOK AT,
he was so right. However, the guy OOZES of confidence. I definitely think
that this is his main trait. We were 6 guys TOTALLY into what he was
saying, and he had control over us. We were totally into it. he does the
same thing with women. Just gets them LOCKED into what he is saying. It's
awesome!
(Commenting on: "Another thing that he teaches, is what to do after a
one-night stand. A
lot of guys worry about calling her too soon, or too late. But David is
also a gentleman. He will call her the next morning, or just show up at
her door and give her a rose. Then he tells her how much he enjoyed being
with her, and how he is looking forward to spending some more time with
her. He does this to make sure she doesn't get too insecure, so it wasn't
just sex, it was romance as well. And right after he does this, he is on
his way. And he didn't say this, but I know enough to say that if she said
'thank you and come on in', he would tell her that he is busy. Be in
control, always. Women need to be led. Give them the steering wheel and
you will crash. "):
FIELD TESTED THIS that same night (Sunday; same day we all went to Dave's
place), I ran into HBGlobe (I had met her at a bar called Globe with
Cliffy), and ended up fclosing her. Nothing much to report, as it was your
standard close. Met her Saturday at the bar with Cliff, ran into her again
at a different spot that same night, and ran into her again on Sunday
night. Pulled the classic "This MUST be more than coincidence", a quick IC
pattern and she took me to her place.
All in all, I did NOT have great rapport with her, and she was fishing for
a lay, so there is nothing to be proud of here. However, when I woke up
the next morning, I went out, bought a rose from a street vendor, and wrote
her a little message on a card. Just this "A little gift that symbolizes
the great time we had together, and how GREAT you made me feel last night".
30 minutes later, she called and asked me to come over again, because the
rose was the MOST thoughtful thing anyone had ever given her. AWESOME
TACTIC HERE! I must say that this WORKS. I told her that I could NOT make
it back, as I had work to do (never lose control). She called me 4 times
since then. I don't think this would have happened had I not pulled that
final move. PURE GOLD gentlemen, PURE GOLD!
(Commenting on: "I don't remember much about his case-specific 'tricks' for
handling women,
all I really remember was his overall attitude. And I hope that this
report conveyed it well. If you ever get the chance to meet David, you
should."):
Agreed. The tricks are not as important as the overall concept of what he
was saying. As for myself, I am totally happy that we met David. This was
an ENORMOUS eye opener for me, as I am sure it was for the rest who were
present.
The one thing that I will NEVER forget: Control stays on YOUR side no
matter which way. The end justifies the means in this case.
(Commenting on: "In which of these two circumstances did you have all the
power? Stay away
from the word love, gentlemen. You've been warned."):
Good to hear that you brought this up. Let me share a story with you all. I
was in an exclusive LTR for 3 years of my life, and in the end I got fucked
over. Walked into a room where my GF was doing my 2 best friends (SHAFT!).
I want to keep this short, so I won't bore you with details. Just want to
contrast it with the above few points.
I was beating myself up for almost a year over this, but after I ran into
all of this PU material, I started understanding HOW THIS CAME ABOUT.
I ran into her a few days ago, and we end up going for coffee. While
talking, she brings up that whole episode, and apologizes for everything (I
had not spoken to her for over a year!). Anyways, I decide to ask her WHY
she did it, and she said that it was a for the 2 reasons listed below
1) I would do ANYTHING she would ask
2) I would tell her "I LOVE YOU" all the time
After this last weekend, I FINALLY GET IT. I lost control over the
relationship; gave up my power; I did not challenge her; She OWNED ME and
became disinterested. Furthermore, every time I was telling her that I
loved her, I was bringing up all of the times we got into fights and argued
over shit, triggering her automated "Do you really mean that?" response.
This degeneration into AFCness happened over a period of time, as I was not
like that when I met her. I was a total rebel with a punk band with my "I
don't give a shit attitude". When we went exclusive, I figured I had to
CHANGE, COMPLY and COMPROMISE. And that, gentlemen, was my biggest mistake.
Now, I finally get it. Never again.
New motto: It'll be a CHALLENGE for my future WIFE to keep me married ~LOL~
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Ross:
(Commenting on: "He talks a lot about being in control, and stresses the
importance of always having the upper hand, always being in the lead.
Always!"):
You know, that's a HELL of alot of work. Used judiciously, I see the power
of it, but ALWAYS? Christ on a Cuckoo clock...I don't WANT to make every
decision. At least long term, I'd like a woman with some kind of will of
her own.
ALWAYS needing to be in control hides a fear of being abandoned. No
thanks. Wrong place to start. As a good way to behave a good part of the
time, I love it. But all the time? TOO MUCH WORK! NO THANKS!
(Commenting on: "And as I pull up my ‘timeline’ and see all the times I
successfully got a girl in bed, those were the times that I didn't
hesitate, and just went for it. I've gotten away with a couple of things
in my life that, to this day, as I look back on them, I can't believe I
pulled them off! Sometimes it’s nice to discover that you still have the
ability to surprise yourself."):
This is all sound advice.
(Commenting on: "I'm no big shot SSer by any means, but I have had moments
where I've shined. Almost ALL of my successes have come down to this
attitude of “I don't care what YOU thought you wanted, Princess, because
THIS is what I want! And if you can't handle it, then goodbye.â€"):
Refusing to be cast in the role/image they want you in and instead creating
your own and inviting them to play a part in the film. I get it. And I agree.
But this ALWAYS needing to be on top...jeez.....
(Commenting on: "And this brings me to how David handles “LJBFâ€. He just
says, “Fine. You wanna be just friends? OK! Then be a good friend and
get me some pussy!
Introduce me to some good women. After all, that’s what friends do, isn't it?â€
One of us yesterday (I won't say who, I'll let him ID himself here if he
wants to) met up with a girl for a second date. The date was getting
nowhere fast so he tried it and it worked like magic. He just looked at
her and calmly said, “Look. This is now our second date, and there’s
obviously not much ‘spark’ between us. So do you think you can be a good
friend…and introduce me to some women I can actually sleep with?â€"):
I think that is priceless!
(Commenting on: "I forget where I got this great analogy, but it
demonstrates a lot of what David’s attitude is about (in my opinion) DO
NOT pet the cat because the cat enjoys it. Pet the cat because IT FEELS
GOOD TO YOUR HAND."):
Uh....dude, that is UNHEALTHY. You pet the cat because you also enjoy
seeing the cat enjoy herself. If you can't do that, you are going to be
one emotionally dead mother-fucker, no matter HOW wet your dick gets.
(Commenting on: "He talks a lot about being in control, and stresses the
importance of always having the upper hand, always being in the lead.
Always! And right down to the little, ‘unimportant’ things like where you
go eat. If she says McD’s, go to Harveys. If she wants to go to a nice,
upscale place, then put on your jeans and take her to a lower-scale
restaurant. Your attitude should say, “I'm going wherever I want to go,
and if you want to join me, you’re welcome to. I'm not about to change MY
lifestyle for YOU.â€"):
I've been thinking more about this. I think maybe what David is attempting
to say is that if YOU don't set what the overall agenda and power-balance
in the relationship is going to be...if YOU don't set the frame that the
relationship is going to be about YOU being the boss...then, by default,
SHE will set it.
See below...
(Commenting on: "“Do not concern yourself with what she is
thinking, because you never know what she could be thinking in that pretty
little head of hers. Don't bother. Be concerned only with what it is that
YOU want. And if she can't handle it, then who needs her!†And most men,
including myself, have always been concerned with this. “What will she
THINK if I do this, what will she say if I do that.†I now view this as my
biggest handicap, and realize how deeply embedded this is. And as I pull
up my ‘timeline’ and see all the times I successfully got a girl in bed,
those were the times that I didn't hesitate, and just went for it. I've
gotten away with a couple of things in my life that, to this day, as I look
back on them, I can't believe I pulled them off! Sometimes it’s nice to
discover that you still have the ability to surprise yourself."):
I think, another way to put this is; WHO is going to set the frame here? Is
she going to force ME into the frame of being her "buddy" or her "whipped
borefiend" or "boredom filler"? Or am **I** going to set the frame?
I think it is very important to make it clear whenever two people are
interacting SOMEONE is going to set the frame regarding the overall power
balance, the overall notion of who has what is valuable and who has to work
for it, etc. etc. etc.
It is VERY important to be aware of this dynamic; good, natural seducers
are all aware of it and all have their ways of handling it and explaining it.
Rick H., the guy who banged 5 girls at the same time, has ALWAYS been good
at setting the frame. And, if he can't set the frame and get the girl to
accept HIS frame, away he walks.
THAT is wise. THAT is smart.
However...
I don't think you have to ALWAYS contradict/deny/or not give a woman what
she wants to set up and maintain the right frame. Keeping her on her
toes...challenging her....making it clear that it is overall going to be
YOUR way is great. But ALWAYS needing to control down to every last tiny
detail is, I think, quite frankly exhausting and even counter-productive.
WITHIN THE FRAME OF HER GIVING ME PRIORITY, RESPECT AND WHAT I WANT, I have
no problem being giving, even kind in exchange. Seeing someone happy and
making them happy is part of what makes a relationship of any kind or
length fun for me, provided it is done within the frame I've set of me
getting priority, respect, etc. OUTSIDE OF THAT FRAME the same behavior is
quickly viewed as supplication.
As for not being concerned about what she thinks; the better way to think
of it is, don't let what you assume HER view of the "frame" is control what
YOUR view of the frame is! If you are thinking she "only wants to be
friends", fuck that, and set the frame that YOU are going to by-pass her
current reality, and take her into YOUR reality where you are wild
fuck-partners.
But how a woman thinks; her maps and models of the world...that can be and
is EXTREMELY useful for seduction. Set the frame, and within that, find
out as much as you can about what moves her, turns her on, etc. It's plain
stupid NOT to use that, even self-defeating.
So, not worrying about what she's thinking, intelligently translated means,
"Don't worry if at first she seems to want something other than what YOU
do. Use what you know about her to move her into YOUR frame and YOUR
outcome, and if you can't get it, move on!"
I'm not gainsaying David, but trying to add intelligence and clarity to
this.....
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GoneSavage:
Commenting on (Stephane "For example, he did manage to make me look very
silly. He just looked at me very casually and said, "Steph, can you just
get up for a sec?" I
thought nothing of it, and stood up. So he goes, "You see guys, this is
what I'm talking about. You guys are all such fuckin' PUSSIES! If
you comply with women's wishes so easily, you're going to get crushed."):
This goes right along with the Little Sister Frame. This is what I used
to do to my little sister. Tell her to do something pointless. Like tell
her to hold something, when I didn't even need my hands free. "Hey, hold
this for a minute..." Or tie my shoe or whatever. Then I say, "Hahaha I
OWN you!" Embarrasses her. It was always fun to get her over and over.
Here's a question for Sis and those who use the Little Sister Frame. How
do YOU transition from this into being sexual? It's a great attitude and
definitely allows casual comfort, but in my experience, in my field, it
usually hinders getting intimate. With me, it reduces lust so much that
often I don't even think about closing. Otherwise it's required a
noticeable phase shift to being sexual that is pretty awkward. I'm
trying to incorporate this frame more and more, especially since it's
something that has come natural for me growing up. I didn't consider this
when I first started learning what might be called more traditional or
more formal tool of seduction (romanticized patterns, poems, stories,
etc). Realizing that it's not an "either/or" but an "and," I just wonder
about other people's strategies for transitioning from
cocky/funny/ball-busting to passionate/lustful/sexual.
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Stephane:
OK, this isn’t much of a field report, cause I didn’t get LAID. However,
it’s still a significant breakthrough for my AFC ass, so I’m posting it.
I went out for a game of pool with my buddy Allen, 49. There was a young
couple playing next to us, and my buddy kept telling me that her tits were
throwing off his game. I had to agree that her tits were indeed very plump
and juicy looking.
I have never sarged a girl in front of her boyfriend before, but now that I
met David, I’m beginning to think anything’s possible. So I did.
Since her tits were on display, I began to STARE at them directly, HOPING
to get caught. I did! She looked at me, I smiled, and continued staring
at her tits. I did this for about 15 minutes, and she was beginning to
look at ME now. I couldn’t believe it. This tit staring thing goes
against 25 years of conditioning.
She got in my way as I was about to take my shot, and I think she may have
even done this DELIBERATELY. So I started in on her
(Clears throat) “Excuse me! You’re in my way!†then I looked at the
boyfriend and said, “You see what these women are doing to us?!†he
playfully agreed with me and we BOTH started in on her. I even started
listing my ‘theories’ about how women want to control us, and how they
secretly run the world, and why we needed to keep them in line.
20 minutes later they left. She winked at me and said goodbye to me in the
same tonality Marilyn Monroe used on JFK. I literally ‘got’ this girl by
staring at her tits and badgering her. I still can’t believe it.
Women put their best features on display for us to enjoy, and yet most of
us are afraid to look. Now, I’m learning to look! Why didn’t I think of
this??
Ross, what’s your opinion on this issue? I'm very new to alot of this and
your views on this tit staring thing would be much appreciated! Did anyone
else here know about this?
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