The Top Pickup Artist Forum On The Internet: Fast Seduction 101

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I believe in getting right down to the point
11/27/01 8:30:39 AM Eastern Standard Time

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Cliff's Comment:  Ryan came in last weekend from Ontario for a private
consultation with David.  Here is his comment "Thanks for setting the
meeting with David up. You were right, it was worth every penny."

If anyone is interested in either a phone or in person consultation, please
email me.

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Chad:  Check out the website www.sexforhealth.net.  This is mainly dealing
with sex for health but believe me the training is much, much more than
that!  The website is a very general overview of what is taught.

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Ross:
(Commenting on: "I have and continue to do so. I have studied SS for two
years. Guess what?
SS works, too! If PI does not work, then why does Ross include it in his
program? Why does Tom V. use the phrase "step into the person" to create
unconscious rapport? I'll tell you why. Because these men know what works!
I am in no way saying that PI is the magic bullet» for sucksex. You and I
agree that you have to go up to talk to the girl. Part of the reason I
don't go up to a girl and visualize something like "You want to have sex
with me," is because even with PI, you are not changing her model of the
world, and coming on too strong will scare her away. Although, I may do it
after increased rapport."):

Keep in mind that not everyone is open; you will NEVER get it down to the
point where 100% of the people respond. There has to be SOME openness in
them for it to work.
Guys who don't want to believe it and aren't willing to try it, so fuck
'em. Let them keep their dogma, I'll enjoy the pussy, thank you very much.

(Commenting on: "Lately, I've had a lot of fun thumb wrestling with my
girlfriend while attending weddings and other formal places where we've had
to sit quietly together. It is great because:
6) You get to hold hands and stimulate lots of nerves. The hand can be an
erogenous zone."):

Funny, I've been doing this alot lately with younger women. And, when we
start the wrestling, I always use my fingers and thumb to stimulate their
hand!  I'll joke around and go "oohh..this feels sooo good...I don't want to
fight you...I want to make you feel SOOO good...doesn't your hand feel YUMMY?

(Commenting on: "I did the same thing in school and graduated with Honours.
Old exams are  great for getting good grades. I would actually write down
and copy what was in my text books as a way of learning."):

This is great if you believe "learning" is about memorizing and passing
tests...sigh.

(Commenting on: "Here is my top 10 in no particular order:
5. giving her direction and leadership
7. asking her do things for me
8. frequent contact
9. challenging her opinions - saying no when it matters
10. persistence and not taking vagueness for an answer"):
Hey..I like number 10!

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Marco:
Are you sarging alone in NYC?  How much faster could you learn if you had
dozens of
skilled wingmen right there with you at your disposal?  New York City Team
Strike Force (NYCTSF) is a group of highly committed members dedicated to
the discovery of
"hyper-seduction" by APPLYING any and all tools available to us. We not
only discuss our best/worst principles, spotlight fellow New York pimps, do
demos and change-work, but we always GO OUT AND TEST what we learned out on
the pavement, where it all happens. Our
yahoo Jurassic Lair forum is one the BIGGEST in the world with nearly 100
members and we meet every 3-4 weeks to trade notes and hit the streets
together.  Although we have many high-profile members attending our
meetings (including Asiatic, Vinigarr, Mike2velli, Mearkin3, etc), Ross
Jeffries the guru of the seduction world - came by personally, to tell us
that what he heard and saw at our Lair was “pure GOLD!”  Now, this group is
not for everyone. If you are committed to taking ACTION and can make the
time to contribute YOUR share, welcome aboard. But if you've heard of us
and are at the point where you are willing to find out more, why not just
stop by this Sunday?  Our next roundtable takes place this Sunday, December
2nd @ 4 p.m. in midtown, with yours truly (leader of the NYCTSF), leading
all change-work and demo sessions.
To Join: NYC***e@ya***.com[ ? ]
For meeting details & location ONLY:  ohg***g@ya***.com[ ? ]

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Flying Dutchman:
This week I want to explain more about what I discovered about seduction
from using Target Learning, starting off by revealing two secrets to you
that separates a
true PUA from an AFC.
First, let me ask you a question. What do you guys think is THE ultimate
KEY SUCCESS
FACTOR in seducing a woman? Appearance? Confidence? Being cocky and funny?
No, the MOST important key success factor to get laid is NOT appearance or
being a jerk
or being funny or whatever. It is simply TALKING. That’s all there is to
it. Just TALK
to them. An AFC tries to seduce a women by looking cool, while in fact for
her he’s just
another wallflower. A PUA on the other hand doesn't care what she is
thinking of him and
just starts a light, friendly conversation.
This brings me to the second secret I want to let you know, and THIS is a
BIG one: FOR A PUA THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS REJECTION!!! Surprised? Well,
I cannot express how surprised I was when I heard this revelation from a
PUA friend! It opened a whole new world for me. Let me explain. In my
previous AFC years, I didn't have the guts to approach and talk to a girl,
just because I was too afraid to be rejected. Sounds familiar? Well, let me
tell you that rejection is a misconception, it's something that doesn't
have to exist.  It’s possible to NEVER get rejected!!!  Ok, ok, I will
explain this in detail. I found out that a real PUA never
gets rejected, because:
a) He doesn't close EVERY TIME he talks to a girl. For me, I think about
90% of my
approaches are now without a close. Most times because the HB isn't as
attractive or fun
as I thought she would be, or I didn't establish the amount of rapport for
a close right
away and decide to close her another time (i.e. an hour later) or maybe I
just want to
talk to her and nothing else (because I'm with my girlfriend,
whatever).  See what I
mean? An AFC feels a pressure to close every time he approaches a HB, while
a PUA most
of the time doesn't close when he approaches a HB. Why does a AFC feel
pressure and a
PUA doesn't??? Because an AFC tries to pick her up and a PUA just appears
to want a
casual talk and nothing else (see point b).
b) He DOESN'T APPEAR to pick her up. He just establishes a friendly
conversation using
a remark about her surroundings as a casual opener, listens to her, has fun
and is very
upbeat.
c) He doesn't close by asking for a DATE, but instead he offers her an
OPPORTUNITY. For instance, I never say: “Do you want to go out with me?”
but I present it
as an opportunity. Last week I talked to a HB a about how great it is to
ski on the slopes of
a white mountain, enjoying the speed, feeling the warmth of the sun on your
cheeks,
blah, blah (patterning). My enthusiastic story got her excited and I said:
“But before I
go on holiday, I have to refine my techniques. So next week I’m going to
(name of a
familiar and popular indoor ski centre in Holland) together with some
friends.” HB: “Oh,
sounds great.” Me: “You should join us next week! It'll be fun!” So she
gave me her
number to call her what time we would go. It’s really that easy! See, I
didn't ASK her.
I made a statement, an opportunity. It’s an invitation she simply HAS to
react to.
Ok, so what if she would say: “Well sounds fun, but I have some other
things to do”? I
would then just say: “Too bad. You would have loved it. Maybe some other
time” See? I didn't get rejected. She rejected the skiing opportunity, NOT
ME. And
believe me, next time you see her, express how great it was she'll be much
more
receptive.
d) If a girl however doesn't WANT to talk, he still didn't get rejected,
because she didn't want to TALK and he didn't CLOSE her. For me, I would
just leave her after a couple of minutes saying to myself: “Geez! SHE is
boring, SHE probably has her period, SHE must be a real bitch”. All with a
smile on my face and laughter in my heart. Cause I'm always happy that they
revealed their true personality so quickly. It saved me a lot of time and
some money too!
So don't be a wallflower and make the same mistake as I made. It took me
four years to
find out that rejection is something that doesn't have to exist. So there
is no need to
be afraid to approach a girl. Sure you'll feel a bit nervous in approaching
a girl,
but to me that’s excitement, not fear.
Ok, enough about that. I promised you to tell about Tom, one of the best
PUA I have ever
seen. A couple of years ago, a Belgian TV programme made a couple of
programmes about
Salou, a very popular hot spot at the Spanish cost. With TV cameras, they
followed a
couple of average guys and girls on their vacation to see how they picked
up girls / guys.
Tom was at that time working for a club called Flashback as a so called
‘propper’. A
propper is a guy who gets paid to attract women to a club. His job is to
approach women
on the street or on the beach and to convince them to visit the club.  Now
I have to mention that Tom is a very attractive guy to see, so he has an
advantage over other men. But nevertheless we can learn a lot from him.
First, his appearance, for I just mentioned his attractiveness. He’s got a
nice tan. He wears a hairstyle just a bit longer than all those short
models that average guys wear. This makes him look different. His clothes
are masculine, mostly black. He appears upbeat, fun loving, very confident
and at ease.   In an interview with Tom, the interviewer asked him what
made him so successful in seducing woman. Tom replied: “HAHAHA. You know, a
lot of guys ask me: What do you say to a girl? To me it’s very easy,
because I'm a propper. When I have to approach them on the beach or on the
street I just ask if they know the club Flashback yet.  Then when I see the
same girls later that night in the club, I just ask them if they are having
a good time. I then take it from there.”
Interviewer: “Don't you never get tired of your job as a propper?”
Tom: “Yeah sure! However, for the girls I am THE ideal guy in the clubbing
scene. And
therefore I have to keep acting. Keep on smiling, keep on appearing happy
although I'm not
always in that mood. But I get paid to entertain them. So that’s what I do.”

We then see Tom in action. I will describe one of his street approaches on
two HB's (the whole approach is in Dutch, so I translated it to English).
Tom: “Dutch?”
HB A: “Yes!”
HB B: “Ja! (is Dutch for yes)”
Tom: “Ja, yes??? Dutch?”
HB A (surprised): “Do you also speak Dutch?”
Tom: “Yes.”
HB B: “You are wearing a familiar scent.”
Tom: “Am I …”
HB A: “Yeah. Aqua di Gio, right?”
HB B: “Yes, it's delicious”
Tom is letting the girls smell his scent and says: “Voila! Delicious eh?”
(looks enthusiastic)
HB A and B: “Yeah!”
Tom: “Do you know Flashback?”
HB A: “Yes!”
Tom talking about happy hour, telling the girls they certainly should join
the party
tonight and then giving the HB's his card: “Here you are.”
(another couple of HB's are joining the two HB's (probably girlfriends),
so there are now four HB's around him.)
Tom to HB C and D: “Hello ladies”
HB C and D: “Hello”
HB C: “Are you from Belgium?”
Tom: “Yes, yes.” Then turning the subject back to them: “What city are
you from in Holland?”
HB C: “Arnhem” (city in Holland)
Tom: “Arnhem? All of you?”
HB A (interrupting): “You are a cute Belgian!”
Tom: “Am I a cute Belgian?” (looking playful)
HB's giggling
Tom is talking about Flashback again, saying they should be there tonight,
and hands out two extra cards.  The girls leave giggling and looking back
at him.
Now there some very important things I learned from what at first sight
seemed to be quite a simple approach:
1. An effective opener towards foreign girls is not straight out asking:
“Hello! Where are you from?” Instead, if you assume that the girl is
Spanish ask: “Hola!
Espanol?” Tom would usually follow up with “Que tal?” ("How do you do?" in
Spanish). This
is friendly, funny and creates a certain rapport because it's in her language.
2. Repeating her words by transforming her exact words into a question.
Notice how Tom does this. HB: “You’re a cute Belgian!” Tom: “Am I a cute
Belgian?” etc.
This is a technique I haven't yet read anywhere else, nor on newsletters
nor on
discussion groups.
However I discovered that it's something all Master Seducers do!!! I use it
in practise
too and I must say it's very effective, because it gives you the power in
the conversation and it forces the HB to talk. Remember this one!
3. Tom is expressing that he is a real gentlemen (“Here you are”, “Hello,
ladies”)
4. Tom looks playful and happy all the time. I cannot explain how to look
playful, but
appearing enthusiastic with a twinkle in your eyes comes very near.
5. Tom keeps deep eye contact with the girls ala Rasputin and gives them
his full
attention. It's almost frightening to see how long he keeps gazing into her
eyes. And he
doesn't let anything divert his attention.
I hope I gave you some new insights of seduction. Take advantage of it and
let me know
your results. Next time will be even more fun because I'll then describe
two different
beach approaches I recorded from the same programme. The first one is an
approach by a
real AFC, the second an approach by a real PUA. And everything is reality,
no acting
takes place. The differences however are so INCREDIBLE that it will show
you exactly what
to do and what mistakes to evade. As for now: keep on flying!

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Doctor Dwacon (http://www.sextoysex.com/sex/start/sex.html?a=dwacon):
(Commenting on: "DoctorDick: In any situation where there are other guys
around I always lose."):

I had an experience a year ago of walking into a club. I saw a beautiful
woman and paused to think up something to say to her. During that brief
moment, this other guy just comes up from behind me and walks up to her and
wound up engaging her the entire evening... I think they left together.
That reminded me of something important (that I still forget on occasion).
Ross J says to communicate with a purpose. I'd take that a step further and
say we should go out with a purpose. Or, put it in a Biblical sense... he
that seeketh shall findeth... he that knocketh it shall openeth.

(Commenting on: "Most of my friends are also higher ranking than I am.
"You have to wait until you move up rank, then nurses will want to shag you."):

Read up on the "40 foot man" and get a better image of yourself. Don't be
intimidated.

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Vini:  (Commenting on: "Also, what are people's favorite questions?")

I've got a question for ya HB...
Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, Lenny Kravitz... which would you marry, fuck, kill?
and if shes diggin' it, ask 2 more...on the third/last insert your name : )

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Stephane:
(Commenting on: "I really don't know what to do as in the area I live and
the social
situation I'm in, these are the type of environments I'm in constantly.  I
don't know how to knock other guys out of the water with efficiency and
smoothness.  Could someone please help me..."):

The situation you're in is tough.  If you're hanging around with guys that
are more 'alpha' than you, then try to think about how you can use this to
your advantage.  First, you can learn from these guys.  Second, you always
have the option of getting their leftovers : )

To me, if they're really your friends, they should at least try to fix you
up.  They sound like assholes.  Also, doctors that go around screwing their
nurses are violating the basic rule of 'don't shit where you eat' and they
are bound to come up dry eventually.

If I were you, I'd model them and try to beat them at their own game.  I
try to outdo my teachers, because I'm a cocky asshole.  But if these
doctors are too far out of your league, you might consider going solo or
making other friends.

(Commenting on:""You know I could not help to notice that you have great
breasts. They look quite appealing to me and turn me on. I would like to
see you naked and fuck your brains out and have you cum all over yourself"
- still the same message but the way it's said
provides her with an incongruity - you are being extremely forward and crude
but you are also being so in a highly gentleman-like manner. I'll test this
out on at least 20 women by telling them this as soon as I meet them and
then report the results."):

You're a real trooper Mark!  Keep up the good work.  Your post made me think
of something.  I think that alot of guys coming out of AFCness and learning
to say what's on their minds is great, but if it's not done with sincerity
then it's done with sarcasm.  Being honest and sincere takes alot of
personal strength, because you are making yourself
vulnerable.  Vulnerability is the single most beautiful quality that a
person can have, and I think vulnerability is often confused with being a
pussy or weak.  Quite the contrary.
Vulnerability takes alot of guts.

(Commenting on: "Here is a project we could work on in creating the
ultimate PUA: How about
we all provide the top 10 things that we do to get the highest success with
women? Then we look for the most common traits and assemble the composite
top 10 list.
Here is my top 10 in no particular order:
1. complimenting her
2. being up front with what I want right away
3. touching her a lot
4. expressing my opinions
5. giving her direction and leadership
6. deep thought provoking conversations
7. asking her do things for me
8. frequent contact
9. challenging her opinions - saying no when it matters
10. persistence and not taking vagueness for an answer."):
You nailed it right on the head.  Here's a few more to add to the list:
11. sense of humor
12. sex education (kama sutra, massage, etc.)
13. Telling her what my values and rules are
14. Being romantic

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Darren:  (Commenting on: "Gregory Rasputin: (Commenting on: "...laughed,
and I laughed even harder hearing about it. So, of course, this compliment
was bullshit, and it was obvious everyone knows it's bullshit, because
after all he's singing a Backstreet Boys song, but it was still funny
because he was pretending that all he said was true, and of course it was
flattering, and the humor increased that effect. Now this is a very
interesting way of complimenting, because it isn't supplicating, because
after all he is talking bullshit, but he still is complimenting her. I
mean, the words do come out of his mouth, and do assume a meaning in the
girl's head. Again, my assumption is that he was not genuine with his
"compliment." In effect, he is lying to get into her pants. To me, that IS
supplicating.

You got it wrong; first of all, he is NOT lying. He's acting like he made
the bbs song. How is that lying? If I told you I sang all the Bob Marley
songs in a joking tone, would that be lying? Both sides know it's bullshit,
it's just fun. The reason he's so called "lying" is not to get in her
pants, but to have fun. That joke was really funny, and was done for the
sake of being funny, there was no "buwahaha, after I say this to her she'll
let me in her pants" type thinking involved when he said that."):


It seems like you did not get my point. Of course, it's blatantly obvious
that he did not make up the song on the spot. That is not what I am
referring to as his dishonesty. What I object to is that his "compliment"
is not sincere. When I give a girl a compliment, it is something that I
genuinely feel. Sincerity is the key. I suspect that your friend is not
very sincere when he delivers these compliments. My point was that he
exaggerates his attraction and feelings for her, to make it funny, but the
girl actually thinks that he has sincere feelings and appreciation for her,
when, from your post, it seems as if he only treats them as objects or
property. Therefore, he is being INSINCERE or DISHONEST in his
"compliments" in order to get sex from her and then dump her out like an
object. To me, THAT is supplicating. I don't need to lie to a girl to make
her like me or have sex with me. It seems as if the GM style, as you
describe it, is dangerously close to just being a jerk, except it is done
with great humor, and this guy is not quite an asshole to a girl until
after he dumps her. Jerks also lie and deliver insincere compliments to
create and maintain attraction and get his dick wet. Just because it is
done with humor and cockiness, it doesn't mean that it's not supplicating.
Whenever you are dishonest or insincere to achieve your objectives with a
woman, or you think you can only achieve satisfaction by treating her as an
object or property and neglect leaving her better than you found her, I
think you are operating from a WEAK and supplicating frame.

Cliff's Comment:  For the record, "supplicating" is to propose from a
junior position.  This term seems to have been endowed with many different
meanings since it was brought up in the context of seduction, but it does
have a specific meaning and not in the way it is used above.

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Mark B.:
Report from the field.
I have approached about 10 women with this opening line "Hi. I could not
help but notice you. I think you are hot". Their typical response has been
surprise and with a smile and a thanks for my compliments. Then I say "You
know a lot of guys would now make small talk and b.s. their way in by
beating around the bush. I believe in getting right down to the point. I
think you are hot, I want to take you out, get to know you and have nights
filled with passion with you." I have had smiles over this coupled with
comments about how courageous this approach really is. The result - three
with boyfriends, one who has a husband, three who are single, three who did
not say what their status was. Two with boyfriends were open to fucking
around on him and agreed to talk to get together later. Two of the three
single ones agreed to get together. The married one said we can keep in
contact and exchange e-mail.  One with boyfriend said she is not
interested. One single one said she is not interested in relationship now.
The three that did not say what their status was - one agreed to talk on
the phone, one said she did not want that
kind of relationship and another one said she wants to take her time
getting to know the guy and that she was busy and had no time right
now.   I countered any objection to "I have a boyfriend or husband" by
saying "I do not care that you do and I am no interested in being your
boyfriend or husband. I just want to have a casual sexual relationship with
you". If they said they were busy "I will not take too much of your time. I
just want to have fun with you that could only take a few hours at a
time."   Basically what I noticed here is that when I go for something that
I want
first I am much more successful at getting it. By doing so I have set the
frame for the nature of the relationship. This is important because once
you set the basis for the nature of the relationship it's difficult, if not
impossible to change it. This is the reason why many AFC's remain average,
frustrated and chumps. They wait to make it known what they want allowing
the woman to set her own desired frame for the relationship which is
usually friendship or a sugar daddy. This is very counter intuitive because
we have been conditioned to think that we need to establish rapport first
and then strike but over the time of establishing rapport we allow the
other party to set their frame for the nature of the relationship. I have
found through experience to go for what you want first before the other
party has a chance to assert their needs upon you. If you allow them to
assert what they want before you do when you express what you want, your
wishes clash with theirs and they perceive conflict and that you are not
interested in their needs. But it seems when you go for what you want
before they have a chance to make it known what they want you have no
conflict and hence stand more likely to get what you want - blow job,
fucking or whatever.  The important thing to remember is that with this
approach you do not know what she is thinking or what her status is nor do
you really care. When you go for what you want immediately, if they object
to you or express a concern
you should be prepared to back track and deal with their objection or
concern right away. The other important point is to be a gentlemen and come
off as articulate and well behaved.
Looking back at my biggest successes with women I realize now that I just
went for what I wanted right away and consequently biggest failures
occurred when I waited to go for what I wanted. My biggest success -
getting a feature stripper Ms. Nude Exotic World pageant winner to spend a
whole weekend away with me within two weeks of meeting her after picking
her up at the bar. I told her I wanted go out with her before she even said
one word to me.
My biggest failure - 6 months of dating and being "just friends" with a
woman and getting nothing because I let her decide first what she wanted
and went along.  So setting the frame first is key, then everything falls
into place.

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James: For the bros out there SSing and PUAing Scandinavian gals: Has
anyone who has experience picking up chycks in Sweden and Scandinavia have
any remarks or suggestions with regards to these women? Some of the hottest
chycks in Europe can be found in Sweden, but
aren't exactly eager to get to know a guy, even if he is American. Are
there any bros who may be aware of cultural differences with regards to
dating, etc.?  Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

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Halbster:  I went to Rutgers University to use the library today. While I
was there I
stopped in a cafeteria. I approached a pretty girl there and said "Excuse
me, every time I look at you I can't help but think that despite the fact
that you're very pretty (she gave a big smile) you must have a lot of
difficulty meeting guys." She responded "Why is that?" I told her that the
calculator that she was carrying probably frightens them away. It was the
largest calculator I'd ever seen. It was like a NASA calculator on
steroids, and it probably frightens off most guys faster than herpes on a
circus fat lady with a mustache. She laughed. I then said "It must be a
real challenge to show that beyond your intelligence there exists a woman
(pause), a cool woman who likes to do exciting things and have
fun."  Although I was getting great responses I ended it at this point
because I had a lot of work to do. I just thought I'd pass this opening
along because I think it has potential and it can be fun to use.

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Chris:
Review...Serpent Secrets: SAVE YOUR MONEY!!!
$79 for a 2 page e-book that talks about the serpents seduction of Eve and
some instructions on a chakra meditation to put you in an altered state and
create an energy that will make you more appealing.  It does come with a 30
money back guarantee interestingly enough which I have already requested.
Now to see if they honor it.

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INFORMATION ABOUT THIS NEWSLETTER ARCHIVE:
This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to cli***f@cl***.com^{[ ? ]} and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction^»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting http://www.seduction.com/.  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at http://www.fastseduction.com/cliff/.

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

DISCLAIMERS:
This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the fastseduction.com webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of fastseduction.com.  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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