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So I take her to my place
12/16/01 11:58:27 AM Eastern Standard Time
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Cliff's Comments:
Firstly, if you are in Montreal, please contact me and get on my Montreal
email list. There are sometimes events that happen here that aren't
mentioned on this list because they are too local (such as there's a
meeting of Montreal SS'ers & PUA's tonight (Sunday, Dec. 16, 2001) at
Carlos & Pepe's downtown at 7:00 pm that you would have known about if you
were on that list.
Secondly, here are a few interesting links (copied from Mystery's Lounge -
see below for info on how to get into Mystery's Lounge):
http://www.passwordshq.com - All the hacked porn you can download.
http://www.scentiments.com - Someone researched the other fragrance sites
and says this one is consistently 20 to 30 dollars cheaper per bottle.
http://www.seductionnow.com - This site has a lot of links and it contains
pretty much all that an aspiring PUA needs to know.
And finally this one (not from Mystery's Lounge): http://www.ShesSingle.com
This is a pretty interesting dating site because it is geared only to good
looking people. If someone wants to check it out and let us know what you
find, that would be great.
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The following is an edited version of a lengthy exchange between Mark B.
and Ross that went on over emails:
(Commenting on: "MB: I believe this happens because he is really cute and
sexy to her even if not to us and it has to do with the fact that he may be
really her type
irrespective of other factors. In other words, if he is fat and ugly and
she is with him, it's because that is what attracts her physically. I
seriously doubt that he can win her over if there is no attraction
whatsoever and if he is not her type purely on the basis of personality or
"techniques.""):
RJ: From your perspective, you are right, but from another, you are wrong.
MB: There are no absolute rights or wrongs, only opinions.
RJ: From the frame of reference of someone WITHOUT the tools or
understanding to build an airplane and fly it, FLIGHT seems impossible. So,
from your
frame, you are RIGHT. From the frame of those who DO know how and USE the
tools, you are wrong.
How do women, internally recognize they are meeting someone who is their
"type"? How do women RECOGNIZE for themselves, that they ARE "attracted" to
someone? That is the question you are ignoring.
MB: As men we can never know but only assume based on what we see and what
they tell us. But in my experience, physical attraction must exist as well
as a connection for the complete attraction to develop and last.
RJ: But how does a woman KNOW she is attracted to a guy? In fact, if you
know how to ask the question, you'll find out. Almost always the sequence
involves:
butterflies in the tummy feeling
a flush of warmth goes up the chest and into the face
they make a sound to themselves something like a moan or a sigh
They picture being touched/kissed/fucked by the guy
Their throat gets tight
They feel the warmth flush and rush back down to their crotch...they get a
burning, itching, needy feeling down there.
THAT is the sequence for most of them. If you know how to re-count/revivify,
get them to run that sequence, ALL OF THE BELLS GO OFF AND BOOM: YOU HAVE
THE ATTRACTION.
MB: Yes, these must exist but the problem is that there are also feelings
they feel to equal revulsion and disgust and they produce equally strong
reactions in a woman. What happens if you elicit those before you have a
chance to have her feel the good feelings? Also, even if you can make her
feel these feelings how can you attach them to you if she just does not see
you in that light? Pretty tough to do in my view.
RJ: It's common for myself and my students to get women who did not feel
the SLIGHTEST attraction to us at first sight. I sleep with women 20 years
younger than me, who have told me, later, that at first, before I opened my
mouth, THEY THOUGHT I WAS UGLY. Or, even as bad, that I WAS NOT THEIR "TYPE".
MB: There is a big difference between attraction and physical beauty. We
can all cite examples of ourselves and other men and women who were
attracted to people that were ugly or not beautiful and not attracted to
men and women who were gorgeous. Thus you can easily find women who will be
attracted to you even though you may not possess great personal beauty in
the common sense. You are discounting your value by assuming that you need
to be
beautiful to be attractive to someone. You do as I and surely many others
can recall times when we felt attraction to "ugly" people. Therefore, it's
too simple to assume just because one is ugly he is not attractive and the
only way to elicit attraction is through patterns or hypnosis. It may
already be there and all it takes is developing a comfort level with the
woman and making your intent known as well as your availability and
interest in her and she is yours.
RJ: I am reminded of the guy who thinks martial arts are impossible or
unnecessary, because he believes that if you have brute size and strength
you can win a fight against someone untrained simply by falling on them or
belting them once.
MB: I am not going into absolutes. What you are saying is that you can turn
a blind man into a sharpshooter or a Rosie O'Donnell into a ballerina. Like
in all others things in this world,
we need capacity first before you can develop potential. Try making a Sumo
wrestler into a contortionist.
(Commenting on: "MB: I know a black woman who only dated and was attracted
to white men. Then she met a half black half white guy who would not leave
her alone, kept calling her, telling her how much he likes her on and
on...He then told her a sad ass story about how rough he has it living at
home and whether he could move in with her into her spare room. She agreed.
While living there he took great interest in her 2 year old daughter and
she realized this guy could be
a good father substitute. She fell in love and they began sleeping together
within two months of him moving in. She said she became attracted to him
based on her love for him. Over time he lost weight, got himself into great
shape and had all the neighbourhood women after him. So far so good right?
WRONG - after 4 years of this she said she began losing attraction for him
and suggested they sleep in separate beds and not fuck until marriage.
RJ: SO the ENTIRE experience and "attraction" she felt gets negated and
NEVER existed because she CEASED being attracted to him at some point? By
your reasoning, with EVERY marriage or relationship that fails based on the
attraction petering out, it MUST be because the attraction was NEVER real
to begin with.
MB (Continuing): I don't see things as absolutes. There were other factors
such as him being neglectful of her but we all know women who fuck their
ex-boyfriends because they are physically attracted to them but they do not
fulfill their other needs and want nothing else to do with them. She lost
faith in him as a man and refused to sleep with him. She could have
just as well continued fucking him but her attraction to him was never
really fully there so even that did not happen. She said she did not really
see him as a man and really had no attraction to him but saw him as a
friend. Marriage never came as she met me and began sleeping with me behind
his back and buddy went out the door a few months later. He to this day
wants her back. Moral of the story is you better have attraction to you
from a woman that comes naturally or else your success will be temporary as
in the case of buddy boy here."
RJ: I don't get that conclusion at all; I get he failed to maintain her
interest and attraction. How do you explain NATURAL attractions that peter
out?
MB: I explain that by suggesting that the other person does something that
makes them unattractive such as having a certain smell, acting weak, not
being responsible, whatever.
RJ: When a woman looks at you and is immediately attracted, HOW DOES SHE
KNOW? How does she signal herself she wants you? I didn't ask, notice, what
YOU
have that makes them generate the signal. I didn't discuss a better tan,
leaner muscle. I asked about what happens INSIDE her that let's her have
the recognition that these things ARE attractive to her.
MB: She has the physiological responses you mention. Just as I salivate at
the sight of a juicy steak or you at the sight of a hot young babe, these
reactions are involuntary. You can easily invoke thoughts of these feelings
and even make a woman feel them but attaching them to you is the big
problem if she does not have the capacity to naturally attach them to you
"Houston
we have a problem."
RJ: No, attaching them to you is NOT a problem for students of SS who
understand how to do it. It is a problem for everyone who doesn't know
how. The solution, my friend, is called ANCHORING. You can learn many fun
and easy ways to do so at:
http://www.essential-skills.com/ My buddy Tom Vizzini needs to jump in here
and talk about this.
(Commenting on: "MB: Do you think these things are voluntary? Does she make
a conscious decision to be attracted to anyone?"):
RJ: They don't need to be voluntary for them to work; they just need to be
evoked. The issue isn't "are they voluntary." The issue is, DO the signals
exist for her ON some level of consciousness, and can we get access to
those signals, trigger them off, to get the responses we want? The plain
answer is "yes." All sorts of outside of conscious awareness "things" and
processes can be and routinely ARE triggered by suggestion, trance,
hypnosis,etc.
MB: You can make a woman feel these things but she will think of someone she
is attracted to physically.
RJ: Not if you link it to yourself. This is a proven, tested part of the SS
technology. Again, if you can't do it, don't assume others can't.
MB: I actually discussed this very issue with about 10 women in the last
few days and they all admitted they would sleep with an ugly guy who they
found attractive but would not even if he was gorgeous but they had no
attraction no matter what sorts of feelings of attraction he
invoked. Can you make yourself not attracted to Pam Anderson?
RJ: News flash: I met "plastic Pam" in the flesh and found her utterly
revolting. She doesn't even appear to be alive; she reminded me of nothing
so much as a mannequin with a little person inside, in a hidden
compartment, pulling the levers to make her work. Given a sufficiently good
trance, I could have you respond to a fat, ugly, hairy woman with the SAME
physiological cues you'd give off with Pam Anderson or whomever trips your
trigger...granted, it would have to be a damn DEEP trance, but we COULD get
there. In fact, all sorts of INVOLUNTARY things like blood flow, blood
pressure, skin temperature and the like can be "controlled" through trance.
MB: Maybe you could but I would not attach those feelings to her when in a
conscious state. If I did respond to her it would not be voluntary hence
the "drug in the drink" metaphor. Besides we want to be with people who are
with us because of us not on the basis of some altered state. Attraction
just happens based on her genetic programming, social conditioning,
experience and a whole host of other factors.
RJ: ATTRACTION is not a "thing". It is a response, involving a process.
Know the process, reproduce the process. But thinking in terms of
processes, not concrete "things" requires the ability to think
"abstractly." As for genetic programming; this is bad science. In fact,
genes are NOT self-emergent. GENES ONLY ACTIVATE IN RESPONSE TO A SIGNAL
FROM THE ENVIRONMENT. The messenger molecules that bring these signals work
by electro-chemically altering the shape of the proteins that cover the
genes. The proteins cover the genes like a sleeve, preventing them from
being read. When the messenger molecules pull back the protein sleeves,
ONLY then does the gene get activated. The proteins respond 100 times more
effectively to electro-magnetic frequencies than they do to the physical
messenger molecules. Yes, we can make an electro-magnetic analog to the
physical molecule that works 100 times better; the proteins RESPOND TO THE
SIGNAL even though it is NOT in electro-chemical "natural" form and respond
100 times better. (Why? Because chemical reactions lose a great deal of
energy to heat, plus chemical reactions move slowly; electro-magnetic
signals move at the speed of light; 186,000 miles per second). For more on
what really happens with genes, go to: http://www.brucelipton.com/
MB: However, the protein needs to have the necessary receptors and thus
capacity to be altered by the electro magnetic signal that you are sending.
RJ: The human neurology and brain have more than enough "receptors" for any
states/feelings/emotions you wish to evoke and create.
MB: Think of it this way. If you sending the strongest radio signal to a
television antenna you are not going to get a response. In addition you
make it seem as if the individual has no conscious control over their
chemical response which is not true. Medical literature is filled with
cases of individuals responding extraordinarily well to treatment which
otherwise takes longer in the average person simply on the basis of their
will. Other studies have shown hypothermia victims surviving more than
otherwise possible in cold water on the basis of their will. People
displaying superhuman strength otherwise not possible to lift a car to get
their children out from below. You suggest these are involuntary responses
- yes, it's true you cannot help but think of swimming in an ocean when you
read "swimming in an ocean" but to motivate yourself to actually do it you
need to have the capacity and desire to go ahead. Similarly if a woman just
did not find you attractive by sheer strength of her conviction nothing you
could do could turn her around. You can if you can elicit in her feelings
of attraction. You better be able to hold them because once they start to
dip you are finished as buddy boy in my story above. It seems to me that SS
is a temporary solution to a permanent problem when no attraction exists to
begin with."):
RJ: Whatever and wherever that takes place in her body IS the signal for
her that triggers the recognition and ALL THE BEHAVIOR THAT GOES WITH IT
(fucking you, wanting to fuck you, flirting, offering her number,
etc.). Get her, using language and energy, to FEEL THAT SIGNAL and she
WILL identify you as someone who "is her type" or someone who "she IS
attracted to" because she's trained herself to act that way and think that
way, once she recognizes the signals she gives herself. She will then
RATIONALIZE the entire thing as being natural, when in fact, it was engineered.
(Commenting on: "MB: That's fine but you are ignoring the fact that these
occur when she is the least bit attracted to someone. If she is not then
she will see these feelings as incongruent with her physical attraction.
She'll say "this guy is not my type but why do I feel attraction? Something
is wrong here" or you may be actually able to get her but once she "glow"
wears off you are done.......Kira Kenner, a stunning porn star, said in an
interview once, that she prefers
men with large beer bellies because she likes the warmth of a big gut and
that is sexy to her. http://www.2xtreme.net/stuff/angel/kirakener.html"):
RJ: Great, that is HER personal peccadillo. Notice, it is the FEELING of
the warmth and NOT the actual belly. Give her the same warmth, even amp it
up, and she'll bang ya!
(Commenting on: "MB: A few weeks ago I was listening to a radio program
which features men who love fat women, the fatter the better. If men can
have those sorts of perverse attractions, why should we assume that some
beautiful women would not find some fat men or men out of the norm of
attractiveness equally attractive and assume that these men were only able
to get them on the basis of personality, patterns etc?"):
RJ: Some will, but even then, you are IGNORING the internal signaling
process she goes through. Hijack the process, get the behavior, regardless
if you really HAVE the external look, whether that is fat, muscles, pale,
tan or anything else.
MB: Dictionary.com has the following definition for hijack - To stop and
rob, To steal from as if by hijacking, To swindle or subject to
extortion. Is this really what you want to do to women?
Cliff's Comment: Besides all's fair in love and war, I don't think that
you are realistic here. Many of us have been in the situation where we
were seeing someone and some other guy came around and got her attention -
is that stealing? Or, no matter how it was done, isn't it really her
individual choice that is ultimately responsible for who a woman goes with
and how she treats someone she may be seeing? If she decides to go with
someone new because he excited her (or elicited the right responses), that
happens every day and I don't know if you can equate that with "stealing."
(Commenting on: "MB: Women, just like men, know whether or not they are
attracted to someone when they first meet them."):
RJ: You are missing the implications of that statement. You aren't looking
deeply enough. HOW do they know? Not what the man has that they are
attracted to. But HOW do they let themselves know it?
MB: Women, as well as men, given enough time to see you know whether they are
attracted and they also know whether are not you are ugly or beautiful. The
two are mutually exclusive and do not depend on each other as you imply.
RJ: Who said I would "tell her"? I could help her to induce those feelings
in a guided visualization, amp them up and make them stronger than she's
ever "naturally" had them.
MB: Sure you can get her to feel them but like I said if she already does
not have the capacity to attach them to you if you amp them high enough she
will feel incongruence. The point is that SS and NLP is likely to enhance
what is already there but if you have nothing to begin with you end with
nothing in the end no matter what you do. 0 times any number is still 0.
RJ: You are dancing around the issue: how you use language to evoke these
feelings IS something.You seem to think that because you can't/don't/won't
use language to do
so, that none of the rest of us can/should/would. You are just plain wrong.
MB: It's much easier to say to her after you have built up trust rapport "I
would like to make passionate love to you all night long" rather than "Have
you ever made passionate love all night long..." This way she knows it's
about you and her and she can imagine the two of you doing it together
rather than with some other guy in the past and then she looks at you and
thinks "this guy does not come close to the guy I just imagined".
RJ: Well, what you HAVE is rapport and the ability to gather
info/elict/evoke/amp up the signals and processes that tell her "BANG THIS
GUY." No "attraction" to start with does NOT mean "nothing." That is a
limited premise, not one I subscribe to. I can always start with rapport
and gathering the info I need for the seduction. I expand her experience
with whom she can enjoy deep pleasure and good feeling.
MB: Sure you need all of the above. But why not incite her with what you
can do by showing value in yourself and your offering to her rather than
hoping she will attach it to you by your indirect implications. The real
danger here is she will think of someone else. I can just see it "Have you
ever felt passion...?" "Yes, I did with my last boyfriend, the sex was so hot"
and you are left in the dust.
RJ: "Have you ever" is just one of many ways and it's an outdated one at
that. We have plenty of ways to insure what we evoke is attached to
us. The ability and skill of evoking deep pleasure with my language, mind
and touch IS great value.
MB: No doubt and when you find women who are receptive to this you can add
great value. Remember that you are getting women who are attracted to you
but may not find you beautiful as discussed earlier.
RJ: No, they were not attracted to me based on what they first saw. They
didn't LOOK at me and feel those butterflies, those sparks, unlike what YOU
seem to describe...women hitting on you because you suddenly have a tan or
more lean muscle mass.
MB: You are also only getting women that are highly suggestible to your
techniques and in essence you are not really getting her essence but a body
with an altered state. I
am not saying SS does not work. I believe that the smallest grain of
attraction must exist in order for SS to enhance what is already there. At
the same time, being more direct with her "I feel a connection between us
Mary" "I feel like we could really grow together and feel comfortable with
one another and have great passionate times" "It would be great for us to
make love to each other all night long," etc. This way you are invoking
the process as well, making sure you area attaching it to yourself, putting
yourself in the picture as well as seeing if she feels the same way.
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GoneSavage:
Flying Dutchman's post on televised beach PU and follow-up interview got me
thinking. This seems like a great way for PUA's to collaborate, get
feedback, and perhaps create a PRODUCT.
PUA #1 approaches a girl or a set of girls and spits his game. Probably he
is being filmed from a distance. At least he is microphoned so we know
exactly what he is saying. Well, favorable or not, close or not, he has
results. These results can be evaluated by the other PUA collaborators.
"This is where I would have gone kino..." "What if you has said this
instead..." Get it?
But this is the fun part, the way I'm seeing things. The girl or group then
gets approached by a cameraman and an interviewer. Here we find out what
made PUA #1's approach favorable or not. "I just felt drawn to him..." "He
just wasn't tan..." all that. Great feedback for PUA #1. But
the interviewer, being a PUA himself, coupled with his social-authority
front, may decide to justify PUA #1 as a great catch, seduce the girl
himself, or at least lead the interview into highly sexual questions.
Well, I will go ahead and put the idea on the table because it's something
I've really been thinking about. If anyone wants to get together and hit
Panama City Beach, FL for Spring Break March 18-24, let's do it. It'd be
one thing to get some PUA's together on the beach, but another thing to
DOCUMENT the event, which is what I really want to do. Besides this
one, most of my ideas are pretty outrageous; it's like Girls Gone Wild
meets Jackass meets BangBus or something. We could get some of those kiss
openers on video. The edutainment possibilities are endless. Well, the
invitation is out. If you think you can make it or just want to shoot the
shit, drop me an email: jel***n@ug***.edu[ ? ]
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Dwacon (Dwacon Entertainment presents: Hillary Clinton's congressional
striptease
http://www.dwacon.com):
I have a friend who hosts big events in the area, and he invited me to his
latest party. I had VIP access to the club which worked quite well in my
favor.
I walked in and spotted three young women (20-somethings) and zeroed in on
the cutest one. Well, her friends got jealous and froze me out immediately,
so I quickly got her number and made plans to see her.
I went over to the bar where I saw a lovely young lady trying to get the
bartender's attention. I whispered to her, while doing some kino "the
bartender is gay. He must be, how could any man not want to gaze at a
beauty like you." Got her number like within 2 minutes.
Later, as the evening progressed, it became more and more icy and the HB I
worked on for about a half hour said, "You know, if I weren't already
married, you would have had a great chance with me." D-OHH !!! Forgot to
check the finger.
Speaking of which, I started getting the finger from the women I tried to
approach and figured I'd cut my losses and quit while I'm ahead. The liquid
nitrogen was flowing freely... to the point where one HB said, "We can't
talk to you, I'm waiting for my friend's husband to come out of the
bathroom" although her friend had no ring on and the bathroom was on the
exact opposite side of the building.
I got to get out of Washington DC... beating this snobbery is like swimming
up stream. Sure, you occasionally get to spawn... but the effort nearly
kills you.
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Tristan:
Go figure...
This one is for the books. I meet this woman at a concert, since we have a
mutual friend conversation flows easily. She's a singer, we talk about
music and so on. Within the first half hour of conversation, when I ask her
about what's really important to her she mentions her belief in Jesus. Now,
though many of you will figure that this indicated that chances for a close
would be slim, read on, you'll be surprised! I certainly was! You see, on
top of it , it wasn't just a passing comment to indicate what religion she
was. She spent the better part of the night talking about Jesus. At that
point we were sitting in a coffee shop right next to my place. (By the way,
I also ran into a gorgeous sexology student who waitresses there, she told
me that she just broke up with her boyfriend and asked me to give her a
call. It's been a good night needless to say...;-). I did her cube and we
fluffed about various things.
After that she starts with the questions. This is really unusual. I've
never met a woman SO direct. She asked me if I was bi sexual or homosexual
(many classical pianists are) and seemed very relieved when I said no. Of
course, this was a perfect time for me to ask her if SHE was bi. I was
stunned to find out that this very pious chick had had flings with women
when she was younger (she's 35) though she doesn't consider herself bi.
Then, get this! SHE tells me that she finds the music too loud in the place
and wants to go someplace more quiet. So I take her to my place.
We're sitting on the couch in my living room. She had told me that she
couldn't stay too long. So at one point I say, "Well I should call you a
cab now." She takes my hand and says "No, not yet, I want to stay a while
longer!" During the course of the conversation she made it clear that she
was not interested in any short term flings. She said that the next guy
would have to be the right one. I took the opportunity to tell her that I
was NOT the marrying type, that I was not interested in anything exclusive
and long term with only one woman at this point in my life. Of course she
said that that would probably change if I met the right one. (And she
pointed to herself as she said this, I have to add!)
I'm thinking " will I kiss her or not?" She also keeps telling me that she
is very happy to have met me. That she always hoped to meet a pianist some
day with whom she could give concerts. (At which point I made sure to tell
her that I was mostly doing solo and had no plans to change that. Never mix
business with pleasure.) So I'm thinking that even though she likes me
alot, because I'm intentionally telling her the things I know she won't be
crazy about, she'll figure out for herself that I might not be the one
she's looking for.
She asks me what I look for in a woman. I tell her about wanting a
passionate, highly sexual woman who knows what she wants and isn't afraid
to go for it. bla bla...
I figure that this is the best moment to be REALLY honest with her. So I
tell her that I want a woman who is bisexual and will not hesitate to share
our bed with another woman. She doesn't even flinch!
She then asks me if I mind a woman who is very religious. I tell her the
truth: that I don't so long as she respects my religious and spiritual
beliefs and doesn't try to convert me.
Then she tells me that all the qualities I have enumerated describe her
perfectly. At that point I realized that she had come to the conclusion
that I was Prince Charming and so I decided I had to make things REALLY
clear before making any move to close.
I then make my last conditions clear to her. I do something similar to
Riker's brilliant 3 rules but I emphasize something a little different. I
tell her (as I look into her eyes) that though I might be in a situation
where I want to passionately kiss a woman, I will only do so if I know she
is aware of who I am, and where I am at this point in my life, and that
because I respect her I would never lie and say that she is the only one I
care about only to have sex with her and never call her back. She is cool
with all of this and seems to get it.
So I kiss her. I had never really been with a deeply religious babe and had
wrongly assumed that she would be shy and reluctant. I am dead wrong. She
is WILD with passion.
Anyways, she stopped at the bra, but it was no big deal. She told me that
she wants to wait until the next time. My calibration tells me she's
sincere. In fact, she just called me from the subway to thank me for the
evening. She said that she didn't go all the way because she's always
believed that it's best not to skip the main course to get to the dessert.
When I told her she was a hell of a kisser she said "you ain't seen nothing
yet!"
So the lessons I want to point out in this sarge is that when woman tells
you she is deeply religious it doesn't necessarily mean that she won't have
sex before marriage and won't understand your desire to keep it casual.
Another point I want to make is that it is REALLY important to make it
absolutely clear BEFORE you make the closing move what she should expect.
Or else you are setting yourself up for a heart ache.
To tell you the truth, guys, I am getting some neediness vibes from her. I
have a feeling she thinks that she will be the one to "tame" me so to
speak. But because I was honest from the very start, I should be able to
keep things from getting out of hand. Nevertheless, I'm ready to bet she'll
be calling me probably more than I would want and possibly expecting more
than I want to give right now. So I'm going to have to tread carefully with
this one.
It's nice to have three babes in my special circle (another one of my
regulars is coming on Tuesday). Sure beats spending Saturday nights wanking
off to the Playboy channel...
Last funny thing about tonight...it's sort of weird to have a babe telling
me that Jesus loves me right at the same time she's sticking her tongue in
my mouth... maybe I SHOULD go to church more often...
Cliff's Comment: When "she stopped at the bra" she took back control and
this is not where you want to be. You'll be reading a lot more about this
shortly - keep your eyes on this list.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
GameMaster: Since 9/11...did you hear that the frequency of sex is up like
3X since then? We have psychology on OUR side for a change!
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
| cliff’s list advertisment section |
| Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are
just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links
to these emails. The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take
over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such
as proper mailing list software) for this list. If you were going to buy the product
anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going
at no extra cost to anyone. NON SEDUCTION-RELATED:
RECOMMENDED:
NOT REVIEWED YET:
|
| cliff’s free plugs section |
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all
recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back
here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up —
from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of
weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):
|
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