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"I even suggested that she get into the adult film business"

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I even suggested that she get into the adult film business
12/21/01 5:37:52 PM Eastern Standard Time

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Sean:
Any pro PUA's in the LA area interested in coaching a newbie once in a
while? I'm 24, pretty good looking, still new to this, I'm looking for a
cool wing to show me how to work the sunset strip and other areas. Email me
at bas***u@ea***.net[ ? ]

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GameMaster:
(Commenting on: "Ross (Commenting on: "GameMaster: I wanted to follow up on
the story about Miss Louisiana! I met her online last week and we spoke for
the first time on Wednesday. I got her number and called her up and use
this line "Hello Cindy......well, I have the face.....now, I have the
voice, and sometimes the voice....can be just as intriguing as the face. Hi
this is GM". They always say something like "Oh yeah"! We chatted for a
while, laughed our ass off about the whole online thing, and agreed to meet
for drinks on Saturday but before I let her go I installed my voice and
linked it to the place where she see's "things of beauty". Trust me, I need
all the help I can get!
RJ: Hold on a sec; clear something up. Hadn't she asked to see your pic
BEFORE you two talked on the phone? Was the first time she actually got a
peek at you when you met for drinks? Important detail, my man!"):

GameMaster: OK Ross, check out my logic trail on this.....she had already
seen my pic. The way I structured that sentence was intentionally vague,
whose face/voice....or does it presuppose that "I" have THE face and THE
voice? I've always found it to be an effective opener, especially when they
don't know who the hell is on the other end until you tell them later.
Comments are welcomed.

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Ross:
(Commenting on: "I do not, however, waver in my acceptance and application
to bring a woman into states of lust, fascination, or horniness by using my
verbal language - it's like changing their mood."):

Exactly right; a "mood", when you look at it, IS a trance, with a specific
feeling set of emotions and feelings to it, induced by atmosphere:
lighting, setting, set, music, view, etc.

(Commenting on: "(BTW a large factor of "natural attraction" is body
language» and personal  energy, both factors that I believe a self-aware
person should consciously guide.)":

Again, I agree.


(Commenting on: "From what I know, RJ seems to be more sly in his
seduction; the woman is feeling the states but hasn't consciously
recognized that he's putting the moves on her."):

No, with the more adventurous ones, I offer a demo on how she can feel
fantastic. If she isn't open, I move on. I'm more covert about the INTENT
of my questions and what they are designed to do; I don't tell her, "If you
answer this question, more likely that not you will go into a state of
lustful desire for me and tell me what buttons I need to push to get you to
jump me".
But the other more "hypno stuff" I almost NEVER do covertly. I TELL them it
is about creating awesome great feelings in their bodies; do they want to
try or not? I'm screening THEM for acceptance and also setting up a
self-image for them to live up to.
This is a VERY important point in setting the frame. I won't play with
someone who is not open and eager to exploring her good feelings, new good
feelings, new aspects and adventures in life.

(Commenting on: "He is more indirect and vague, where MB, I believe, puts
the path that he wants to take with the woman down right from the get go."):

I find it hard to accept that a woman will allow a guy to walk up and say,
"I think you are gorgeous and would like to explore getting to know you and
maybe having a passionate affair" ABSENT her first showing some signs of
non-verbal interest, like good eye contact, preening herself, etc.

(Commenting on: "I would side with Mark in the issue of being direct; I
have found more success with starting flirty, cocky and to the point."):

I can be and am all those things. I ENJOY BEING THAT WAY. I just don't
think it is enough. It hasn't proven, in the past, to be enough for me with
rare exceptions where she already liked my "Jewish looks", or so they have
told me.
If they LIKE your looks before you say a word, then the door is already
unlocked, and a bit ajar. If they DON'T get turned on by your looks, the
door is closed, and perhaps bolted or at least is a heavy door that
requires a bigger push.

(Commenting on: "Perhaps It requires more effort in initially attracting
some women, but I don’t keep ones that require sustained strain."):

Smart. I won't keep ones who keep trying to set the frame for ME to walk
into. They don't accept MY frame, I don't continue. If they DO accept my
frame, I'm happy to be more patient.

(Commenting on: "To my logic however, everything is “natural” in terms
where nothing can work outside of natural universal laws. Things happen and
then come the results. The word  natural is dependant on the vernacular,
but is based on our understanding of things."):

Well spoken and well said. When people prattle on about "natural" they are
really just meaning, "What feels effortless and second nature to ME...what
I am USED to doing".

(Commenting on: "When our understanding changes, the concept of what is
natural does, too."):

Well spoken.

(Commenting on: "If it feels natural to work a little sneaky hypnosis bit
to keep an HB10, then go ahead.  In reference to the magician and his cloak
- being a magician is not how I would prefer describe using SS tools. I see
many SS techniques as skills, talents and hobbies, if you will. Smooth talk
(or patterning) is a way to get a woman to feel a state, and lets just for
this example, feel lust."):

I think more than that, it's about FREEING her from her first, "natural"
(read: auto-pilot/knee jerk) responses/sets of responses and giving her a
chance to discover something better, more enjoyable and more fun for us
BOTH. It CAN be about enhancing her first responses if they are already
positive and good based on how she responds to your
looks/energy/confidence, etc.
THAT is real magick; not about cloaking who YOU are but about opening them
to have better responses than who they THOUGHT they had to be.

(Commenting on: "The ability in me to make a woman feel lust by the way I
talk to her is  something that I desire to be part of my personality."):

Right.

(Commenting on: "I personally don't anchor much. If I am lonely or have an
"in the moment"  desire, I will continue building a person's state using
whatever I can, to the point where I get what I want. I don't have a need
for them after that, so I structure the seduction accordingly. I, however,
in terms of longer relationships would like girls who are attracted to my
inner-self, so I  know that usually I don't need to produce “artificial”
attraction. (But that is only my desired opinion, because really, there is
no such thing as “artificial”, and I think many cannot accept that.)":

Right; at best, we can say there is what you are used to doing/responding
to and what SHE is used to doing/responding to. The real magick lays BEYOND
all that. Point, set, match. Labelling things as natural/artificial/the
real you/the false you is just a way to keep people stuck doing what they
are doing and being "who they are".  Not a good thing, in my book.
Now, I NEVER fake agreement with someone, always offer my own opinion, and
will never feign an interest in something I just don't like to try to
"squeeze in a match" that just isn't there. I don't believe I need to and
I'm not seeking a woman who relies on such things.
So I can always, in THAT respect, be "myself".

(Commenting on: "I only tried this once, but it worked. When the resistance
came, I stopped all play and said something like: "I understand. You'd like
to go on as much as I would, but there's a general principle that prevents
you." I didn't validate the principle by saying I respected it, but I did
act respectful of her decision to follow that principle. The key here was
not to argue or persuade, but simply to name it for what it was - a vague
principle, one that she didn't  conceive for herself. I'm guessing that she
thought about that principle and it looked pretty pale to her as she sat
there - cut off at her own request. After a short pause she said "HF,
you're so smart" and jumped me. By the way, this girl was a trip. She was a
Swede, here doing a stint in a  school for hotel and restaurant management.
With regard to foreplay, she once said: "Let's not waste time." (Okay, this
was a while ago and my technique may have left something to be desired.)
She could lube at will. She'd just close her eyes for a couple of seconds
and say she was ready. Wow!"):

Excellent. Powerful use of pacing her reality, showing you understand, but
keeping it vague. Well done!

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Mark B.:
Little sister update. She actually dumped her new boyfriend. When I asked
her why she said that "He talked about sex with his other women and would
always changed the number of women that he slept with in the past. So I
could never be sure. He also said how he liked to have sex with different
women and I felt like I would just another fuck toy to him. I did not feel
special to him. In fact I felt disgusted that he would just use me for his
own pleasure and felt like just another fuck for him." So he is done. My
sister is an HB, in fact she looks like Jenteal the porn star and I even
suggested that she get into the adult film business. But she seems very
reluctant to do as such. But being as hot as she is she has all the trouble
with men fulfilling her needs. So I talked to her for about 2 hours about
her unfulfilled needs and here is what she said.
- I need a guy who will take charge and make the decisions, not tell me what
to do but be more assertive in terms of what he wants so that the pressure
is off me
- I need a guy who tells me what he wants rather than waits for me to figure
it out
- I need a guy who will focus just on me and not other women, I need to feel
special that way that I am the only one
- I need a guy that I can talk to and who will give me some direction and
advice as to what to do and where to go
- I need someone who will understand me and really listen to what I have to
say
- I need someone who likes to have sex and who can last and do oral as well
as every style
- My biggest complaint about men is they do not take enough leadership but
wait for me to do things
- I want a guy who can stand up to the world and follow his own lead rather
than be a door mat for others
So really it seems it does not take much.

Cliff's Comment:  Mark, I can not for the life of me understand how you can
propose to your sister to be a porn star.  I may be showing my old
fashioned values here, but this one just doesn't compute.

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NightLight9:
This is a mail on the process of creating an addiction to yourself in a
woman. This is about keeping a woman, not getting one. I've been thinking
about this lately and here are my thoughts:
For the women I date I am like a drug. As a drug, I am probably most like
heroin; where as, I think most guys are more like cigarettes or, even worse,
the nicotine patch.
Here's what I mean. You take the average guy and when he's got a woman he
just goes about his business and does the minimum for a woman to stay with
him. He doesn't do anything special unless he's "in trouble" for something
or done something wrong (so he goes and buys flowers or acts extra nice).
She sticks with this guy because she has a mild addiction, but in most cases
she isn't really that addicted to him. She could quit if she wanted to, but
she likes him enough that puts up with the "smokey hair and yellow teeth"
because she's afraid to try something different unless that something is
really compelling.
I on the other hand do nice special things when she's already happy (and
not when they are mad - I don't reward them for drama). In NLP speak, I get
her to a 9 on the 1-10 scale of making her feel special and happy, then I do
something that moves it to a 12. I'm an unbelievable high. Then I don't
see her for a while and I pick up other women or I don't call her for a
week... That is the low. This just makes the high that much more
desirable. They say heroin addicts spend the rest of their lives trying to
match their first high. The women spend their time trying to make sure I
will give them another high.
Of course, there is more to a drug addiction than just the high, there are
specific physical and mental parts of the addiction, but you can make the
same statement on a relationship. I think it's a more powerful addiction to
give incredible highs and the juxtaposed accompanying lows than to be a
constant slight buzz.

(Commenting on: "five683 comments: Now you guys are confusing me. This goes
against
everything I've been reading in these so-called on-line "men's" magazines.
Especially people
like "Doc Love" who says the way to get/keep a woman is to "always be a
challenge." So what's a self-respecting lesbian supposed to do when she
thought she found this wealth of information into a woman's psyche and now
I'm getting conflicting information??
Cliff's Comment: I think that Mark's comment doesn't fully take into
account that the guy was persistent in a charming manner, and not in an
annoying, stalking kind of way. I think it is clear that different things
will work on different women in different situations, but I do agree that
being persistent can yield benefits if done properly."):

NightLight9 replies: Yes and this takes patience as well. This guy probably
wasn't doing this with 10 girls at once. He found one and persisted. I've
heard girls say stuff like "I finally went out with him just so he'd go
away" (that's a good plan). Or "he just kept asking and I felt bad". There
are plenty of people out there who have a really hard time saying no. It
just makes them feel bad. If you persist in the right way (not too pathetic,
where they just dismiss you and not too brazenly, where they can blow you off
as an asshole) they will say 'yes' eventually. Some people will never turn
though.

(Commenting on "chrisonic:  I like that opener. I live in Brazil (my
English sucks) and there are a
lot of clubs here where the guys go and try to pick up some girls."):

NightLight9 replies: I'm fairly confident that PU in Brazil would be
substantially different in terms of what kino means, etc., but basic
principles
still hold true, just at varying degrees.

(Chirsonic: I notice that there are 3 types of guys here in the clubs:
1) Guys who approach girls and spend a lot of time (40 to 60 minutes) trying
to kiss close. They normally introduce themselves saying something like:
What should I do to get a princess like you? or You are the best looking
girl in this club, etc. And then talk about where she lives, what she does,
where she works, blah, blah, blah. Totally AFC.)

NightLight9 replies: So do these guys ever close? There are some places and
people who can make this work.

(Chirsonic: 2) Guys who approach and spend about 10 to 20 minutes. These
guys are funny and can entertain girls, and some have a good pick up rate.
I think I am
one of those."):

NightLight9 replies: That's generally what I do. If it goes really well
and/or I don't see a lot of better targets, I'll stay longer.

(Chirsonic: 3) Guys who go totally kino. They just approach the girl,
invade her personal
space, say one or 2 things and in less than 4 minutes start hugging and
trying to kiss close. Their pick up rate is good (like 60%) I tried to
notice what do they say, but it doesn't seem to be anything clever or
funny... I think the key here is the kino, like in the NightLight9's "Have
you seen Thomas opener"):

NightLight9 replies: I do this too, sometimes. It's a different game. It
requires a different mood and attitude.

(Chirsonic: So I have the following questions to NL9:
1) What is the pickup rate you've got using the Thomas opener?"):
NightLight9 replies: I've only used it on a few occasions (pretty much when I
was hanging out with Thomas). Probably 10 girls. It got a positive
response about 6-7 times. Kiss probably 3 times. These numbers aren't
foolproof.

(Chirsonic: 2) What kind of girls have you kiss closed? Were they 8.5 and
up? How old were they?"):

NightLight9 replies: Ages and attractive levels ranged. I don't think that
has much to do with it. I think it has more to do with them being in a
happy funny mood and me being happy, funny and sexy. I had one really hot
9+ girl totally wanting to help me (definitely about 3 seconds from a kiss)
but a guy friend came over, grabbed her and said "If you want a ride, you
come right now."  He was pretty pissed as it was obvious I had gone from
stranger to possible partner in about .2 seconds :-)

(Chirsonic: 3) When you failed to kiss close, what did you do?"):

NightLight9 replies: Talked for a second and moved on to another girl, or
just moved on. There's nothing to do, this opener is not aggressive and the
interaction is 90 percent non-verbal which means neither of you can really
say anything because verbally nothing is happening. TO MAKE IT CLEAR, THESE
TYPE OF KISS OPENERS ARE NOT DANGEROUS BECAUSE THEY ONLY HAPPEN IF SHE LETS
YOU GET CLOSE ENOUGH TO KISS HER AND IF SHE DOES LET YOU GET THAT CLOSE AND
FOR SOME REASON BACKS OFF IT'S NOT SOMETHING SHE WOULD BE MAD ABOUT UNLESS
YOU PUSH HER FURTHER. If she is actually surprised by the time you go kiss,
you did something wrong. Every move is gentle, relaxed and laid back. She's
like the frog in the kettle.

(Chirsonic: 4) Does it works when you approach a girl who is with her
friends? And what do you other guys think about this kind of approach?"):

Yes it works when she has friends there, but the skill is in reading her
receptiveness. If you saw me do this, you would see that she is as much a
part of it as you are. You would also see that the friends don't mind
although they will eventually cock block you because they want to go home,
etc. (This bypasses normal group tactics and therefore lacks the disarming
properties).

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Mystery:
(Commenting on Ross's comment on: "(Commenting on: "Consider training
yourself using GROUP THEORY. If you approach a 3set, approaching THE ONE
(formerly target) immediately will alienate the PEER GROUP (formerly
obstacles) every time. So you approach the GROUP and focus on BEFRIENDING
(formerly disarming) THE ONE's FRIENDS (formerly Ug's). When you NEG THE
ONE, you get the respect of her peers while lowering her self-confidence.
 From THAT position, you can get permission to 1:1 her and you are free to
work your magic."):
I think this makes perfect sense. Let's go apply it outside of a club
context for even more fun."):

When I say clubs, I also include bars, restaurants and other public
gathering places. Public gatherings are my forte, not just clubs
specifically. If a guy wants to get girls, he must go where the girls
condensate.

(Commenting on: "Commenting on: "You are learning that approaching girls
1:1 is (respectfully) cowardly."):
That's a weird label. You mean, it takes NO balls to approach and HB 9+
just walking down the street?"):

I'm saying it CONVEYS cowardness - a hottie all alone gets some guy
approaching ... it's not a situation that is as rewarding as a hottie in a
3set (remember MOST hotties are found in 3sets - of course, that fact only
comes from my 10 years of field experience). Why? Because you will get the
benefit of social proof if you pawn her peer group, and I'm sure you'll
agree that the mind set of a 10 pretty much REQUIRES that her peers give
her the go ahead. They are very "aware" of what their friends think.

(Commenting on: "Let's say approaching an HB 9+ in a group in a bar might
not work so well."):

Huh? Given a choice of meeting a girl alone on the street or in a cafe is
NOT as good as meeting a girl in a 3set in a street or cafe. Each venue
gives a REASON for a hottie to be there. The street? Travel (hotties never
just 'hang').  The restaurant? Food and conversation with friends. The
cafe? Drinks and a chat with friends.  The bar? To drink and laugh with
friends and hopefully new people. The club? To drink and dance with friends
and meet people. Which gives a higher quantity of hotties?  Which gives you
the most opportunities to practice in a given period of time? Which have
the highest quantity of 3sets in which to work in and use social proof to
win THE ONE? The answer is CROWDED PLACES.  It's almost as if ... I'm
hearing EXCUSES from you. You aren't GOOD in clubs so you list all these
'reasons' why they suck. Only I'm living proof that people can clean up if
they practice GROUP THEORY. I'm here to tell you and everyone in earshot
that maneuvering within a GROUP yields far better results on a HOTTIE than
in a 1:1 situ. AND ... you'll find MORE group sets to practice on in a
CROWDED place than in a sparce venue like the street or cafe. BUT just
because you have better chances getting the job done right, that doesn't
mean you can't pull a girl sitting by herself. Getting the girl is IMO the
exception to the rule.  What do I mean by this?  Well, for instance, MOST
guys don't pickup a girl in a supermarket ... but it DOES happen. Our job
is to be the exception to the rule.  Also, most guys don't get the girl in
a cafe.  But if you are the exception to the rule, you will get her.  And I
believe the same holds for clubs and other crowded public gatherings. Sure,
a lot of guys and girls go INTO the club, but few come out at the end of
the night having hooked up.  MOST go OUT ... ALONE.  We must be the
exception to the rule.
"Men of Mystery are the EXCEPTION." ~ Mystery

(Commenting on: "Prophet: I'm back in Canada (Guelph) for a month before I
take my HB back to Germany with me. I have been having some trouble sarging
because we are together a lot. While we are here, we are spending time at
our respective parents' houses. That gives me some time to get out alone
and after having taken the trouble to learn these beautiful patterns, I
don't want to stop using them. Are there any brothers in Guelph, Ontario
(or Toronto if necessary) who I could wing with while I'm here?"):

Hey man, my very next workshop will be in Toronto.  Check out
www.mysterymethod.com. The workshop would help you out tremendously.  Just
watching me work a room for a while would give you the "ah-HA!" feeling. I
could set the date for January before you go (I was planning that anyways).
On a private note, I STILL make mistakes. Here's something to consider. I
like licking a girl's ass. I mean, after a shower and as part of the eating
out thing.  It started as a "oooh that's so taboo" and turned into
curiosity and then became NORMAL.  After all, simply eating a girl out was
"oooh, that's so taboo" before it became normal everyday. Here's the thing
... while reeming a chick seems normal to ME because I'm used to doing it,
you can scare a girl off if the first sex you have includes these "oooh,
that's so taboo" things.  Lick the asshole of a girl who's never done that
on the first night and you may not have a second night.  Why is that? Comments?

Cliff's Comment:  It's been my experience that do it to them (ANYTIME) and
they love it, but doing it back to you is not something that will happen
immediately with many (there are, God love 'em, exceptions, however).

(Mystery Commenting on: "I know Mystery and others have suggested cutting
off all the physical play and offering to play checkers, or the like. I'd
call this icing her."):

Not ICING HER per se.  More like PUNISHMENT AND REWARD. It's all part and
parcel of the PLEASURE/PAIN PRINCIPLE. The PPP works GREAT!

(Commenting on: "And then there's the "I really shouldn't be..." approach,
where you just keep on going while saying that."):

Yes, the "we should stop" and keep going move ROCKS! It works great. And we
also have Riker's 3 Rules. So that's THREE ways to slide into home.

(Commenting on: "I divide these last minute resistance situations into two
categories. In the first category are situations where you know it's going
to be a lot of work to close the deal if you can't close right then and
there, or it's then or never, or she's just not worth the trouble. In the
second are situations where you know it's in the bag the next time you get
together and you think she's worth waiting for (Tristan's)."):

I suppose that's a fourth.

(Commenting on: "In this second category I don't want to blow a bird in the
hand by trying too hard to put my hand in the bush. I don't want to ice her."):

It's not as cold as you think. It really works.

(Commenting on: "On the other hand, I've never been successful in
overcoming all resistance with the "I really shouldn't be" approach. The
best I've been able to do with that approach is a little more progress."):

Yeah, you use this one FIRST and see how far you get. THEN you switch to
the PPP and punish her with your apathy. Throw in a matter of fact 3 rules
thing and you should be good to go. AND ... if you aren't, then since you
are playing chess, you can always wait it out til the next meet. ALL are
useful in the same night.

(Commenting on: "Here's a twist that is kind of like icing her, but not
harsh. I only tried this once, but it worked. When the resistance came, I
stopped all play and said something like: "I understand. You'd like to go
on as much as I would, but there's a general principle that prevents you."
I didn't validate the principle by saying I respected it, but I did act
respectful of her decision to follow that principle. The key here was not
to argue or persuade, but simply to name it for what it was - a vague
principle, one that she didn't conceive for herself. I'm guessing that she
thought about that principle and it looked pretty pale to her as she sat
there - cut off at her own request."):

Aaah, the power of PPP.  She says NO so you say OK and while for her it
means, "no fucking but necking still feels good", to you it means, "Wanna
see me spit a watermelon seed into the dog's ear?"

(Commenting on: "After a short pause she said "HF, you're so smart" and
jumped me."):

Dude, that was PPP.  You didn't have to go one to any of the other
techniques. Good job, ol' boy.

(Commenting on: "By the way, this girl was a trip. She was a Swede, here
doing a stint in a school for hotel and restaurant management. With regard
to foreplay, she once said: "Let's not waste time." (Okay, this was a while
ago and my technique may have left something to be desired.) She could lube
at will. She'd just close her eyes for a couple of seconds and say she was
ready. Wow!"):

What's she need YOU for then? haa.

(Commenting on: "chrisonic: (Commenting on: "I call this my "Have you seen
Thomas opener"): I like that opener. I live in Brazil (my English sucks)
and there are a lot of clubs here where the guys go and try to pick up some
girls. I notice that there are 3 types of guys here in the clubs:
1) Guys who approach girls and spend a lot of time (40 to 60 minutes)
trying to kiss close. They normally introduce themselves saying something
like:  What should I do to get a princess like you? or You are the best
looking girl in this club, etc. And then talk about where she lives, what
she does, where she works, blah, blah, blah. Totally AFC."):

Yeah.  They don't come in strong.  They don't see IOI's and stick around as
NICE GUYS mildly entertaining the girls with their presence.  They stay
there too long and waste their precious time. Then they leave 1 hour older
and that much hornier.

(Commenting on: "2) Guys who approach and spend about 10 to 20 minutes.
These guys are funny and can entertain girls, and some have a good pick up
rate. I think I am one of those."):

This is the best place to be.  Go in strong, make all the friends think you
be cool and have THE ONE choose YOU because all her friends think you be cool.

(Commenting on: "3) Guys who go totally kino. They just approach the girl,
invade her personal space, say one or 2 things and in less than 4 minutes
start hugging and trying to kiss close. Their pick up rate is good (like
60%)"):
No way, dude.  Coming in strong is good but not straight to THE ONE.  No
way.  Alienate the friends and they pull her away to "dance". Unless you
are talking about guys who pull the one from the peer group and sit her one
to one.  See, the guy already PROVED himself and with the negs created the
challenge.  It's HER turn to WIN HIM on the couch with her "little girl" act.

(Commenting on: "I tried to notice what do they say, but it doesn't seem to
be anything clever or funny... I think the key here is the kino, like in
the NightLight9's "Have you seen Thomas opener""):

The idea of asking a girl if they saw one of your friends is OLD.  Not just
old I mean. I mean, it's NORMAL.  It happens a lot.  It's not SPECIAL.  If
it works, yeah, but ... it's just not something I'd put into my repertoire.

(Commenting on: "And what do you other guys think about this kind of
approach?"):

I don't like it.  It's ... bland.  The convo thread you initiate doesn't
easily continue into an interesting topic. Remember, there are only TWO
convo threads that women respond well to: RELATIONSHIP TALK (SEX) and TALK
ABOUT THE UNKNOWN (MAGIC). Hence ... SEX MAGIC. Sex talk doesn't mean
actual "wanna fuck?" talk but rather the "my best friend was having sex
with his girlfriend when ...". and Magic talk doesn't mean, "pick a card,
any card" but rather "Do you think spells work?" or "Do you think you
possess ESP?"  A good opener so you can fall into these convo threads would
be good.  The whole point of the opener is to start in on a group and
convey that you approached for the CHAT and nothing more. "Looks like the
party's over here. : )  I'm curious, have you seen the movie Poltergeist?
Do you think it was based on reality or all fiction?"  You've come to
entertain yourself.  Not to pickup the girl.  Of course, the "you look like
... shopping experts" is sorta like "You know Thomas?" but it's better.  It
leads into open ended questions. I mean, once she says, "Thomas? Uh, no."
Where do you really go from there?  Anything you say from there will reveal
that you are into them because why else would you be there?  You can't
negate that with a neg right there and then.  If you are looking for
Thomas, and the girl was unable to help, you would leave and continue to
look for Thomas, right?  You wouldn't shift the chat to anything else that
keeps you from finding Thomas, right?  Like, "So, come here often?"
ANYTHING after the Thomas opener and you've conveyed interest by STAYING
there.  Nope, don't like it.  Of course, it's better than shit in the
pants, right?  This opener reminds me of, "Excuse me, do you have the
time?" After that, where do you go?  It's like you need to have another
opener right after that. So then why have the WHAT TIME IS IT opener in the
first place?  WHAT TIME IS IT is not an opener.  It's a Pick Up line.  And,
therefore ... so is THOMAS.  Boy, can I rant.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.

NON SEDUCTION-RELATED:

RECOMMENDED:

One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from alt.seduction.fast, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.

NOT REVIEWED YET:

Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):

 

[all words] [any words]

INFORMATION ABOUT THIS NEWSLETTER ARCHIVE:
This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting http://www.seduction.com/.  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at http://www.fastseduction.com/cliff/.

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

DISCLAIMERS:
This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the fastseduction.com webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of fastseduction.com.  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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