Formhandle Explains AI (Approach Invitation)
From ASF:
| Subject: Re: afc first field report, need advice please Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:12:46 -0400 From: Formhandle <[email protected]> Organization: http://www.fastseduction.com/ Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast This post describes a new theory of mine I call “approach invitation“ which I’ll get into in another thread. Anyway, to address your question after you finally got the nerve to approach/close: geeber79 wrote: > …what should i do next? Should I e-mail her? Yeah, what else would you expect to do with her e-mail address? 🙂 > What should i say in the e-mail? Say hello. Bring up (BRIEFLY) a topic of the short convo you had with her (re-establish rapport), suggest you get together (perhaps utilize some SS in building up the suggestion). Offer a choice of 2 different times (be specific – don’t be vague). Spellcheck. Send. > Should i ask her out in the e-mail? Don’t “ask” her anything. Suggest you get together and offer her an option of 2 different places/days/times. Create an opportunity for her. If she likes you, she will either accept one of the times or respond with a counter-offer of a place/day/time. If she doesn’t like you she will either not respond or reply back with soem BS like “I’m really busy…so much schoolwork…blah..blah” or “My gradmother’s cat died…blah..blah.” > Should I let her e-mail me? Chicks are passive. They don’t consciously or blatantly initiate anything unless there’s already an established relationship. That’s just the way it is. > Am i rejected since she didn’t get me her number? Not necessarily. If she gave you a hotmail or yahoo address instead of her school address, then it might be a rejection because you took too damn long to build up the nerve to approach her. Otherwise, what does it hurt to e-mail her? > What do you think of my opener? Fine. But you should have opened with her within the first couple minutes of being in her presence. > What did i do right? You approached. You showed friendliness. You closed. > What did i do wrong? You took too long to approach. You didn’t seduce, you just fluffed and @closed. You accepeted an @close instead of #close. You didn’t ask her where she was off to (which might have offered you an opportunity to get some juice/coffee with her). > The way i see it, is that atleast I did something, that i > actually went up to a girl and talked to her. I’m already > thinking of going up to other girls now, and not waiting for > this one. Good plan. > It would be nice if something were to happen between me and > this girl, but I don’t really care if something does. Good attitude. — jay <[email protected]> Fast Seduction 101 – http://www.fastseduction.com/ Class is now in session… |
| Subject: Re: Time
to get your asses kicked Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 11:42:30 -0400 From: Formhandle <[email protected]> Organization: http://www.fastseduction.com/ Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast …. A good opener is still important IF YOU CAN CAME UP WITH ONE on-the-fly. Or, if you get a solid Approach Invitation (AI, more on this later). But if you can’t or don’t, it’s still important to open with something, anything, if you like the look of the chick and desire to close her. …. — |
| Subject: Field
report: Montreal bookstore PU Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 03:14:38 -0400 From: Formhandle <[email protected]> Organization: http://www.fastseduction.com/ Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast …. Normally, I wait for an unconscious Approach Invitation from a chick like that before approaching (i.e. she drops a book in front of me, starts primping, gives EC, smiles, whatever, in order to create a good opener). …. — |
| Subject: Re:
Stalked by a Babe!!!! Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:26:42 -0400 From: Formhandle <[email protected]> Organization: http://www.fastseduction.com/ Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast Hungry Duck wrote: > … > Afterwards though I realised she wanted to speak and take things > further. > > Asked a HB I know about this and she said “I DO IT ALL THE TIME!!!!” – > so chicks stalk guys as well (lol) > … Yeah, I call this the “Approach Invitation” (AI), it’s not really “stalking”. I mentioned a while back that I would post about it. I guess I forgot to. Here it is. First, to differentiate, there is a big difference between AI and peacocking. One is for attracting the attention of a specific guy, the other is to attract the attention of as many guys as possible. When out doing PU with wings one day, I realized something that just makes total sense and field-tested it many times since then. I remembered something I heard once that chicks sometimes think they’ve been “approaching” guys all day long and by the end of the day feel totally rejected because none of those guys responded. The stupidity of the situation (chick logic) is that what she thought was an approach, was so far under the radar of what guys consider a “signal” or “sign” that none of them have the nerve to approach (unless she’s an HB and runs into a PUA in which case she’ll get approached, making that PUA even more unique, and reaffirming the skills we’re all trying to learn). Chicks will do that kind of “approaching” consciously when actively looking for a man, but a lot of the time they’ll do the same exact things UNCONSCIOUSLY when finding a man is a real desire but not at the forefront of their mind. OK, let me explain. Say all of a sudden men & women reversed roles and men still had the same horniness but for some fucked up reason aren’t allowed to utter a word or be blatant or direct about how they meet & attract women. Say you’re a PUA and someone told you that you had to go PU chicks (consciously or unconsciously) without initiating the conversations, without initiating kino, without the ability to *communicate* on those levels unless a chick strikes up a convo with you first. Also, you’re not allowed to go to bars or clubs to do PU because there will be conflicts between AI and peacocking (confused signals – very inefficient). What would you do? Shit, you’re horny as hell, you’ve got to do something! Well, first you would pick public places to go that are bound to have lots of people which are constantly recycling, a place where topics for conversation are plentiful, and places where interesting and available chicks might go. Then, you would do subtle things around them which would attempt to get their attention, just enough to get an initial comment or reaction – your open door. Now you know what it’s like when chicks are on the “hunt” (again, consciously or unconsciously). This is how chicks do their PU. It’s a lot like how AFCs try to do PU. They don’t (LOL) although they think they’re doing all they can (which they aren’t). Now that’s explained, roles are now back to what you know them to be… You’re in a bookstore and an HB walks up and stands near you and at that moment starts making a fuss to dig through her huge sack called a “purse” to dig out a scarf and keeps making a lot of commotion to put the scarf on, fix her hair, whatever. That’s an AI. The beauty of an AI is that it *creates* your opener FOR you – you no longer have to worry about WHAT to say to open with a chick. In that situation, all you’ve got to say is: “Interesting scarf” or “That’s a huge bag” or “Hi”. You are 10x more likely to get a positive response from an AI situation than a cold approach using either a canned opener or coming up with something interesting while initiating conversation. It could be ANY number of things to get your attention that in most circumstances are out of the norm of the normal pace of life. She decides to tie her sneakers in front of you. She gives you EC and smiles. She asks people around her stupid questions. She says something really dorky out loud to her friend, easily overheard by you. She seems to stall in the areas you’re standing. She starts tapping her fingers on a surface near you. She drops something near you, pretends to be interested in something near you, … YOU GET THE POINT!! Here’s where it gets better (related somewhat to Mystery’s AWARE state). When you go out to do PU, start off with a couple “warm up” PUs where the outcome is totally meaningless to you. Yeah, the first couple of the day tend to be tougher because you’re “cold” and need to “warm up”. After those 2 are done, you will be in a different mental state, a state where adrenaline is now circulating your system, you are more aware of your surroundings, and you can pick out details and notice things you didn’t notice before. All of a sudden you start to SEE all these AIs constantly flowing around you. Just pay attention. Then open on the next AI you see from an HB that interests you. More adrenaline. More awareness. Better PUs. Better responses. It snowballs. Once you get on a roll for the day, you’ll find yourself not only approaching tons more women than you would have before, but most of them give you good responses, and most of the time your openers are DECIDED FOR YOU! Now, here’s why I kept mentioning that a lot of the time chicks do this unconsciously: If they unconsciously give you an AI, they are unconsciously interested in you in some way but have not yet consciously noticed you (which is still good!). When you open with their AI, and a conversation “just happens”, they will start seeing it like it was “magic” or “meant to be”. That comes from all the trashy romance novels they read. You have to differentiate quickly between a conscious AI and an unconscious one so that you can understand the perspective of the chick who’s giving it (actively being horny/excitable, unconsciously being romance-oriented). So, knowing this very small detail about chicks, and knowing all it takes is just a couple initial “warm up” approaches at the beginning of a PU session, you have the key to being able to approach dozens of HBs per day with greater ease than approaching just a few without this knowledge. It almost gets to the point where you forget what you are doing consciously and can’t remember (post-PU) how you even opened with her, you will just remember saying SOMETHING which sparked a conversation and eventually lead to a #/@ close. I believe that “naturals” are constantly in this state which is why most of them can’t teach other guys how to do it. They KNOW how to do it but can’t EXPLAIN it. Of course, none of this info really helps you with other skills (carrying a convo, kino, pacing, leading, closing) but it DOES help you approach a ton more HBs and not miss opportunities that surround you all day long. Approaching a ton more HBs will help you build those other skills faster. As my PUA friend Danny used to always say: “Repetition builds speed and accuracy.” — jay <[email protected]> Fast Seduction 101 – http://www.fastseduction.com/ Class is now in session… |
| Subject: Re:
Introduction of a spy Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 19:26:48 -0400 From: Formhandle <[email protected]> Organization: http://www.fastseduction.com/ Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast Rue wrote: > Greetings. I am a bi chick spying on your newsgroup. It seems to me > that these methods you speak of might work with girl-girl encounters. > It seems worth a try in any case. I will report. That would be interesting, yes. > A note from the hetro side of my life. So many times I have been > hanging out with a guy and thinking to myself “How much more obvious > do I have to make it I want to get in your pants. Make a move, damn > you”. And they don’t. That’s understandable, given thet most guys, even when they see a “signal”, scare themselves away from making a more commited move. > One doesn’t want to look to sluttish because > that turns some people off. We understand this about what goes on in a chick’s mind as to why you would not make the most forward move yourself (passiveness, ASD, etc.). However, what I am particularly interested in is the gap of what men consider an advancing move and what women consider an advancing move. Meaning, can you give a few (clear) examples of how you felt you were being direct and the guys didn’t seemed to pick up on this? Also, when you got to points like that, what went through your mind to try to be more direct/blunt but you ended up holding back? or how about the times you didn’t hold back and what got you to make that move? Did it end up working or did the guys still remain clueless and/or scared? > I think guys miss thousands of > opportunities to get laid just by not being aware of when a woman > wants them. Have you read any of my posts on AI (Approach Invitation)? This is very related. It seems like the gap is bridged when a woman becomes just a slight bit more noticable in her intent (rather than being completely passive when the guy initiates out of the blue) and the man is at least just a slight bit more aware of an AI. I’ve been recently studying a means to propel a chick to provide an AI, watch for the AI, then follow through after that initiation to move forward with the PU. > I have to like somone a whole lot before I’ll go out and > say I want to sleep with them, but if they make the first move, > much better chance for them. WHat about with a chick? In that case, you are forced to deal with the same passivity that guys deal with. In that case, you must be the more direct one, right? > Off to steal all your women. If you’re bi, we can share 😉 — jay <[email protected]> Fast Seduction 101 – http://www.fastseduction.com/ Class is now in session… |
From mASF:
| Date Posted:
2001/12/29 04:49:00 AM EST Author: formhandle <unknown email address> Subject: AFC vs PUA communication example nycrafc wrote: > …[snip story of tripping chick]… nyrafc, search through my archives or Google on my pasts posts regarding “AI“. The tripping was classic AI and your follow-up to it was very “it just happened” magical which tens to work after such an invitation to approach. You capitalized on something like this accidentally – you can observe stuff like this happening all around you, you just need to know what to be aware of. >Me: “In fact, I’m putting it >on the Internet as soon as I >get home!” >Her, laughs, stage >whisper:”Don’t use my real >name!” > >Part 3: >Me: …I chuckle, freeze, >slow my pace, think about how >I have no idea what to say, >how I’m never going to fuck a >chick this hot, etc., etc. Damnit, she was practically telling you what to say next: You: So what *IS* your real name? HAHA that would have been perfect. Shake her hand, kino, laugh about it, pace the situation, ask her to join you for a coffee, BAM, you’re in like Flynn. — jay <[email protected]> Fast Seduction 101 – http://www.fastseduction.com/ Class is now in session… |
| Date Posted:
2002/01/18 06:36:00 PM EST Author: formhandle <unknown email address> Subject: Ultra-Bitches, but why??? Nilatak wrote: >…I havev’t >read anything on AI theory, >but plan to do so before I go >out tonight. AI (Approach Invitation) info is not in the guide yet, but do a search for a few posts by me sometime after May of ’01. It’s a combination of observation which is enhanced by warm-up and leading that observation into simplified PU. If you understand AI right, the number of potential approaches you can make will increase 10x on any given day (assuming you actually go to places with lots of HBs and lots of turnover – like downtown in a busy city or in a big mall). Beyond AI, I’ve also been working on something I’ve been calling pAImAI among my wings. Pre-AI male AI. It’s sort of a method of culling AIs from chicks, essentially creating a situation for them where they MUST initiate an AI for you if they are interested even in the smallest way. Imagine walking into a large bookstore chock full of targets and picking out a specific chick (the one you WANT) and doing stuff that will basically cause an AI to get initiated by her, which basically creates the easiest and best opener for her, handed to you on a silver platter. And it’s all under-the-radar to her. You get your opener. She thinks it’s unique. Your meeting becomes “chance”-centric and it becomes a lot easier to manage the PU. More on pAImAI soon… >I never thought >that, “Hey, is this club so >and so?” Is their way hitting >on us (me and my wing are >average looking). It’s not really “hitting on you”. It’s the equivalent of an invitation for you “hit on” them. Ignoring, turning down, or even not noticing and an AI from a chick is the equivalent of a chick putting up a bitch shield when you approach her. But don’t think of it as “hitting on”, think of it as an opportunity for you to INITIATE with the chick. It is almost animalistic if you remove the language aspect. Dogs sniffing each other’s butts basically. >But I have >read lamer come on from girls, >so I guess it wasn’t that far >off. Any time a chick singles YOU out for something, frame it as an opportunity to initiate with her. Yeah, she may not be interested after all because humans have to interact with each other but those chicks chose YOU TWO for some reason over everyone else in the line. Why? Who cares. Frame it as an invitation to PU. Because if it really is an invitation, simply by initiating, you’re IN because you’ve essentially already been chosen and you’re simply following through. Make sense? >I read ASF and the >playerguide so I am farmiliar >with what to do, my wing >doesn’t agree with some of the >things, so he does his own >thing. Too bad for him. >I just wasn’t >expecting it and when it >escalated it was too late to >do damage control. Thanx for >the advice. Skip damage control. Never do damage control unless you’re dealing with a chick 1-on-1 and she’s really worth it. It’s better to shift effort to other chicks. — jay [[email protected]] Fast Seduction 101 – http://www.fastseduction.com/ Class is now in session… |
| Date Posted:
2002/02/24 11:39:00 PM EST Author: formhandle <unknown email address> Subject: confusion stjerneheimen wrote: >Well, this HB, she had been >throwing me some AIs for a few >weeks (very kino shit too, >sitting on lap, head on >shoulder shit) and i >eventually got a #close >(straightforward-style), so i >called her up and got a DAI (I >think) response (“maybe some >other time” BS), thee usual. >Should I pursue and E&E and >save face at all or just drop >her totally in humiliation >style? You’re throwing too many acronyms around as if they are more meaningful than your actual understanding of the game. An AI (Approach Invitation) is something that happens before you first meet a chick. It’s not something that keeps happening after you’re already interacting with her. If you don’t take advantage of the first or second AI when a chick is in your presence for the first time, you’re basically “stalling” in her eyes. It’s like a rejection. Then calling her up after all that time and getting a “maybe some other time” response means: You wasted all that time with her and didn’t do anything to portray any value to her. An AI is like a chick saying unconsciously “I’m interested in you, show me some value.” If you don’t do anything with it, you’re basically rejecting her. If she keeps giving you signs of interest but you don’t reciprocate, you are rejecting her. And if you’re simultaneously not portraying any value to her (the kind you would know how to give after eliciting the things sand feelings he values the most) then all you’re doing is being an uninteresting tease. So, finally, you get her number and call her up and she’s probably thinking “I’ve been giving him these signals right in front of him for weeks and he hasn’t done shit until he gets my number and calls me and tries to set up a ‘date’. He’s either stupid, a pussy, or a tease. I want a man. Sorry, not interested. Maybe next time.” Now you’re thinking there’s a tactic to turn this situation around by ejecting with an explanation? Ejecting for what? You’ve already been tested and failed this one. Now go onto the next chick and try again, this time paying attention to actually DOING something to get her truly attracted to you rather than just associating things that happen to you after-the-fact with acronyms you picked up from this site. I don’t think you’re really grasping the reality of your situation. You can’t retroactively apply PU/seduction techniques to situations where you acted like an AFC and hope to gain something from it. — jay [[email protected]] Fast Seduction 101 – http://www.fastseduction.com/ Class is now in session… |
| Date Posted:
2002/11/21 10:19:00 AM EST Author: formhandle <unknown email address> Subject: Re: Read this if you know someone whos… Dreem wrote: >> EC from the chick at >> least a few seconds before >> approaching, the second or >> two before is best, your “Hi” >> or whatever else you want to >> open with will come >> across 10x better. > >This is very true. Another >thing I do, mostly in >superstores, is to let her >know I’m ‘checking’ and then >see how she responds before I >approach. Yes, I do the same thing these days as well. I guess it could be called “remote Gunwitch, pre-approach”. For example, in a bookstore I was blatantly checking out a hot/classy-dressed Chinese chick by herself while she was looking at books in the law section. I was in a bookstore, yet not buying books or even browsing. I was just leaning up against a small table at the end of the aisle BLATANTLY checking her out for 2-3 minutes while she browsed books before I approached. I felt like a panther ready to pounce. She didn’t shy away or move to a different aisle, so I walked up to her and STILL waited a brief second for her to reciprocate EC and I said, “Hi, You look intent on finding a certain book.” Her: (smiling) “blah blah”. My response (roughly) was, “You know, I couldn’t help noticing how intently you’ve been looking for something in particular. I also was noticing that you have a very attractive figure (looking at her from top to bottom)… actually, I couldn’t take my eyes off you.” She took the complement well. I chatted with her for 2-3 minutes (fluff), then took her to the coffee area in the bookstore, initiated kino while at a small table (Maniac style), then extracted her from the bookstore to grab Sushi and progress towards a same-day close. For the record, I didn’t actually close her the same day, but the newbs should pay attention to the progression and how this played out in the context of my having total control from the very beginning by gauging interest non-verbally and setting up a pre-condition of acceptance and a platform for her to initiate her own AI (or IOIs, whatever). I call this pre-conditioning pAImAI (pre-AI male AI)… I’ll be getting more into it while I write that e-book I keep talking about. Anyway, some newbies might be saying “But wait, you COULD have gotten the same result if you still approached quickly with a “Hi” regardless of getting EC from her first, following the 3s rule, etc, etc. Sure, and I could win the lottery today as well. And here’s the thing I left out of the above situation: I was hanging out with a couple of wings that day and one of them approached her using that no-EC method – 3s, fast “Hi”, and crashed even before the fluff stage. She wasn’t there to be *chatted up*, she was there to be *picked up*. Or not. But that’s the frame I used. Both of us had approached her solo while the other guy wasn’t around (both utilizing lone wolf context) and the other guy is better looking than me. So, I would say this is a very scientific example of why one method is superior to another, even though the weaker method might work sometimes and the superior method might fail sometimes. >On >some occasions a chick will >not give EC back but she can >sense that you are >looking at her. Right – one of my wings calls this “telegraphing [intent].” Sometimes it’s bad to telegraph intent – hovering, thinking nervously before approaching, etc. But, if you telegraph in a CONFIDENT way, and she doesn’t find a way to slip away from you somehow before the approach, it’s like she’s giving an IOI right there, effectively saying “approach me.” it established a base of total control for you because she’s already accepted your presence, is receptive to being approached, and not likely to be “surprised” when an opening is initiated. You guys out there reading this right now, PAY ATTENTION. This is better than gold. >So for >example if you’re on the same >side of the store and >you see her looking at >something on the shelf, you >get a bit closer (but >maintain a comfortable >distance) then look toward her >direction for a bit >longer then usual and then >look away. Well, I wouldn’t even care to look away. I would just be careful not to make myself appear like I’m staring. More like “gazing” in a selective way. As if I am trying to make a decision of whether she deserves to be approached by me. >On most occasion >when you look away >she’ll then take a peek at >you, if she lingers around >that area then it’s a >good cue for you to approach. If this works for you, I say stick with it. You might be able to enhance it by having a wing hang back at a safe distance and somehow signal to you non-verbally that she did, in fact, check you out. But I would say that’s unnecessary because that’s coming from a frame of need that you want her to check you out. I would say who cares. If you KNOW she realizes she’s being checked out yet stays put, that’s all you need to know to presume high interest on her end. I was just listening to the first 2 CDs from the Double Your Dating audio course (review copy – will post a review soon) and was reminded of something important David said a few times at the LA seminar – (paraphrased) “Who cares what the chick’s opinion of you is, you progress with what you want regardless.” >This checking thing can be >very powerful. I’ve noticed >that on most >occasions if a chick realises >you’re checking her out, she >gets curious and >begins to act strange, touch >her hair, act nervous etc. Yes. AI. That’s why I call this pre-approach method pAImAI. You are essentially a male using a female tactic. A lot of men might do this naturally, but the difference is in the conscious control of what’s going on, actually acting on the situation, paying attention for AIs and IOIs, capitalizing, and having full confidence to not care if she knows you’re checking her out. This is also the very frame which allows compliments to work VERY well versus trying to compliment a chick out of the blue. Why does this work so well? Because it is the accumulation of initial actions taken by what most women perceive as a REAL MAN. It minimizes the importance of your looks, status, and other external factors, and creates a display of ultimate masculinity. You are a selective man of action. >but >the important >thing is if she lingers >around, then you must >approach. Yes. Shit, man. We’re on the same exact wavelength here! Next time you’re in Boston, dude, drop me a line & we’ll sarge together – didn’t get a chance to at the DyD seminar. Newbies, pay attention! Dream & I are providing you with one of the most powerful initiating structures available. >On some occasions >after doing the checking thing >without EC, I would walk away >from that part >of the store and notice that >the chick would follow me to >the next shelf. AI. This I’ve done as well. And the chick is almost never conscious of her actions. Chicks by themselves will do this 10x more often than when they’re with friends. >then walk to another part of >the store, just to >experiment… and guess >what, a few seconds later she >wanders into that area and >stands right next >to me pretending to be looking >at something the shelf. HAHA – they’re so simple, aren’t they? 🙂 >Non-verbal >communication at play here! >So be careful with this >’checking’, or else you >could get yourself a stalker! Right – as I described above, it’s a fine line between “staring/stalking” and “gazing selectively before approaching”. You MUST approach when the scenario indicates that she has ANY interest whatsoever. Because if you wait too long, she may get impatient and walk away, or think that your gaze is too aggressive. Approaching the chick who got into that mindset will cause her to be fearful rather than interested. Which is why you must capitalize quickly. Even if she doesn’t *appear* to show interest. Better to find out than not. But also better to understand the proper way to structure this type of approach – it takes some practice and a fuckload of confidence, but that will come over time… — jay [[email protected]] Fast Seduction 101 – http://www.fastseduction.com/ Class is now in session… |
