The Most
Predominantly Acceptable
ASF (Alt.Seduction.Fast) FAQ
Most recently modified on: March 3, 2002, 12:56 PM, EST
Disclaimer: This FAQ is no more of an official FAQ for the ASF/mASF (alt.seduction.fast/alt.seduction.fast.*) and newsgroups than any other FAQ someone might compile. It is merely a collection of opinions of what the author(s) and contributors believe to be helpful information to ASF newcomers, organized in a clear and concise way. Suggestions and contributions are welcome, although the authors reserve the right of final decision as to what ends up in this document – contact information is at the end of this document. This FAQ is, however, official in regards to the moderated ASF forums available through the Fast Seduction 101 systems at http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/. The policies laid out in this document are expected to be followed strictly when posting to the moderated ASF forums.
Sections
- Introduction (about this FAQ and ASF)
- Purpose of ASF
- Rules for ASF
- ASF Resources
- Commonly Used Terms
- Commonly Asked Questions
- Speed Seduction FAQ
- Contact/Credit Information
- Copyright notice
Introduction (about this FAQ and ASF) >back to top
1. Where can I find the latest version of this document?
There are a few official mirror sites for this document (both in ASCII form and HTML form):
If you would like to mirror this document, please don’t do so without first contacting one of the authors for permission and instructions. For convenience, pointers to this FAQ or this FAQ itself will be auto-posted to ASF in ASCII form on a regular basis.
2. What is ASF?
ASF stands for “alt.seduction.fast” which is an Internet Usenet newsgroup (as well as the root hierarchy for the moderated versions of the newsgroup). ASF is a communication forum for discussing various fast pick up and seduction techniques. It is a group for discussing how to pick up women, fast; as opposed to discussing marriage theory.
3. Where is the Charter for ASF?
Although the moderated ASF forums contain a Charter (made available through that system) there there currently is no reliable source for retrieving the original creation request (“control” message) or Charter which may have been included in such a request. However, the oldest archived messages for ASF (mostly booster and rmgroup control messages and arguments between admins) can be found at:
ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/control/alt/alt.seduction.fast.Z
In the opinion of the authors, the best current and future source of information regarding the ASF newsgroup is this FAQ. This is explicitly the case for the moderated ASF forums.
4. Is ASF a moderated newsgroup?
No, ASF has no moderators and has never been officially moderated. The ASF forums available through the Fast Seduction 101 systems, however, ARE moderated.
5. Is there an official administrator for ASF?
No, ASF has no administrators, although some occasional posters on ASF might claim they administer the group or are the “official FAQ admin”. It is best to ignore such claims by those people, and perhaps ignore those posters entirely. The ASF forums available through the Fast Seduction 101 systems, however, DO have official administrators, primarily the maintainer of the Fast Seduction 101 web site.
6. What is the purpose of this FAQ?
The purpose of this document is to help new and current users of ASF understand what the forum is about, what rules may exist for becoming involved with discussions, and how to get the most out of the forum. This FAQ will give the reader a healthy head start on what ASF is all about.
The ASF newsgroup was presumably created for at least the partial purpose of Speed Seduction, a commercial product based on using NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) in combination with various verbal seduction techniques, with the additional expectation that users of the forum could also discuss other, general [fast] seduction techniques. Since there is no reliable source for an original control message containing the group Charter, it’s not possible to decisively confirm this. Therefore, the best inferences that can be made about the core purpose of the group is based on a number of quantifiable factors:
- The name of the group in the alt. hierarchy.
- The majority and type of posts appearing on the group in the past year (prior to the original creation date of this FAQ).
- The voiced opinions of a number of regular posters to ASF.
The purpose of ASF is for discussing how to pick up women, fast, using a number of techniques. These techniques are constantly being tested and improved upon by the posters of ASF. This includes ideas on initial contact with women, various ways of quickly attracting a woman, avoiding pitfalls and common mistakes, and learning from the ideas, successes, and failures of others. One good example of how this process works takes the form of regular “Outing/Field Reports” which are descriptions of the steps people have taken in various situations and how those situations turned out. The rest of the group can then analyze this material, critique it, make suggestions, and use it as a model for their own pick up attempts. It’s one big learning process.
In order to keep the group sane, useful, and within reasonable order, it is requested that posters to the group follow the rules outlined below (as well as the Usenet posting rules their ISP has mandated upon them). If you do not wish to follow these rules, please do not post to the group. The participants of the moderated ASF forums are expected to follow these guidelines more strictly.
1. SPAMMING
No spam of any kind is allowed on ASF. If you have a product to sell or a commercial web site to advertise, please don’t try to blatantly sell it or advertise it to the readers of the group. URLs in sigs is fine and it’s perfectly normal to discuss commercial products within the bounds of a conversation but blatant, unbiased advertising for any product will not be tolerated. Posting such material will likely result in a number of the regular posters reporting you to your ISP’s abuse department.
2. GROUP DISRUPTION
Sometimes conversations can get pretty heated. Sometimes heated discussions go so far off-topic that many readers of the group will become extremely agitated. This behavior is called a “group disruption” and is very damaging to the ongoing usefulness of the group. If you end up creating 2 or more group disruptions, you may be asked to stop posting, cool off, or get back on topic by other people in the group. Ignoring such a request and continuing to blatantly disrupt the group will likely result in a number of the regular posters reporting you to your ISP’s abuse department. Note that simply arguing or disagreeing with somebody is not necessarily a disruption of the group. Doing that, getting completely off-topic, and annoying people all at the same time is considered a group disruption.
3. FLAMING
If you need to flame someone, take it to alt.flame. If you disagree with someone’s opinion, please respect the purpose of the group and disagree quietly if you can. If a discussion can’t help but get heated, you take the risk of causing a group disruption (as outlined in item 2.) if the argument is taken too far or goes too far off-topic.
4. CROSSPOSTING
Crossposting is permitted, to a maximum of 2 additional groups, as long as the groups being crossposted to are within the topical sphere of ASF and the readers of the other group(s) do not object to your post. However, posters are asked to keep their crossposting to a minimum. Lurk on a group before posting to it so that you get a good idea of what the acceptable topics are. Your ISP may also have their own restrictions in place regarding crossposted articles.
5. PERSONAL ADS
ASF is not an appropriate place to post a personal advertisements. Do not post personal ads in ASF.
6. DON’T FEED THE TROLLS
If you detect somebody is trolling the group, possibly trying to cause a subtle disruption, please simply reply that you believe the person is a troll and end it at that. See item 3. If you feel the need to respond to a troll, please try to at least be concise (and witty) and please prepend the word TROLL (all caps) to the beginning of the subject line of your response.
7. PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC
What is on-topic for ASF? Basically, any discussion about seduction techniques and methods which help achieve the goal of finding, meeting, and attracting women quickly. Some posters will want to focus on a specific method they may use, while others use a combination of various methods. Ask yourself this question before you post. “Will this post serve to advance my knowledge or other peoples’ knowledge of fast seduction techniques and their practical applications?” If the answer is yes, post it. Else, keep it to yourself. If you absolutely positively must post something off-topic, please prepend OT: or OFF-TOPIC: (all caps) to the beginning of the subject line of your post.
The best resources for ASF information (beyond the group hierarchy itself), along with a searchable posting archive, related links, hand-picked useful posts, etc. can be found at:
Formhandle’s site:
Fast Seduction 101 – http://www.fastseduction.com/
The largest and most-trafficked compedium of pick-up/seduction knowledge and discussion on the planet. Resources include: Player Guide integrated with a Player Board, mASF forum, ASF searchable archive, integration with Maniac’s Pick Up Girl’s Guide, Pick-up Artists International Registry (P.A.I.R.), links archive, common terms list, mailing list archives, articles, product reviews, real-time chat, etc.Maniac’s site:
Pick up Girls Guide – http://www.pickupguide.com/
Maniac’s indispensable guide. Hand-picked posts of interest from ASF with useful commentary. More links to other pages of interest.Kill Filters:
A useful, growing list of Kill Filters for ASF (if your newsreader or newsfeed supports filters based on regular expressions) can be found at:
http://www.fastseduction.com/filters.shtmlRecommended reading:
For newbies to ASF, it’s a good idea to read the archived newsletters at:
http://www.seduction.com/
Some newsletters may sound like informecials for Speed Seduction, but they are a must read to give you a good head start on the ideas behind a lot of the SS-related stuff posted on ASF/mASF.
Commonly Used Terms>back to top
The most up-to-date listing of the most commonly use acronyms, slang, and terms used on ASF can be found at:
Commonly Asked Questions >back to top
This list of questions is currently being compiled and is a work in progress. We will make our best effort to associate any answer that directly references a particular person’s public posting with that person and make our best effort in good faith to place a credit notice next to any answer which is believed to be credited to another someone else. If you have suggestions or additions for the questions/answers on this list, you can contact one of the FAQ authors (contact info at bottom of FAQ).
- “There’s this one woman (I’ve been chasing for X days/months/years)… how do I get her to [like / love / sleep with me]?”
- “I’m interested in a particular girl I know from [work, school, a club, whatever], can you tell me how to get her to [like me, date me, sleep with me, whatever]?”
- “But I don’t have one-itis – my situation is different.”
- “If ordinary guys get laid why do I need all this information?”
- “What’s the best way to learn all this stuff? There is so much material!”
- “Where can I meet women?”
- “How do I approach women?”
- “What is the ‘Universal Opener’?”
- “How can I hide my nervousness around a woman? How can I fix my shyness?”
- “How does height (or generally the way one looks, or how old one is) influence success with women?”
- “How can I build and improve my self-confidence and charm?”
- “Do commercially sold pheromones work to help attract women?”
- “What is wrong with me?”
- “What does a woman want to see in a man she just meets?”
- “What does it mean when a woman says ‘I want a man who knows what he wants and knows how to get it.’?”
- “When is the best time to hug, kiss, or shake hands after meeting a woman?”
- “Why don’t women like ‘nice guys’? Why do they like ‘bad boys’?”
- “If I’m not supposed to be a ‘nice guy’, do I have to be a jerk?”
- “How can I change my ‘nice guy’ image?”
- “What are the best openers (pick up lines) when meeting women?”
- “What is Mystery’s ‘Elvis opener/script’?”
- “What is the best attitude to have when trying to attract women?”
- “What does one talk about when first approaching a girl? Should certain topics be emphasized/avoided?”
- “How do I have a 1 on 1 conversation with a woman (‘how do I talk to women’)?”
- “What is ‘Paralysis of Analysis’ (coined by Vincent) and associated conditions?”
- “How do I convey personality?”
- “How do I make a woman see me as an opportunity rather than just another guy?”
- “What does a woman mean when she says…?”
- “What’s the best way to answer the question ‘What do you do for a living?’?”
- “Why do women do what they do (what is ‘chick logic’)?”
- “Why don’t (most) women ask men out?”
- “What is mirroring, how is it used, and what does it do?”
- “What is a ‘neg’ or ‘neg hit’ or ‘neg theory’?”
- “What is the 3s (3 second) rule?”
- “How can I know if she likes me?”
- “How do I get a woman who is not interested, to go out with me?”
- “What do I do if she says she has a boyfriend?”
- “How do I get a woman’s phone number?”
- “What do I do or say if when I ask a women for her number, she says ‘Why don’t you give me YOUR number?’ in a way that she is giving me a hard time to get her number ot ouright refusing to give it?”
- “How do I know the phone number she gave me is legit?”
- “After getting a woman’s phone number, when should I call, what should I say, how do I set up a date?”
- “What’s a good message to leave on my answering machine?”
- “What do I do If I get her answering machine?”
- “What do I do if she gives me a beeper number instead of her phone number or e-mail address?”
- “Where should I meet or take her when setting up a second meeting (after a number close)?”
- “Who pays? Should I pay? When should I pay? When should I not pay?”
- “How do I get a woman (or women) to come back to my place the same day I meet her/them?”
- “How do I get a woman (or women) to come back to my place after we’ve gotten together one or more times?”
- “How do I treat or deal with a woman who doesn’t call back or cancels dates?”
- “How can I avoid a woman telling me ‘Let’s just be friends.’?”
- “How do I turn a ‘friend’ into a ‘lover’, how can I get out of LJBF (‘Let’s Just Be Friends’) land, or I’ve just been LJBF’d – what do I do?”
- “What does ‘elicit values’ mean? How does one elicit values?”
- “What is the ‘bitch shield’? How do I bypass it?”
- “What is supplication?”
- “What is NLP?”
- “What is an ‘alpha male’?”
- “What is a ‘takeaway’?”
- “What is seduction?”
- “Where and how do I start using all this new knowledge?”
- “How do I ask her if she has a STD (Sexually Transmitted Disease)?”
- “How can I date more than 1 woman at a time?”
- “Are there any regular posters on ASF that I should pay attention to more than others?”
- “Are there any regular posters on ASF that I should try to ignore?”
- “I have a question about SS (Speed Seduction). Where should I go?”
- “What are some highly recommended books I should read?”
- “I’ve seen ads for penis enlargement products. Is it really possible to enlarge my penis?”
Q: “There’s this one woman (I’ve been chasing for X days/months/years)… how do I get her to [like / love / sleep with me]?”
A: This is called “one-itis“. An AFC who doesn’t realize he’s an AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) will never understand why nobody can answer this question for him or why he will never be able to get this woman with his current mindset. First, you have to realize that if you’re thinking this way, you will always be an AFC and will almost always fail with women (you’re only sucesses coming from luck – hence, the term “getting lucky” which is used often by AFC types). Here’s why you can’t win over this woman: you don’t yet know how to go out and get 10 more desireable women in a short amount of time. If you DID know how to do that, you would not be obsessed with getting this one woman and you would already know how to answer your own question. Why? Think about it. If you could go out and have 10 (or more) women who are smarter, nicer, more beautiful, and more exciting than the one you are obsessing about, how important do you think she would be to you? You see, you can’t just go from being an AFC to PUA (Pick-up Artist) without a certain understanding. You have to first admit to yourself that you’re an AFC and get into recovery mode, becoming an RAFC (Recovering AFC). Learn to stop thinking like an AFC and the road to becoming a PUA will be clear. Once that road is clear, you will begin to understand the answer to this question. The reason this question is so difficult for an AFC to grasp is that truly understanding the answer is an epiphany.
[jetman coined one-itis, one of the most problematic symptoms of AFCs]
Q: “I’m interested in a particular girl I know from [work, school, a club, whatever], can you tell me how to get her to [like me, date me, sleep with me, whatever]?”
A: “One-itis” strikes again. First, go sleep with 10 other women in the next month and then decide afterwards whether you still want to pursue this particular woman. If you already have the skill to bed that many women in a month then you already know the answer to your question. Otherwise, you need to work on your skills for doing just that – by reading the posts on ASF, participating in discussions, absorbing and experimenting with the knowledge you learn from others. Once you’ve done that, the woman you’re pining over now will likely disappear from your mind, knowing that your choice of women has increased vastly.
Q: “But I don’t have one-itis – my situation is different.”
A: It’s one-itis. Get over it.
There is only one reason why people will tell you that it sounds like one-itis, even though you have clarified in the beginning that “I assure you…it is not…”
The simple fact of the matter is that this forum, this *seduction* forum, has NO SPECIFIC ADVICE on landing “that one girl” – it is IMPOSSIBLE for the people here giving and asking advice to pinpoint exactly what makes this one girl “friend” of yours tick, so it would be impossible to say with certainty what to do to get her. [Formhandle: And, if it were possible for you to provide detailed information about her, what her values are, what her “map of the world” or belief system is like, then you would have all you need to begin leading her to a lay in the first place and you would not be asking for this kind of advice. Which means that your problem isn’t “that one girl”, it’s your lack of understanfing in general in being able to diagnose what’s missing in your PU skills. So the answer to your question can never be how to get that one girl, it’s that you need to figure out what PU and seduction skills you are lacking and start practicing and applying those missing skills on many other chicks.]
…the reason people will tell you that you need to “F**K ten other women” is still valid, because you will not know what you have to do with her until you have the skills to FTOW. It is that simple, and that is the only advice the best PUA’s can give.
~Sandstorm, mASF, 2002/02/28
Here’s an analogy:
You’re a lousy baseball player and somehow managed to get yourself signed up as a rookie hitter in some major league team. So in your first few games, you go up to swing the bat at pitches from a typical major league pitcher. He’s nothing special, he just happens to be worthy to be on a major league team. You keep striking out because, well, you’ve so far in your life been a lousy baseball player. But it’s cool to be on a major league team… and you don’t want to get cut. So if you want to stay on the team, you have to learn to hit.
You go to your coach and say, “Coach, I’m hitting lousy against this one pitcher, but I want to be really good at hitting in the major leagues. Can you tell me how I can get a hit through that one pitcher?” The coach says, “Your problem isn’t that one pitcher, your problem is that you’re a lousy hitter and have never played in the majors. Just practice with the team and play through the season against other pitchers and by the end of the season you’ll be in good form. And, who knows, you may even run up against that one pitcher at the end of the season after you’ve gained all your new skills and be able to get a hit off him then.”
The guy who doesn’t understand or accept what the coach is saying responds with, “But coach, I want to hit good against that one pitcher now! How is finishing up the season with field training and practice going to help me against that one pitcher now?”
Q: “If ordinary guys get laid why do I need all this information?”
You can find the answer to that question at:
Q: “What’s the best way to learn all this stuff? There is so much material!”
You can find the answer to that question at:
Q: “Where can I meet women?”
A: Just about anywhere. Location is really not too important. The obviously blatant pick up places like clubs and bars will have more potentially available women but that scene is also difficult to succeed in if you have no pick up skills yet. When starting out, you can use those places as practice. Think of it as a game where winning or losing doesn’t matter – it’s the fun of seeing what responses you get that’s important. Anywhere you find a woman that attracts you is a great opportunity to say something new, different. Study the responses, adjust your responses from past results and eventually you’ll see that women can be met anywhere – the trick is attracting them once you find them.
More suggestions:
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=98107424888714
An article with even more suggestions:
Q: “How do I approach women?”
A: In the beginning, as you’re learning, quickly and without hesitation. The more you think about what you want to say and how you want to say it, the more likely it is that you’ll discourage yourself from the actual approach and psych yourself out. You must act so quickly that you don’t have time to think. Say the first thing that comes to mind. If nothing comes to mind say “Hi, I noticed something about you…” Then pause and wait for her to say “What? What did you notice?” (women are intensely curious when such a comment is made to them). The few seconds it takes her to get impatient and ask you what you noticed is probably enough time for you to take a closer look at her and actually find something to say. “I noticed you’re halfway through the book you’re reading – what’s it about?” or “I noticed the deep tan you have – did you just come back from a tropical vacation?” Whatever – anything that could possibly lead to a continued conversation. The more answers you’re able to get out of her, the more questions you end up being able to ask until eventually a full blown conversation takes place and you get a better opportunity to create rapport with her – a connection.
Q: “What is the ‘Universal Opener’?”
A: “Hi.”
Q: “How can I hide my nervousness around a woman? How can I fix my shyness?”
A: What makes you nervous is taking yourself too seriously and thinking too much about what she thinks (or will think) of you. Shyness can’t be fixed or hidden – you simply have to disregard the negative thoughts your mind is telling you. Approaching women quickly, more often, and without thinking about what you’re going to say first will strengthen your resolve over time and diminish those types of thoughts running through your mind. Never approach a woman thinking “I must absolutely make a good first impression or she’ll never…” Instead think, “I wonder what she’ll do when I tell her X, Y , or Z” and don’t worry so much that she might not respond the way you want – most women won’t. At least not until you’ve gained rapport and a chance to lead the conversation (and her) in the direction you want to go.
Q: “How does height (or generally the way one looks, or how old one is) influence success with women?”
A: It doesn’t influence success all that much except in extreme situations. And, even in those situations, you focus n adjustign what you can (environment, kind of women you choose, relevant tactics). Frankly, the only time it truly matters is if there are other guys attracting her attention in the immediate vicinity who are taller/younger/richer/etc. AND have a personality edge over you. If you find yourself in those types of situations too often, you need to improve your personality and charisma or change your environment when finding women to pick up. Focus on the things you CAN change or improve, not the things you can’t.
Q: “How can I build and improve my self-confidence and charm?”
A: Start simple. Don’t try everything you’ve learned all at once. Approach many women. Say whatever comes to mind. Study the responses. Carry it as far as you can go and if it doesn’t work out, find another woman and try again. Over time, not only will you learn how to quickly gain rapport with almost any woman, you’ll also gradually gain confidence, quick-thinking for immediate conversation starters, and the ability to stretch “fluff talk” long enough to elicit her values (her value words) which can then help you lead the conversation. For example, if she says “I like bright colors…” or “It’s a really bright day out…” then you can ask “What is it about bright, colorful things that you like so much? She might respond “They remind me of my youth – carefree times”. Then you can lead the conversation into things that associate you with memories of her youth, and reinforce the idea that you are a carefree person. Practice methods like this over and over with different women until it becomes part of your nature. You will then have self-confidence and charm without ever thinking about it.
Q: “Do commercially sold pheromones (or any pheromones for that matter) work to help attract women?”
A: First, you must understand and accept that the most potent attraction tool you can ever use is your brain. Although pheromones have been scientifically proven to affect mating actions in various creatures, there’s been no ultimately conclusive scientifically repeatable study done on humans. So, until that happens, the answer is NO. However, there is a lot of information on the Internet about pheromones (just do a search on Google or Yahoo). A reader, Alex, sent me a thesis paper on the subject available at http://www.fastseduction.com/archives/PheromonesPaper.zip which may be interesting to read. Although this paper can be distributed for non-profit interests, all other rights are retained by the original author.
If anyone can provide me with more insightful information, legitimate studies available on the topic, resources, and (assuming there are some commercially available pheromones do work) a list of products along with rating, company name, and ordering information.
Q: “What is wrong with me?”
A: Nothing. Any doubt you have in yourself is insecurity you are emanating to others. If you don’t like yourself, how do you expect others to like you? If you ever find yourself thinking “What is wrong with me?”, change the thought to “I can’t wait for her to find out what a great guy I am. It will be a shame for her if she doesn’t get the chance.”
Q: “What does a woman want to see in a man she just meets?”
A: A man who isn’t like other men. Someone with the ability to challenge her. A man who “knows what he wants and knows how to get it.”
Q: “What does it mean when a woman says ‘I want a man who knows what he wants and knows how to get it.’?”
A: When women say “I want a man who knows what he wants and knows how to get it.” she is actually saying: “I want to be chased. When a man chases me, I feel better about myself.” It also means she’s in control to a certain degree, and although I would say that she THINKS she wants to be in control, she really doesn’t because if the man knows what he wants, then she’s abdicating responsibility to a degree and subsuming her desires for his.
~Hugh, ASF, 1999/04/15
Be careful, however, when applying the “chase” methodology. Women are sometimes charmed by a man who actively “chases” them but the part of that which is actually attractive is the idea of pusuit without concern over outcome. If you actively pursue a woman and she becomes your only focus and you do things for her as your primary tactic to get her interested in you, she will not be attracted to that.
Q: “When is the best time to hug, kiss, or shake hands after meeting a woman?”
A: It depends on the situation, but don’t think of it as “hugging, kissing, or shaking hands.” Think of it as basically physical touching, and do it whenever it could come off as the most natural thing to do. For example, when talking to a woman at a bar (which might be crowded and noisy), lean in and talk very close into her ear while touching the side of her arm or elbow. This type of touching is also known as a “kinesthetic approach”, kino for short. You want a women, soon after meeting her, to feel comfortable (and possibly aroused) with this type of touching from you. It displays to her that you are a sexual being and are not afraid to move in close or make contact. Don’t treat touching like a business affair, treat it like subtle animalistic human contact. Your hand stroking her hair, touching her hand, arm around her shoulder, whispering in her hear and making sure your lips brush against her lobes. That sort of thing. Obviously not done when first running into a woman on the street but over time with practice you’ll learn when the right time is. But keep in mind that if you wait too long before first starting kino, it may come off as unatural. First and foremost, you want to be congruent with how you act.
Q: “Why don’t women like ‘nice guys’? Why do they like ‘bad boys’?”
A: Contrary to popular opinion, women do like nice guys. What they don’t like is guys who let women walk all over them. They don’t want a doormat and they don’t want a supplicating fool. Women walk all over nice guys because nice guys let them do it. Women *want* to be treated like ladies, with respect and adoration, but they don’t know what to do when they are treated that way. They are simply not wired to expect this sort of treatment from a man who could be a potential mate. It’s not the type of behavior that arouses them. In fact, it has the opposite affect. But that doesn’t mean you need to be a “bad boy” or jerk to get what you want, it just means that you have to show women that you cannot be walked all over. It means you DON’T supplicate yourself with a woman. Think of it like a reward system. In order for you to do something nice for her, she MUST first do something nice for you. Not the other way around. For example, past posts from Nathan on ASF outlined the following example to explain the reward system:
You’re at a club/bar/whatever and see an attractive woman sitting/standing alone waiting to pick up her drink or basically not doing anything. Move in and say “If you buy me a drink, I’ll let you kiss me.” Sure, it doesn’t work in all scenarios, and doesn’t work with all guys/women or personality types but if you dissect the problem, you’ll notice a few key things you’ve portrayed to her in a rather short comment:
– You’re a man who “knows what he wants and knows how to get it.”
– You don’t supplicate by asking to buy her a drink. Instead, you suggest she buys YOU a drink.
– You’re telling her that you’ll “reward” her, but only if she provides you with something you want.
– The “reward” is actually something *you* want but it doesn’t come off that way.
– You’re fun and daring.Once in a while, some woman will actually take you up on the offer and not only do you turn the game around, but other women at the club/bar/whatever will notice this (without knowing what you said to her) and their own interest will be enhanced, opening up more opportunities.
An average chump, on the other hand, will usually awkwardly hang around the bar wand wait to find women who they can offer to buy drinks FOR. Losers. AFCs. Supplicators. “Nice guys.” They’re the first to get stepped on, used, then ignored, and the last to get laid. These guys will call getting laid “getting lucky” because that’s what it takes for them to successfully seduce a woman – luck.
Q: “If I’m not supposed to be a ‘nice guy’, do I have to be a jerk?”
A: Not in the least. The nice guy / jerk spectrum is too wide to describe the actual personality you should be displaying to women. People only think “jerks” because jerks never supplicate. But you don’t have to be a jerk to avoid supplication and you don’t have to be obnoxious to get what you want.
Q: “How can I change my ‘nice guy’ image?”
A: What you want to do is learn the types of actions that might label you an Average Frustrated Chump (AFC). Then avoid doing those things. An example, don’t bring a woman flowers if you’re just asking her to coffee. Don’t ask for her number before conveying personality and gaining rapport – in fact, don’t ask for her number at all directly. Let her figure that out when you end a conversation and indicate you have somewhere else to be (“I enjoyed our conversation. I have to go now – what do you think we need to do in order to continue this at another time?”) or be direct and SUGGEST that she give you her number. If you’ve successfully attracted her, she’ll whip out a paper/pen because she’ll WANT to give you her number. Don’t compliment her excessively when first meeting her (although, ocasionally, it helps to give a woman ONE *honest* compliment when first approaching on her). Don’t put her on a pedestal. Don’t spend money or a lot of time on a particular woman unless she’s already reciprocated your attempts at attention.
Q: “What are the best openers (pick up lines) when meeting women?”
A: In general, “pick up lines” suck. A simple “Hello” is much better than a line anyone can give you. The reason is that a canned, contrived line sounds like just what it is: canned and contrived. Remember Mystery’s formula: FMAC (Find Meet Attract Close). You do not hit on her. You display personality, make her like you, elicit her values, reflect them back at her, then structure an opportunity for her to spend time with you. A pickup line that sounds like a pick up line makes you sound unoriginal. How many lines do you think she’s heard that night?
The exception is GM style – an advanced method that uses crude lines and filthy jokes in a fun, “just-kidding” way.
~maddman75, 2000/11/25
An added note regarding “pick-up lines”: Through the course of reading information on FastSeduction.com, you’ll come across many examples of canned “openers”. Those are not so much “pick-up lines” as they are a conversational structure for initiatign conversation. Those canned openers are very useful to guys first starting out and getting used to approachign and talking to a lot of women, but you must remember to never allow such canned material to become a cructh for you. You can use the material to get you started and get over any approach fears you might have, but then gradually challenge yourself to find more creative and dynamic ways to open up conversations with women.
Q: “What is Mystery’s ‘Elvis opener/script’?”
A: First, you should understand that this is an EXAMPLE only of how to do a canned opener. It is NOT something you should do verbatim. Seduction is a process and has a structure but regurgitating words you’ve read from the Internet is not the way to seduce or even attract a woman, although it might give you the initial attention you’ll need to progress to something else. The “Elvis script” (as well as “Blonde opener”, “ESP routine” etc.) has become somewhat of an unspoken joke around mASF and it’s frankly quite disturbing that so many newbies and AFCs beg to get a hold of it, as if they have no creativity, capability, or desire to learn how to structure a PU that they think they need and can get away with using some overused, canned opener and script. The question you need to ask yourself is: “OK, I repeat this stuff to a chick. Then what?” If you don’t know what happens after “Then what?”, you clearly won’t understand the purpose of this example and you’ve got to keep learning and, more importantly, go out into the field and try a lot of DIFFERENT things, watch for reactions, see what happens.
Alright, in light of all that, and because it gets asked way too often on ASF, here’s the damn Elvis script:
“Did you know that Elvis dyed his hair black? What was his natural hair color?”
“Dirty Blond.”
“Did you know that Priscilla Presley also dyed her hair?”
“I don’t know what her natural hair color was, I’m not Cliff Claven, but can you picture that these two every couple of weeks would dye their hair black together around a dirty sink in some sick mass-appealing ceremonial ritual? I bet people never considered that before … did you?”
Alternative:
“Did you know that all Elvis had to do to get a shag was look directly into the girl’s eyes and smile?”
Then look into the chick’s eyes and smile.
Q: “What is the best attitude to have when trying to attract women?”
A: I am the prize. I like what I see so far, so I’ll give her an opportunity to show me that she’s worth my time and effort. If she rejects me, she’s a fool. I’ll just go find the next lucky chick and let her have what this chick is throwing away.
~maddman75, 2000/11/25
Also, it’s a very good idea to shut off that whiny voice inside your head when meeting and attempting to attract a woman. Don’t listen to any voice in your head that says “Am I doing this right?”, “What is she thinking about me?”, “Are other people watching?”, “Damn, she’s so beautiful.”, “I’m so nervous…”
Q: “What does one talk about when first approaching a girl? Should certain topics be emphasized/avoided?”
A: This is called “fluff talk” and usually the best topic of conversation is what the girl is interested in. Unless you’re braindead, you can usually get to this by asking someone general questions about the surroundings/environment, something you noticed about her, a funny thing that popped into your head, if she’s with a group of people (men, women, or a mixture) “So, how do you all know each other?” Or maybe compliment of piece of clothing and ask her where she got it. Whatever. The point is to let her lead into a topic that perhaps she’s interested in, not to dwell on the fluff topics. Then ask a few more questions (not too many or she’ll feel like she’s being grilled), get some answers and you’re done “fluff talking”, ready to get into the good stuff.
Topics to be avoided unless SHE brings them up AND appears to be very interested in them (in regards to herself): work, school, weather, sports.
Topics to be avoided at all costs: anything negative. If a chick brings up something negative, find a way to subtly change the subject into somethign positive or change her negative perception into a positive one.
Topics, that if you get into, will draw you into the LJBF zone: Listening to her drone on and on about her current relationships wihtout using that material to elicit what it will take to attract and/or seduce her. In those situations, only listen to her talk about it enough to get what you need to progress the conversation where you want it to go. Otherwise, even if you are eliciting information from her rambling on about her man related problems or past relationships or frustration with a current male interest, she won’t know you are listening in order to find a means to attract and seduce her – her thoughts will drift into the zone that you will be a prime candidate for LJBF.
Q: “How do I have a 1 on 1 conversation with a woman (‘how do I talk to women’)?”
A: Check out http://www.pickupguide.com/ and look at the Maniac Plan. This has example stories, what kind of things to talk about, and what order to talk in. There’s about 2-4 hours worth of topics. You can always make yourself some notes… If you get lost, go to the john and refresh your memory. Keep in mind that the Maniac Plan is just a loose structure to help you keep up a long conversation with many opportunities to pick up on values and “trance” words the target may utter. It’s a good idea to use the Maniac Plan as a starter and then build up your own stories and conversation pieces.
Q: “What is ‘Paralysis of Analysis’ (coined by Vincent) and associated conditions?”
Paralysis of Analysis is when a guy is over-thinking a situation as it is happening, causing him to literally paralyze himself from acting one way or another. In most circumstances, it’s best to at least work on what you WANT to do (or at least on instinct if it compels you to do something) than to allow yourself to freeze up.
More from Jetman:
Pancake Ass:
A condition that results in the ass being in the shape of a pancake (flat) from sitting too long, contemplating action, instead of taking it.
Student Complex:
A condition that results from someone studying, researching, and reading about actions to take, while not having enough field experience to know what part of the material to apply to a given situation.Q: “How do I convey personality?”
A: First, don’t confuse “personality” to mean goofiness or acting eccentric. Conveying personality means portraying yourself as someone who is entertaining, confident, and at ease in his environment, someone who can stand out on his own rather than depending on external factors such as clothes, choice of friends, venue, gimmicks, etc. But before portraying that, you must first make a woman totally fascinated by you. This can be done in your initial approach, with the type of opener you choose or the initial things you say or ask.
Think about what most guys say to a woman when they first approach them and ask yourself “Is this something she’s heard 100 times already?” It may be OK if you plan to simply fluff talk with her first but ask yourself if you can be better than that and say something unexpected, something she isn’t likely to have ever heard before. Generally, this might actually be what you really want to say to her since it will at least come across as honest and sincere. But that depends on the circumstance and things you might need to work against like obstacles/cockblocks or “bitch shields“. Still, don’t underestimate the power of the Universal Opener, or the power of EC and a smile.
Now, to portay personality, isn’t so much trying to be a character but rather be a certain way. For example, if she is with a group, convey joy in getting to know the people in her group before putting your focus on HER. If an obstacle cockblocks you, don’t get angry or frustrated but rather disable the obstacle by diverting your attention to them and warm them up – pacify them, don’t be afraid to lose the taget’s attention. Disabling an obstacle should only take a 5-20 seconds. Tell your target something quirky or funny but don’t be overly excited. Radiate happiness but not so much that it comes off as fake. Remember to smile. Remember to use kino, touch her arm when you lean in to talk to her, show no fear of intimacy. Don’t slouch. Pay attention to what she says and mirror her values back to her in your language. Mirror her body postures and mannerisms. Mirror her breathing. There are a ton of other things you can do which will not only let you portray youself as someone with “personality” but will also help you establish rapport with her.
Q: “How do I make a woman see me as an opportunity rather than just another guy?”
A: First, you need to convey personality to her – fascinate her and establish to her that you are interesting, beyond just an initial glance. It doesn’t matter if your life might be viewed as “boring” or “average” (i.e. you’re an accountant and aren’t an outdoors type or don’t go out and party every night), as long as you can fascinate her with your initial approach (or after some initial fluff talk), stir her emotions, and then pace and lead her emotions. Do all of that and simultaneously build rapport (through your language, mirroring) and anchor all those new good feelings she’s having to YOU.
Even doing all that, your job isn’t over. All of that setup is meaningless to YOU unless you structure an opportunity for her to get with you. Structuring an opportunity doesn’t mean ask her for her number or ask her out. It means present an opportunity for HER to decide to get with you – whether that means immediately or some time in the near future. You don’t want to be seen as someone who’s looking for something or someone to add to your life, you already HAVE a life and have this interesting, amaazing quality about you. If she wants to be a part of that or get a piece of that, SHE is the one who should take the opportunity you present.
Q: “What does a woman mean when she says…?”
A: Just about anything. But generally, depending on the context of conversation, a woman will be giving you clues as to what she wants and, in doing so, will basically provide you with a roadmap of what it will take to seduce her. Sometimes a women will say somethign to “test” your response. Be aware that the meaning behind what women say could have a subtext and that subtext could either be an avenue to learn about what it will take to attract/seduce her or a means for her to test your response.
Q: “What’s the best way to answer the question ‘What do you do for a living?’?”
A: With passion and in a positive light. Whatever it is, act as if its great, and you’re doing exactly what you want to be doing. If you work someplace where this isn’t really believable (say, McDonalds) say you’re going to school to be XXX. If you’re not in school, say you’re saving up for tuition, or working toward management. You want to appear as someone with ambition, or as chicks so often put it “a man who knows what he wants and how to get it.”
~maddman75, 2000/11/25
Always keep in mind that she’s not asking you because she really and truly cares what you do for a living, she just wants some insight into who you are so there’s no reason not to give it a positive spin.
Q: “Why do women do what they do (what is ‘chick logic‘)?”
A: Chick logic is a misnomer. It is NOT logical. Chicks base their decisions about relationships on their emotional state at that time. They then justify their actions later. Essentially, they do what they want then make up a reason for doing so later.
~maddman75, 2000/11/25
Note: When discussing “chick logic“, some might bring up the term “guy logic”. Don’t be fooled into thinking the terms are equivalent. “Guy logic” basically means LOGIC. Logic doesn’t get you laid. Trying to understand chick logic won’t get you laid. Understanding how to read a woman, know what she is feeling, and leading her states/imagination WILL get you laid.
Q: “Why don’t (most) women ask men out?”
A: Just accept it as fact and move on. It’s a societal thing, not worth trying to figure out. There are multitudes of reasons, almost all based on chick logic.
Q: “What is mirroring, how is it used, and what does it do?”
A: Mirroring is a means to gain subcoscious rapport with someone by copying them physically and verbally. For example, if you are sitting across from someone and they cross their leg, you would cross yours. If they are tilting their head, you tilt your head. If they are talking slowly, you talk slowly. You can also try to pay attention to their breathing rhythm and match it (but only if you can pull it off without staring at their chest! – some guys have suggested using your peripheral vision for this). Voice tonality and and subtle mannerisms can also be mirrored. Generally, when people gain true rapport with someone, the physical and verbal mirroring happens naturally. By being consciously aware of your own body language» and matching it to someone else’s while in conversation with them, you can give their subconscious mind the impression that rapport already exists.
Some people worry that mirroring will be too obvious and that the other person will “catch” them. However, unless you’re being blatantly obvious, exaggerating your mirroring, or copying everything they do, they will simply accept it without consciously realizing. As an excercise, go out and find people who seem to have good rapport and watch their body language» as they communicate. Also, go out and try to be blatantly obvious with your mirroring and see how much you can get away with before getting “caught”.
Timing your mirroring has a lot to do with the subtlety of it. Usually you’ll want to wait 2-3 seconds before matching someone’s actions. Then, gradually close the time gap (pacing) until, eventually, you are leading and the other person is mirroring you. Once you notice them subconsciously mirroring you, then you will know rapport has been gained.
Here are some good, clear posts on mirroring:
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=97852408483677
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=97852408583680
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=97858890983788
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=97848089683604Q: “What is a ‘neg‘ or ‘neg hit‘ or ‘neg theory’?”
A: It’s an approach/attract theory from Mystery. A negative remark towards a girl designed to break her indifference to you by showing her that you are indifferent to her beauty (or other striking features). Not an insult, that would be bad. More like “Those are interesting nails – are they real?” or “It’s really cute how your nose wiggles when you talk – look, there it goes again! <chuckle>”. No more than 2 negs on an average HB (7-9/7-9), a maximum of 3 on a super HB (10/10). Negs are pretty much a necessity for 10s or strippers (whether they’re 10s or not – simply because they are in an environment which is condusive to them thinking they are 10s).
Negs to anything below an everage HB is generally BAD unless the chick is giving off vibes that she THINKS she is a 9/10.
Q: “What is the 3s (3 second) rule?”
Note: The “3s / 3 second” rule was originally coined by Mystery on ASF. A description is also available in the acronym page at http://www.fastseduction.com/acronyms.shtml.
A: FWIW, the 3S Rule is generally considered to be operant in almost all situations. IOW, it’s not the 3 Second Nightclub Rule, the 3 Second Bus Stop Rule, the 3 Second Street Rule, etc…
The 3S Rule is basically a guideline for making a decisive move on an HB Target, as soon as is practicable, and without hesitation. Hesitation is usually a sign of weakness, indecision, and lack of confidence. Since confidence is something that almost all women desire in, and find attractive about men, the rule is meant to serve as a principle of moving quickly to show strength, confidence and intent, and therefore attractiveness… Almost all AFCs will sit and watch a girl, wondering if they should approach, and eventually talking themselves out of making said approach. A PUA will not hesitate.
One other thing. This may seem contrary to the spirit of the 3S rule, but it is nonetheless a field-proven tenet: 3 seconds is only a guideline. Sometimes it takes more than three ticks to get to an HB, or to get in a position to do something that would require the rule to be in effect. So, it’s really a precept of approaches to do something ASAP, or risk losing stature in the eyes of some HB.
~Jack, ASF, 1999/11/12
Q: “How can I know if she likes me?”
A: Watch her body language». Listen to her responses to you. If/how she touches you. Her facial expressions. Is she twirling her hair? Licking her lips? Hips facing you? Complimenting you? Listening attently? Nodding her head in agreement with you? Leaning into you? Touching your arm or hands (anywhere) or your back? Starting to talk about sensual/sexual things? Eyebrows raised a bit? Eyes wide open? Smiling? Teeth when smiling? Head slightly tilted? Eyes and attention remains on you?
If you’ve got her number and have called her more than once to set up a date and she keeps cancelling or making excuses, she DOES NOT like you. That, or she’s doing “The Rules” (some chick guide book) and you probably don’t want to get with her anyway. If she never returns your calls, she DOES NOT like you. Note that this is not the same as you expecting her to call on her own without a request from you to call back. If you’ve spent a lot of time with her but have not sexed her and she dumps all her life shit on you, you have become her grilfriend and are in LJBF land. She might like you, but she won’t have sex with you. If you sense this coming and want to avoid it, shift gears. Do or say something unexpected. Start displaying more sexuality. Improve and intensify the kino. Lead her, don’t let her lead you.
Q: “How do I get a woman who is not interested, to go out with me?”
A: You can’t, but that’s obvious. She has to have some interest in you in order to “go out” with you so the real question should be “How do I get a woman interested in me so that she’ll want to go out with me?” The steps to doing that are all over this FAQ.
Q: “What do I do if she says she has a boyfriend?”
A: First of all, in your initial meeting with a woman, don’t go out of your way to ask if she has a boyfriend unless it is part of the conversation. Asking about it will give her the impression that you’re trying to get with her and your approach will lose some strength. A woman will introduce the boyfriend (real or not) into the conversation in 2 ways:
1. “I have a boyfriend.” This is usually given as a response to you asking her for something (“Can I have your number?”, “Let’s go out.”, “Let’s get to know each other better.”, etc.). If that is her first response, you have not done enough work to attract her or you have supplicated to her (asked her for something – her number, a date, whatever) and did not structure an opportunity for HER to get with YOU rather that YOU trying too hook up with HER. At this point, don’t give up (especially if you seem to be setting up some good rapport). Rather, regroup, refocus, and reframe the situation in your mind. Don’t make her boyfriend mention a big deal and simply keep building up your personality. Don’t TELL her you’re a super/great/awesome guy. SHOW her by your actions, your mannerisms, your confidence. Give her the subtle impression that whoever ger boyfriend is, he doesn’t have what you have. He can’t offer what you offer. Then, instead of supplicating to her again (asking for number, blah blah), structure an opportunity. If she doesn’t take the bait, move on.
2. “Yeah, blah blah, my boyfriend did that the other day. Blah blah.” A lot of the time when a woman mentions her boyfriend (real or not) in this way (as part of her conversation rather than as an excuse for not getting with you), she is doing 2 things. She is asserting her desireability and quality, and she is testing to see your reaction. Treat it as simply part of the conversation. Remember, just because a chick says she has a boyfriend does not mean he makes her happy, satisfies her, or is meaningful to her at all. Wommen CHOOSE to be with someone and they can CHOOSE to not be with that someone and be with you. Your job is to attract her, get her excited about you, then structure an opportunity for her to get with you.
Suggestion from Maniac High:
Maniac: I am pretty busy right now, so lets go to coffee and get to know each other a bit more.
Chick: I have a boyfriend.
Maniac: So what does that have to do with anything?.. I mean I didn’t ask him to coffee, I asked YOU. How about next Thursday?An important note: JUST because she says she has a boyfriend, does NOT mean that she is offering up resistance. She might have OTHER reasons for saying she has a boyfriend. Let’s review:
Reasons why chicks say they have a boyfriend:
1) Some women ALWAYS say they have a BF as a way of testing or prescreening a guy. She wants to see if he is weak or if he persists. She is determining if you are someone that she might want to spend time with.
2) She really has a BF and she is fulfilled/satisfied with that relationship.
3) She doesn’t have a BF, she’s just saying that because she’s not attracted to you. (NOTE: If she DOES have a BF, and she IS attracted to you, many times she will “forget” to mention him!)
4) She DOES have a BF, she IS willing to sleep with you; she just wants to make sure you understand her situation. She wants DISCRETION and UNDERSTANDING. And though she might be available to you for sex, she’s NOT available for a commitment.
5) She DOES have a BF, but doesn’t want to feel guilty about cheating on him. This is classic “chick logic” at work here and is good, because it means you are on your way to a fuck, even in spite of the BF… Basically this happens because she thinks that if she tells you about the BF now, she can relax and let you fuck her anyways, since its “not her fault now” that she fucked you, because, she *did* tell you about the boyfriend, and you ignored it, i.e. she “had no choice in the matter.”
6) She DOESN’T have a BF, she IS attracted to you, and she doesn’t want to look like a loser who can’t get a man. (Most HBs have many “orbiters” anyway.nice guys who hang out with her and want to sleep with her. Maybe sometimes they take her on dates or go shopping with her. Since the word “boyfriend” can have so many different meanings, she is thinking of one of her orbiters as a “place keeper” when she makes this statement.)
7) Sometimes she brings up her boyfriend and it is clear that she is only trying to convince herself.
8) She may or may not be attracted to you, and she had no reason at all for blurting out that she had a BF. Sometimes women get a little nervous or uncomfortable, and just blurt some bullshit out of their mouth for reasons they can’t even fathom. ALWAYS watch their responses before putting stock in their words!
~lovedrop, 2002/01/22, mASF
Q: “How do I get a woman’s phone number?”
A: Don’t ask her for it. Yes, this doesn’t sound right, does it? But the best way to get a number (a REAL number) is to not ask but rather structure an opportunity for her to get with you, after you’ve already done the work of fascinating, attracting, and seducing her. Once she is excited about you, she will fall over herself to give you her number once you’ve structured an opportunity for her. You can do that with some NLP negation (you: “Hm, I’ve got to go. It’s been nice talking with you. It’s too bad we won’t be able to have an interesting conversation like this again…” her: “Of course we can, here’s my number!”) or you can do it by asking her a to provide a suggestion as to how you could hook up again (you: “It’s been nice talking with you. Can you think of a way we can get together and do this another time?” her: “Sure, here’s my number!”).
Further: Often when structuring the opportunity she will say “Well, How about you give me your phone number”. The proper response to this is either to say “All right, lets go ahead and EXCHANGE numbers” and pull out your pen. Or else agree, write down your phone number, and then hand her a pen and paper … she will reciprocate. It is understood. Either way, you absolutely want her number. If she will not give it over, you have done something wrong. Don’t trust her to call you, it wont happen.
~toecutter, 2001/01/17
Also, here is something to think about: Don’t bother getting a woman’s number if you can fuck her in the next hour. Get the number after. Or, if you can’t fuck her but can immediately set up a coffee meeting nearby, go for that. Remember, the purpose of getting a number is to get with her. If you know for sure you can get with her in the next hour, why bother with the number?
Further: the above is a good rule to live by, but remember that getting a number is an intermediate close. When you have the number, it is locked into her mind that it is an ongoing relationship, you can still get her home or go for the coffee after getting the number if you structure it properly (like you would with a male friend, i.e. you need his number because you have to call him for something.) It is never too early to get a number.
~toecutter, 2001/01/17
Q: “What do I do or say if when I ask a women for her number, she says ‘Why don’t you give me YOUR number?’ in a way that she is giving me a hard time to get her number or outright refusing to give it?”
A: See previous question fo a possible answer. This is almost as bad as getting the “I have a boyfriend.” response. Same as that situation, it means you have not done enough work to attract her or you have supplicated to her (asked her for something – her number, a date, whatever) and did not structure an opportunity for HER to get with YOU rather that YOU trying too hook up with HER.
If you think you’ve built up some good rapport but if she insists on getting your number rather than you getting hers, reframe it for her and say “I don’t give my number out because I find that some women just collect the numbers as some sort of game – comparing their pile their girl friends’. I don’t play those games.” If necessary, add that you keep a hactic schedule and if she’s the one doing the calling then she’ll probably establish a lasting relationship with your answering machine. However, if you get her number, you’ll be able to call her when you have the time to talk.
If she still resists, offer to trade numbers OR get her e-mail address (or trade) instead (these days, it’s almost as good – sometimes better depending on the chick).
You may find that none of the above works to your liking. If you still have time (still have her attention) at this point, don’t give up (especially if you seem to be setting up some good rapport). Rather, regroup, refocus, and reframe the situation in your mind. Don’t make what she said a big deal and simply keep building up your personality. Don’t TELL her you’re a super/great/awesome guy. SHOW her by your actions, your mannerisms, your confidence. Give her the subtle impression that other men don’t have what you have. They can’t offer what you offer. Then, instead of supplicating to her again (asking for number, blah blah), structure an opportunity for her to give you hers. If she doesn’t take the bait, move on.
Suggestion from Maniac High:
Maniac: Naw, I can’t do that because you see, I know you won’t call me.. 😉 you will take the #, then show it to your friends and giggle together while passing around all the numbers you collected to each other ;-). Wont you? 😉 See, I know what ladies are like! 😉 So that is why I dont give #s to ladies who won’t give me theirs. So if we both want the chance to meet again again, you can give me yours, or if that is not OK, we can exchange #s with each other.. [said in a firm, but humourous tone with a smile]Q: “How do I know the phone number she gave me is legit?”
A: Uhhh… call it? Seriously, though, here are some useful tips:
If she gives you her number verbally for you to write, wait a few seconds after you’ve written it down and then ask her to repeat it to make sure you’ve “written it down right”. If the numbers don’t match, she’s spewing a garbage number at you. Call her on her BS. Best case, she is impressed by your backbone, apologizes, and gives you her real number. Worst case, you show a woman that you have a spine and don’t let women walk all over you.
If she writes the number down herself, wait til she hands you the number then pretend you can’t read it and ask her to repeat the number to you verbally. If the numbers don’t match, she’s spewing a garbage number at you. Use the same advice as above.
Rather than calling her on her BS right away, make it seem like you’re onto her game without getting pissed and simply play along with it and keep building rapport. Turn it around so that she starts actually wanting to give you her real number and then, before you go, give her the indication that you will call her to hook up later. Then laugh and say “Unless, of course, the number you gave me was BS…”. Pause. Giver her a chance to humiliate herself by admitting the previous number was false and handing you her real number. Worst case? You’re no better off than before and she gives you another bogus number. Best case? You’ve given her a second chance (how great of you… what a man) to get with you and you can reassure her that you’re not a typical guy and you understand why she might feel the need to give out bogus numbers.
Q: “After getting a woman’s phone number, when should I call, what should I say, how do I set up a date?”
A: Before dealing with phone numbers, here is something to think about: Don’t bother getting a woman’s number if you can fuck her in the next hour. Get the number after. Or, if you can’t fuck her but can immediately set up a coffee meeting nearby, go for that. Remember, the purpose of getting a number is to get with her. If you know for sure you can get with her in the next hour, why bother with the number?
OK, now that specific knowledge is out of the way, when do you first call and how to set up a date? Don’t call too damn soon (same day). That’s just sad and desperate. Deciding when to call after that day should be based on how much you think she’s already interested and how attracted to you she was when you left her. if she seemed VERY interested, it is probably OK to call the next day (at least 24-36 hours after fist meeting) and your SOLE goal is to set up a time & place. A first meeting should NOT be a “date” but rather meeting her for coffee or drinks somewhere. There is no need to fluff over the phone. If she seemed interested but was not already hot for you, a couple days is good. You may need to re-build her interest when she talks to you on the phone. You have to be congruent with what you were like when she first met you. That means if you were an amazing flirt when you first met, you should be a bit flirtatious over the phone. But just enough to leave her wanting more and then set up a time/place to meet. Finally, get off the phone before she does. Just say “OK, great, I have to go now – I’ll see you later. Bye. <click>”
If when trying to set up a meeting, she seems to begin to initiate the “flakeout” routine (“Oh, can I call you back – what’s your #? I’m not sure when I’m available… blah blah blah”) just tell her that you called to set up a meeting and if you can’t get her to agree to anything NOW then maybe it’s not worth getting together AT ALL. Set up your rules for her. Make sure she knows you don’t take BS from anyone. Doesn’t matter what her excuse is, don’t believe it. Women will say, and have said everything under the sun as an excuse to flake out. “I’m flossing my cat.”, “My roommate needs help building a bomb.”, “My landlord is coloring my hair to match the drapes…” whatever… just realize that whatever they say other than “OK, let’s meet at X at X time” is a flakeout and it’s your job to not take her BS, give her your rules, and then let her decide what she wants to do. If she wants to LOSE the opportunity to spend time with you, that’s HER choice. However, if she’s smart she will commit to something before you hang up.
Further: There is two schools of thought on this one. First up, the probability of the # not blurring is much higher if you give her some rules when you hand over your number in the exchange, and rule # 1 is that when you call or if she calls you you will say just as she has to say “Hi, <PUA name>, I am so glad you called, I was just thinking about you.” This works well because it sets the frame for the rest of the conversation, and if she lives up to the rule, then you know you can be short and sweet as above.
She doesn’t follow the rule, and you have a possible blur on your hands. Treat these as if they are fresh approaches. It is going to take a good 15 minutes to get it back. Fluff, pattern, entertain. Anchour it on your voice. Move it towards phone sex. See David Shade’s post: “Re: Seducing Girls/Women on AOL (was Need Help/Advice and Fast!!!)” available at http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=482977842
~toecutter, 2001/01/17
Q: “What’s a good message to leave on my answering machine?”
A: “Hi, I’m not here to pick up the phone so leave your name and number so I can get back to you later.”
Q: “What do I do If I get her answering machine?”
A: Hang up. Unless you have a STRONG reason to believe that she will definitely return your call in the next half hour, or unless you have something EXTRAORDINARY to tell her, don’t leave any messages. And, if nobody has ever told you before, call-blocking is your friend. You must make the assumption that every woman you will ever call has Caller ID and screens her calls. Most areas in the US, dialing *67 before making a call enables call blocking on your phone number (it won’t show up on a Caller ID device). Some phone companies let you place a permanent block on your phone number.
Further: The telcos are now offering a service where if you *67 it, the call goes straight to voice mail. Also, if you can not get onto her, and the # is starting to go stale (about a week old), then it is time to leave a message, and the right sort of message to leave (with tonality working for you) is: “Hi this is <PUA name> from <place where you met> last <Monday>, my number is <phone number>. It is a pity I missed you. I was speaking to someone about you the other day and they said that you ..” <click, you hang-up mid sentence>. If that doesn’t get a return phone call, nothing would have. (on the return phone call say the person said that she had beautiful eyes, say you agree and transition into an eyes pattern). If she doesn’t call you can go back to your *67 trying to get her.
~toecutter, 2001/01/17
Q: “What do I do if she gives me a beeper number instead of her phone number or e-mail address?”
A: Drop her.
Q: “Where should I meet or take her when setting up a second meeting (after a number close)?”
A: If she already seems hot and horny for you, then by all means invite her to your place (for whatever…do whatever you like to do like watch a movie, cook dinner, show her your pictures from your last trip to TimBucktu). Otherwise, you’ll want to set up a more casual, non-intimidating meeting place where she will feel comfortable and safe. That means a public place, but also one that is condusive to to your seduction. Also, try to avoid the weekends and go for something more in the line of meeting at a cafe on the weekdays (afternoon or early evening). This will minimize the impact of “date” expectations and you will both be more at ease. Doing this also saves you from big expenses, especially if you do a lot of PUs. Generally, you want to think of this event as a second opportunity to screen her and to let her get a better appreciation of you. If it doesn’t work out, you haven’t lost anything. Otherwise, you can confidently move onto the next step which is to set up a more significant meeting or take her home right away if you manage to really do a good job seducing her.
Q: “Who pays? Should I pay? When should I pay? When should I not pay?”
A: The default rule (for PUAs) is to not pay for anything except yourself. “No play, no pay.” However, this rule can (and should) be superseded by whatever the circumstance entails but not to the extent that you are going out of your way to impress or supplicate to her.
### For newbie AFCs ###
Not paying for chicks is SECONDARY. The main thing is to seduce them with your mental game and this “rule” about paying is just to prevent you from doing what that that guy from the article “How not to PU” on Maniac’s site did (see http://www.pickupguide.com/badpu1.htm). You DON’T pay for trips to Paris and you DON’T buy them clothes and jewelry! As for coffee, it’s too insignificant an expense to risk putting her in a bad state from which AFC newbies can’t pull her from.
Our “rules” are in the function of seducing woman fast. They’re not designed for saving you money, nor for showing the bitches who’s the king.
When you tell a chick “I expect you to pay that.”, she’ll start thinking. What’s she going to think? That it’s a good thing you’re making her pay for her own? Not likely. That it doesn’t matter? Possible. That it’s a BAD thing? Most probably she will experience a moment of discomfort and insecurity.
Not that the chick is a gold digger, it’s simply a bad state breaker. She’s going to think about (even for 5 seconds) why you won’t pay for her coffee…
“Is he telling me he doesn’t like me?”
“Is he too poor to afford coffee?”
“Is he a cheap skate?”
Now, I can pull her out of that state. So can NYC, Maniac, and other PUAs, they can BOUNCE the chick around like a basketball and still get pussy. How about some newbie? What is he going to think when he says that after the “date” rapport went to hell and the chick complained she was tired or whatever? What went wrong? So, the primary advice to newbies is: not paying for chicks is secondary to seducing them. Once you get good at attracting and seducing them, the understanding about “who should pay” rules comes naturally.~thx, 2001/01/20 (paraphrased)
Still don’t get it? Want this point explained in-depth, along with the basic reasoning behind the importance of such a topic? Then read the following archived post from toecutter:
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=98021840287277
### For AFCs/RAFCs miscellaneous situations ###
Co-workers having coffee: It is the expected that each person pay for their own drink.
Co-workers having drinks: It is the expected that each person pay for their own drink. Or to take turns buying drinks.
New HB + you having coffee: Play it by ear, but expect to pay. No big deal. Coffe & a snack is usually only a few dollars.
New HB + you having drinks: Play it by ear, but expect to pay the first round. Let her pay the second, thjen play it by ear from there.
First date: PUAs don’t “date” girls they aren’t already fucking.One way to diffuse a situation where you are paying for a first coffee meeting, especially if the subject comes up, just be playful and say “I’ll get it this time, you can get it next time.”
### For PUAs in miscellaneous situations ###
Well, PUAs already know the score on this…
Q: “How do I get a woman (or women) to come back to my place the same day I meet her/them?”
A: Give her an excuse to go to your place. You want to show her the photos <of what ever you were talking about> / play her some music / have a drink (alcohol especially after closing time) / forgot your coat / haven’t eaten, and you only have a stomach for <certain food that you have in your fridge> / play with your leggo set, whatever.
~toecutter, 2001/01/17
Q: “How do I get a woman (or women) to come back to my place after we’ve gotten together one or more times?”
A: See the answer to the previous related question. Invite to see a video, cook her dinner, etc. (cooking her dinner under these circumstances is not AFC, it is organizing a meeting on your turf … get candles burning [that burn at different speeds so the room gets darker as the night goes on]. You choose the music, the food [texture baby all the way], etc.)
~toecutter, 2001/01/17
Q: “How do I treat or deal with a woman who doesn’t call back or cancels dates?”
A: It’s probably too late. You didn’t provide her with your rules up front. You probably also did not do enough to attract her.
There are some things you can do to set you up to rebound the situation. Toecutter has posted some good info about this, available at:
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=97145728771417
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=97147891971454
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=97158687871632Q: “How can I avoid a woman telling me ‘Let’s just be friends.’?”
A: Don’t ever supplicate to her. Don’t put her on a pedestal. Don’t become her doormat. Don’t try to be her girlfriend. Don’t become her girlfirend. Don’t act asexual. Always understand that when first meeting a woman, you must make sure the impression you give is not one of “nice guy doormat” but rather “strong, dominent, confident, secure man”. Then make sure to make your SOI known (either directly or through sub-text) and be sure to excite her imagination about you. Then turn the table around on her and make sure she gets the impression that you are screening her to be with you rather than the other way around.
Q: “How do I turn a ‘friend’ into a ‘lover’, how can I get out of LJBF (‘Let’s Just Be Friends’) land, or I’ve just been LJBF’d – what do I do?”
A: Once in LJBF land with a particular woman, it’s almost impossible to get out. Rather, you should consider using the LJBF to your advantage. Hang out with this woman and have her around when you’re out clubbing, bar-hopping, at a restaurant, wherever. Completely accept the fact that you’ll never sleep with this woman and simply use her as “social proof” when attracting other women. Other women will see you as more attractive and desirable if they see you with another woman. The better looking your LJBF girl, the better for you. In fact, you may even want to introduce the idea of “winging” with this LJBF woman directly to her: she can help you attract other women while you help her attract other men. If, however, you’re still adamant about seducing an LJBF woman, read the next Q&A.
Q: “What does ‘elicit values’ mean? How does one elicit values?”
A: Some guys call this screening but it’s also used to get things from her like mirror and trance words. While in conversation with a women, you need to ask her questions which lead to her end values and specific trance words. That will help you lead the conversation by mirroring back those values and words to her and will also help you determine if she even qualifies to spend time with you. For example, you don’t simply want to ask “What do you like to do for fun?” and then leave her answer at that. You want to take her anser and dig deeper.
Don’t know how that works? Watch Jay Leno or David Letterman when they’re interviewing someone. You want to keep asking more and more deeper questions until you finally get to her value structure and the specific words that her mind hinges on. Furthering the example, she says “I like to go fishing with my family.” and then you ask “What specifically you find the most enjoyable about that?” She might say “Every time my family does it, we have a great time, and laugh a lot.” You ask “So you like to laugh with your family?” She says “Yeah, it’s a great way to escape and laugh and let go.” You say “Yeah, it is great to laugh with your family – my family is like that. Are you able to escape and let go in other ways in your life?” She says “Yeah, I like to go to the wharf for lunch and watch the birds, it’s a great way to escape in the middle of the day.”
So now after that brief convo, you’ve established that she likes her familiy, she likes to laugh and have fun, her familiy is fun, she likes the water, and enjoys escaping her days by doing something relaxing. You’ve also got some trance words and phrases: “great (time)” “escape” “let go”. If you take those values of hers and feed them back within your own stories and also emphasise her trance words, you will gain faster and stronger rapport with her and will more easily be able to capture and lead her imagination, lead her state.
Q: “What is the ‘bitch shield‘? How do I bypass it?”
A: The bitch shield is a natural reaction the really hot chicks (specifically 9s, especially 10s, and usually strippers/dancers) build up. It’s perfectly understandable for her to brush off the guys who approach. If she’s in a crowded club or bar, she has dozens of guys a night coming up and kissing her ass, buying her drinks, telling her she’s beautiful. She knows she’s beautiful. She’s been told that so many times it’s as true as saying “the sky is blue”. She can’t sleep with, or even have time to get to know all the guys that come onto her — there aren’t enough hours in the day, even if she was madly attracted to every single one of them. So she’s become good at brushing guys off. She assumes (rightly so) that every guy that talks to her would give his right arm to fuck her. She’s probably dying to be swept off her feet, but there’s no challenge. It’s like playing Quake on God mode. Its fun at first, but quickly gets boring.
The way to bypass this is a neg hit. A neg is a neutral comment. Its not an insult, merely a way of demonstrating that you aren’t impressed (or intimidated) by her beauty. Some examples: “That’s so cute, your nose wiggles when you talk”, “I love your hair, is it dyed?”, “Your nails look great. Are they real?” For the last two, if the hair/nails are dyed/fake, follow up with “oh… well, they look nice.”
You aren’t kissing her ass, in fact you might have noticed something wrong with her perfect form. You might not even want to fuck her! This confuses the hell out of her, and gets her interested in you. What’s up with this guy? Why isn’t he telling me I look like an angel and buying me drinks like all the other guys (AFCs) do? For a 10, Mystery recommends 3 negs to bring the shield all the way down. Once its down, you can talk to her like a human being, rather than a peasant worshipping his goddess.
Note: These are NOT to be used on chicks without a bitch shield. Doing so will destroy her self esteem.
~maddman75, 2000/11/25
Special note on 10s and how they view their world when it comes to meeting men: coming soon.
Q: “What is supplication?”
A: Supplication is offering to do something for an HB, while expecting something from her, such as more time to spend with her, sex, or any other favor. If you do something for an HB, expecting anything in return, or in the hopes of showing her that you are a nice guy that will do things for her, hoping that she will spend more time with you, you are supplicating. Supplication is also considered to include gifts, dinners, drinks, flowers, or any other token meant to buy your way into her good graces. If you wouldn’t do it for no reason for a male friend, then it is probably supplication.
~Jack 2000/11/17
Suggestion from Maniac High:
Supplication is offering to do something for a chick that you would NOT do for a guy friend, or an UG (buying jewelery, doing ‘extra’ favors, doing her homework for her, etc).A: Neuro-Linguistic Programming. Its a branch of psychology that involves the use of everyday language to induce emotional states into the person you are talking to. It uses ambiguities, descriptive words, and subtle mispronunciations to create different emotional states. It forms the basis for Ross Jeffries’ Speed Seduction coursework and seminars (see below) and is a powerful seduction tool.
Some people will initially balk at using NLP to seduce, but after you learn a bit about it you learn to recognize it in other situations. It’s used to get candidates into office, convert people’s religion, sell products, and start wars. Using it to get a little ass seems almost benign, doesn’t it?
~maddman75, 2000/11/25
Q: “What is an ‘alpha male»‘?”
A: Among most primate tribes, there are two types of males. Most of the pack are beta males. They have no real power, and mate infrequently. The most dominate male is the alpha. He mates with all the females, whenever he wants. He is the leader of the pack. The other apes flock to him, even the beta males.
Humans share some of the same behavior. I’m sure you knew a guy like this in high school. Coolest guy around. Did whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. More girls than he could handle. Relaxed, comfortable, confident, in control. That is the alpha male», and its who you need to be to be a PUA.
– Never apologize for your desires
– Never worry about consequences
– Show no fear of talking to people you don’t know
– Know that you are the prize
– Say and do what others wish they had the balls to say and do~maddman75, 2000/11/25
Note: The term “alpha male»” has been used most predominantly in the sciences when referring to wolf packs.
Set it up by giving her something she wants, something that makes her feel good, fascinated…ect… (not money or gifts!) When you sense her anticipation then you take it away.
example: You just read her a poem. She asks for more. You say, oh sorry we’ll have to do it tommorrow I have to get to class now.
It’s simaliar to what a dick tease would do.
~whoisthis19 (greg), 2001/1/10
Q: “What is seduction?”
A: The classical definition of seduction is a means of communication (verbal or physical) which leads a woman to have strong desires to have sex with the man who is seducing her. The ASf definition of seduction is any reasonable method which provides a man with the ability to consistently get women that he wants to want to have sex with him. The trick to being a good seductionist is not being able to use a specific general technique or method and do it perfectly but rather to find what works best fot you and practice, practice, practice. Go out into the field and try new things. Find out what works for you. Use the techiques guys post about as a basis to try new things, not as something you repeat like a robot.
Q: “Where and how do I start using all this new knowledge?”
A: Everywhere! Try not to let any opportunity slip by. Remember anytime you go anywhere and do anything you could have an opportunity to meet an HB. For sarging, try the local malls, book stores, coffee shops, bars, clubs, or anywhere else you can find a gathering of people.
How? – here’s Mystery’s formula: Find, Meet, Attract, Close. Start wherever you are lacking. If you have no problem starting a conversation, work on Attract, study eliciting values, storytelling, mirroring, etc. If talking to strangers (esp. women) makes you nervous, work on Meet. Go out to the local mall, say hi and smile to women until this doesn’t bother you any more. Just start – experience will give you your baseline and let you know where you need work.
~maddman75, 2000/11/25
Q: “How do I ask her if she has a STD (Sexually Transmitted Disease)?”
A: If it’s a concern to you, bring it up before having sex with her. Some women simply aren’t honest about it (due to fear, embarrassment, or something else) and you should always wear a condom (duh). Here is a web site about STDs:
Q: “How can I date more than 1 woman at a time?”
A: If you are thinking ONS types or multiple FBs, it doesn’t take much other than your time and how much of it you’re willing to give up. If you’re asking how to maintain multiple LTRs (MLTR) without pissing any of those women off, the best answer is straightforard honesty. All the women in your MLTR should be accepting of the fact that you spend your time (and emotions) with other women while you are also seeing them. But you also have to be OK with the women in you MLRT being just as free with their relationships. If you are an MLTR man, or want to be, you have to expect your women will want the same freedom. You should also expect that “cheating” in those circumstances is a nonexistent issue because there was honesty up front. If you want to include a woman in your MLTR but she doesn’t like the idea and wants a monogamous relationship with you then you really can’t give her what she wants and probably should not establish a relationship unless you’re willing to lie to her and “cheat” in the relationship. And that’s not a very good relationship, is it?
You may want to also check out the follwoing site:
Q: “Are there any regular posters on ASF that I should pay attention to more than others?”
A: Some don’t post as often as others, but here is a list to start with: Maniac / Maniac High, Mystery / the_master / Stepleader, Svengali, Nathan Szilard, MrSex4uNYC, Rio, toecutter, whoisthis19, Nightlight9, Jack “Jetman” (John C. Ryan), ALPHAHOT1, ErosLA77 / Ross Jeffries, David Shade, Dan Scorpio, Lovedrop, Treeland_AZ, TokyoPUA, Juggler.
There are others I’ve probably missed. This is just a starting point.
Q: “Are there any regular posters on ASF that I should try to ignore?”
A: Just lurk on the group for a while and make that decision for yourself. An list of suggested killfilters can be found at http://www.fastseduction.com/filters.shtml
Q: “I have a question about SS (Speed Seduction). Where should I go?”
Q: “What are some highly recommended books I should read?”
A: An organized list of useful books mentioned on ASF is available at http://www.fastseduction.com/books.shtml. Doing a few searches at http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi should also yield some useful recommendations.
Q: “I’ve seen ads for penis enlargement products. Is it really possible to enlarge my penis?”
A: That’s an off-topic medical question. By the time the size of your dick is apparent to a chick, you should have already seduced her. But if you’re adament about trying to increase your dick size, the most common methods are using “pumps” and getting surgery. You can find more info at http://ask.com/main/askjeeves.asp?ask=penis+enlargement and http://www.google.com/search?q=penis+enlargement
Any questions not covered by this FAQ can be researched by using the ASF searchable archive at http://www.fastseduction.com/, or by lurking on the ASF newsgroup for at least a couple of weeks. There is also a free web forum, the PUSHboard (Pick-up University Study Hall) available at http://www.fastseduction.com/ which is a retro-moderated board (no spam, no piles of useless posts).
Speed Seduction FAQ>back to top
The Speed Seduction» FAQ can be found at:
Contact/Credit Information >back to top
You can contact any of the above e-mail addresses regarding any element of this FAQ (please include the words “ASF FAQ question” in the subject of your e-mail) or general information contained on this page. For information about the Fast Seduction 101 web site, please contact [email protected] but first please review our Terms & Conditions of Use disclaimer for that site.
Except for quoted elements explicitly noted as being credited to another entity, this work is Copyright©1999-2001 by the authors, (primarily) [email protected], and (partially) man***h@pi***.com[ ? ] in conjunction with the fastseduction.com web site and is made available as a service to the Internet community. All Rights Reserved. Reproduction or sale of material appearing in this document, in whole or in part, in any medium, including electronic, CD-ROM, or database, packaged with any commercial product, or published in print, is forbidden without prior permission from at least two of the authors or written permission of fastseduction.com.
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