mASF post by "Jestor"
posted on: mASF forum: General Discussion newsgroup, October 10, 2004Going through the MrSex4uNYC archive I assembled the very best information on
LSE chicks.
* * *
subject: Re: NYC: LSE tactics
EXCELLENT post zorgai :) bravo!!!
I do not know enough about any of the technical stuff you were posting to know
whether you are on-point or not about the actual facts, but the way you have
explained LSE chicks makes total sense to me and gives me MUCH new insight into
this situation.
thank you :)
>Please make an important distinction, the VRP is a way of describing
>the process, it is not what is really happening inside the chick's
>mind. She is not consciously "playing a game". She simply feels like
>she is shit, and there are a number of ways to respond to that feeling.
I noticed this in the earlier posts. while it is true that you DEFINITELY
might want to call a chick on her bullshit if she KNOWS she is playing games
with you, calling her on it if she DOESN'T know will NOT have the desired
effect at all.
>If you try to cheer her
>up, you will be putting effort in her, and her emotions will tell her
>that if you put effort in shit like her, you must be shit too. She will
>then regard you differently, and treat you accordingly.
this is an even deeper level of what happened to me than nadeshiko posted. not
only was I torn down for COMPLIMENTING her and physically demonstrating my
AFFECTION for her, but I was torn down even for taking INTEREST in her
situation and CARING about her enough to want to help her out. fascinating.
>Ofcourse if you don't show interest in her, she will either try harder
>to get you to respond to her(to get rid of the bad feeling of being
>ignored) or stop talking to you (b/c she thinks you are one of
>the "cool people" and way above her head).
right :) fascinating. find ways to be around her without being INTERESTED in
her IN ANY FASHION. don't IGNORE her because she DEFINITELY will fade into the
background and out of sight. keep her in your grasp, but at arm's length
always. you are making NO STRIDES in your "relationship" to her. she is who
she is and you are who you are and there is no overlap or COMPARISON between
the two of you. keep her around for a reason, but NOT the traditonal reasons
of "you look good" or "I want to have sex with you". keep her around, for
instance because you find her antics fascinating, sort of like a flea circus :)
or perhaps because you find her so pathetic that you get cheered up just
REMEMBERING that you are not her.
>The best way to deal with these people is
>to take charge, in the way a pimp would deal with one of his bitches.
>Patronise her when you talk to her, and take a lot of opportunities to
>ignore her.
ok. take charge of her... because... you FEEL LIKE IT. no other reason. you
are not fucking her because you like her body. you are not taking her places
with you because you think she is cute. you are investing NOTHING in her and
you are merely USING HER because that is what she is for... to be USED!
SHIT man... this shit is SPOT-ON. as soon as I first moved on the chick, she
told me I was going to fuck her and dump her. I have known for a while that
she feels like that is all she deserved. I really never considered it a way of
relating to someone before just now. shit. thanks :/ if I had "fucked her
and dumped her" like she expected, I could have done it all the time. then
again, that is NOT the relationship I wanted with her, so in her PARTICULAR
case, it wouldn't have been useful.
now I am thinking about my basic "caveman kino" sarges that I always do. the
thing is that I NEVER talk to them about what I am doing... I JUST DO IT! they
can make up their own reasons WHY I am doing what I do. I have probably gotten
MANY chicks BECAUSE I never told them I liked them... I just TOOK them. it was
obvious from my actions that I was sexually attracted to them, but the REASONS
WHY were vague to them! I am POSITIVE, thinking about some of the chicks that
I fucked that the reason they THOUGHT I was all over them was that I was USING
them, which was CONGRUENT with what they thought about themselves, so they got
into it and went with it. they had their own fantasies of me using them in
their minds and I was merely fucking another chick that I found attractive.
a former wing of mine SPECIALIZED in LSE chicks. he would act like they were
his PROPERTY as soon as he started interacting with them. I used to wonder HOW
he could get away with this shit with some FINE chicks. I figured out
eventually that it was THEM, not HIM that was the important factor, but now I
see why. they are walking around WAITING FOR and EXPECTING someone to USE
THEM! when he naturally dominated them in his "I don't give a fuck about you,
come over here" fashion, they were RIGHT IN THEIR ELEMENT and got in line and
did whatever he wanted them to do. if they disobeyed, he would throw them away
(ignoring them) and they would beg and plead for another chance to get in line
and be his bitch. fuckin fascinating!
as far as pimps, like you mentioned, it is the same dynamic. they can only
pimp women with LSE or else the chicks would keep the money for themselves. it
is a totally DIFFERENT way of relating to chicks that I accidentally
capitalized on because of my "I don't give a fuck about you bitches" nature. I
am not as extreme as my former wing, but chicks can tell that they can get
no-strings-attached sex from me, and that is why I thought it was so easy for
me to get ONS. I never considered that some chicks INTERPRET my not caring
about them or even liking them as my being someone that would USE THEM like the
GARBAGE that they are.
I am going to seriously consider this and test it out on some LSE chicks.
>If you want to help someone with LSE, know that this can't be done by
>any other means than changing her thought patterns. The only possible
>way is to be patronising and explain her thouroughly what her problem
>is, and how she can help herself. If it catches on, she might change.
ok. I see what you mean. not call them on their shit, but announce to them
what it is that they do to themselves and if she is strong enough, she will
make it out. if she is weak, she will remain AS-IS. you have to remain
patronizing as you do it because if you are loving or caring about it, you fall
off the tightrope that you are walking of neglecting her, like she feels she
deserves.
>Since LSE individuals' self-
>images aren't very well defined, a compliment about something they are
>insecure about, makes them feel insecure.
I don't get this... could you expand on this? it seems like you are saying
that besides not complimenting them because they will use it against you, you
shouldn't compliment them because if they don't think they look good and you
tell them they do... never mind. I figured it out. fuck! the SAME SHIT
happened to me with my LSE chick! shit. she walked up to me and my wing and I
told her that we had been talking about her and that she was looking good
today, and she said "yeah, right" but now that I think about it, she had a
dreading look in her eye as if she was thinking that we were REALLY saying how
FUCKED UP she looked, and we just weren't telling her. she became VERY
self-conscious about her looks AS IF we had told her she looked bad. fuck.
fascinating.
>Their self-perception also
>changes by the day, and something which might boost their esteem today,
>might be an attack on their self-image the next day.
right. she fluctuated from being OK about her looks to VERY NEGATIVE about her
looks. she would hate herself, but then when I would tell her how her
boyfriend must be cheating on her, she would PROUDLY talk about the other guys
that she got to fuck her. it was really strange. sometimes, she would walk
with PRIDE and sometimes she would slouch.
>This works well for
>HSE individuals b/c they have their environment set up for self-
>affirmation. LSE individuals might not benefit from this much.
that was clear that she had NO self-esteem and that the only thing she had that
made her feel worthwhile was her job, because she got to prove herself daily...
which is more EXTERNAL validation... she has NOTHING inside.
great post zorgai. just what I needed to figure out much more of what I did
wrong (though it wasn't my afult because I didn't KNOW any of this shit) with
my LSE chick and what I need to construct my new LSE style. I will go over
this and over this until I internalize it because the reasons for being certain
ways are very important. this is totally a way of relating to someone who
CAN'T relate to people any other way.
just off the top of my head, I think it will call for a mix of apathy (which I
can do great), ignoring opportunities to compliment her, taking charge of her
(which I can do, but would not have done because she would have failed the
screen), and if I was interested in her progressing as a human being, talking
DOWN to her and letting her know what her problem is. if I call her, it is not
to ASK her anything, but to TELL HER what I want her to do. she can either
comply or be ignored. it is not to invite her out to have a good time with me,
it is to serve her purpose to me as I have defined it for her.
fascinating :)
* * *
>Consciously playing around with people requires a good level of
>self-esteem (you must view yourself as superior to the average joe, or
>at least to the people you are gonna play with) and this is obviously
>not the case for LSE people.
I think everyone here knows I have a SERIOUS superiority complex :)
>If you tell her you think she is trying to
>play with you, you are essentially saying that you had the impression
>that she felt superior to you - which means that you just put yourself
>BELOW her, effectively qualifying yourself as less than the shit she
>is.
here we go again! another excellent post. I ran into this problem by ASKING
her to go places with me instead of either COMMANDING her to do it
(successfully or not) or telling her what I was going to do and not caring if
she shows up or not. by giving her power of CHOICE, I was telling her that she
was my equal and that made me equal to SHIT! :)
>The only way you can "care" about an LSE (if you would want to do that)
>is in a superior, patronising way. If you give the impression to relate
>to her in an equal way (or worse, in an inferior way), you are dragged
>down to her level or below, in her eyes.
the question is WOULD I really want to do that? I like strong-minded chicks
because they are more challenging AND tougher for the average joe to get his
hands on than a weak-minded chick. the reason I wanted this one was because
even though she was FUCKED UP in many ways, she was very compatible with me...
some of the ways that we were the same were in the FUCKED UP categories as well
:) she was still a better candidate for ME for MLTR than a really fine, HSE
chick that didn't have the personality traits that I require.
>I'd put it like this: be around an LSE without interfering with the
>image that you are a high-class person and she is a low-class person.
sweet. this sums it up for me. my new style will simply be "HiLo". I will be
the high-class person and she will be the low-class person.
thanks :)
>this also explains the jerks-over-nice guys syndrome ; by
>not descending into equality or inferiority, the jerk will be one of
>the few people that fulfills the chick's perception of a high-class
>person, in comparison to whatever status she attributes herself in the
>hierarchy of people
wow. you're right. again, many times I got the chick because I never did SAY
much to them, just get physical with them and take it from there. jerks are
VERY condescending, and for the most part dominate the situation.
>> ok. take charge of her... because... you FEEL LIKE IT.
>
>because... that is what high-class people do with low-class people. (if
>you don't dare to push her around...maybe you are shit afterall, she
>feels)
right. ok. I ran into this with this ex-pivot of mine. since I normally
treat chicks DECENTLY, I did the same to her. during the time that I was
treating her that way, she would make little cutting remarks to me attempting
to demean me. the reason this was acceptable was that she was a pivot,
therefore nothing she said about me mattered because she was merely
eye-candy... BAIT for hot bitches. eventually, because of her attitude, she
became a DRAG to hang out with. when that happened, I no longer cared about
ANYTHING having to do with her. she dropped down the list out of her position
of being my main pivot. I stopped calling her to go out as much as I had.
when I was with her, I would BARELY touch her at all... even saying hello and
goodbye. I REALLY didn't care about her AT ALL. all of a sudden, all the
little snipes CEASED and she would look at me with different eyes. because I
took myself ABOVE her level (which was natural because I always WAS above her
level, I was just pretending to be on her level to make her more comfortable
associating with me as my pivot), she SUDDENLY became interested in me. I
suddenly became WORTHY of her because I would never accept her. she could FEEL
the disdain that I had for her, and she was naturally reacting to it. it is
obvious to me now, but only because you have pointed it out. I am
high-class... I do whatever I want. she is low-class... I will not associate
with her UNTIL I CHOOSE TO, and even then, she is only with me to serve a
purpose. she is there to be USED by me and then ignored. fuck her. I have
other nobodies to do my bidding. :)
>> I fucked that the reason they THOUGHT I was all over them was that I
>was USING
>> them, which was CONGRUENT with what they thought about themselves, so
>they got
>> into it and went with it.
>
>Yes, it was congruent with the way they thought a desirable, higher-
>class person would relate to them.
in a way, it was true, by a sort of circle. because chicks warm up to me VERY
quickly, I have lots of internal examples of this. since I carry these
examples with me all day, I ASSUME that all chicks that are interested in me
will be as fast as, say the AVERAGE chick that has been interested in me.
don't bother asking me what that speed is because I don't have a clue. when I
approach a chick and she is accepting me and looking at me like she is
interested, I am ready to escalate IMMEDIATELY. I do so with confidence
because I have done the same thing so many times and chicks have enjoyed it.
PLUS I know what I'm doing with a chick so I know I am going to turn her on
and get her hot pretty quickly. because there are so many AFCs that approach
these chicks and date them several times before trying to kiss them etc etc,
they are shocked when I am all over them the very first time I meet them. no
dates, no numbers, no nothing. they assume since I am so fast and I know what
I am doing that I have LOTS of experience with chicks (which I do) and that I
am going to take them or leave to do the same thing to another chick as fast as
I did it to them. this is interpteted by them as high-class behavior, and they
become submissive to me and let me do my thing so they can reap the benefits of
my attentions. every time this happens, it becomes another example of fast
chicks which reinforces my belief that the next one will be just as fast and
solidifies my high-class behavior.
>> as far as pimps, like you mentioned, it is the same dynamic. they
>can only
>> pimp women with LSE
>
>Correct, but more acurately pimps will GIVE chicks LSE. There are a lot
>of "mid-ranged" SE people than can get trapped in the net of a dominant
>person.
I see. taking a chick that has a decent level of self esteem, but not enough
to STRONGLY define herself and RE-DEFINE her in the way that the pimp wants her
to be. the pimp convinces her, I suppose that she can't make any money using
her mind, so she needs to use her body. he would also convince her that he
"loves" her, but that love is CONDITIONAL on her bringing him money and there
is no one else on this planet that will love her if she falls from grace with
him.
I use a tactic similar to this, but it is not based on giving her LSE, but
bringing her to reality... which often SUCKS for these chicks. once I get them
to see REALITY, and that their lives as they have described them to me are NOT
really going in the direction that they HOPE and DREAM it is going, and I show
them how their selection processes are flawed, I get this "lost" look in their
eyes, and they reach their hands out to me to pull them out of the quicksand
before they sink below the surface. most of the time, I am just practicing, so
after I break them down, I build them back up before I leave the conversation.
if I want to keep them for a while, I let them know I am willing to work on
their problem with them and that they can hang with me until WE find a solution
to her problem. most of the time, I can tell that the chick's real life is
PATHETIC just from listening to what goes on in her daily life, and I don't
bother breaking her down at all... I just BAIL and NEXT her.
* * *
>>I will find a way to be inviting, yet standoffish.
>
>That is not necessary, except if you want to only PU LSEs from now on.
>Looking from her perspective as a goodlooking chick, she will be used
>to people being friendly to her at first - the LSE is about people not
>liking her after they get to know her (if she is goodlooking).
yes yes yes yes yes yes yes... that's right. thank you :) it's really that
she is hiding because she knows that she IS shit, but people don't SEE her as
shit because they only pay attention to how she looks. I can get away with
being friendly to her initially, so long as I have the HC response to finding
out about her LC (in her opinion) status. instead of having MY natural
reaction to LSE, which is to build her up, I need to RECOGNIZE her as LC and
ACT AS IF I am HC and she is LC.
>She will
>not think she is goodlooking, rather that it is "normal" and "common"
>that strangers are friendly at first. (even though they aren't against
>UGs!) Changing your style when you find out she is LSE is enough.
yeah. that's what I was thinking when I read what you wrote above :)
>Maybe
>incorporate some sort of 'test' for SE, accusing her of something for
>example. If she can't defend herself, go into HC-mode.
yes. good idea. I don't know what you mean about accusing her of something.
I accused a chick the other day of dressing provocatively in order to snag some
guy into fucking her and she clammed up. she didn't say no and she didn't say
yes. she let me say ANYTHING I wanted to say about her. I don't know how to
read this. could you give any examples of a test? or can I just use ANYTHING
I want and if she refuses to stand up for herself on ANYTHING, I move into HC
and do what I want to her because she isn't going to stop me from that either?
also, how does this play against extroverted LSEs?
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fastseduction.com query dump, author: MrSex4uNYC (1611)
================================================================================
"MrSex4uNYC" <[email protected]>
Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:56:47 GMT
newsgroup: alt.seduction.fast
subject: Re: LSE chick (head) case study
>One of my friends always act sort of a "jerk" around LSE chicks, and the
>first thing first, he uses them for something. Such as "Give me that lighter
>on the table." He won't even say please, and the lighter is the same
>distance from the chick and him. It's sort of a test, to see if she is LSE.
>Before using the girl, he kinds of gives her a sign that he notices her but
>does not state that he likes her. I've tried to use the same jerkish tone of
>language he uses on my own pick-ups, and most of the time, the results are
>very bad. Now I realize that he only used it on LSE chicks.
HC = high class LC = low class... read back in the thread for relevance.
I think this is the answer to the question that I had about tests for LSE. my
former wing used to do this all the time. the first thing he would do with
chicks is COMMAND them. if they didn't comply, he would keep on moving, like
she wasn't worth interacting with. since the chick saw him as HC to begin with
and WANTED him (as we could see by how she was staring at him), his behavior
after realizing that she can't follow orders was CONGRUENT with his being HC
(at least in her LSE mind). I saw a chick RUN AFTER HIM after failing to
comply with a command that he gave her. he and I saw the chick at the same
time. she was staring at him. he looked her dead in the face and gave her an
order. she didn't move. he didn't say anything else, but stood there waiting
for like 3 seconds staring at her. she still didn't move. he made a face like
"fuck this bitch" and started walking again and we got maybe 10 steps away from
her before she came RUNNING up behind us and complied with his command. I
guess the op to be USED by a HC was too MAGNETIC to her to pass up. she WANTED
to pass it up, but when she saw her chance walking away, she SNAPPED into
action :)
perhaps she was testing him. I think that she was standing there because she
didn't BELIEVE he was HC until he turned around and kept walking like nothing
just happened. I'm sure that tons of guys commanded her to do things and then
when she stalled, they started ASKING her instead of telling her. asking her
implies that SHE has a choice in the matter and since when does a LC determine
ANYTHING about her relationship to a HC? he must be LC like her if he won't
hold his position, or dump her as useless. when he passed her HC test, she
came running to him, just like when I passed HIS HC test, I went from being
some piece of shit (in his opinion) to being one of his BEST FRIENDS overnight
:)
the reason you are not getting away with it is A) you can only do this with
LSE chicks like you said, and B) it is not congruent with your nature. it's
like trying to LOOK brave in front of a dog that can DETECT that you are afraid
of it.
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