mASF post by "intlzncster"
posted on: mASF forum: Advanced Discussion, February 2, 2005NYpartyguy,
>It's very childish to post here complaining about why you don't post here.
>If you don't post here, it is your own loss, you really aren't hurting
>anyone.
Your right. Point taken.
>Now we get to the meat of the matter. So much for your objectivity and only
>having friends. You instructed at RSD and thus can't possibly keep
>objectivity.
That's not the only group I've instructed with. Also, I've never been paid,
and hence remain objective. I owe allegance to no one.
>More qualified than who? Than me? Just b/c you guest instruct a few
>workshops doesn't mean you're qualified for anything.
The fact that I've been exposed to a large number of students makes me
qualified to judge what students are like. Since you are an "empirical"
guy, any sample of 30+ from any population is considered to be statistically
significant, that is, representative of the whole. By instructing/being
exposed to more than 30 students, I've got a good idea as to the makeup of
the the entire body of students in the market.
>It's very rare that I find any instructor taking other workshops.
What about Harmless? I believe he stood in on some Juggler stuff at the
Austin Summit.
And realize that an instructor taking another workshop is a commercial clash
of interest. A manager of McDonald's will NEVER eat at Burger King. Its
business 101 bro.
>Since you brought it up, I was under the impression that instructors were
>top notch and didn't need further learning. I would personally feel uneasy
>knowing that my instructor still needed to take workshops.
That's not a smart comment. Dude, the best guys never stop learning. I
haven't been to a summit, but I've heard that the best guys are extremely
eager to get some "instruction" from each other so they can suppliment their
game with different methods. There isn't a player in the game that isn't
psyched to learn from other good guys (unless said player's ego isn't the
size of Asia), shit even instructors learn from their students.
Professional golfers are the best at their game, yet nearly all of them have
swing coaches, sports pyschologists, trainers, etc. They understand they
need additional input/instruction to grow and improve and continue to be
successful.
Anyone who stops learning, is dead (metaphorically speaking). Might as well
pack up shop and get into a different game.
> I would personally feel uneasy knowing that my instructor still needed to
> take workshops. However, good luck with that and hopefully you'll write up
> a review in the review board.
This is because you are new to personal development and the game.....and if
not, I hope you experience the growth you are looking for. Oh, and thanks,
I will be sure to post a review.
>Workshops are not universities. These are not (in general ) highly skilled
>teachers who went through years of college training to learn how to be
>professors. For the most part it is a group of guys who have some knowledge
>and are trying to explain what they do so others can understand and do the
>same.
Exactly. Very good point, but, as instructors are not highly skilled
teachers, it puts more onus on the student to do the bulk of the learning.
They haven't gone through years of training to learn how to teach, and
students are well equipped to learn (humans are learning machines, not to
mention school, sports, video games, music, art, etc...), so they should do
it.
>And it's the job of people like me to help inform newer guys so there is an
>even perspective.
Fair enough, but you can't fault me for pointing out advice that I felt was
misinformed. And please don't give me the marketing thing again, because as
I said before, I don't disagree with you on this. And an even perspective
is always a good thing.
>Since you're not around here much, you wouldn't know about that, but guys
>do actually look out for each other on here.
I come here occasionally and scan through the good posts. What I've found
is that there is a large enough amount of flaming on this board, to the
point where alot of the good learnings are lost.
>Only in your made up fantasy world, where money grows on trees.
You just don't get it. The same scarcity frame we talk about when dealing
with women applies to money as well. Probably moreso. We say don't worry
about the interaction with that one particular girl, because there is a
million others close by. Same thing applies to money. It's all around us,
you just have to figure out how to tap into that vein. The first step is
fixing your beliefs around money. I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm
being serious. I want you to get this. Poor people usually remain poor
because of their beliefs in themselves and their beliefs around money.
>you only went off on your own tangent about how you're old and rich and we
>can all be old and rich....and blah blah blah. Save it for your grand kids.
I'm not old, nor am I rich (but on my way to both :). I'm under 30, and in
a wealth creation phase of my life.
I refer to college kids as young and inexperienced, because the greatest
level of personal growth in most western societies occurrs during the period
of mid twenties to early thirties.
>What I said still stands, no one can throw away 1500 on something that
>doesn't work, except for rich guys who don't like posting here but do so
>anyway.
My point was that you only throw that 1500 away if you choose to. If you
want to, you can get a shitload out of a workshop. My friend Chariot, now
an instructor for RSD, took a workshop just under a year ago. It vaulted
his game to untold levels, because he busted his balls during workshop. His
game is now one of the tightest I've ever seen, surpassed only by PlayboyLA
(this is just from guys I've hung out with). I haven't seen Toecutter yet.
Look most people, especially in this community, want to be spoon fed. They
feel they have a divine right to this PU knowledge and skillset. It is
another symptom of the learned helplessness that I mentioned in my last
post. That is the feeling I get from you. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>You know what they say about what happens when you ASSume, right?
Here are a few of your sentences:
1. "Since you're not around here much"
2. "tangent about how you're old and rich and we can all be old and
rich"
3. "Judging by your post, you are not familiar with workshop students.
Nor are you even aware of why workshops exist in the first place"
All of these are assumptions. Don't be a hypocrite.
>Awwwww, that's so cute, you have the Shark CD also.
It's lame when you try and use an ASF AMOG tactic in post. It comes off
very weak. And yes that includes when TD and other top guys do it.
>Oooh the rich guy is telling me more about money. The reason why you said
>it was to try to qualify yourself as some kind of expert, but it just comes
>off as lame. Why else would you mention a loan that no one can possibly get
>without collateral.
Anyone can get this loan man. You don't need the to have the collateral
upfront, because you put up future collateral (generally property that you
plan to purchase) on the loan. You need to work on your financial
intelligence.
>it is about not wasting money on things that do not work.
And my point was that the reason it was a waste of money was because of you,
not the workshop. While a workshop might not have been great, I can see by
your attitude that you did not get all out of it that you could.
>They only expect what they are told. This is why I can't leave the
>marketing out of it b/c that's where it comes from. They only expect what
>they are told.
LOL. What are they sheep? I never wanted you to leave marketing out of it,
I just wanted you to state it for what it was.
>Again, it's that word solely. See, solely implies you alone. When you pay
>money for a workshop, the instructors take some of that burden as well. How
>much is argumentative, but there is some responsibility.
You still miss my point. Each individual is responsible for himself. If
you give that responsibility to someone else you will get burned. Each
workshop instructor has a responsibility to deliver the goods, but the
student has the full responsibilty to learn it. The instructor can't shake
you by the shoulders and say, "You've got to learn this stuff man!"...and
then its magically handled.
>Now you are trying to define degrees of bad internals.
If you don't think there are degrees of bad internals, you are on CRACK.
Every guy is different, and some dudes come from much tougher mental spaces
than others. There is a whole spectrum of good and bad internals. My point
was that some guys internals are so bad, that they refuse to help
themselves. Even when someone is trying to teach them, they subconciously
refuse the help and make excuses as to why they can't make something work
for them.
>I didn't bother to read it. I left it in the reply so others can read it if
>they like.
Too bad, you could really learn something from that guy.
>LOL. Who is they? Did they scientifically research this? Sounds very
>anecdotal to me. I deal with empirical here.
They is both Anthony Robbins and Richard Branson. One of the foremost
leaders in the world around personal development and one of the worlds most
successful businessmen, much more highly qualified men to speak on the
subject than you and I will ever be.
If you deal only in the empirical, you are missing out on the good stuff in
life. You'll never develop "natural" game, as badboy likes to put it.
Empirical guys deal in techniques, only an initial step in learning the
game.
>Now you admit to lying to students. I want to know what workshops you
>instruct for? I think we all have a right to know so we can avoid those
>workshops that blatantly lie.
Are you kidding??? What does a coach say to his team at the end of a game
(even if the odds are against them)? Does he say, "Sorry guys, we can't
win. Go home. Pack it in."?
Not even close. He'll more likely say something along the lines of ,
"Common' boys, get out there! You can do this! We've got them right where
we want them."
>>It is always better to be overly optimistic in this area. Always. If
>>someone tells you that you can do something, its generally the case that
>>you are more likely able to do it. It gives you a sense of certainty.
>>The power of positive suggestion.
>This is all armchair KJ stuff. Again no proof is offered, and I bet you
>read that in some book somewhere.
LOL. Here, I'll illustrate what I was trying to explain with a real life
situation: You know Bill Gates?
"What most people don't realize is that Bill Gates, ...was not just some
genius who got lucky, but a person who put himself on the line with no
references to back up his belief. When he found out that an Albuquerque
company was developing something called a "personal computer" that needed
BASIC software, he called them up and promised to deliver it, even though he
had no such thing at the time. Once he had committed himself, he had to
find a way. His ability to create a sense of certainty was his real genius.
Many people were just as intelligent as he was, but he used his certainty to
be able to tap into his resources, and within a few weeks he and a partner
had written a language that made the personal computer a reality. By
putting himself on the line and finding a way, Bill Gates set in motion that
day a series of events that would change the way people do business, and
became a billionaire by the time he was 30 years old. Certainty carries
power!.....People so often develop limiting beliefs about who they are and
what they're capable of. Because they haven't succeeded in the past, they
believe they won't be able to succeed in the future. As a result, out of
their fear of pain, they begin to constantly focus on being "realistic".
Most people who constantly say, "let's be realistic," are really just living
in fear, deathly afraid of being disappointed again. Out of that fear, they
develop beliefs that cause them to hesitate, to not give their all --
consequently they get limited results." (Tony Robbins - Awaken the Giant
Within, pgs 80-81).
What instructors try to do is give students certainty around their game.
Make them believe. Its fundamental to developing inner game» from nothing.
>>Optimism rules!
>I agree with that also.
Obviously, you do not, as most of your points were very negatively geared,
bent at attacking not helping/explaining.
Best,
intlzncster
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