mASF post by "DavidCopafeel"
posted on: mASF forum: Field Reports Discussion, June 6, 2005Hey guys – BIG thanks to ALL for the feedback. I was out of town for a few days
so I’m just getting to respond to you guys now.
I think what I have learned from this experience is that girls have very real
issues that they have to get clear before they allow you to take things to the
next level. I thought this girl was playing “hard to get” just for its own sake
but actually she probably has better things to do with her time than run around
with someone just to get the validation from them (although I’m sure that there
are some LSE girls who do this). Sometimes my desire to have sex with a girl
makes me forget that she is still a human being who has her own issues. In fact
maybe I carry around some sense of entitlement that every girl who gives me
IOIs should want to fuck me and if they offer any resistance it is because they
are whackjobs who are playing hard to get. In this case she basically told me
everything I needed to know in order to have sex with her. But because I’m a
human being and I don’t like to hurt people, when a girl tells me that she had
been very hurt in the past by guys who just hump her and dump her, I decided
that I wasn’t willing to lie about my feelings about her just to get her into
bed. The truth is that I don’t see a future for us together – I believe in
ethical PU. (Quick survey: Have other people read mASF and gone away with the
feeling that it’s OK to manipulate a girl in whatever way necessary in order to
fuck her, without regard for her feelings, on the premise that deep down she
really does want to fuck you, but won’t admit it to herself because of ASD,
social conditioning, etc…?)
Anyway, she needed to know 2 things:
1> Did I merely have "asian fever" or did I really like her for who she was?
2> Did I think she was relationship material or just a fuck?
JJ: I think that you’re right. Later the same day, she gets her friend to call
me pretending not to know who I am and telling me that my number showed up on
their call display. Without knowing who it was, I said “well what are the names
of the people at your number?” and she said “x-name and y-name” and I said “yes
I know “y-name (my girl)” but I didn’t call her. Then my girl calls me 15
minutes later and asks me if I called her. I told her that I didn’t and that I
already got a call about that from someone else and not to play games. I got a
little angry because memories of a girl who practically stalked me came to my
mind and I was responding to that. I was angry that she was being so indirect
and immature. I would much rather have had her tell me what she wanted rather
than play games – but I wasn’t surprised – I had become accustomed to her
playing a lot of games.
The fox: the way I’ve conveyed it, it might sound like it was all forced but if
you had seen her body language it was NOT saying “no” for most of it. You
really have to watch what a girl does – this will tell you what she really
wants. This particular girl had a lot of trouble being direct about what she
wanted. This girl was saying that she would feel guilty but while I was rubbing
her pussy she had her hands in my hair and was kissing me. It’s a feel thing –
she wouldn’t have gotten under the covers with me if she didn’t want to get
sexual.
The Fose: your feedback was helpful – I thought about it quite a bit. I agree
that her main issue is that she doesn’t want to throw away her current
relationship with her boyfriend for just sex (although who said she had to?) My
feeling was that she was interested in me for more than just a sexual encounter
but when she didn’t hear that I would be interested in having a relationship
with her, her fear about being a sex object/short-term material became
amplified and she started to cry. I don’t think this girl really wants to have
a fling – it would only happen because someone aroused her so much that she
couldn’t help it or lied to her. She’s not comfortable enough with herself to
be sexually free – she really needs the validation of knowing that a guy would
want to have a relationship with her.
I don’t agree that she only seemed indirect because of my push-pull. This girl
was indirect before she ever asked me why I called her. She might really have a
friend that she wanted to introduce me to but my feeling is that she was using
this as a covert way to check out my availability and what kind of guy I was.
Girls play these kind of games all the time – they’re also afraid of rejection.
Detrats: It is about reward/punishment. I actually do it kind of naturally
because I am sensitive to rejection. The key is to do it without sulking which
has been a challenge for me. It gives her a little taste of the unpleasant
feeling of what it would be like to have a connection with you and then lose
it. In retrospect, it may not have been the best technique because I think this
girl really needed to talk about the whole issue of my level of interest.
Ignoring her merely deferred the issue and although I might have got the fuck
if I had persisted more, neither one of us would have felt good about it, which
is much more important to me than the mere achievement of fucking a girl. Sex
for me doesn’t occur in an amoral vacuum but within the context of attraction
and good feelings. So I would say that ignoring has to be carefully calibrated
and used sparingly and probably only works on people with LSE/ big validation
needs.
RPG: Thankyou for all the effort you put into your response! I really
appreciate the “frame-by-frame” analysis. What struck me most was that you
thought that her primary intention was to introduce me to “her friend” the
whole time whereas I saw it as a covert, safe way to check out my availability
and personality. I never thought of it as a way of her getting validation from
her friend by giving her a gift. Do girls really do this? I always thought of
them as more competitive.
I agree with you that I should have addressed her questions directly rather
than ignore her.
I think this girl knew what she wanted – she was having a conflict between her
sexual/romantic attraction and the possibility that sex might happen without me
giving her an indication that I wanted a relationship. This girl has some
self-control issues. I think she wanted a relationship but was scared that it
might be just another guy who wanted to fuck her and then leave her in the
trash heap. At the same time, all of the push/pull, cocky funny was turning her
on.
I think that intercourse is somehow different for a girl from other sexual act
– it is the ultimate expression of surrender so that girls can do everything
but fuck you and still feel that they did not betray their boyfriends. I know
it sounds retarded to us. I know there are tactics to really push it through to
a fuck but I only want sex from a girl if I think that she’s going to feel good
about it. I didn’t get that feeling from this girl.
Anyway thanks again to all.
Dave
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