mASF post by "Delta Male"
posted on: mASF forum: Field Reports Discussion, May 5, 2005Hey dude, it was a blast hanging out with you this weekend, and your game went
up tremendously. Between this and your RSI bootcamp next week, you're going to
see your game shoot up drastically in the next month. Here's my thoughts on
your FR.
We see a set in
>the street, and to help me get
>over my approach anxiety, they
>tell me to go in with a very
>special opener. So we tell
>them we needed a second to ask
>them a simple question. The
>girl sees me chewing a piece
>of gum, and asks for a piece.
>I say after she answers she
>can have a piece. So I go
>ahead and ask the question
>“Hey, you wanna fuck”.
>Surprisingly they declined,
>but I gave the girl a piece of
>gum anyway. They were
>surprised, but they weren’t
>upset. They even wished us
>good luck.
LOL. The expression on their face was priceless. This was good to demonstrate
that no matter what you say, sets never actually "crash and burn." The worst
that ever happens is the girls walk away. Obviously this is a terrible opener,
but it's good to take away newbies' limiting beliefs.
>
>So we go to the first club,
>but can’t get inside because
>we have to be over 21. Dan
>opens a set in the street
>whose wearing cowboy hats.
>He’s talking, I try to get in
>the conversation, but don’t
>know what to say. We couldn’t
>get inside the club because it
>was over 21, so we had to go
>to a different place. I
>watched Dan open a set in the
>street, he gets me in, but I
>don’t know what to say, I
>froze up. Mirage came in the
>set and kept it alive. I
>tried to make smart cocky
>funny statements, but it
>didn’t work out too well, the
>girls just kind of ignored me.
>They were just waiting for a
>guy, and went inside his Rolls
>Royce. It was okay, we had to
>go to another club anyway.
This is why it's good to type up FRs. You can literally see the reason why you
didn't hold the set in black and white -- you *tried* to make smart cocky funny
statements to raise your value.
As Woodhaven says, its not the techniques, but the beliefs behind them that are
important. The beliefs behind *trying* to be cocky/funny are bad -- it
presupposes that you are low value, and need to entertain her with C&F in order
for her to talk to you.
You could see a huge improvement by the end of the weekend in your game in this
department -- instead of trying to entertain with C&F, you let it come out
naturally, and it came off as more genuine and spontaneous. Thus, your better
results.
>
>We see another set in the
>street, as Dan was guiding me
>on how to approach them. Dan
>told me to walk up beside
>them, a little in front, look
>over and say “Hey, What’s up?”
>As I’m about to, I see Mirage
>run in front of them, and
>throw both his hands up and
>stops them. He than uses an
>opinion opener, and we talk
>for a bit, and head out to
>another club. It was a
>completely different way to
>stop them than Dan told me,
>but it works just as good. So
>there it was, two different
>ways to stop girls who are
>walking and they both work.
>We stop them, and chat them up
>for a bit and they leave.
Haha, gotta love having a cool wing :).
>
>Next we are taking the subway,
>and there’s a cute girl they
>want me to approach her. I’m
>set, I’m pumped, I run up
>behind her. I yell “HEY!”.
>She almost had a heart attack
>and practically fell down the
>stairs. Than I say “I think
>you’re really cute, I want to
>meet you”. She made a big
>sigh and looked really
>relieved. I wasn’t going to
>kill her. I think she said
>“Thanks, but I have a fiancé,
>and showed me the ring.” It
>was really cool though, even
>though I did it wrong, I’m
>still okay. Than they get me
>to approach another girl
>waiting for the subway. I go
>up to her and say “Hey, let me
>tell you something. I think
>you’re really cute, I want to
>meet you” (It’s my favorite
>opener, I learned it from
>Dan). She said she wasn’t
>from Boston, I also said I
>wasn’t. We talked, either I
>was too shy to ask for a
>number close, or she didn’t
>want to give it to me, I can’t
>really remember.
Haha, that first approach was priceless. The next approach was better though.
It's good that you had the balls to open direct right off the bat. Lots of guys
like to hide behind opinion openers and techniques designed to fake
disinterest, simply because they don't have the balls to be direct. You do, and
it'll take you far.
>
>The club isn’t really my
>environment, because I can’t
>dance, but that doesn’t really
>matter. The approach should
>start outside of the dance
>floor anyway. As soon as we
>enter, Dan approaches like the
>machine that he is. The club
>was so loud, and my projection
>isn’t great so it was hard.
>We made a whole bunch of
>approaches, I can’t even
>really remember them. This
>Asian set opened up really
>well. It was two Korean’s and
>2 Chinese. One of the girls
>was really good looking, and
>she was into us the most. Two
>were above average, and one
>was average. The average one
>was the one who wasn’t
>interested. We talked for a
>while and we left. I think we
>opened them up a total of
>three times and finally got a
>number close outside of the
>club. I think we all got
>numbers, I got the girls
>number by asking if she has a
>phone, she said yes, and
>handed it to me, I called my
>number with it. She was like,
>now we both have each others
>numbers. Another noteworthy
>one was this Bulgarian girl.
>She didn’t seem to be into me,
>but I kept talking, and Dan
>kept throwing me in, every
>time I wanted to leave. She
>seemed to warm up, but we
>didn’t dance. Outside of the
>club, she gives me a huge
>smile, and I approach. Her
>friend is looking at me like
>who is this creep. I say
>“what’s up?” I see Dan and
>Mirage chasing a target, and
>when they left so did my
>confidence. I’m not sure what
>to say, and don’t want to lose
>them. Complicated for me, and
>I end up leaving. I should
>have tried to close.
I'd definitely reccomend going for the close on every set. It was reccomended
to me by -- guess who -- Woodhaven, and it really helped me totally eliminate
my fear of closing.
>
>Mirage tries a new approach.
>He goes up to a girl and says
>“I really hate your shoes”
>She says “excuse me”, he
>repeats himself, and she
>replies with “I really hate
>your face”. Hopefully the
>approach will work better next
>time.
Funny, and informative. This is a good counterexample to all the bad ASF
programming which says that you MUST do C&F/negs right off the bat, or the girl
won't open up. Many girls don't respond to fake disinterest techniques.
>
>The next day, it’s Me and
>Mirage. Dan has a job
>interview, so we sarge the
>mall for daytime. I’m trying
>to come across as not creepy.
>At 1 o’clock we meet for a
>GSF. There are a lot of
>really cool people in the
>Boston lair. We have 7
>people, and sarging in one
>group of 7 would be a little
>ridiculous. We split off into
>two groups of two and one
>group of three.
Yeah dude, we have a good thing going up here in Boston. And, we don't even
have a cover charge to get into our meetings! How cool is that ;).
>It’s Me, Dan,
>and another guy, we’ll call
>him Michael (it’s not his real
>name, but it’s to keep him
>anonymous). So it’s two
>newbies and Dan. Michael was
>into indirect, he would go up
>and ask the girls what they
>thought about pink shorts on a
>guy. He had a catalogue with
>him and asked what they
>thought about those shorts.
>We mainly just got their
>opinions. I opened a set with
>him, and opened indirect. It
>was a combination of me still
>being nervous with approach
>anxiety, and him being an
>indirect guy. I tried to come
>up with a situational opener,
>I asked them what they thought
>about a guy buying clothes for
>his girlfriend. They thought
>it was great, and if I needed
>help to just ask. They were
>asking me what style she
>liked, I really didn’t know
>what to say, I was like, uhh
>I’m not sure. Than Michael
>comes in with his shorts, and
>I had to switch it up with the
>fastest thing I could think
>of. I was like, well I just
>wanted your opinion on that
>because Michael’s girlfriend
>wants to buy clothes for him,
>and wanted to see what you
>thought if it was the other
>way around. We talked for a
>little more, but the set
>didn’t go great. At least
>they weren’t scared when we
>approached.
This was good to show you a few problems with opening indirect. First off, you
should never carry a prop just to use to open girls. It is, as Shark would say,
EXCUSER BEHAVIOR. It shows that you cannot talk to girls normally, so you need
a prop to do it.
With an indirect style, you open a lot more sets. But as you observed, you also
open a lot of sets who just give you their opinion and move on. I like
direct/implicit direct much better. You get blown of a few more sets right off
the bat, but your closing percentage is MUCH HIGHER. This is becuase you come
off as very incongruent if you try to fake like you're only talking to her to
get her opinion on a girly topic, and then try to set up a meet ten minutes
later.
>
>Me and Dan see a two set, so
>of course we approach them.
>One of the girls is Thai, and
>the other is Korean. I was
>initially talking to the Thai
>while Dan talks to the Korean.
>They weren’t very open to
>talking with us, but I answer
>the Korean girls question in
>Korean (I know a little bit).
>Than we switch I talk to the
>Korean and he talks to the
>Thai. The set went
>beautifully. We both # close.
>The only thing is the Korean
>girl is going back to Korea in
>a couple of days. I was
>happy, I finally did it. I
>got a # close.
This was a fucking tight set. Dude, when you find Korean girls who speak
Korean, exploit that shit just like you did there. You should almost never
switch targets mid-set like that, but I could see that you were IN with the
Korean girl, just becuase you spoke Korean. I would say that this was our most
awesome set of an awesome day.
We end up
>having a LAIR meeting. We
>answer each others questions
>and help each other out. We
>give our opinions on everyones
>strengths and weaknesses. To
>make a good day great, I see a
>Vietnamese girl on the train,
>and open her direct. I say
>“Hey, whats up? Let me tell
>you something. I think you’re
>really cute, I wanna meet you”
>She was flattered. We talk
>for a couple minutes and than
>the person behind her leaves.
>So I sit behind her, just
>because I wanted to sit, and
>she turns a little to the side
>so she can face me. It’s my
>stop so I suggest we talk
>again sometime. She tells me
>her really long email, but
>neither of us have a pen and
>paper. I give her my phone
>and she writes her number in
>it. Another great one.
Again, great set. You got attraction right off the bat -- she turned towards
you, despite the bad logistical arrangement of the seats, and gave other IOIs.
You have some phone game to do, but she'll definitely pick up.
>
>Sunday was an even better day.
>Things were just wonderful.
>Dan goes up to this three set,
>and goes up to one girl. Her
>two friends leave so that he
>can # close her. That’s just
>how tight his game was.
This was really incredible. This was a drop-dead sexy girl hanging with two
UGs. I open her very direct, and completely ignore the UGs, and they just WALK
AWAY. Now it doesn't always happen like this, but it's a good example for
people who worry overly about cockblocks and end up entertaining the group.
This is leftover ASF programming from the bad old days that we've gotta kill.
Only talk to the girls you're not interested in as much as you have to.
>I
>approached a lone wolf at the
>bookstore and got her number
>in a couple of minutes. We
>approach a bunch of sets,
>things are going great. The
>girls love us. High school
>girls look so good, it’s
>scary, just gotta make sure
>their legal.
LOL. I have a meet with a high school girl on Sunday, we'll see how that turns
out. I phone gamed by calling her and saying "Hey...I'm a loser. I'm free
Sunday, 6-8, and there are ten chicks waiting in the line for me and I have a
very busy schedule so this is your only chance to ever, ever get with me."
For those who don't get it, that's a quote from the Shark CD, about how hot
chicks are used to guys who try to fake like they're busy and have lots of
chicks chasing them in order to raise their value. Very funny, and very true. I
see guys doing this all the time, and it is LAME.
>
>I opened a two set direct. At
>first I was a little scared
>because there was a security
>guard around. I felt like I
>was doing something wrong.
>Like talking to people is
>wrong. The set opened up
>nicely though, and we talked
>for a few minutes. The girls
>were resistant to the close.
>Dan closes his girl fairly
>easily, and I’m trying to get
>mine to close. The girl was a
>little resistant to the number
>close, so to close, I asked to
>see her phone, and dialed my
>number. I don’t know why, but
>she didn’t mind. If I ask,
>she said no, but since I just
>did it, she was okay with it.
>The security guard watched,
>everything went okay. He
>probably thought we were gods
>when he saw us # close.
This was great. Of course we weren't going to get kicked out -- we were just
being social, fun guys. This is also leftover bad programming from the days
where the gurus were NLP weirdos.
When you're sarging, you're not being a sneaky bastard out there to brainwash
people with your secret mindfuck patterns. You're not doing anything
underhanded, devious, or wrong. You're being a normal, cool, social, fun guy,
who enriches the lives of everyone he comes in contact with. And you learned
this well by the end of the weekend ;).
>
>The coolest set we did was a
>huge set. It was mixed with
>like 9 people, guys and girls.
>Dan opens up the set, and we
>talk. The girls tell us their
>all cheerleaders, we believe
>them. We talk about different
>things for a while. The girls
>than tell us they are part of
>the mock trial team and they
>are not cheerleaders. We
>weren’t phased by it at all.
>We keep talking, and I turn
>around. All the guys are
>gone, I didn’t even realize.
>I can’t believe what just
>happened. We ended up #
>closing.
This was a perfect example of how to run a huge set like this. We entertained
the whole group for the perfect amount of time...enough to keep them from
cockblocking, and let them get a sense of our value, but not so much that we
got into an entertainment frame. We made our move decisively and at the perfect
time to cut everyone else out of the convo and close the two HBs.
I've noticed that most guys are pussies like this. They know that we are far
out of their league, so they don't even try to compete, they just walk away.
True AMOGs are extremely rare.
Also good was how well we passed their big shit-test, the lying to us about how
they were cheerleaders. Most guys would have freaked out/been thrown off by
this, but we took it in stride.
>
>I was really happy right about
>then. We were doing great. I
>felt like I could do it all, I
>was just a cool person. Too
>cool. We went to go get some
>tea, Boston has some really
>great tea. I think the place
>was called Teavana, and I
>recommend it completely. Now
>instead of drinking about a
>gallon of free samples, I
>decided to actually buy some.
>I wasn’t sure, so I asked one
>of the girls to help me. She
>was a really cool girl who I
>should have tried closing.
>The tea takes 5 minutes, and I
>made a comment about it being
>a long time. She said it’s
>because it’s made with love.
>I was asking questions about
>Boston, and she was answering
>them, and people just joined
>in on our conversation. It
>was great.
This was really awesome. You were literally the anchor of all the fun in the
store -- there was like a ring of people gathering around you, having a good
time. This is what being a fun, social guy is all about, making everyone you
come in contact with feel good not just when you're sarging, but in your day to
day life.
>
>We ended up running into
>Mirage at the mall. We sarged
>a bit, but everything closes
>at 6 in Boston on Sundays.
>Mirage fixes my body language.
>It doesn’t feel right the way
>he fixed it, and I have to
>keep reminding myself to go
>back to it. I normally slouch
>a bit, and thought it would be
>gay if I stood like that. I
>was wrong. Dan did a street
>approach and it was just
>great. It was a HB, and he
>opens up direct. He talks her
>up for a couple minutes than
>he brings in Mirage. Her job
>came up somehow, and Mirage
>responded with saying “you do
>bitch work”. She didn’t think
>that was funny, but we did.
>She walked away, and than she
>turned back around. Than he
>said he does bitch work, she
>asks him what he did and he
>said he’s an ass model. The
>set didn’t close, but it was
>still good, because it made us
>laugh. PU shouldn’t be a job,
>it should be fun.
Haha, this was pretty funny, but again proved the point that being cocky/funny
in the wrong way or at the wrong time can blow you out of lots of sets. My
approach was very honest, sincere, and direct. When Mirage jumped in with the
C&F, it was incongruent with my genuine/romantic approach, hence the blowout.
He's just lucky that it was so funny, and that he's one of the best PUAs I've
ever winged with, as well as a great friend ;).
>
>That night we did phone game.
>I wasn’t sure of how to do it,
>and just tried it out after
>watching Dan do it. I ended
>up just sounding nervous or
>canned when I got the
>answering machine. I wasn’t
>sure what to talk about also,
>it’s like real life, but there
>is no person in front of you
>which seems to make things
>harder for me. You can’t use
>body language. I need to get
>better at this phone game.
>Monday morning one of the
>girls called me, and we talked
>for a little. She said she
>was busy and couldn’t meet for
>a day two, I was kind of
>rushing things because I’m
>going back to NY.
Phone game is key key key to natural game». It is very possible to get a real
number that will be answered in one minute or less. But, you have to do some
phone game in order to get a meet. Usually, it's about 30-60 minutes per girl.
>
>Well Monday I did about a
>couple hours of sarging
>myself. It wasn’t going great
>at all. Approach after
>approach didn’t work well. It
>wasn’t that they wouldn’t
>open, or weren’t flattered,
>because they were. Most
>wished me good luck. One girl
>had a huge smile and said
>thanks. She said no ones ever
>done that before, I asked if
>she was flattered and she said
>“yes”. I should have
>persisted and tried to close.
>I did get a couple girls who
>just ignored me. Most of the
>girls were saying they had
>boyfriends or engaged, I would
>usually reply with “that’s
>okay”. They usually smile and
>laugh, but I need to just keep
>talking and keep persisting.
>I back out pretty easily. I
>ended up getting 1 email from
>a Japanese girl, she was only
>visiting friends in America
>for a few days, and had no
>phone. I meet up with Dan,
>and things go better. He
>fixes my posture once again,
>because I was slouching.
You fixed this pretty well by the end of the weekend.
>
>I opened up a Japanese girl
>while she was walking. I came
>in from the side and opened
>direct. She loved it, and I
>just tried to find some kind
>of common ground for
>conversation. I told her I
>liked her name and it’s the
>same as one of my cousins
>names. Also I asked how it
>felt coming to America not
>knowing anyone and not knowing
>any English. Overall it went
>okay, and I got a # close from
>it.
Direct opener + sincere compliments = $$$
>
>I opened up a two set of
>Taiwanese girls. These girls
>spoke like no English. One
>was eating, and I opened her
>up, I tried to sit down, but
>she wouldn’t let me. I
>learned I should just sit down
>when I open her up. She was
>resisting, so I left, kind of
>nervous and didn’t know what
>to do. Than Dan makes me open
>her up again. I go and open
>her, and he comes in. Her
>friend also comes in, and we
>talk. We grab some chairs and
>sit down, it’s really hard to
>carry a conversation with
>them, but we managed. We got
>a day two for Tuesday, so
>hopefully it will work out.
Too bad these girls flaked, but it was still a really cool set. It barely
matters at all if girls speak limited
English...so much of conversation is non-verbal. I'm at my best with girls who
speak broken English, because all the strongest elements of my game are
non-verbal.
>
>Another set we opened, was a
>two set. Neither of them were
>really into us, but we made it
>work. One girl was getting
>jealous because we were
>talking to her friend more, so
>I started talking to her. It
>made her smile a bit and Dan
>was able to get a # close.
This was excellent wingmanship. She was going to drag her friend, but you
disarmed her. Thanks dude.
>
>Another set after that of two
>Taiwanese girls. Neither
>seemed interested at first,
>and were like why are you guys
>talking to us. We just
>ignored them, and one was
>showing interest. We
>switched, Dan took the one
>showing less interest, and I
>took the one showing more. We
>talked and were playing
>around, she was touching me.
>It would have worked out, but
>one girl just didn’t want to
>talk to us, so we didn’t get a
>number. They both have to be
>into it for that.
I think best would have been if you closed your girl first, becuase she was
interested. That would have set the tone for my girl, who was more closed off
towards new people like us. As it was, I had to close my girl first, which set
the tone for your girl, who wanted to meet up with us again. Oh well, we live
and we learn :).
We
>approached a girl getting a
>job interview, this one didn’t
>work out. The one giving the
>interview started getting
>upset and said we should leave
>or she’ll call security. Dan
>says he’s heartbroken, but we
>leave, no need to get thrown
>out.
Haha, Dimitri taught me this. If someone is really ridiculously rude to you
like this, you can have some fun with them as long as you do it in a playful
and non-serious way. If a girl reacting negatively to you doesn't phase you at
all, you can poke fun at her afterwards, and it won't come off as insecure or
trying to lower her value, just as a cool guy having a few laughs.
>
>In the train, Dan approaches
>one girl, who says she has a
>bf. He keeps talking and gets
>past her. She still refuses
>to give him her #, and says
>they can talk on the facebook.
>He finally gets her email.
I'm thinking that bypassing #'s altogether may be the way to go for these types
of shy Asian chicks. Just go directly for the meet, and get email to confirm.
I
>approach one waiting for the
>subway direct. She says she’s
>taking care of her bf because
>he’s sick, I try to close but
>am unable to. We’re one stop
>away from where we have to go,
>and I see a girl on my left.
>She has her ipod on and
>headphones. I decide to open
>direct and only have like 20
>seconds. I tell her “Hey,
>whats up?” She looks up and
>takes off her headphones and
>says “hi”. I tell her “Let me
>tell you something, I think
>you’re really cute and wanna
>meet you”. She smiles and
>says hi, we talk, and I go for
>the # close. She tells me she
>doesn’t live in Boston, and is
>going to NY in a couple of
>days. I tell her I live in NY
>and she gives in. I give her
>my Cell phone and she puts her
># in. It took me like less
>than a minute. Now I didn’t
>think my verbals were really
>good, I talked kind of fast.
>Dan says my nonverbals were
>good though so the set worked.
>
TIGHT. You went from scaring girl physically on approach, to being able to get
solid phone numbers in under a minute in the span of one weekend. Most
workshops don't have those kind of results...and I'm good, but I'm not at
professional instructor level yet. You improved so much because you tenaciously
hit huge amounts of sets, worked through rejection, and really wanted to
improve. Also, you're a naturally cool and funny guy, who just has to overcome
a few sticking points to become a PUA running natural game».
>
>
>Summary
>This weekend was great. The
>best way for me to learn is by
>field experience. I don’t
>really think there is any
>better method. To get my
>confidence up, I can try all
>these NLP techniques and all,
>but it’s just not me. I like
>to learn by experience. I
>need to force myself to
>approach. Sarging with a wing
>is much more fun than going
>alone by yourself. It’s
>easier to open sets, but if
>the girl is alone it’s easier
>to open alone a lot of times.
>I was scared of approaching,
>but now it’s much smaller. I
>can also get # closes. I need
>to work on my phone game and
>day 2’s. Any tips?
For the phone game, open with a story, like I told you. Let her remember you by
your personality, not by where you met her. Develop more rapport with her.
You'll get much more specific feedback in your bootcamp, but what you'll need
to do also is to phone game A LOT. Like, almost as much as your sarge real
life.
For Day-2s, plan logistics well. Include multiple activities. Have an isolation
plan at the end. Escalate kino the entire time. And have lots of fun.
This weekend was really a blast, and I'm glad you came. It was incredibly fast
learning on your part, and I'm proud of you. Keep this up in your bootcamp, and
you'll see your game go up much more than this weekend. Keep it up permanently,
and you'll be a PUA in no time.
-Dan
Mix it up
Rip it up
Play hard
-DIMITRI
Oh yeah, and make sure you come back to Boston again soon so we can PIMP this
entire city again.
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