mASF post by "lost_and_found"
posted on: mASF forum: Field Reports Discussion, April 4, 2005On 4/4/05 8:48:00 AM, Wulfen wrote:
>The wolf goes hunting!
>
>This lengthy field report
>might not give much insight to
>you, dear reader, but for me
>it's been a milestone. Due to
>several factors, including a
>little stress at work and the
>fact that I as of lately
>sarged with very alpha people
>(my wingman, and
>lost_and_found and his
>wingman) I was losing my edge.
>Mind you, I am noticeably
>shorter than any of them, both
>our wingmen are very hot, and
>lost_and_found has a game that
>is not from this world.
Gee, hehehe, thanx pal :-D.
> So I
>went to sarge with them the
>previous weekends but was not
>opening much and the few sets
>I tried (maybe two per night)
>were half-hearted attempts
>that went nowhere.
>
>So I was losing the little
>edge I had learned, and I was
>angry at myself, because the
>less I approached the less I
>wanted to approach and I was
>seeing the little experience I
>had dripping through my
>fingers. Could it be that,
>after so much effort put into
>this, was I going to lose
>whatever I had accomplished?
>No way!
>
>So I decided to take action.
>My main concern for opening
>was 1) performance fear and 2)
>lack of a good "default"
>opener for when there is no
>situational opener possible. I
>had some in my bag of tricks
>but they really weren't that
>good. So I decided to use the
>forum for what is worth, I
>DAFS and retrieved the
>"openers collection" post by
>razor44. I noted them down
>also with possible followups
>to the ones I liked more. This
>might seem nerdy behavior but
>man it PAID, more on this
>later. I also asked
>lost_and_found who gave me
>very good advice about keeping
>the group opened to the
>exterior when chatting among
>ourselves, which makes easier
>to approach, and to introduce
>the wingman when I stall, but
>not before, trying to run the
>set on my own for as long as
>possible. I applied to the
>letter these two advices also
>getting better results.
Yea, I'm glad they helped you. They where not some random advice, its stuff I
did notice about you guys in field, so I had to make an impact. What made the
trick is that you actually took the advice that is more than what 90% of the
people are willing to do, most will just rationalize their behaviour and keep
doing it their way. Good for you!
>There is also a third factor
>that amped up my game a lot:
>my wingman is becoming very
>very good at wingmanship. It
>makes a world of difference
>when you sarge with a wingman
>who reads ASF and tries to
>improve in his role. He now is
>very capable of motivate me to
>open - though he wouldn't open
>even if he was getting paid XD
>- he has very good tactical
>skills, he is very good at
>debriefing, he sends me
>on-the-spots covert messages
>about positioning ourselves in
>set, correcting BL, etc - he
>wingman-codes pretty well! -,
>he also notices when I stall
>and he picks up the lead and
>continues gaming the set.
He still has to open up a little, hes thinking a bit to much and doing a bit to
little. Sometimes I think ASF has given him some hi-tech excuses for inaction.
>So let's get to the action. In
>Saturday I got together with
>my wingman and two other guys.
>One was a natural long time
>ago but was betaised by his
>LTR, he's a hot guy and gets
>IOIs around. The other is your
>typical nerdy AFC, though he's
>got some balls and is not
>scared of talking to women
>once introduced, and his looks
>are above average. I've
>empirically found out that
>going to have some drinks to a
>quiet pub and having some
>laughs with your team pumps up
>the good state and puts
>everyone in the mood for a
>good night of sarging, much
>better than directly going to
>the noisy clubs. Does this
>happen to anyone else?
Of course!!!! Absolutely. That why my Italian wing and I always go for tapas
before going sarging. And why my wing here and I get drunk and fool around
before going sarging, when I hit the club I'm usually very excited from before.
>
>We hit the pubs, we went to
>one of l&f's preferred sarging
>grounds (Ludwig) and I said I
>wanted to do the throwaways
>ASAP. Again, I froze. I had
>fear of approaching again. My
>wingman, knowing this, said
>"open those", me: "hmm, I
>dunno", he: "ok, look, those
>are two common girls, they
>look they are bored, man, if
>you can't open these girls you
>can't open anything at all" -
>heh, he know pretty well that
>I *must* live up to a
>challenge. I went and opened
>with "shy girls" and I was
>surprised because the set
>opened very well! I had a
>little convo, stalled and
>ejected (no worries since it
>was a throwaway after all).
>Then I had a little bit
>trouble opening the next set,
>they were 2 cute petite girls
>that I really liked. I used
>"shy girls" and the set opened
>as well! I started to realize
>the opener was pretty good.
>The girls obviously didn't
>want me to bother them much,
>but since I had opened pretty
>well and I was being quite
>polite they didn't blow me
>away, instead they responded a
>bit to the convo though it was
>clear they were not much
>interested, so I said "ok, cya
>around guys" in a happy way
>and went back to my base.
Good good good. Leave the interaction there, that set can be easily reopen for
social proof.
>I think this happens because
>in the first hours of the
>night the girls don't have
>enough buying temperature and
>thus it's harder to engage
>them, I notice the sets are
>easier to open and hold as the
>night progresses. But this is
>fine: while the girls are
>getting their BT amped, I do
>the throwaways and amp my
>state. It's a win-win
>situation. The problem is when
>I start the night in a low key
>and at some point much later
>(3-4 am) I decide to do my
>first approach, my state is
>not amped up but girls' state
>is, so I don't perform up to
>the level.
I wouldn't call it BT but alcoholic intoxication level.
>Ok, I open a third set of
>petite girls dressed in black
>- I liked them much! - which
>were giving IOIs our way. As
>you all know, usually "shy
>girls" goes this way:
>
>Wulfen: you look like you are
>shy girls
>Girls: no, we aren't shy
>Wulfen: no you are, I say this
>because we've been around for
>a while and you haven't said
>hi yet
>
>With these girls it was:
>
>Wulfen: you look like you are
>shy girls
>HBs: yes, YES, WE'RE TOO
>SHY!!!
Excellent. BTW, good opener, I use that kind of stuff very often, its dumb as
shit but set a good teasing fun frame.
>And from that response I knew
>the game was ON ;) It was
>clear these were party girls
>and knew how to game. I
>started stacking stuff, trying
>to hold the set on my own as
>planned. Don't recall exactly
>the words but I was playfully
>busting on them, C&F Wulfen
>style. After a little while I
>started to notice one was more
>interested than the other, and
>that she was about to "pop" as
>TD said, so... wingman time!
>"do you see my friends, all
>these tall guys over there?
>can you believe my tall
>friends are shy, just like
>you, and it's us the small
>guys who have to do all the
>work? lemme introduce you..."
>and thus I grabbed my wingman
>and entered him into set. I
>let him speak and we were both
>alternating busting on the
>girls.
Good. However try to hold that set longer for yourself. One of them shows more
interest and you introduced your wing to divide and isolate. It was to soon,
reciprocate interest to the get by given her more kino, maybe a sideways hug
_while talking to the other_ that will make both comfortable. Hold that fucking
set alone by default.
>After some time we both
>stalled, and told the girls we
>were going back to our other
>buddies. And 10 minutes later,
>the girls moved there too :D
>
>I opened other sets and stuff,
>and I made a mistake that I
>later regretted. On one of the
>sets there was a cool girl who
>was not very hot but was very
>extroverted, she was
>intelligent and played the
>game quite well, she was
>talking to guys and
>introducing her girlfriends to
>the guys. I didn't realized
>that ... she was Wulfen in the
>other team! Let's call her
>CoolBabe. She was doubtless
>the coolest and most
>intelligent girl I met that
>night, for instance she even
>knew German - which is cool
>because very few spanish
>people know that language -
>and that implies culture, a
>background different from the
>rest of the sheep, and was
Who are you calling sheep?
>also a rapport point with me
>since I know German too.
>Cultured, intelligent,
>outgoing and playful... I
>should have stuck with this
>one even if I didn't like her
>much physically. Mind you, she
>was nice, she wasn't ugly or
>anything, she was quite above
>my minimum bar, but I was in
>the mindset of "opening HBs"
>and "do set after set until I
>regain my skillset back", and
>that blinded me. Mistake! And
>I regretted it later as you'll
>see.
>
>Later I reopened the party
>girls that had come around us.
>I reopened the one that showed
>more interest, and she
>responded me, but she was not
>very engaged, I think problem
>with party girls is that once
>they are introduced to my
>mates they want the hot guys
>to entertain them instead of
>me, and though I can push
>through this barrier - I have
>done so in order to
>demonstrate myself I can
>out-alpha a hotter guy in set
>- it really bothers me much
>because it's quite superficial
>indeed, so when I'm talking to
>a girl and she's constantly
>gazing at my wingman
>shamelessly either I try
>high-octane routines to live
>up to the challenge or I
>eject, but I always lose
>interest in the girl. I mean,
>it's ok my wingman gives you
>the hots, and it's ok that you
>give a lot of IOIs to him
>before I approach you, and
>it's even ok that you glance
>at him every now and then, but
>if I'm having a conversation
>with you and you are
>constantly glancing at a hot
>guy, it's a sign of disrespect
>to me and it shows you can't
>restrain yourself, so you lose
>a lot of points in my eyes.
>And my game improves the more
>I like the girl, and worsens
>the more I dislike her,
>because my brain is saying
>"this girl is no good, try
>gaming a better girl" and I
No its not. Its probably saying "damn my wing is hotter than I am, I hate him,
I hate the chick", and that sort of toxic crap. Maybe its not, but it probably
is, try to be aware of it if its the case.
>usually eject and open
>elsewhere. Don't know if these
>trains of thoughts are
>healthy, constructive feedback
>appreciated.
NO, very unhealthy. I told you before, I might seem to make you feel better,
but don't think your mind is going to put up with that shit, it knows better.
Your wing is more attractive than you are, accept it, mine is also. A girl
would rather talk to the most attractive guy, same as you would. Though huh? It
is, however same as you might rather talk to a girl that not thehottest but the
nicest most fun etc, she will also. Actually in the long run girl care less
about physical appearance than we do.
>
>We wanted to change venue. We
>went to get our coats and I
>met again CoolBabe, the one
>that knew german. I played a
>bit around with her, she was
>playful too with me. Mistake
>again, I should have stayed.
Now you are learning, awesome. Have you already began to rehearse in your mind
the interaction?
>We venue change. On the
>outside I met the two
>girlfriends of CoolBabe, and I
>called them by their names (I
>can remember babes names, I
>don't put any effort into it,
>it's a given, and some girls
>appreciate it). One was a
>fatty and the other a petite
>cute girl. I gamed both of
>them on the outside,
>high-octane, my game improves
>in less noisy places, the
>fattie was giving me lots of
>compliments (I'll take them as
>SOIs) though I didn't like her
>much. The petite one at first
>looked bothered but as she aw
>I was flawlessly gaming *both*
>of them she started looking
>more and more open. They told
>me to take them down to the
>cabs so I got one of them in
>each arm and walked to the
>cabs. Hey, I got out of a club
>with two girls in my arms!
>Point for Wulfen :)
You clit-teaser
>
>Ok, girls got to the cab, we
>entered the other venue
>(Gallery). I open another set,
>didn't go much further because
>I stalled. But then, look
>who's there, the party girls
>from the previous place! They
>were next to us and an AMOG
>was working the set. I busted
>on them and the cool one said
>"Yeah, we are stalking you",
>then I made a bold move that I
>have seen (l&f) but didn't
>thought I'd be able to
>achieve: I grabbed her hand
>and told her "come here" while
>pulling gently. She came along
>:) I chatted with her a bit
>but she promptly left back to
>the AMOG that was hitting on
>her friend. She didn't look
>pissed of or anything, I think
>she simply preferred the other
>guy, but in any case it's
>funny how in the moment I lead
>her to me she was completely
>unable to resist.
Domination with out neediness, that is very powerful. Grab the girls and move
them around, be dominant. You have to kiss a girl on the cheek?(very common in
Spain) don't lean to her and kiss, not that this show neediness, its a social
convention, but pull the girl into you by the waist and then kiss her.
>Ok, so I had told the other
>hot guy (the one who's not my
>wingman) that if he wanted me
>to open any girls he liked, he
>just needed to tell me so. He
>told me to open a set of HBs
>(an 8 and 2 7s) next to us.
>The 8 was quite tall. They
>intimidated me a bit at first.
>
>Wulfen: hmm I dunno, they are
>too hot for me
>Wingman: naaah, it's the
>lights (implying they are not
>too hot, but look so because
>it's dark)
That was darkvidator, right? He should open more and not lower them so much.
>--> Wulfen opens
>
>This man knows how to motivate
>me. I open with "shy girls"
>again, which has become my
>preferred opener at this
>point. They open easily and we
>all engage in convo, the four
>of us with the three of them.
>It's pretty dynamic since
>we're all already motivated
>and it goes more or less well.
>The thing is that at some
>point I try switching for
>rapport and the two 7s are
>like, hmm, not quite similar
>to me. This is a problem I
>have with club girls, they are
>so mainstream that I can't
>really relate to them, I try
>to elicit their values and
>stuff, but these two ones were
>so dissimilar to me that I
>really tried and couldn't, so
>I switched back to attraction
>material.
Yea, you are missing something here, rapport shouldn't be putting things
harder. I don't have much advice in this, i haven'tfigure this out yet.
>
>Here was a high point. After
>some convo, everyone seemed to
>stall, the girls and my boys,
>and there was some silence
>that resulted a bit weird
>between seven people. Then I
>started throwing more c&f
>material, pretty much
>improvising on the spot,
>busting on the three girls and
>making them laugh, and the 8
>said "you'd be a pretty good
>stand-up comedian". I really
>felt flattered and could only
>respond with a "wooow, truly?
>thanks!".
>
>My wingman says I shouldn't be
>so much of an entertainer, but
>I think it's a bit better to
>err on the entertainer side
>than on the boring side. I
Definitely. But better still have fun, and be entertained with the girl. That
means, make jokes about the girl, show that you are having fun thanx to them.
That shows that the reason you are there with them is not that you like them,
but that you find them entertaining.
>think I will spice up the
>entertainer side with some
>mystery and sexual innuendos.
>We'll see. However, it's much
>more better than being AFC.
Yes. I was thinking about this the other day. Are you combing off as to nice?
the solution might not be to start been more of a jerk, but maybe start making
SOI, I think thats the jugglers way. Nice but aggressive.
>
>Ok, so later it became clear
>that we didn't have much in
>common with the two 7s, they
>were nice girls and all and
>treated us with education at
>all times, though the set
>seemed to go nowhere, so I
>told my wingman that we should
>eject *politely* so other guys
>could approach them and we
>could look for other girls as
>well. The other hot guy indeed
>was having a good time with
>the 8, so my wingman told him
>to close the deal so we could
>move on. The hot guy didn't
>know what to do and my wingman
>told him: "just tell her that
>you had a great time and would
>like to continue some other
>time, and tell her to give you
>her phone number". The other
>guy told exactly those words
>and kabooom! #-close for a guy
>who had not picked up girls
>for YEARS. He was so happy! I
>like when we make the world a
>better place XD
>
>Venue change to the last place
>(Cheyenne). Lots of girls
>around. A tipsy girl clashes
>with me and I bust her and her
>friend, my wingman and the
>other hot guy start also
>busting them. I start gaming
>the tipsy girl, she was not
>hot at all, overall a 5.5. She
>was chubby, and I can like
>chubby girls if they have
>pretty faces, but this one was
>not pretty either, but I said,
>whatever, practice is
>practice. I started c&f and
>she was playing along all the
>time, very playfully, it was
>going ok until I reached
>rapport, at that point I found
>out that I was already talking
>to the typical party girl, a
>hollow shell of a person. He
>was telling me that she liked
>all mainstream stuff, and she
>didn't like people that dress
>weird (remember guys, that I'm
>a headbanger and when I'm not
>sarging I dress in leather and
>spikes), she didn't like
>people that play computer
>games, stuff like that. I.e.
>everything I am as an
>alternative person, she
>disliked. Of course I didn't
>took it with bitterness, each
>time she said stuff like that
>I told her "oh, really? I am
>everything you don't like, we
>can't be together now" and did
>obviously fake backturns. She
>was loving it.
Its so easy to disqualify when you truly mean it...
>
>But in the end there was not
>much rapport I could get
>except eliciting the few
>values she had about her
>parties and having fun. Also
>this girl being so common and
>shallow was losing points in
>my eyes pretty quickly. But I
>was decided this time to go
>somewhere, so I decided to
>escalate kino instead, to see
>if I could get at least a kiss
>close to end the nite. I
>started touching her arm, the
>lower part of the back and
>stuff. Then when having
>increased kino and standing
>grabbing her by the waist and
>very close, I separated to see
>if her reciprocated. It was
>strange, because she was
>letting me escalate kino, and
>when there was a silence in
>the convo she was filling it,
>but she was not reciprocating
>kino so I didn't escalate
>more. I am not versed in kino
>escalation, so I know I could
>have escalated more, but don't
>know really how. I need to
>improve now this part of my
>game.
I'm sure you are not versed. I'm getting it now, and it something that would
have been completely alien to me just a year ago. Just a tip, kino your friends
more, and learn how it feels, thats the way to do it with a chick just from the
starts of the convo. Later I use sensual kino as a SOI.
>
>Then while I was losing time
>wondering what to do they
>turned on the lights: the club
>was closing, the night was
>over. We went all together to
>get cabs and kept talking and
>stuff but the "pickup" mood
>was already off, it was more
>like chilling out, but the
>girls seemed quite happy to
>exit the club with new,
>handsome friends.
>
>Insights:
>---------
>
>* Having a good wingman is a
>blessing from heavens. His
>game complements perfectly my
>game. We work as a team now,
>and I'm sure in the future
>we'll be the killer elite PUA
>special forces.
>* Having a good "default"
>opener is CRITICAL, at least
>at my skill level. I don't
>need to think, to ponder what
>I'll say. Just deliver the
>opener one more time, and as I
>know it works flawlessly, I am
>very confident while
>delivering it. And yes, some
>openers are better than
>others. "Shy girls" is gold!
>* Don't be afraid to do bold
>stuff (grabbing a girl's hand
>and pulling her in, escalating
>kino). You'll get away with it
>as long as you do it in a
>confident way.
Absolutely true. This has been said 100 times, and every time someone realizes
this its like the first time. You really haveto experience it to have it make
sense.
>* Throwaways are FUNDAMENTAL,
>are so basics as breathing is
>basic to live. The night I do
>throwaways, I perform quite
>well, the nights I don't, I'm
>in a much worse state.
>* Keep the group open helps a
>lot, so girls can face your
>team, making it easy for
>anyone to approach.
Sure, thats the warming up, even Mystery admits he does it.
>
>Points to Improve:
>------------------
>* Keep being a good
>entertainer, but spice it up
>with other mysterious / sexual
>traits.
Excellent
>* Escalate more kino, go for
>isolate / kiss-close /
>makeout, specifically not
>going to the rapport phase if
>the girls are shallow club
>girls. Perhaps ping for
>rapport, and if I see they are
>party girls forget entirely
>about trying rapport?
Be more kino. Kino is about comfort. About rapport, I'm still not in a position
to offer advice.
>* Keep talking to cool, witty,
>outgoing girls if I find them,
>for they are "rara avis" (rare
>birds) to find.
This sound a bit like BS to me...
>* Be more calm, less nervous
>in set. My wingman says I'm ok
>when I'm delivering but I
>gesticulate too much, and get
>nervous when there are
>prolonged silences, quickly
>plowing again with C&F. He
>says also sometimes my BL is
>bad, like I lean in and stuff,
>but that doesn't happen too
>much, generally my BL is good.
>* Talk slower, pace better. I
>tend to talk too fast when I
>get nervous. Note that it's
>not "too fast nerd AFC style",
>just too fast for a PUA. I'm
>ok at this point because girls
>like me, but would like to get
>a "very good" tonality and
>pace instead of a "normal"
>one.
>* I still have mind issues. My
>inner game» is not perfect. I
>have had troubles before and
>though my mind is much better
>now, when I'm around alphas I
>can see their inner state is
>much better than mine, they're
>much more confident in
>themselves. If an AFC (say, my
>old self) has a
>self-confidence of 3/10 and an
>alpha has 9/10, currently I
>have like 6/10 or something
>like that. It's improving,
>that's a given, but I'd like
>to "click it" (like Ryker_AUT
>did), though this has not
>still happened for me.
>
Yes, work on inner game». Be less theoretical and less arrogant. Assume things
as they are, build your own maps based on common sense and experience, do not
try to adapt reality to the maps here on mASF. You'll have a chance to refine
those maps, trust me.
>THE SINGLE MOST FUCKING
>IMPORTANT POINT OF THE NIGHT:
>------------------------------
>-----------------------
>
>For the last month and half or
>so, my game was shitty, my
>sarging nights were bland, I
>couldn't open, the few sets I
>opened I couldn't held, I
>thought I was losing my edge.
>One night of cool sarging and
>I'm back where I was, and I'd
>say even a notch further,
>since I can now get physical
>with girls shamelessly,
>pulling them around and
>escalating kino. This is like
>riding a bicycle, you can't
>really forget it.
>
>That's it. Comments are
>welcome, provided they are not
>of the form "you suck, don't
>do that", I'd like better
>"don't do X, better do Y in
>this way: Z". And don't point
>out that I suck because of my
>mistakes I already remarked,
>just ideas to improve on them,
>ok?
I'm so glad you are in such a great mood!
See you soon pal!.
>Wulfen, The Metal RAFC
>
>****************************
>We're blowing the frame...
>of your headless game!
>Edguy - The Headless Game
>****************************
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