mASF post by "Jimbo"
posted on: mASF forum: General Discussion newsgroup, October 10, 2004
Hey FinalD,
first the most important part of all this:
The Real Madrid is the best football club ever in the history of the human
kind!. Even the "pope" came to the Santiago Bernabeu and kissed its glorious
field while dressed in white colour, same colour Real Madrid uses when playing
at home!. LOL!.
Just fucking getting nuts here. :-P
>Very cute. Nice of you to be
>positive about my prospects --
>again, though, I notice the
>"cold reading" language (a
>portion
>of my previous post you
>snipped out), the statements
>that are
>more designed to make me feel
>good than to give me specific
>pointers.
I guess i've been "reading" you wrong in a few way, so what i thought was
enough specific advice in the context i was considering, was been understood by
you as a sort of cold reading shit not giving any idea on how to improve your
game. My fault. Because i made an image of you in my head where your emotional
communication with chicks was intense, and from what you say, it is not the
case.
I'll try to be more specific now.
>...[snip]...
>Several times you characterize
>women as "freezing up" when
>they
>get to a point of total
>annihilation by mister James
>Bond. I
>haven't experienced women
>doing this. I think you are
>misreading. You describe, for
>example, a situation in which
>I'm
>watching "James Bond" and the
>woman goes all frozen.
>
>> After a few moments she
>freezes out, reacts more
>quiet.
>> Seems like she is
>overwhelmed (or intimidated),
>and for you
>> it's clear he is in
>complete control of what is
>going to
>> happen. He will lead, she
>will follow.
>>
>> But then Mr. Bond does
>nothing.
>
>This "frozen" thing, I have
>seen, but not with myself.
Ok. I misunderstood your situation then.
In the context of a chick getting quite because of the overwhelming vibe of the
man in front of her, what i was saying seemed to be specific enough, as it was
a sort of "just be congruent with the image you are projecting from the
beginning, take charge on the situation and "push" for the isolation and fuck.
So maybe the first thing to do is improving the vibe you broadcast when
approaching a chick.
I'm going to presume you usually do it via indirect openers, opinion openers,
or commenting something in the environment. My advice is to try direct openers.
Something like commenting something you really like in her, then waiting for
her reaction, then if the reaction is good introducing yourself and engaging
in a neutral conversation until you can venue change.
For instance:
- "Sure that skirt makes justice to your shape, i like it". If she goes "Oh
thanks" or reacts in any positive way, then just smile and go like "Nice you
are open minded and friendly, because i like to know what's behind a beauty
face before introducing myself.... My name is 'D', 'Final D'", the wait again
for her response and go neutral like "so, are you from the area".
- "Hi, i like the way you move. You seem like you are levitate instead of
walking". Then apply the same formula as before.
- "I like you. I think i'd like to meet you". Then the same as before.
The point here is to present yourself as someone not afraid of "exposing" his
feelings to a rejection if there's a chance of meeting someone you like. As
someone who acts on his feelings, with no social or personal issues.
It's important to control the emotional state you are when approaching like
this. So first of all you have to do it only with women you really like. Don't
do it with any HB just because you want to try it. Do it only with those making
you feel "something" in your stomach. Use that feeling as a signal from your
body saying "Go!". You also need to feel confident and relaxed when doing this,
and at least slightly horny. Evoke those feelings if necessary. Project some
sexual states ala GWM.
Your purpose has to be to "filter" those chick you don't really want to PU
(those who could react negatively to such approach) from women who are
educated, friendly and with a self esteem strong enough as to be able to accept
a compliment with humour and an open mind.
Chances are at the beginning chicks react bad, mostly because you are going to
be communicating some insecurity in you BL. You are going to be exposed to
heavy rejection, even being laughed at your face, and you'll need all you will
and determination to keep doing it.
The aim of this shit is taking you to a point where you can say to yourself:
"I act on my feeling. Yes. SO WHAT???!!!".
You are just being congruent with the man you are. The attitude has to be
something like: "When I see something interesting in a woman, i go for it. I
don't need any indirect "excuse" to do it. It is her fucking prerogative to
react as a bitch or as a normal and healthy woman. And this is precisely what i
want to find out pretty soon when i meet HBs!".
Once you have learnt to keep that attitude of not giving a shit about how a
chick might react to you, come back to indirect approaches or whatever ones you
prefer.
The objective with what i say is to ensure you don't hide behind techniques.
You don't hide a "sensitive" ego besides an opinion opener or a C&F attitude.
You just send your ego to hell as long as it is restraining your chances of
acting in any particular way.
>Mostly,
>women treat me very
>businesslike and "normal." I
>get them
>entirely in their thinking
>mode. We can establish a
>comfortable
>shallow level of rapport in
>which they are free to be
>"men," in
>that they talk about jobs and
>school and other boring shit
>and
>just babble on. I get them
>very "angular" or
>"businesslike."
>There is NO emoting going on.
>And they don't really freeze
>up,
>either. I have seen them do
>that around other men, in
>cases
>where basically they are
>totally overwhelmed /
>intimidated /
>belittled. And yes, they do
>just run away scared and hope
>never
>to meet the guy again, and it
>would be really shitty to be
>that
>guy because he had ALL the
>game to close her and that is
>EXACTLY
>WHY he won't close her. I
>mean, what the fuck do you do
>in THAT
>situation? She's run off, he
>meets her again, and she's
>totally
>HOSTILE. Because she LIKES
>him. That's a tricky situ.
>
>Anyway, that's not me. Women
>don't really get paranoid, or
>run
>off, or get hostile. They get
>masculine. Very
>organizational.
>They like flop things into
>folders on their desks, and
>write out
>file labels, and type a letter
>to the boss, and make a phone
>call, and ask the waiter for a
>pen, and tell me about walking
>their dog in a dispassionate
>sort of "so then he shit on
>the
>sidewalk so we were able to go
>home."
Now this is your problem!.
Chicks are adjusting to a rational and "cold" frame when dealing with you.
Guess why. Probably because you are presenting precisely that frame to them so
they just adapt to it.
I bet they are not usually like that. Only when around you. Why?. They just
adopt the "role" more suitable with the frame you present to them.
You said it: "There is NO emoting going on".
This is equal as saying "my communication with women is not emotional".
That's what you need to work in: vibing the emotional part of yourself.
How?. Begin projecting some emotions when approaching. Try to feel curious,
intrigued, and willing to meet the person in front of you. Try to feel
"sexual", confident, relaxed. And then interact with them with all this feeling
running in your veins. Flirtation has to come from this funny, intriguing and
sexy feelings. Not from a pre-canned way of saying things.
This means you are going to expose your heart to some bitches until you learn
to select the best targets for you, until you perceive the right "spark" some
women carry with them (ala Vince way). Well, do it.
Show your passions to them. Not just by saying "I love observing the sky", but
describing the feeling you experience when do it that while in real time
evoking them so she can "feel" them flowing from you.
>I'm pretty good at
>"turning" the subject to
>things they are emotional
>about, but
>they IN GENERAL tend toward
>the "rational" near me, which
>pisses
>me off. Gets them VERY
>non-feminine.
Then you are not good at "turning" the subject to things they are emotional.
You maybe are good in bringing up topics they say they are emotional about in a
way it looks fluent with the current conversation, but you are just bringing up
this topics in a way they don't feel emotional when talking with you. That's
not the way of doing so.
For instance, if a woman tell me she loves scuba-diving, i don't bring the
topic just saying "the other day i made a few immersions with friends...." then
just describing what we did, with who, and things like that. I usually go: "you
know what i like the most about scuba-diving?.... that feeling of...X.." then
describe the feelings X as i experience it (or the feelings i guess i'd have in
that case), and evoking myself that feeling so i can "broadcast" it in a
non-verbal way. Sometimes i even provoke my hair stood on end when i describe
something, or the feeling of getting close to tears, or intense sexual desire,
or immense curiosity and interest in what she is saying (focus is very very
very flattering), or whatever.
IOW, you have to go emotional FIRST if you want them to get emotional.
> But they don't
>"freeze" or
>run away. In fact, if anything
>they open up and tell me their
>secrets. Their office secrets,
>about where they hide their
>extra
>staples and how many paper
>clips they used today. Yawn.
Your fault IMO. You don't lead the interaction to emotional arenas, therefore
there are not emotional subjects on it.
>Now, on to the "power to
>influence." Only in the right
>settings.
>I don't "have" that power, but
>I have game sometimes when and
>if
>the logistics are right. IF my
>friend organizes a house party
>AND IF I get to give tarot
>readings and IF the hot girls
>aren't
>drunk by the time they get to
>the front of the line and IF
>they
>... blah blah blah. I don't
>have enough control to BE ABLE
>to do
>this regularly. It's just one
>situation where "natural"
>talent
>can be used, if the situation
>is totally right. I don't like
>that problem, in that it all
>seems to be out of my control.
>
>You're suggesting "just go
>influence" right away rather
>than
>waiting. But really with the
>Tarot deck I'm not
>"influencing." I
>don't tell them (by hints and
>implications, or by words)
>"You
>will now feel hot / angry /
>beautiful / spastic / free."
>Rather,
>I"m showing them that I am
>"clued in" to their deeper
>emotions.
>It isn't about the fact that I
>CONTROL their emotions, it's
>just
>about the fact that I SEE them
>at all. They like that, it
>makes
>me a "good listener" and also
>somehow "intuitive," but it
>doesn't mean I can CAUSE them
>to feel horny the next time I
>see
>them. In fact, it generally
>means I cause them to feel
>like they
>want another Tarot reading.
1.- Are you using that Tarot technique as a way of hiding the real reason you
are doing that to them?. IOW; are you hiding your sexuality behind that (or any
other) technique?.
2.- That technique may be hood for eliciting some questions they feel
passionate about. Once you find one, evoke the feelings involved and describe
the process of feeling that. Engage in an emotional conversation, put the
fucking cards in your pocket, and keep moving in the direction you want.
>And another. It gets old,
>having to
>talk so much, especially when
>there's a line-up of AFCs and
>UGs
>waiting to have their cards
>read. "OK, you, you're going
>to be a
>spinster all your life. Yup,
>it's in the cards. NEXT! OK,
>you,
>you need to masturbate more,
>go do it nowNEXTandyou, blah
>blah"
You are engaging that Tarot trick in a too normal, casual, entertainment, cold
way. It should be taken as something personal about her you can "read", this
means at least semi-isolation, where the other lamers can't get in the queue.
You have to present your "tricks" as something funny yet "genuine" you want to
present to them, not to all fucking female population, so that attitude brings
some role playing intrigue into the frame, which is good.
>So, I'm not really sure it's
>fair of you to relate the
>Tarot
>thing to the rest of your
>thesis. Your thesis is very
>friendly,
>thank you, the idea that I"m
>totally utterly desirable and
>the
>ONLY thing missing from my
>game is the final willingness
>to
>close. But I've really found
>that things aren't that
>simple.
>I've never been unwilling to
>close, and also have never
>experienced that 'frozen up'
>chick phenomenon you discuss.
What you are maybe doing is protecting your ego to being exposed to some shame.
The shame of being rejected when you show some "emotions", or maybe the shame
of being perceived as "weird" or silly because you engage your deep emotions
into conversations before the required conditions has been reached under social
conventions.
Get emotional!.
>But what the fuck do you know,
>you root for Bent Beckham and
>all
>his Posh money over at
>Santiago Bubbleboy. Get a real
>team, one
>that does it with ...
>something other than money ...
Santiago Bubbleboy???!!!..... sacrilege!!!.
LOL!. ;-)
>...[snip]...
>You realize, I'm sure, that
>the left-right-nipple example
>was
>deliberately silly.
Of course bro!. ;-)
> No, it
>wasn't the LOGIC that was the
>problem
>in that situation. Those guys
>actually hadn't necessarily
>seen
>me with her at all, they'd
>just heard me moaning about
>the fact
>that she wanted to see me all
>the time but didn't want to
>kiss
>me. Like, she loved basking in
>my presence and being lectured
>by
>me, as though I were some
>goddamned professor. I tried
>the take-
>away with that particular
>chick (geez, it's been a long
>time, I
>hardly remember the specifics)
>and all that got me was that
>she
>forgot that she'd ever been
>infatuated with me. Wrong time
>to
>take-away, I guess ... Anyway,
>since the male friends were
>saying those things mostly as
>"dumb AFCs who didn't have any
>other advice to give," I was
>only making the point that
>they
>didn't really have anything
>worthwhile to say but were
>just
>complicating the matter by
>TRYING to act like it was "so
>simple."
I understand. It was not the way they perceive you interaction with chicks but
their AFCness. I didn't get it.
Anyway, my impression about you was wrong. Hope this time i'm understanding
your case better.
>As I pretty much
>said, when I grabbed her hand
>and
>pulled her toward my
>apartment, she stopped and
>said "No I have
>to go home." Consistently. To
>the point that I got fed up
>and
>rejected her, told her we
>wouldn't see each other any
>more, and
>did not see her any more. It
>wasn't a major painful episode
>in
>my life or anything, not like
>I really care; but the point
>remains that "just fuck her"
>WILL NOT WORK with an
>unwilling
>partner unless you're willing
>to rape her. You have to MAKE
>HER
>WILLING first.
Right. This is where communicating in the proper way fits.
First is important to give a good first impression, not giving a shit about
"risking" your feeling at some extend, as in my approaches examples. Then, once
the frame is set, interacting with congruency, which means you have to get more
emotional at the right time.
BTW, i believe some patterns from TFM are good as ways of expressing feeling
while evoking them. IC patters, Discovery Channel, and some others, are just
examples of how to describe feelings. Adapt them to the way you talk and your
real experiences, and evoke the corresponding feeling when talking that way. It
will have an impact for sure.
>So, I got your points about
>lots of things, thanks for the
>clarifications and all. And I
>really like two or three
>things
>that have come of this
>conversation
>
>-- first, that the "frame" is
>already out there, of her
>LOOKING
>for James Bond. You don't have
>to work really hard to
>convince
>girls who are out at a club
>that they should stop
>rejecting men,
>or that you are worthy of
>their attention because you
>approached, or even worry
>about approaching as a
>supplicatory
>gesture. Rather than thinking
>in terms of them having to be
>"turned around" from rejecting
>you, think in terms of the
>fact
>that they have a set of
>criteria which you DO fulfill,
>and all
>you have to do is set them
>free from the crowd of AFCs
>out there
>and let them FINALLY have the
>freedom to interact with a
>cool
>guy. This is more simply put,
>as the idea that you can just
>"plug in" to the PROPER part
>of the frame that is ALREADY
>going
>on, rather than having to try
>to CHANGE their frame or
>somehow
>invite them into your own.
Right. Now the only thing you need to understand regarding this is you need to
bring some "emotions" from the very beginning. Such curiosity about what's
behind that beauty face. You can even express it this way, literally. "You are
incredibly good-looking. I'm curious about what kind of woman is behind that
pretty face".
Bring feeling into interactions. Evoke the proper emotional state under the
current circumstances (street, club, parties, etc).
>-- second, that perhaps I am
>"overwhelming" or
>"intimidating." I
>don't mean to be, but I know a
>large number of people who
>call
>me "arrogant," so there must
>be something to it. I am tired
>of
>fighting this characteristic,
>though. I first heard about it
>when I was 20 years old. I
>remember how horrified I was
>to
>realize that a whole set of
>interpretations of myself were
>valid, and consistent among
>most of my friends,
>interpretations
>I'd never EVER even thought
>of. And since then I have'nt
>been
>able to change them, even
>though I've worked against
>them a lot
>of the time. So I guess I
>might as well just accept it
>and work
>with it instead. Except, of
>course, for the fact that "the
>definition of insanity is
>doing the same thing over and
>over and
>expecting a different result,"
>and since I've been arrogant
>and
>NOT laid over and over, why
>should I continue to cling to
>arrogance? I just don't know
>HOW to stop being arrogant. I
>don't
>even know why people THINK I'm
>arrogant. After they get to
>know
>me, they always say, "I used
>to think you're arrogant, when
>I
>first met you. But now I
>don't." And that's about as
>much
>explanation as I can get.
High IQ and high intellectual conversations are perceived as overwhelming,
intimidating, and very arrogant from many people. Specially if you are not
giving clues on the feelings you are experiencing during conversation. Why?.
Because when someone does not perceive your feelings when you speak with them,
they interpret "at an emotional non-conscious level) that you just give a shit
about them. And this, while giving "intellectual lessons" on subject A, B, and
Z, is perceived as very arrogant. You fucking "know-it-all" bitch!. ;-)
To fix this try to communicate more in the way they communicate. Get down to
their level. Present your ideas as something you are thinking about lately, as
a "yet to get conclusion" matters, or as questions, not as the ultimate
conclusion of a high IQ brain who knows what is needed to be known on the
subject. Include descriptions of the feelings involved.
For instance, when talking about how her dog shits, lead the conversation about
the feeling involved in taking care of your pet, the way caressing your dog
relax you, how what they like the most in the world is to be caressed and
loved, and things like that. Get into emotional questions showing your own
feeling running under your skin.
>...[snip]...
>The reason I went from my
>idea, to "asthma" or
>"anorexia" wasn't
>to say women are fucked up. It
>was to say that HBs WHO ARE
>NOT
>ON IBIZA are fucked up. The
>anorexia thing (them being
>"broken"
>about sexuality) is what is
>FORCED upon them in "normal"
>life in
>the West. It's a
>socio-cultural thing, that
>doesn't allow them
>to express true joy in life. I
>wasn't saying they're "bad" or
>"dysfunctional" people, as
>much as, SOCIETY itself is the
>dysfunctional thing because
>it's so anti-sexual.
Yes, but your misogyny is yet impregnating your ideas on PU. I believe you have
to work on that too.
>So, I
>really
>agree with your conclusions
>above, about how sexual most
>people
>would be if they could simply
>free themselves in order to do
>it.
>We're all Raelians at heart!
>:) It's just, I was expressing
>it
>in the opposite manner --
>people want to fuck but don't,
>because
>they're constrained somehow;
>whereas you were saying --
>people
>want to fuck, and that means
>they aren't naturally
>constrained.
>See how it is the same thing?
>;)
Yeap.
Then in practical terms we only have to create opportunities for women to be
able to get out of that social restriction when they are with us. Re-framing
things as they can reach "the natural woman" inside of then. And this only can
be done in one way:
1.- Using our emotional brain to communicate with them.
2.- Using our rational brain to create the circumstances favorable for them
getting along with the flow, favouring "it just happened" situations.
Double seduction we might call it. One for the rational part of a woman,
another for the emotional part of said woman. And they both have to be
implemented simultaneously.
>Well, this has been
>delightful. But it hasn't been
>productive
>for me. If you can say three
>rather short sentences about
>what
>exactly you recommend that I
>*DO* to improve my close-rate,
>I'll
>promise to follow them for
>three months. But I do'nt
>really have
>any advice except "go for it,
>man!" Which is utterly
>useless, as
>my example about the girl who
>wouldn't fuck me (above, "Why
>don't you just fuck her!?")
>explains. If she's unwilling,
>you're
>breaking the law by "going for
>it." What I need is three
>short
>sentences on how to MAKE HER
>WILLING.
1.- Expose your feeling a bit (or a lot) by being direct from the very first
moment. As in the approaches examples i've given you.
2.- Get emotional while interacting with women. If you want them to feel
something, evoke that feeling and feel it yourself FIRST. Then lead the
conversation in a way you give descriptions on how it is to feel those feelings
(ala SS way for instance), and avoid negative or cold as hell topics.
3.- Feel sexual from the very beginning and as you increase your sexual state
once you have her getting into emotional communication, intensify your kino and
try venue changes and isolation. GWM explains this perfectly.
To be more specific would require to write a whole essay. I'll do it as soon i
have more spare time (not easy BTW).
Best regards.
Jimbo
|
