mASF post by "Wulfen"
posted on: mASF forum: Field Reports Discussion, April 4, 2005Thanks for the feedback guys! It's much appreciated. I'll reply to everyone in
this post:
tntigerpua:
> I'll try that shy girls opener! I think that's something I > have been
missing and causing me to be an excuser most of > the time. It sounds perfect
for *any* situation =)
I suppose once you're a PUA you don't really need those, but in my situation,
when I see a set and can't think quickly of a contextual opener, I don't know
what to say and end up using that as an excuse to not approach. At this stage,
everything that motivates me to approach is very useful.
ulises19:
> I live close to Madrid, what's your email guys? We can
> hang out and have some more fun (no kissing on the first
> date ok? =P)
No kissing? Ooh but you know you want it so much...!
You can catch me at wulfen_asf(at)hotmail(dot)com, both in mail and messenger.
ijjjji:
> Wulfen dude...
> You are screwed up! Why are you so concerned with all the
> scenery?? When I roll in, I see the girl and everything
> else becomes a blur.
> Heard the expression 'Im in my own world' ?
> Imagine a big bubble around yourself.. imagine that you
> are the king, the president, the judge and GOD in side
> this bubble. IGNORE everything outside the bubble. Not so
> hard! Try it!
Hmm, i can try this, I think it's an useful frame, but I think I am not yet at
the level in which I can abstract everything and get in "autopilot". I need to
concentrate in the little details like my BL and tonality, to avoid speaking
fast and leaning in.
I don't know if that's what you are referring to, if you mean that I pay much
attention to the environment, well, atm I try to have some tactical advantage
(group open to the exterior, moving towards the spots where there are more
girls nearby, etc).
I try to have the frame that "I'm the shit", though, as you say, I'm screwed
up. I thought I was very self-confident but I think I still have some mind
issues, as I said in the FR. I need to sort those, but that are partly out of
the scope of seduction.
It's the old "confidence from improving skills" versus "clicking it". At the
moment I have still some shit in my life and can't "click it"... yet. I hold
some negative views. Indeed, *this* is a negative view. So yup, you're quite
right.
On 4/4/05 10:03:00 AM, lost_and_found wrote:
>On 4/4/05 8:48:00 AM, Wulfen wrote:
>
>Yea, I'm glad they helped you. They
>where not some random advice, its stuff
>I did notice about you guys in field, so
>I had to make an impact. What made the
>trick is that you actually took the
>advice that is more than what 90% of the
>people are willing to do, most will just
>rationalize their behaviour and keep
>doing it their way. Good for you!
I must say that though I'm still at the beginning of the road, that I like this
trait of mine. Indeed at some level everyone that found fastseduction.com and
didn't dismiss it as gibberish bullshit is someone who is able to rethink his
bases of thoughts and reshape himself.
Most people don't acept advice, never. And also most people are ready to give
bullshit advice on the spot (perhaps that's why people don't accept advice,
because usually it's bullshit). People tend to backwards rationalize their
ways, and as such they'll never improve.
I'll put it in capitals:
THE SINGLE BEST ADVICE IN ASF IS "DROP THE EGO"
If only because it opens the gates to a lot more useful advices that you'd have
rejected because of your ego.
>He still has to open up a little, hes
>thinking a bit to much and doing a bit
>to little. Sometimes I think ASF has
>given him some hi-tech excuses for
>inaction.
Also, he doesn't need to do anything at all, since the moment I introduce girls
to him, he's got attraction for free. For me it's ok since the more I open the
more I learn. If I were him I'd learn to open if only to learn the skill
anyways.
>Good good good. Leave the interaction
>there, that set can be easily reopen for
>social proof.
I suppose it's the same all around the world, but in case is not, here in Spain
reopening a set is way easier than opening them and persisting in the first
place. I.e. instead of open, persist: open, c&f, fluff talk, leave, after some
time open again and you're sooo "in". It's one of the first things I learnt
about the game.
>>Wulfen: you look like you are
>>shy girls
>>HBs: yes, YES, WE'RE TOO
>>SHY!!!
>
>Excellent. BTW, good opener, I use that
>kind of stuff very often, its dumb as
>shit but set a good teasing fun frame.
It's a great opener, and I'm starting now to see how openers work. For instance
"female opinion" works because you are interested in something other than her
physical appearance. As Ratbert says: "I'm dazzled, noone asked my opinion
before".
"Shy girls" is almost perfect because in so few words you are:
- Slightly negging them, but based on their personality, not on their
appearance.
- ...provoking them to qualify to you
- ...which immediately makes you the PRIZE
- also, you are implying that you are NOT a shy boy
- ...because of words and delivery
- and that you are a fun person
- ...because it's simple and dull, like playing
- ...and because you are reversing society roles (the girls that not approach
guys are shy)
>Good. However try to hold that set
>longer for yourself. One of them shows
>more interest and you introduced your
>wing to divide and isolate. It was to
>soon, reciprocate interest to the get by
>given her more kino, maybe a sideways
>hug _while talking to the other_ that
>will make both comfortable. Hold that
>fucking set alone by default.
Roger that. Next time I'll try to hold the set about on my own as long as
possible. When is a good time to call the team?
>>She was doubtless
>>the coolest and most
>>intelligent girl I met that
>>night, for instance she even
>>knew German - which is cool
>>because very few spanish
>>people know that language -
>>and that implies culture, a
>>background different from the
>>rest of the sheep, and was
>
>Who are you calling sheep?
Ok, you are right here, I am pretty negative with this. I've always been an
elitist and it's hard to come out of this.
But OTOH it's clear that, as well as there are hot babes and ugly babes, there
are cool babes and boring babes, there are alternative babes and there are
mainstream babes. I'd prefer to hang around cool, alternative babes when
possible.
>No its not. Its probably saying "damn my
>wing is hotter than I am, I hate him, I
>hate the chick", and that sort of toxic
>crap. Maybe its not, but it probably is,
>try to be aware of it if its the case.
Maybe is. You know, I don't have my looks in much regards. And you've seen pics
of me before, and know how I look now that I am fit and dress well. Still, a
part of me sees me as ugly.
I'm around a 7 in looks now (used to be a 5.5 maybe long ago). When I'm alone
and I walk by the street or on the subway, girls throw me IOIs all around. But
when I'm with my wingman he eclipsates me. I don't exist. And the "I'm ugly"
thoughts come back to haunt me.
The most noticeable thing is that in set -the sets I don't open and hold on my
own for a while-, automatically the girls do the sharing looks-based and I
always get the ugly one. (Another reason to open sets on my own). Seen this
time and time again also hits me.
However, I've noticed that as my game improves, I can game hotter girls, and
even with my wingman around I can be the center of attention. So one possible
reframe to this is: "I will be so attractive and charming that girls will
prefer me over other guys' looks". Another possible reframing is "Hot guys are
hot but it's not their merit since they were born that way, I will be hotter
than them for the girls with my wits and my effort, which has more merit".
As you see I'm trying to reframe positively here, but I need to put together
all the pieces of the puzzle yet.
>Actually in the long run girl care less
>about physical appearance than we do.
Ok, but in the clubs physical appearance rules. I will open also in daytime,
because I want to see if my game has more effect in less noisy, ADD
environments. Yesterday I grabbed my balls together and approached at my gym,
in front of my coworkers. I thought it was gonna be harder but it was fun.
>Now you are learning, awesome. Have you
>already began to rehearse in your mind
>the interaction?
Yes! Dammit she was interested, and she was also interested in getting guys for
her friends. She was there to PICK UP.
>>You have to
>kiss a girl on the cheek?(very common in
>Spain) don't lean to her and kiss, not
>that this show neediness, its a social
>convention, but pull the girl into you
>by the waist and then kiss her.
You gotta show me this in-field, man. Looks very promising. It's a quick
display of alphaness that you can show the very moment you're introduced.
>>Wulfen: hmm I dunno, they are
>>too hot for me
>>Wingman: naaah, it's the
>>lights (implying they are not
>>too hot, but look so because
>>it's dark)
>
>That was darkvidator, right? He should
>open more and not lower them so much.
I think here you miss the point. He was lowering their value for me, to
motivate me to approach. He said it in the tone of "naah, you can safely
approach those".
Though I agree with you that he has a very high bar. In the end he liked the
smallest of them (she was quite cute). Hmm, now that I think of it, it's
another proof that the more you are having fun with a person the more you like
it even if its initial impression based on appearance is not impressive.
>
>Yea, you are missing something here,
>rapport shouldn't be putting things
>harder. I don't have much advice in
>this, i haven't figured this out yet.
Problem is I find hard to get rapport with girls that are too different to me.
Well I think everyone has this problem :)
>Definitely. But better still have fun,
>and be entertained with the girl. That
>means, make jokes about the girl, show
>that you are having fun thanx to them.
As you know I do this much, my humour is based mainly on slightly negging
someone in a funny way and then say stuff like "but I love you anyways" and hug
them. I do this with girls and guys alike.
>Yes. I was thinking about this the other
>day. Are you combing off as to nice? the
>solution might not be to start been more
>of a jerk, but maybe start making SOI, I
>think thats the jugglers way. Nice but
>aggressive.
I *am* coming off as too nice. I need to fix this. Will read again juggler's
post compilation. Are there good ways to do SOIs?
>>I told her "oh, really? I am
>>everything you don't like, we
>>can't be together now" and did
>>obviously fake backturns. She
>>was loving it.
>
>Its so easy to disqualify when you truly
>mean it...
This fake neggings and backturns worked so well the few times I've used them
that I want to find a way to integrate it as standard in my game. The also fit
nicely with the "shy girls" philosophy as describing above.
At the beginning of learning I tried once to shout "I HATE YOU" to three girls
(read it here in mASF). To my surprise one of them started immediately
qualifying.
Girls must be so bored of guys kissing their asses that these stuff comes to
them as fresh water.
>> I am not versed in kino
>>escalation, so I know I could
>>have escalated more, but don't
>>know really how. I need to
>>improve now this part of my
>>game.
>
>I'm sure you are not versed. I'm getting
>it now, and it something that would have
>been completely alien to me just a year
>ago. Just a tip, kino your friends more,
>and learn how it feels, thats the way to
>do it with a chick just from the starts
>of the convo. Later I use sensual kino
>as a SOI.
OK, I will observe you in field to see how you do this, I can boldly caress her
arm, grab her arm, put the hand in her lower back and then grab her around the
waist. But I'm not sure what to do then.
Also, Sirducer said in a thread in general to refrain from kino since some
girls might not like it. I dunno, I've seen you using kino and it seemed to
work, and so far no girl that I was properly gaming (she laughing and that) has
ever refused kino. In fact they don't look to my hands or move away, they just
keep the convo going. But they don't reciprocate either.
>>* Don't be afraid to do bold
>>stuff (grabbing a girl's hand
>>and pulling her in, escalating
>>kino). You'll get away with it
>>as long as you do it in a
>>confident way.
>
>Absolutely true. This has been said 100
>times, and every time someone realizes
>this its like the first time. You really
>haveto experience it to have it make
>sense.
The little switches that "click" and then you never forget about them. I
suppose that once I have switched a number of them, the whole me will "click"
and my success will snowball.
In fact, we could make a list of "clicks", stuff that you can read and read and
read but you won't get ingrained until you see it for yourself:
- fear of approaching girls is irrational a.k.a. girls are HAPPY that cool guys
approach them.
- hotties are not inaccessible. You'll find that some hotties are indeed much
friendlier than normal or ugly girls, which have a negative view of the world.
- girls like to be touched, they crave human contact.
- you can get away with any bold stuff if done in a confident way.
- girls love sex and will have sex with you if you manage to properly seduce
them.
>Be more kino. Kino is about comfort.
>About rapport, I'm still not in a
>position to offer advice.
After the initial attraction phase, how do you proceed to the point you are
ready to kiss close the girl? I can't and don't want to be spurting out
cock&funny stuff for half an hour and then go for the tonguedown.
Thanks for the input mates! Stay tuned for the next Lupine Field Report.
Wulfen, The Metal RAFC
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