mASF post by "Harmless"
posted on: mASF forum: General Discussion newsgroup, January 1, 2005Hey IN10SE!
On 1/23/05 12:58:00 PM, IN10SE wrote:
>On 1/22/05 8:31:00 PM, Wesmantooth
>wrote:
>>Hey guys,
>>
>>I need some knowledge from the
>>more experienced guys.
Looks like IN10SE is doing a good job, but there are some things I'd like to
add.
>>Everything I've read so far
>>advises waiting until the
>>chick seeks Rapport before you
>>do. I've written out a fairly
>>basic structure which I try
>>and use most nights I go out.
>
>I wouldn't start out by seeking Rapport
>- thats what most guys try to do.
Agreed. In fact, seeking Rapport actively reduces your ability to build
attraction. You should be *breaking* rapport to build attraction. In fact, IMO
the only time you build rapport is if her lack of rapport is a barrier to
escalation. In other words, if you sense that she is not ready to isolate with
you because there isn't enough comfort, then build comfort so you can isolate.
Don't just build comfort because "I'm supposed to build comfort."
>I would demonstrate value first.
>
>Then draw her in through being
>interesting, intriguing, demonstrating
>that you understand her, evoking strong
>emotions in her...
This is crucial. In order for her to seek rapport, you must demonstrate those
qualities which would make her want rapport with you. If she doesn't want to
get to know you... she won't seek rapport. Obvious, right?
Another thing that is crucial is to show her that you already have rapport with
her. Show her that you know all about her. This is the reasoning behind
Gunwitch's "Verbal Rapport Assumption". Act like you know her and she will feel
a "rapport gap" and seek rapport with you. Act like you're trying to gain
rapport and she will not feel as if she needs to seek rapport. It's the
difference between "He knows all about me but I don't know him" and "He is
trying to get to know me but he seems like just another guy". Which scenario
would force her to seek rapport?
>I will tend to indirectly seek rapport -
>in that while I'm learning about her
>through things like the cube, cold
>reading (etc.) I'll say things like -
>"Hmmm, you're pretty cool, I guess we
>can hang out"
This is another way of trying to show her the same thing.
>So it's about me qualifying her. A
>friend of mine Swinggcat, is a master at
>this approach. It's about making them
>feel like they're jumping through YOUR
>hoops.
I don't say things like "Hmmm, you're pretty cool..." I know that it works for
other people, but it's not my style. I never "indirectly seek rapport". What I
do is demonstrate that I already know them... but that they don't know me at
all. Like I said, *this* is what makes them seek rapport.
>An approach that I'll use now is where I
>reverse the game entirely, and I make
>the woman aware that she's chosen ME,
>because when your CHOSEN by a woman it's
>an entirely different game. - so much
>easier. And even if they didn't
>initially choose me, I have methods and
>reframes that make them think they HAVE.
>
>I'll say it again, being CHOSEN (or
>reframing it so that that is the
>perception) by a woman is NEXT LEVEL
>game and stuff that I cover in my book.
I do a lot of the same thing, IN10SE, but I'd love to see your methods for
making them think they've chosen you. I say things like "You've been thinking
about me since we met." or "The way you're looking at me right now... It's like
I know exactly what you're thinking. You're so bad!"
This also goes back to the active disqualification and disvalidation: "I don't
like you." and such. Saying this at the right time will make her literally
CHASE you. As in across the room.
>And I see you found my "hook points"
>post - good stuff. I got the initial
>concept from another friend of mine
>(Style), and expanded it to all aspects
>of the game.
>Attraction hook point is where they come
>to the self realization that they are
>attracted to you. If I'm not getting
>past that attraction hook point
>initially, I'll start talking about
>attraction, until by sheer NLP and self
>association, and evoking the state of
>attraction (linking it to myself) I get
>them past that point... then I'll
>quickly shift to comfort/rapport through
>interactive value demonstrations. (The
>cube, cold reading, etc...) or actually
>elicit and evoke the state of comfort by
>talking about relationships... (Not in
>relation to HER per se, but just in
>general)
>
>>2) The comfort hook point - reduce
>>personal space, verbal connection, helps
>>YOU anti-CB her friends, puppy dogs
>>around you, accepts your isolation or
>>OFFERS to isolate you / extraction, etc.
>># closed?
>
>This is just the ability to put them at
>ease. And they'll actually say to me, "I
>feel so comfortable with you..." Then I
>know I'm past that hook point.
>
>Again hook points are the best times to
>ISOLATE or change VENUES.
>
>>
>>3) The seduction hook point - really
>>starts to kino you, verbal SOIs, sexual
>>state...can be pre/post make out.
>
>This is when you're alone at your/her
>place, making out on the couch and she
>does something overt like grabs your
>crotch or says, "Let's go to the
>bedroom" - then you know its ON.
It seems to me like there is an extra hook point in here: The "comfort hook
point"? We've talked about this before, and all I really see is two hook
points: Attraction and Escalation.
The Attraction hook point is when she is so attracted to you that she would
rather have you stay than go, when she starts to chase you, etc. This is when
you can start using take-aways and backturns and hard disqualifiers and active
disinterest and she will actively try to pull you back into set with her
because she is *hooked*.
The Escalation hook point is when it's time to extract to a seduction location
and escalate. When she is "ready". This is the moment when you can say, "Let's
go," and walk to your car.
I don't see rapport and C/T as a seperate phase that needs a seperate hook
point.
>>Most of my sets run for about five to
>>ten minutes. I'm having fun and the
>>majority of the time, so are the girls.
>>I can see their Buying Temperature
>>rising but they NEVER seek Rapport with
>>me.
Are your sets so short because you get blown out or because you eject? Are you
settling for a #close?
>>I think I can read bodylanguage
>>pretty well, working in a picture
>>theatre for six years constantly serving
>>customers did this for me I suppose. The
>>girls always seem to be enjoying
>>themselves, and it's like I made their
>>night by coming and speaking to them.
>>But they don't seek Rapport.
>>
>>So this got me to thinking that maybe
>>instead of waiting for them to seek
>>Rapport just keep an eye on Buying
>>Temperature and Venue Change or Isolate
>>accordingly.
It sounds like you're doing a lot of routines and providing them with a lot of
stimulation but never actually connecting to these girls emotionally or
physically or forcing them to react to you.
It is extremely important to say and do things that actually involve and affect
the girl. Like kino. Like cold-reads. Things that actually force her to have an
emotional response to you.
The best way I've found is by telling the girls about themselves. Showing them
that you know 'all about them'. And forcing them to try to figure out whether
you like what you've found out.
So in response to qualifying girls: We're not actually qualifying them when we
say, "So can you cook?" What we're doing is giving them a landmark by which
they can figure out if they are qualified.
Sometimes it's better to subcommunicate that you already know what they're
about and then *disqualify* them and make them work for your approval.
Then they will start seeking rapport.
Hope this helps.
Harmless
|
