mASF post by "BigDog"
posted on: mASF forum: General Discussion newsgroup, August 8, 2004
Chaco,
Great post, man! I have run into this a lot myself and have seen it happen to
my wing. I have run literally hundreds of sets, and my wing is into the
thousands category! I cut and pasted this and e-mailed it to myself, so that it
doesn't get "cut off," at the margins. I'm writing stories today, so that I can
use them TONIGHT!
I agree to a certain extent with what iijjjjii said, also. The difference as I
see it has to do with getting past the social hook point, and then you can
proceed like he recommends, or having such a strong frame (think DHV related to
massive social proof, model looks, and/or peacock type of clothing style), that
they feel compelled to keep the conversation going and moving the pick up
forward.
One of the biggest problems we run into, and it happened last night on several
sets, is that the music is so LOUD, that short of screaming directly into a
girl's ear when opening the set, they cannot hear you! We have good projection,
so that's not the problem. If you get close enough to talk into her ear early
on, you are leaning in (aka, pecking), which will get you blown out as fast as
stalling. Also, she has no reason to mini-isolate at this stage, so that won't
work, either! Maybe I'll post in general and ask for suggestions on how to
overcome this problem.
BigDog
On 8/17/04 10:57:00 PM, Chaco wrote:
>This is something I posted on the DC
>lair site. A number of guys still seem
>to stall out quickly due to a lack to
>things to say. So I wrote this to
>explain the importance of having
>routines. I don't pretend this is new
>break through stuff, just something that
>might be helpful for new guys or guys
>with this sticking point.
>
>Hey guys...as I have been sarging with
>more liar guys lately, I have been
>seeing some patterns and occasionally I
>am inspired to post on things I see.
>First a disclaimer, my game is only
>so-so. I don't consider myself "good"
>yet. But I can do some basic things
>solidly.
>
>One of those things that I seem to do
>pretty well is to open and get past the
>social hook point. So based on my
>personal sarging experience and
>observations of other, there is a point
>I want to make: guys, you must have
>routines. Let me repeat, you MUST have
>routines. It's not an option, it's a
>requirment.
>
>This is not a new observation. I have
>read the same from Toecutter, Juggler
>and TD. But here is my 2c.
>
>First, what is a "routine"? A routine
>does not have to be some high energy
>canned story that TD invented and that
>you memorize, which some people assume
>when the term is used. A routine as I
>define it is simply a story you tell
>over and over from set to set because
>you know it consistently helps the
>sarge. It can be a routine that gets
>a good laugh 90% of the time you use it.
>It can be a routine you know will hook
>the interest of the girls and get them
>talking. It can be a fun game to play
>keeps things interesting. It can be a
>story or personality test that builds
>some rapport or connection.
>And yes, it can be a story that "pumps
>buying temp."
>
>Whatever it is, you use it because it
>has a good effect on the sarge based on
>its having proven itself over and over
>in real live sets. You must have these,
>and you must have lots of them.
>
>Why are these necessary? As many others
>have pointed out, though I first read
>this from Juggler, the beginning of a
>sarge, before you are past the social
>hook point, the girl is not yet invested
>in you staying. So she will not
>contribute much energy to the
>interaction. Her "default" is to go back
>to her friends, or their default is to
>resume talking to each other. You can
>expect to do
>80% of the talking.
>
>TD's obersvation that girls are stimulus
>jukies at night is very true. Girls in
>bars/clubs have many other fun options
>besides talking to you. They can talk to
>their gal pals, they can talk to other
>guys, they can dance, they can get
>drinks, plenty of fun to be had. So WHY
>YOU? This is where a routine comes in:
>it's a field tested story that hooks her
>interest.
>
>It kind of amazes me, to be honest, how
>many guys still say a sarge died after a
>few minutes because they ran out of
>things to say. How many months will guys
>sarge getting blown out set after set in
>under 5 minutes before they recognize
>they MUST have things to say? You
>MUST memorize them and use them over and
>over once you find some that work. She
>isn't going to take the convo over from
>the start unless you come off very cool
>or are very good looking (or both). You
>can't sit there and make it up on the
>spot. She will walk away or turn back to
>her friends as soon as you stall. You've
>seen it over and over, haven't you?
>
>Moreover, even past the social hook
>point, you still need routines. You need
>stories that not only keep the
>interaction interesting and moving
>forward, you need stories that reveal
>things about yourself you want her to
>know.
>
>After all, why should she like you? What
>is cool about you? Do you know the
>answer to this? Do you know what you
>have to offer a hot woman who has her
>pick of men? If you don't, you need to
>think about it. And if you do, you need
>to let her know these things without
>bragging and qualifying youself to her
>lamely. You need
>stories about the aspects of your
>personality that you want to reveal.
>
>For example, I tell some stories about
>living in a gay area and how I get
>mistaken for being gay. The stories are
>funny and usually get laughs. I tell
>these in 99% of the sets I run, I swear
>my wings must be sick of them. BUT they
>work so consistently I can't drop them.
>
>Those stories alone are funny and they
>imply I have a sense of style perhaps
>and live in an atractive cool area (and
>maybe imply I have some money because I
>can afford to live there, but I downplay
>what I make)...but a KEY to them is that
>at the end I throw in the following:
>
>Chaco: you know, I have decided its a
>compliment when people think I am gay.
>After all, when people see some fat slob
>with tacky clothes, nobody ever says "he
>looks gay."
>HBs: haha that's true!
>Chaco: yeah, when it's a slender, good
>looking, well dressed guy, then people
>start saying "oh he must be gay!" So if
>people say I look gay, that's cool with
>me.
>
>In additon to being funny (not
>side-splitting, just amusing), that
>routine conveys that I am comfortable
>with my sexuality, which is an
>attractive quality. Only a real man
>would dare say he likes it when people
>think he is gay. Don't believe me? Ask
>your female friends.
>
>DON'T STEAL THAT. If I hear some guy use
>that in set I am gonna be pissed. That
>is not a canned routine, that's my life.
>That is to show you how I take something
>as mundane as where I live and make it
>into some stories that are funny and
>that reveal something about me.
>
>I also love to drop a story of how I
>used to date a bisexual girl and we
>would go to lesbian clubs together (100%
>true story). I then may tease the girls
>by offering to bring them there, and
>when they refuse, tease them more for
>being uptight and needing to "explore
>their wild side." Why do I tell girls
>this? It shows I not only can get girls,
>but it implies I am sexually adventurous
>and open-minded, key qualities if you
>want girls to open up to you sexually.
>Plus the teasing is funny and keeps
>things fun and light and flirty.
>
>I have a story or two about growing up
>in New York City. I have some "Jewish
>routines" I whip out when I run into
>Jewish girls because I am half-Jewish
>and these, in addition to being funny,
>create a sense of connection with them.
>I have the 1223 Cocain
>story to show I hang out at cool clubs
>and its funny. I have a new routine
>about yoga class because I take yoga
>seriously. I have a routine about how a
>female friend tried to set me up on a
>date and it was a distaster (it conveys
>I am selective, I dont run this much
>but should do it more). I have an
>"advice routine" that I will sometimes
>run after getting their female opinion
>that tells a funny story about how
>people come to me for advice a lot but
>then never take it. I have others than I
>am forgetting.
>
>I also have some DHV stuff, face reading
>a Zen Master taught me, palm reading I
>recently taught myself, plus the
>3-question game and the Cube. A more
>light heart personality routine is
>Strawberry Fields and the a Sex in the
>City routine where I ask which character
>they identify with.
>
>So all that together plus what girls
>start to contribute once you are hooked
>in and you have a long set, not to
>mention ad-libed matrial, TD routines
>like marry&divorce, Red Devil PVC,
>little sister adoption (rarely run these
>anymore), mini-cold reads, basic rapport
>talk, etc...I don't pretend my own
>routines are scientificaly calibrated to
>blast buying temp through the roof each
>time, but I feel I am good at getting
>past the social hook point and
>getting better at generating attraction
>more consistently.
>
>Ok, so maybe you don't live in an
>off-beat area. Maybe you live in boring
>white-trash suburb. Well, do you have
>other aspects of your life that you want
>her to know about? Maybe you have been
>to amazing places all over the world and
>had cool experinces there. Maybe you
>have some cool hobbies you can talk
>about. What do you want her to know
>about you?
>
>If you can't think of ANYTHING cool
>about you that you think a girl would
>find attractive, then maybe you have
>some deeper life-style issues you need
>to consider, and need to make some other
>changes.
>
>Lately there has been a lot of talk
>about vibing. I honestly don't know what
>this means. I know you need awesome body
>language, but you can't sit there engage
>in some wordless Vulcan mind-meld with
>her, you words do matter. You have to be
>socially interesting enough to get past
>social hook points and you need to be
>personally
>interesting enough to get past
>attraction hook points (combined with
>tight body language subcommunication).
>
>Guys, think about your lives and what
>cool things have happend to you. Think
>about what IS cool about your
>personality. Think of some stories that
>can convey these qualities. Then
>MEMORIZE them and practice finding ways
>to introuce these naturally into a convo
>and then practice the best ways to
>deliver them.
>
>This is part of the game. You can't
>avoid it. Holding an
>interesting a convo is a fundamental
>social skill that you must master. In
>fact, your job as a PUA is tougher. You
>need to hold an interesting convo with a
>hot girl or group of girls who have
>other social options to enjoy the second
>you become boring. The ONLY way to do
>this is to have lots of interesting
>things to say, and to say them in a
>polished way.
>
>-Chaco
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