mASF post by "razorjack"
posted on: mASF forum: General Discussion newsgroup, June 6, 2005OK excuse me for a second.....
(Razorjack rolls up his sleeves and crack his knuckles to rip this post apart)
Hehehe....:)
> From: Jacques
>
> OK. The last posts about neg hits, feigning disinterest and C&F from Heisse
> and Razorjack made me realize that there are a lot of people here who
> apparently have a wrong idea about those concepts. So maybe we should
> clarify these concepts.
Sure, sounds good!
> Neg hits and feigning disinterest are little more than a gimmick to be used
> with these girls that are validation junkies.
Have you ever considered why these chicks are validation junkies?
So instead of getting into a pissing contest with her and going against the
current, maybe you
should take a little deeper look at the chick in front of you and why she is
the way she is. Then
use that to not only attract her but make her yours.
> They expect you to kiss their feet,
> you hit them with a neg so that they are deprived of the validation.
Of course, you can't let them think you find them attractive! :)
> Bonus
> point: they are surprised, so they are interested to know who is this man who
> does not compliment them like the other 10 who talked to her today.
Imagine this scenario if you will:
Jacques sees a hot chick, walks up to her, thinks he needs to knock her off her
pedastal and fires
out a neg hit. The chick is surprised.
Along comes Razorjack puts his arm around her, tells her she looks nice and
wants to get to know
her.
Who will the chick pay attention to? Who will the chick be more attracted to?
And why?
Food for thought, maybe?
> Useful...
> in this special case. Disastrous if the girl was actually attracted to you or
has
> LSE. Conclusion: a lot less useful than some newbies think and certainly not
> to be used all the time.
>
> C&F is completely different. The confusion comes from the fact that many
> examples of C&F as given by DeAngelo are negative, but C&F does not have
> to be negative.
Then maybe it's not C&F or you shouldn't call it C&F. Semantics. I mean if DD
is the biggest
advocater of C&F and he uses negative examples, what does that tell you?
> It does not have to be lines like "Your shows are nice... for
> somebody who is a midget" (almost rude),
Agree...this could be downright insulting if she has issues about her height.
> but can be a line like "Let's go to
> Vegas tonight and get married" (which is funny without being negative).
Hmmm...and I thought this was what we call Role Playing, not C&F. It's funny,
but there's nothing
cocky about it.
> C&F is about PLAY. DeAngelo says it himself actually: it is the difference
> between fight and "play fight". I would say the right spirit is something
like
> "let us PRETEND I am not interested and play that you convince me that I
> should be interested". C&F is a way to convince her to interact with you.
No, it's a means to an end. That end comes when she convinces you that you
should be interested.
You go in pretending that you're not interested and in the back of her mind
she's thinking, "why
is he talking to me?"
So then this leads to one of 4 conclusions:
1. She believes that you really are NOT interested and she blows you out before
you can blow her
out in order to save her ego.
2. She believes that you really are NOT interested and sees this as a challenge
to get you
interested. So she does all she can to get you interested and unless you have a
deep connection
with her, once she does get you interested she no longer has any need for you
and ejects.
3. She concludes that you are only PRETENDING not to be interested and doesn't
feel like wasting
her time with some who can't be man enough to express how he really feels and
blows you out.
4. She concludes that you are only PRETENDING not to be interested and sees
this as fun challenge.
Unless you have a deep connection with her, once you show interest that
challenge is gone and the
fun is over. She moves on to have fun somewhere else without you!
You THINK she is attracted to you cuz you're playful and pretending
disinterest, BUT in reality
she is NOT attracted to you, she is attracted to the CHALLENGE of getting you
to show interest,
she is hungry for getting validation. So eventually you have to show interest
and do something if
the PU is gonna go anywhere, what do you think will happen then?
The only way this will work is if she absolutely wanted you from the beginning
in which case you
never needed C&F in the first place or if you manage to build a deep connection
with her and she
WANTS to see you again.
Haven't you guys ever wondered why the beginning part of the PU goes so well,
but later the chicks
get bored and eject? Or why you get #closes and the chick flakes?
> C&F has many advantages (an some disadvantages, I know): it shows that you
> are comfortable with yourself and confident,
I beg to differ. How can PRETENDING to not be interested show that you are
comfortable and
confident. To me it shows the exact opposite, that you are not really confident
enough to show how
her you feel and feel uncomfortable with her thinking that you might really
like her.
> it allows you to lead the
> conversation as the man, it allows you to talk about sexual matters in a
> socially acceptable way and everybody feels good about laughing.
>
> Last but not least, it is a way to get to know the girl.
How?
Please elaborate.
> With this type of
> conversation, BECAUSE you are PLAYING, she can say personal, SEXUAL things
> without fearing being labeled as a slut. You just have to wrap it in a funny,
> playful way.
She is saying/doing all those things to get you interested, NOT because she is
attracted to you.
> A powerful way to interact with women. And damn fun, too. ;-)
Well if it's really this powerful then you should be getting laid like a rock
star then, right? :)
You guys think C&F is this all powerful attraction tool, but it's an illusion.
C&F does NOT make her attracted to you, it make her attracted to the CHALLENGE
of attracting you
to her. It makes her want validation from you.
Let me show you guys where you are completely misunderstanding C&F:
First of all there is a certain order in which things happen:
1. You approach and open
2. You show interest
3. You build a connection with her
4. Close
Point 3 being the most important. Now you can have whatever you want in between
those 4 things.
You can have active disinterest, routines, C&F, or whatever between 1 & 2, but
you eventually come
to 2. You have to have 3 in place before you can get to 4.
Now this is where you guys fuck it up:
So you do 1.
Then you do C&F and think she's attracted, but she's trying to get you
interested NOT that she
really is attracted to you. She want validation from you.
Eventually you reach 2 by letting her believe that she has won you over. So now
you are trying to
do 3. But now that challenge that she was attracted to is GONE! She gets bored
and the PU bombs!
You never get to 3.
Or you #close her before you get to 3, but that challenge is STILL gone,
because you were
interested enough to take her number and when you call, she flakes!
Now let's talk about efficiency. You guys that are doing the
C&F/disinterest/indirect thing get to
point 3 when?
5, 10, 15, 20, 30 minutes, day2?
I'm there in 10 seconds!
The time that you guys spend doing C&F/disinterest/indirect/whatever crap, I
use to build a
connection with her so that she wants to see me again. And THAT is why my game
is so much more
efficient.
-Razorjack
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