mASF post by "Karakatcho"
posted on: mASF forum: Reviews Discussion, July 7, 2004(It is long, incomplete and full of typo as i’m mostly french. Have fun anyway
and feel free to comment!)
This is my report for the Montreal seminar and workshop i just attended last
weekend (June 9-11 2004). My report wont go in details about the content of
seminar, most of the stuff is in TylerDurden archive. I dont have complete
details of my sets as i have a bad memory, but i hope some of you will enjoy
it. It was really an amazing experience!
A very fast recap of my experience before the workshop: I was a negative, fat,
ugly, loser, asocial virgin guy until 27. I was at the lowest i could go in my
life (Lost my job, big oneitis crash, bad self-esteem, no social circle) until
i found Sosuave while looking for tricks to get my last oneitis back. After
that, it just has gone better and better. Found ASF later wich is containing
incredible stuff (had to get rid of the “player hating” thing before i could
get the most of it! Ah! Ah!) It took me more than two years to get to the
point of being a normal guy with decent look, positive outlook on life, better
shape (trained hard for some times). A guy being able to talk about his
feelings but not too much, closer to his family, nice career and aware of his
values (creative, funny, etc.). With women, things improved too, getting a few
ONS and my first real GF. I wont go in details, but it was something very
amazing for me. I had a overall great experience except that i settle down for
a girl with heavy LSE problems. I ended the relationship. I was having the luck
to being approched sometimes but wasnt able to approach. Very major sticking
point for me. So i really changed my life complety. I have tried to help
friends get there and enjoy the enlightment of ASF without success. So i was
alone for most of my “trip” in seduction stuff. My contacts with the
“community” was through internet, but without any “e-pals”. I never was an
heavy poster too (kj to it’s bare minimum!).
When i ended the relationship, it was clear for me that i would take the
opportunity of beeing single again to really get a better social circle,
improve myself again and push my boudaries. Attending RSD was planned for a
long time. I attended both event maybe one month after my breakup and one week
after my ex-gf finally moved out. I was really not really in good state at that
time... Like the last few times i have gone out before the RSD weekend where
very bad: I was still the shy guy, going out without anyone to meet, with no
smile, doing the paperflower, getting drunk and getting home alone!
Day one.
So, this is the first night of the workshop. Get there by taxi and i am very
nervous and anxious. VERY anxious. I get in the room full of guys and i’m so
intimidated! I notice Papa and Tyler (recognize them from Thundercat’s lair DYD
recap photos). My registration is weird and get informed that there is an
overcharge for paying in CND dollars. I dont understand it, there is a bunch of
guys waiting behind me, i’m nervous and my spoken english very jerky: i was
talking like a complete retard!!! I dont understand that, i had really hard
time with my spoken english with the guys (most of the weekend) but it was
really better when i was sarging girls. Maybe because i had to translate what i
was thinking too much..) It does’nt cliked well with Papa at first meet
because of this communication barrier and saddly it is one of the rare guy of
RSD i didnt had the chance to learn from.
I sit down in the room and just try to chill down. Talk a bit with some guys. I
hear: “I’m 234u234!!!” I say “What?” The guy standing up next to me repeat:
“I’m JLAIX!!” So he just sit down and start doing his routine in front of us. I
was very amazed by the way he just sat down and took the convo lead. I must say
that i really liked JLAIX style as he is really intense and funny. Kind of a
Quantin Tarantino character on speed! I really like his ASF posting too, so it
was real fun this see him in real life. Like i said, very intense guy.
The briefing begins with the presentation of RSD members. Very short
presentation of Openers. We are already moving out. I’m with another billingual
guy, an english guy and have Jlaix and his wing Christophe as intructors.
Christophe being french really helped me. Saddly i didnt had the chance to talk
wich Jlaix or learn much from him in field (i was really having hard time to
explain my sarge so i could give me feedback). One thing i noticed too is that
it seems that many people are impressed by Jlaix. At two times, i had this:
“Look Jlaix is doing a set”. But he his like 20 meters away, how can you learn
from that?!! (actually, i learn from him because i integrated some of his
attitude in my style and as we will see later, he his an amazing speaker.)
So, i think Christophe was maybe the best instructor i could get that night, i
really liked the guy, very chill. With him, i did not had to stress about
speaking to him in english. He really just pushed me into sets, showing me the
set and telling me: “Go and open this set”. I think he really sensed what i
needed: when i was just taking a big breath before doing the set he was going
“5,4,3,2,1.. Go!” I got great feedback from him too. I think that i had the
luck too of really wanting to get the most of my weekend. It was really my
firsts cold approaches (not drunk, not having received ioi, etc.) in my life.
Done maybe ten that night wich i an amazing number for me!! What i learned from
my first night was that opinion opener works very well. You get in set like a
cutter in butter. Incredible.
Obviously, the set i remember the most was my first one:
We are in a prime location. I dont talk about party girl club. Very A-Crowd
lounge. I knew this place already and always tought i was too low value to get
in there! Ah! Ah! So just being there was very intimidating for me!
I dont remember the sequence well (i was so nervous) but here is overall how it
went: Christophe (Jlaix wing) tell me: "Go open this set." Its a very cute
girl, very classy, sitted alone at a coffee table. I open her with Davie Bowie
or who lie more (dont remember well), time constraint and sit (i think
Christophe told me i sitted too fast). It goes well, i get her smiling. The
waitress come and bring two coffee and i bust her for that and fake taking a
sip and watch or ddb look. At some point she tell me that her BF is just over
there, i dont look, just continue. Later, i eject (dont remember what i have
said), she ask my name (IOI) and gave me her hand. I take her hand, say
"karakatcho" pull her hand so we get closer and kiss her on the cheek/neck
(dont remember well.. but it was not very "friendly" ah! ah! ah!". I leave the
set.
Like 10 minute later, i'm on Crescent waiting for my group to move and a
fucking big guy comme to me and say: "Are you Karakatcho? The guy that kissed
my gf?" I keep my cool, handshake him and smile. "Yes it's me, it's cool" He
say: "You could get shit for doing thing like that". I tell him i'm "latin"
blooded and kiss like that every girl that i meet, that is no big deal. That i
know that i could get shit for that and thanks him for his wise and nice
advice!" I see that he is really pissed off, but because i didnt lose my cool,
he just eject and leave. Ouf!!
So i have done approximatively 10 sets that night and learned new thing each
times. Many was initiated by Christopher pushing me in set but i initiated a
few of my own. Sometimes i was too pushy, other time was not able to go past
the convo, other time too much C&F, bad body language, bad delivery of the
opener, etc. I dont remember being rejected, maybe got one or two cold
reaction.
The only thing i didnt like was at the end of the night, say 2 am. It was not
clear if the workshop was over and wanted to pratice opening while being in
state but we where wandering in empty clubs, the streets while doing nothing.
That really pissed me off. Christophe sensed it i think. So i decided to go to
another club. I was a loud place and was not able to open any set. But funny
thing is that a very hot black girl came in front of me (saw her earlier
rejecting guy very hard): imitated my bodylanguage (ie. guy standing near the
dance floor and not dancing), took my hand to bring me to the dance floor. I
followed her and just laughed without dancing, i was completly in shock!! She
immediately got pissed off and ejected. Oh well!! Actually, black girl are kind
of my kink and really hope to lay one this year. I dont know why, but it seems
that my necklace give them the “i like black girls” signal!
So i dont open set there and come back to the guys. Christophe and Jlaix are
not there anymore. I open a 2 set in front of Tyler near a restaurant. I was
not aware he was looking until i ended it and he told me that one of the girl
was completely into me. I say: “Really?” He answer: “Yes, i can tell!!”. Nice!
Saw him opening a set wich worked very well but was not able to hear the convo.
Talked a bit to MTL_PUA about the night. Very cool guy too, but like Papa, i
didnt had the chance to have him as instructor.
I have searched for guys because i tought there was an post-workshop
debrefing. Doesnt seems there was one, maybe i missed it because i lost my
instructors while going on my own.
There is something that could have been better. We have paid the cover charge
for going to one of the club, yet there was plenty of guys giving vip card on
the street. Having known that before we could have looked for those (now i even
know that saturday night, you just have to look at the ground and pick them up!
Ah! Ah! No more cover charge and line up for me!)
First night? That was not a magic pill in any way! But i got back home very
proud of having done my first 10 (or maybe more?) cold approach and having gone
out without getting drunk (1 beer only). The first few sets (opening) where
difficult but it got just got easier and more natural with the next one. Talked
to girls way more hot than the one i was usually trying to get with my lame
passive game! It had been written many times already but i now can tell from
experience that hot girl are more easy to talk and open than UG (in the same
environnement). I learned about new venues i was not going to, that i will now,
and the advantages of going out early (i was the kind of guy to go out at
12h30).
The first thing that deceived me the most the first day was to get in the room
and notice that almost everyone was wearing jeans. I bought pants, wich i hate
wearing, just because it was advised on the RSD FAQ. I wish i could have saved
this expense. I actually learned later from an instructor that as long you are
dressed cool and sexy you can get in almost everywhere. Lesson learned!
Day two.
Great seminar. Many stuff that you can read on ASF, put really well put
together. I am not a guy that like taking notes so i cant report more than
that. Tyler really is an amazing speaker, unbelievable memory. If you have
passed some time on ASF reading stuff, it really help connect the dots. It was
overwhelming for me even if knew some of the theorical stuff... I dont know for
other inexperienced guys that has attended the seminar, for me it was quite
advanced. You could study 3 years in university in fields like sexology and
psychology and still have no fucking clues about you can learn in this seminar
about seduction. I almost had the impression of being in a secret training of
CIA agent.. Cool!
Many breaks during the day where i had the chance to talk a bit and meet people
like Stephane (from cliff list) and other instructor like 10Magnet, Mtl_Pua,
and PlayBoyLA (that i ended not having as instructor in the workshop). All
amazing guys in their own way, very friendly. It was very strange to talk to
some of these people and learn later their screen name. I was picturing
Stephane as the big macho muscular big tall guy that you can see on the every
beach. Ah! Ah! He was actually reminding me my older brother, wich was a
natural, in his best days.
This day, i was wearing a new red shirt. Very bad fabrics and had sweeting
spots during all the seminar. I tough it was my antiperspirant and just before
the workshop i was trying to find a place to buy another one. I walk off the
hotel and walk 10 min to another one where it was to have a mini-mart (not sure
the term in english). I enter there and there is a wedding reception or
something like that. I kid you not. It was a gold mine!! I didnt saw girl
better looking or dressed like that for all the weekend. I got some EC and
wanted to stay to try some sets but fuck!! Workshop is beginning in 10
minutes!! I run to the hotel and talk to 26’ about my problem: “I’m nervous and
my english is very bad.” He ask me: “Is this a joke?” Thinking about it now, it
was very funny... but i was really making me self-conscious: “How will i be
able to approach girl with the two spots of transpiration under my armpit!!!!”
Well, i was supposed to go with No9 and Toecutter to sarge at the Jazz Festival
(i really wanted to go there because i attend this event every year and i
tought that i could go get a new shirt as i live nearby) but Tyler told to me
and another workshop attendee: “It’s your last chance to sarge with me” and
told me to not care about the shirt as it will be dark in club anyway. We get
in car with Cliff, nice car!, and we get downtown. Tyler took the time to speak
in french which was really nice from him, i really enjoyed that moment.
I dont think i got the most from Tyler and got hard time getting into sets and
into state. I knew he hate when student are walking away from him to do sets
(because he have to find them later) but i have done it anyway. I still have
learned many thing from him. I remember having entered a set where he was and
the girls where so into him, that i could have been a bear that they wouldnt
have noticed it. You have to see it to believe. He filmed me on camera to show
me. Weird experience. He showed us how to enter a set and sit down properly.
Strangely, the thing i remember the most was when he gave me a slap on the arm
to remove my hand in my pocket!
Saddly, i dont have much more note but i really liked the guy. You have to see
him entering a bar, walking and scanning for targets... very strange and funny!
Completely in his own world!
For some reason, it clicked very well with Sickboy. Many of the stuff i learned
with him in field have helped me big time with my game. Being able to stop a
group a hot girl on the street was fucking unreal. Very eye opening and very
easier than solo girls. And i have learned to do it correctly with indirect
opener. Not quite perfect, but had set that opened very well. Again that night
i have done probably 10 sets. My best set was a black girl sitted at a bar
alone with a black guy near her. I think she was quite cute. (Sickboy and the
other student where in a group set).
I order my bear and turn my head a bit: “Hey! I need a female opinion.” The
girl smile and say “What?”
I say to her “Wait! Wait”, turn my head and wait for my drink to come.
I then continue the opener (Davie Bowie i think).
Set have gone very well, with many c&f (got her to slap my ass), rapport, etc.
At some point we talk about Florence (Italy) and she talk to me about DeAngelo.
I panick for a few seconds (thinking) fuck fuck.. i'm busted.. she know i’m
picking her up. I calm down.. she actually said Micheal Deangelo and i continue
talking about the small penis of Adam. Ah! Ah!
The girl was enjoying the interaction big time. I was very smooth maybe because
i didnt had the stress to perform in front of the instructor. When she asked
about my friends, i showed her Sickboy and the other student that was nearby.
She asked me about the student backpack and told her he was bringing all his
sex toys and that she should see this enormous plastic dick he had in it.” Very
funny. Sickboy later come to me to tell me they leave. I ask him 5 minutes.
I try to number close her under the pretext of going to the Jazz Festival wich
failed miserabily (she’s from New York, leaving monday with no phone).
Too rushed, i really could have been better than that!
I leave her nicely anyway.
After a week, i dont remember all the night very well but i remember walking
back to the group at the end of the workshop and doing a very nice group set
with sickboy (a group of bachelorette girls). I had the chance to see him to a
very complete structured pickup in front of me. I really learned about being
able to spice things up and keep the conversation natural.
Side note: While Sickboy was teaching us opening on the street there was guys
looking at us and standing nearby... The was people knowing a workshop was
going on!
Sickboy gave me a very nice review at the end of night, very flatering. I still
have confidence issue about my look (for having been a few years ago a big guy,
bad dressed, with flaring acne). He told me i had the style of someone that is
getting laid and that i was goodlooking and the type of guy that girls are
looking for. That was very nice ego strocking. I really enjoyed it! Ah! Ah!
Thanks man! I had actually had similar comment, from PlayBoyLA i think. Having
the look thing going on for you seems to be kind of Taboo in the community.
Maybe it explains why i got this comment from two of the best looking guy of
the RSD team. In fact, i has helped me since to actually understand why i was
pissing girl off often with my C&F (conveing too much value i think).
Maybe one of the best instructor i had this weekend: Pushing student into set,
doing Pep-Talk, great review of set, some theory, live exemple in front of us.
Nice! I still laugh at the time a girl neged him (wearing a tag watch and torn
apart jeans). She took his arm and looked at the watch: “Is it real?” Ah! Ah!
Ah! Very nice set even if the girls where older.
Day three.
Nice seminar again, last part by Tyler was way too rushed for the quality of
his content. Too fast to take notes and too much content to remember. But
again, most of his stuff is on ASF. I really like all the speaker presentation.
Jlaix was very amazing, has definite stand-up comedian skills. I liked Mtl_Pua
one (No Action=Depression), PlayBoyLA and Toecutter was incredible. Just that
part was covering the seminar cost easily (comparing to DYD guest interview by
exemple where he doesnt give enough place to his guest (IMO).
For the workshop i was with Xaneus for the first part of night and then
Toecutter. I must say first that everyone was already exausted from the
previous days. The night was very bad in term of targets. There was a big show
(200,000 peoples) going on and we where going everywhere without finding many
targets. In my opinion, it could have been better with better logistic.. At
least, we should have gone in the Jazz Festival. But it was great anyway
because we had the chance to work venues i was quite intimidated with, lounge
restaurant, cofee shop, places likes that.
Xaneus was quite cool to work with. Like many instructor, he is really smooth,
very non-threatning, smiling, friendly in his pickup. Nice! Awesome body
langage and he has done some sets i tought was impossible in front of us
(stopping a hot girl walking alone while she was talking on her cellphone.) He
is the instructor i have seen the most doing approches.
Last instructor and not the least Toecutter. Really unique and i liked him very
much. I saw him correcting the body langage of a beggar in front of the group
and later in the night continuing his exposé on how to open a sitted group set
in front of a girl that overheard the conversation. She told us: “I want to
hear the pickup artisti like to pickup girls too.” Very very funny set. I
liked it because it showed me how much the game can be fun when you take it
seriously in the bad way.
I wish i was more proactive to get into the hard set he was proposing us, but i
learned many things just by listening to him. The funniest thing that happened
was the nice two set he number closed in a lounge restaurant just to learn 10
minutes later that three instructor had number closed the set already! Ah! Ah!
Fuck, this is getting long and i have too much things to do. I just list here
some notes i took immediately after the seminar-workshop, just tell me if you
want me to expand one of them:
- Seeing in real life how some routines like thrust test are killer effective
for pickup.
- Getting two instructor commenting about the fact that my bodylanguage and
delivery is very different when i do my pickup in french. (ie. way better in
french than in english).
- Seing guys in looking like dork really improving visibly just by the look. No
offense guys! Props to you!
- Learning that that some of the things i have done/attitudes with my ONS
really is what i need to integrate in my game when i do the pickup. I just have
to add the opening, attract phase wich i usually skip when girl approach me.
(ie. i have to be calm, relax, just fun, not too much cocky...etc. state that
i'm in when i'm drunk..!)
- Learning what is being an alpha-male for real.
- Running into sets that have been opened with the same line.. ah! ah! Got one
nice sets going on and TD told me that the girl was into me (told them: “oh! So
you’ve met my friends? What have you told them?”.
- Doing ~30 cold opening during the weekend including the really off sunday
night... Ground-breaking. Like most of the opening i have done before that
where after ioi (mostly EC). Lesson learned.. you definitively dont need EC to
get in.
- Impressed by a guy in my group that was really good. Didnt looked dephased
when having to go to "hard" set (from my point of view).
- Mixed sets.. it's good. Group of girl great. Groups are even easier than
target alone!?
- Great subtleties in the opening (from Toecutter): It has to be obvious that
you care about getting a female opinion, not her, but having a female opinion
because you, and your friends, have no fucking clues about it (who lies more,
if david bowie is hot, etc.).
- It really a big wad of cash that was invested there for me.. Clothes i bought
that was not needed, taxi (i could have taken the metro... so my bad) and
overcharge for cnd$. If i would only consider the off time where i was waiting
(end of first night + sunday) and noticing how the 2 student of my group where
pushed more often in group than me i could be deceived about that... But i
really think i could have gone throught the next month, getting some foolmates
but never being able to consistantly open and understand all the subtlelities
of bodyLanguage and stuff that TD and other guys on ASF are posting. From
there, it's really up to me i feel confident i will get something out of it
even if i was feeling like shit at some point of the workshop. Just being able
to go out without drinking will cover the cost of the workshop easilly over the
next year. I was at a point where i was dropping nearly 60$ every time to go
out in loud club and getting drunk so i didnt feel the anxiety of being out
alone and not talking to other people.
- Having field experience so that i see the patterns of response to opener and
have hook to bring the discussion where i want. Like i tried, when girl tell me
girls lies more: "So you basically tell me your a fucking liar.. ", backturn to
walkaway, turn back to them and smile and continue...But i really see that the
answer is completely irrelevant.. like this early routine mix is working very
consistantly, independantly of the answer of the girls.
- Seeing cliff using a complete different opener that worked really well.. You
really can create your own opener. (seeing cliff sleeping during the seminar
was fun too!)
- It's quite impressive the quantity of stuff TD has internalised... Spitting
hours of stuff without having notes (first day).
- Opinion opener.. Very high succes rate.
- Winging and instant social proof
- Things i would have liked to learn: Shorts sets and ejecting nicely..
somethings sets went well but freaked out because i didnt had backup routines..
i ejected like an asshole.
- Things i do wrong: Getting close too fast, Negs when it's not needed
Having no routines to get past the opener, Forget to transition to rapport when
attraction is there, Not being able to enter an opened set without looking as a
retard. I have to work on my confidence.. i know that i still show some
insecurities (ie. lack of self-internal validation).
- My Asset: I think i have many things going on for me, including have some of
my shit together.
- Logistic should have been better (getting free vip card that was given on the
street instead of paying).
To sum it all up, it was really the best investment i have done in my life.
Despite some quirks, really worth it. Life changing and mind blowing, really.
It really isnt about indirect vs direct approach.. it is way more than that. I
got brain-fryed so much that i had a complete no-productive week at work after
this weekend (to the point that it was very bad!). I met great guys during all
the week and joined the Montreal Lair. Have a look at my last post on
FastSeduction to see the actual results (compare them with my earlier field
reports to see the difference):
- LR: Nice upper body... but huge booty!?
- FR+++: Very kinky stuff on Mont-Royal!
- FR+: First number close outside a club!
- FR++: Kiss close, number close and FUN!
It’s hard to judge from an external standpoint, but i can tell you that for me
it is simply awesome improvement!
Welcome to the new “me” and stay tune for more LR!
Ps: All the RSD team, i really can’t thanks you every one of you enough! You
guys are so money! Cheers!!
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