mASF post by "ox"
posted on: mASF forum: General Discussion newsgroup, May 5, 2005On 5/16/05 6:49:00 AM, Mystery wrote:
>First off, I think someone has
>to be straightened out on who
>invented group theory - who
>called them obstacles and
>targets, who taught how to
>disarm them, who called them
>singles and 2-sets and 3-sets
>etc. who turned pickup lines>into indirect group cold
>approach openers (including,
>embarrassingly, the false
>opinion opener). and defined
>the NEG, DHV, and IOI (and
>recently IOD which is a neg).
>and who's friend defined the
>false time constraint (of
>which he defined the non
>verbal false time constraint.)
>
>>What's up guys. I just read TD's "How to really PU" post again. I felt that
if his theory was sound then my game would improve. Right now I am focusing on
disarming obstacles but I have been getting very inconsistent results with
this. I have some questions, thanks in advance
>
>>1) I got the impression that TD will basically go up to ANY girl in ANY
situation and just game her, whether she is talking to gangsters or with a
group of her friends.
>
>this doesnt happen. we hold
>back sometimes. we choose our
>sets. sometimes we will wait
>back for more info (hmmm, is
>that guy going to signal his
>ownership of that woman in
>that 2 set over there?), or
>notice the set is about to
>order drinks. Some sets aren't
>ripe for the approach. some
>sets are moving (and in the
>wrong direction). and some we
>can foresee a legitimate
>interuption in the set within
>the first few minutes. So the
>impression in inaccurate (but
>appreciated haa).
>
>>But how the fuck do you do that when she is with a guy or her boy friend?
>
>in group theory you will NOT
>get along with ONE person. You
>will NEG this person. The
>other you will get along with
>(as long as they dont neg you
>first). the person to neg is
>the target (or arbitrarily
>selected target when in a set
>full of UGs). but throwing the
>neg at the target, you demo
>that you arent affected by her
>looks and raise your value,
>you disqualify your self to
>her as a potential suitor
>(disarming the obstacles) but
>also lower the targets value
>and creating a situation where
>she must revalidate herself by
>trying to win you over (you
>become a challenge). then you
>DHV to the obstacles but so
>the target can still hear (as
>well as see the reactions of
>her peer group). you will also
>test for IOIs and if they
>return true you then you ask,
>"so how do you all know
>eachother" and if the info
>returned shows its safe to
>proceed, you A3 M2F Interest
>false qualify over 3 to 10
>minutes.
>
>So if she has a BF, you open
>high energy to a guy and neg
>the target liberally yet
>playfully. if they are
>kissing, tap him on the
>shoulder, clear your throat
>and say, "excuse me, may i cut
>in?" then try to kiss the guy.
>or you use a social proofing
>flash before entering or come
>in with a girl and/or pawn the
>girl on him.
>
>>Should I open them both then just ignore the guy(s) and game the girl
>
>only if you discover they are
>NOT BF and GF.
>
>>or should I just ignore the guy(s) right from the get go and game the target
immediately and if he talks shit then out alpha?
>
>only if you discover (either
>before entry into the set or
>after) that he JUST came into
>the set and is unimportant to
>her or if important, you can
>befriend him and make him beta
>himself to you.
>
>there is a distinction between
>getting a guy to beta himself
>to you and you trying to
>alpha.
>
>
>>2)Most importantly, TD says that his club method is different from the 13
steps (MM) he just goes in and games the target and he succeeds at pulling TOP
SHB's from ANY club.
>
>We internalize phases into our
>motor-response and dont
>actually THINK about the
>phases anymore. Having
>internalized the method we are
>simply INTUITIVE. this is
>called LARGE CHUNKING. I dont
>have to think of all the small
>things I do when going from
>point A to point B in a car. I
>just do is, but there was a
>time I small chunked the
>process into many phases such
>as "turn on blinker, check my
>blind spot, then change
>lanes". The last time I saw
>him perform in field (several
>months ago) his indirect
>opening, use of time
>constraints, negs to target
>and dhvs to obstacles, kino
>tests, and more seemed very
>mystery methodical, even if he
>didnt specifically contemplate
>what phase he was in.
>
>>However, he said it may not work for pulling a Hollywood actress.
>
>His game is calibrated to
>getting hot young girls who
>little social status.
>Mystery's game is calibrated
>to getting hot young girls
>with a lot of social status.
>(the hard part if FINDING
>them, though once he finds
>them Mystery's game delivers
>the goods).
>
>>At this point I'm not overly concerned with that anyway. So since TD
obviously knows the 13 steps inside out and YET he just goes up to the target
as his primary club method then wouldn't it make sense for me to do the same
thing.
>
>to know the 13 steps in and
>out, internalize it into your
>motor response and not think
>about it so you develop an
>intuition that is responsive
>and accurate? certainly.
>
>>Besides disarming these unfriendly obstacles is starting to be a pain.
>
>agreed. many amog battles can
>be disarmed by cleverly
>befriending the amog, saving
>you potential stress (and a
>bleeding nose). saying "ive
>got to introduce you to this
>gorgeous blond I cant seem to
>win over. you are so her type.
>she'll be here in 10 minutes.
>ill introduce you when she
>gets here whats your name" is
>better than "cool dude, gay
>bars over there ".
>
>>Plus I'm better at attracting my target then befriending her peers. See lay
reports from this weekend ;)
>
>its one thing to attract the
>target. but when they are all
>driving home together, what
>will the peer group say about
>you to the target in the car?
>"oh my god he is awesome!" or
>"he looked weird"?
>
>>3) Is TD suggesting you open the group first (like MM) then immediately
switch to the target or do you just walk right up to the target using CF and
busting on her in front of her friends to get her attracted and make her
friends like you for teasing her?
>
>Im curious about that too.
>
>>In summary I'm reading his post and I'm thinking here I am trying to disarm
obstacles, telling them stories while trying simultaneously to neg my target
while Tyler Durden, who has taken WORK SHOPS on these tactics doesn't even use
them as his primary club method!!!
>
>so the question is, does he
>neg the target (in an effort
>to disarm the obstacles and
>challenge the target) and dhv
>to the obstacles in order to
>befriend them and attract the
>target, or does he go straight
>to the target and bust on her
>directly to the delight of the
>obsterving peergroup (this
>might work i donno) and then
>when (if) they get pissy, amog
>blast them?
>
>>Now I'm as confused as a whore in church ;) From the archives I read that
Mystery really emphasizes befriending ALL obstacles first ESPECIALLY the guys.
Whereas TD seems to stress AMOGing guys and focusing more on the target than
obstacles. I'm sure they both work it's just a little confusing trying to
figure out the best strategy to use.
>Thanks for any insights.
>
>very good question. as I see
>it, AMOG BEFRIENDING is more
>versatile and safe than AMOG
>BLASTING because you get to
>show you are an alphamale too
>(see, the girl will likely
>know the guy IS an alpha
>already), and you dont have a
>higher risk of bleeding nose.
>however, sometimes you have to
>amog blast so that you can
>defuse a potential out-alpha
>attempt before it occurs.
>out-alphaing is also an
>opportunity to prove you are
>an alpha and brave however. I
>use either BEFRIENDING,
>PRE-FIGHT POSTURING "step the
>fuck down" (which only happens
>if befriending doesnt work and
>he gets dangerous) and BOOTING
>(getting him booted from the
>club). To be honest, I only
>amog blast my wings for shits
>and giggles (like when Style
>blasts me playfully and few
>times with some good zingers
>and I reply, "how can I
>compete? While Im out with
>girls, you're at home alone on
>your computer for hours
>researching and rehearsing all
>these great zingers in a
>mirror". haa. great fun and
>good times had by all ... and
>it shows our comradery in
>front of a set.
>
>>PS: My gut is telling me to first focus on gaming the target ASAP then in the
future move to the 13 steps for specific targets.
>
>That's like trying to work a
>single WITHIN a group. you
>alienate the group that way,
>creating dragaway girls,
>cockblocks and amogs for
>yourself needlessly.
>
>Stick to the group theory
>gameplan. I wont steer you
>wrong.
>
>Love !Mystery
hi mystery
mindblowing! you cleared all the questions i still had about group theory.
now i am not going to take your seminar! ha,ha! just kidding!
Seriously, group theory kicks ass and it is gear to get the hottest girls but
it is easier said than done. It takes a fuck load of practice. one of my sp´s
that i still work on is that i get stuck with the uglies and cant work my way
up to the target or not create sufficiently attraction to impress target...i
know it is just practice though. sometimes i cant get to the target and get
stuck with the hb5 or hb6 from the group. i end up dhving to the uglier
chicks...Other thing is that you have to perform, that is, you have to engage
huge ass groups in the middle of the club with loud music, all kinds of
distractions. i have done it though but it takes a hell of a performance. but
it is like democracy, we have no other better way clubwise.
see you,
ox
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