mASF post by "Mystery"
posted on: mASF forum: General Discussion newsgroup, May 5, 2005First off, I think someone has to be straightened out on who invented group
theory - who called them obstacles and targets, who taught how to disarm them,
who called them singles and 2-sets and 3-sets etc. who turned pickup linesinto
indirect group cold approach openers (including, embarrassingly, the false
opinion opener). and defined the NEG, DHV, and IOI (and recently IOD which is a
neg). and who's friend defined the false time constraint (of which he defined
the non verbal false time constraint.)
>What's up guys. I just read TD's "How to really PU" post again. I felt that if
his theory was sound then my game would improve. Right now I am focusing on
disarming obstacles but I have been getting very inconsistent results with
this. I have some questions, thanks in advance
>1) I got the impression that TD will basically go up to ANY girl in ANY
situation and just game her, whether she is talking to gangsters or with a
group of her friends.
this doesnt happen. we hold back sometimes. we choose our sets. sometimes we
will wait back for more info (hmmm, is that guy going to signal his ownership
of that woman in that 2 set over there?), or notice the set is about to order
drinks. Some sets aren't ripe for the approach. some sets are moving (and in
the wrong direction). and some we can foresee a legitimate interuption in the
set within the first few minutes. So the impression in inaccurate (but
appreciated haa).
>But how the fuck do you do that when she is with a guy or her boy friend?
in group theory you will NOT get along with ONE person. You will NEG this
person. The other you will get along with (as long as they dont neg you first).
the person to neg is the target (or arbitrarily selected target when in a set
full of UGs). but throwing the neg at the target, you demo that you arent
affected by her looks and raise your value, you disqualify your self to her as
a potential suitor (disarming the obstacles) but also lower the targets value
and creating a situation where she must revalidate herself by trying to win you
over (you become a challenge). then you DHV to the obstacles but so the target
can still hear (as well as see the reactions of her peer group). you will also
test for IOIs and if they return true you then you ask, "so how do you all know
eachother" and if the info returned shows its safe to proceed, you A3 M2F
Interest false qualify over 3 to 10 minutes.
So if she has a BF, you open high energy to a guy and neg the target liberally
yet playfully. if they are kissing, tap him on the shoulder, clear your throat
and say, "excuse me, may i cut in?" then try to kiss the guy. or you use a
social proofing flash before entering or come in with a girl and/or pawn the
girl on him.
>Should I open them both then just ignore the guy(s) and game the girl
only if you discover they are NOT BF and GF.
>or should I just ignore the guy(s) right from the get go and game the target
immediately and if he talks shit then out alpha?
only if you discover (either before entry into the set or after) that he JUST
came into the set and is unimportant to her or if important, you can befriend
him and make him beta himself to you.
there is a distinction between getting a guy to beta himself to you and you
trying to alpha.
>2)Most importantly, TD says that his club method is different from the 13
steps (MM) he just goes in and games the target and he succeeds at pulling TOP
SHB's from ANY club.
We internalize phases into our motor-response and dont actually THINK about the
phases anymore. Having internalized the method we are simply INTUITIVE. this is
called LARGE CHUNKING. I dont have to think of all the small things I do when
going from point A to point B in a car. I just do is, but there was a time I
small chunked the process into many phases such as "turn on blinker, check my
blind spot, then change lanes". The last time I saw him perform in field
(several months ago) his indirect opening, use of time constraints, negs to
target and dhvs to obstacles, kino tests, and more seemed very mystery
methodical, even if he didnt specifically contemplate what phase he was in.
>However, he said it may not work for pulling a Hollywood actress.
His game is calibrated to getting hot young girls who little social status.
Mystery's game is calibrated to getting hot young girls with a lot of social
status. (the hard part if FINDING them, though once he finds them Mystery's
game delivers the goods).
>At this point I'm not overly concerned with that anyway. So since TD obviously
knows the 13 steps inside out and YET he just goes up to the target as his
primary club method then wouldn't it make sense for me to do the same thing.
to know the 13 steps in and out, internalize it into your motor response and
not think about it so you develop an intuition that is responsive and accurate?
certainly.
>Besides disarming these unfriendly obstacles is starting to be a pain.
agreed. many amog battles can be disarmed by cleverly befriending the amog,
saving you potential stress (and a bleeding nose). saying "ive got to introduce
you to this gorgeous blond I cant seem to win over. you are so her type. she'll
be here in 10 minutes. ill introduce you when she gets here whats your name" is
better than "cool dude, gay bars over there ".
>Plus I'm better at attracting my target then befriending her peers. See lay
reports from this weekend ;)
its one thing to attract the target. but when they are all driving home
together, what will the peer group say about you to the target in the car? "oh
my god he is awesome!" or "he looked weird"?
>3) Is TD suggesting you open the group first (like MM) then immediately switch
to the target or do you just walk right up to the target using CF and busting
on her in front of her friends to get her attracted and make her friends like
you for teasing her?
Im curious about that too.
>In summary I'm reading his post and I'm thinking here I am trying to disarm
obstacles, telling them stories while trying simultaneously to neg my target
while Tyler Durden, who has taken WORK SHOPS on these tactics doesn't even use
them as his primary club method!!!
so the question is, does he neg the target (in an effort to disarm the
obstacles and challenge the target) and dhv to the obstacles in order to
befriend them and attract the target, or does he go straight to the target and
bust on her directly to the delight of the obsterving peergroup (this might
work i donno) and then when (if) they get pissy, amog blast them?
>Now I'm as confused as a whore in church ;) From the archives I read that
Mystery really emphasizes befriending ALL obstacles first ESPECIALLY the guys.
Whereas TD seems to stress AMOGing guys and focusing more on the target than
obstacles. I'm sure they both work it's just a little confusing trying to
figure out the best strategy to use.
Thanks for any insights.
very good question. as I see it, AMOG BEFRIENDING is more versatile and safe
than AMOG BLASTING because you get to show you are an alphamale too (see, the
girl will likely know the guy IS an alpha already), and you dont have a higher
risk of bleeding nose. however, sometimes you have to amog blast so that you
can defuse a potential out-alpha attempt before it occurs. out-alphaing is also
an opportunity to prove you are an alpha and brave however. I use either
BEFRIENDING, PRE-FIGHT POSTURING "step the fuck down" (which only happens if
befriending doesnt work and he gets dangerous) and BOOTING (getting him booted
from the club). To be honest, I only amog blast my wings for shits and giggles
(like when Style blasts me playfully and few times with some good zingers and I
reply, "how can I compete? While Im out with girls, you're at home alone on
your computer for hours researching and rehearsing all these great zingers in a
mirror". haa. great fun and good times had by all ... and it shows our
comradery in front of a set.
>PS: My gut is telling me to first focus on gaming the target ASAP then in the
future move to the 13 steps for specific targets.
That's like trying to work a single WITHIN a group. you alienate the group that
way, creating dragaway girls, cockblocks and amogs for yourself needlessly.
Stick to the group theory gameplan. I wont steer you wrong.
Love !Mystery
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