mASF post by "Dimitri"
posted on: mASF forum: Field Reports Discussion, March 3, 2004
The good Doc Owl... Hey, man, just wanted to say some of your material's been
golden for me. Rockin'.
Anywho, 'fore I start, let me disclaim that I'm not a club guy. I'm a street
guy, so I run street mostly, but I think I've got some relevant things to
say... just take 'em with a grain of street salt (I know that doesn't make any
sense, but it sounds cool).
On 3/21/04 9:23:00 PM, DoctorOwl wrote:
>This FR is long, but skip to
>the question section at the
>end if you get bored. In
>January I had awesome club
>game, but it has declined into
>approach anxiety and being
>blown out of set, ever since I
>started focusing on my day
>game
Why? How? Why? Man, your game doesn't "go away": If you hit a stagnant period,
accept it, and move on. You've got skills, remember it, and keep going, man.
>(which is now awesome
>instead). Last Tuesday I had
>a really awesome club night,
>and am focusing on blasting
>sticking points.
Coolness.
>I went out with ProfessorFink
>(PF), put together some
>affirmations and lines, and
>dug out an old list I was
>using around January which had
>served me well. It was a good
>night. I crashed a lot to
>start with, recovered some
>tricky sets, and did one
>AWESOME set. But it brought
>up some wierd shit questions,
>which I put at the end.
>
>Affirmations
>- You outnumber people by
>knowing what the fuck is going
>on. (For entering large sets).
This seems a little combative to me... Maybe take some of the opposition
dynamic out of it? "I have amazing skills and abilities that'll let a woman and
I experience amazing pleasure together" or some such? I don't really do
affirmations too much, but getting sucked into the me/us versuses them dynamic
can be kinda bad news.
>- Can you deal with the
>outcome of opening a set? If
>so, do it. (Before every set
>tonight I decided I could
>survive even if they totally
>blew me out).
Rockin'.
>Things To Field Test
>- Time constraint every set,
>move them, cut the fuck in,
>oversell the extraction
>- Smile more, look more fun,
>but low energy
>- Back peddle if I go too
>cocky
>- "Hey attention deficit
>disorder, show's over here,
>come check this out, I need a
>female opinion ..."
>
>Routine List
>- Wheelchair / 80's /
>Barrymore / Blonde Hair /
>Flossing
>- Time Constraint
>- Best Friends / Snoopy /
>Terrorists
>- Sumo Bodyguards
>- Gothic Couple
>- Trust Test, Ice Cream
>Buddies, Love
>- 24/4, Soap
>- Hate, Slaps / Thumbs /
>Hi-5's / Handshake
>- Embarassing Story
>- 4 Zones
>- Cube
>- Evo Shift
>- Gay Cows
>- Taiko
>- Mischellaneous Fallbacks
>(Genuine / Moving House /
>Prefer / Lion Game / Stop /
>Permission)
You've got some hardcore ammunition here, bro :)
That's cool as hell... but are you ready to drop it and fly by the seat of your
pants? You need to be able to do both, consistently, at any time, to get max
results.
>Set 01
>------
>3 set in Elephant and
>Wheelbarrow, I open with 80's,
>and then Nun & Priest, but one
>of the girls starts saying
>"Hahaha, you can fuck off
>now." The set body language
>closed me out, I said "Wait
>I'm not finished yet" ready to
>plow on with another routine,
>but just backturned and left
>it instead.
I've always had a hard time explaining how to do this, but I think you've got
the skills to apply the tonality and stuff on your own:
Try to disregard the rejection and reject her yourself, sometime, when you run
into this.
Bitch: "Hahahaha, you can fuck off now."
PUA: "You... You're not very nice. Goodbye."
Or some such. Tonality is similar to what you'd be saying to someone who just
advocated genocide or talking about beating a puppy for fun.
>After: I think I ran Nun &
>Priest way too early, I've
>never tried it before. I
>should have back peddled and
>tried to enter the set again
>with something else.
>
>Set 02
>------
>Right next to the previous
>set, there is a 2 set. I open
>with "Save us" 'Who from?'
>"From the creepy girls behind
>us, is this bar tough, because
>they were just like fuck off.
>We're new here".
Ahahahahahaha! That's awesome.
>They say
>they've never been here
>before. I run best friends
>test, and then little sister,
>and they laugh their asses
>off. One comments I mixed
>them up in the angel/devil
>bit, and their body language
>turns away! PF thinks they
>were part of the first set.
>
>After: Really not sure about
>this one, both laughed crazily
>but one girl ended up turning
>away while the other was
>grabbing at my attention. I
>dropped the ball when I didn't
>just continue with her,
>instead I saw the "set" was
>broken up and I just ejected.
>
>Also at the time I thought
>there was some timing
>principle between when they
>stop laughing, and when I run
>my next routine, as they seem
>to finish laughing and then
>leave, and I don't run
>routines while they're
>laughing, and there seemed
>something odd there.
Some women are just odd, eh? Never can be sure.
>Set 03
>------
>Re-opened Japanese girl (Mie)
>I number closed at the front
>of The Church a few months
>ago, that saw me making out
>with another Japanese girl at
>a club on Tuesday. AMOGd the
>Japanese guy with her very
>slightly but he didn't speak
>much english.
Okay, Asians, Asians are my field of study. Let me say, straight up, and
indisputeably, NEVER AMOG AN ASIAN GUY FROM ASIA. Trust me on this one. He
poses no threat, and will, most likely, be very nice and respectful to you, at
least to your face. And if he's talking shit to you in Japanese AND being nice
to your face, then he's supplicating.
It's totally unnecessary to AMOG most Asian guys, and in my opinion, amogging
"innocents" is kind of shitty. You don't gain from doing this unless he does
something to prompt it, and after lots of time with Asians, I've got to highly
recommend not doing this.
>Ejected, kicked
>her gently as I was leaving,
>no kino ping.
>
>After: Learned nothing except
>that I should have done
>something.
But alrighty, it's not a huge deal. I emphasize the point because it's a
truism, but violating it doesn't bring about bad results, really.
Anyway, yeah, you should've stayed and done something. Especially if you
already had her number, running more game is good. It seems like she's known
you longer than she really has, too, which can help the interaction along.
>Set 04
>------
>3 set in Dean, two guys one
>girl. Open with 80's, time
>constraint, best friends,
>bodyguards, crossword story (I
>transitioned into it with "hey
>but you know the wierdest
>thing about tonight was ..."
>and it seemed totally
>natural). They guy piped in
>his own story about some 70yo
>guy today doing a wheelie on a
>bike. I was caught totally
>off guard and forgot the next
>thing on my list. Ejected.
>
>After: Beat the list into my
>head after that one and didn't
>forget it for the rest of the
>night.
I'd say not be so stuck to the scriptedness and be able to improv a little, but
yeah, knowing your material isn't bad.
>Set 05
>------
>PF opens a 2 set at a table in
>Dean with Blonde Hair, ejects
>quickly as it didn't go to
>well. I think the body
>language could have been
>confrontational, but didn't
>get to hear him do the routine
>as I was talking to another
>guy.
>
>Set 06
>------
>Seated 3 set in Bass, opened
>with 80's, Time Constraint,
>Sit, Cold Read, Best Friends,
>then the hottest girl starts
>shit testing me hard. "Oh you
>think you know everything
>about us. Who the fuck are
>you." After that I plow with
>little sister, and start
>stalling out as she's just
>constantly saying "Fuck off,
>get the fuck away, fuck off."
>They start shit testing me on
>using "pickup lines", I'm
>telling them not to get their
>hopes up I'm not that easy.
>
>PF rolls in, they start shit
>testing us on being gay. We
>fail the shit test, "We're not
>gay", she just stays in that
>frame of hers and keeps
>telling us to fuck off.
>Eventually I tell her she's
>rude and eject. I listened to
>about 10 minutes of "Fuck off"
>though, and also ate some of
>their pretzels.
>
>After: Horrible set, they
>couldn't think of any 80's
>stuff and when I time
>constrainted and sat down she
>started to get really bitchy.
>I think during best friends I
>ran the ADD line and she just
>went fucking insane. Failed
>the gay test, I should have
>just said "Yeah, hey man let's
>go fuck after this". A really
>horrible set.
>
>Set 07
>------
>2 set of Japanese girls in
>Rise. Modified my list on the
>fly for Japanese. Marriage,
>Age, University, Pen Flick,
>Snoopy Cold Read Then I went
>partially rapport, peppered in
>stories, and Trust Test.
Modified for Japanese? Okay, I'll bite: Could you tell me University and
Snoopy, por favor?
>Stood one girl up (Yumi, her
>friend was Yuka), and took her
>bar stool, then stood her
>between my legs.
Niiiiiice. Perfect.
>Plenty of kino, ran slap game,
>rapport about jewelry and
>stuff, tickling, handshakes,
>tension test. Got a massage,
>drank some of her beer, and at
>about 20 minutes there was a
>moment of silent and they
>girl-coded and left.
>
>After: I knew it was time to
>drag her away and make-out,
>but I didn't, and so I lost
>the set. She was so into me,
>it was so on. Funny that she
>went to the toilet alone at
>one stage, and came back and
>stood far away, so I motioned
>her over and stood her between
>my legs again and didn't leave
>or say anything bad about it.
>Best set of the night, with
>the most potential.
Gack! Why didn't you do anything more, man? Push push push PUSH! You're a good
PUA, you know you should've ;)
At least could've calmed her down and grabbed her number at the point at the
end, then maybe try for an extraction to eatery or some such.
>Set 08
>------
>3 set of older girls at the
>Dean. One was hot, mid 20's,
>one was average late 20's, the
>other was ugly and 30's.
>Opened with Wheelchair, and
>ran the "ADD" line on the girl
>in the middle. She got super
>offended, I did a sincere
>apology, and that opened the
>other 2 chicks in the set up
>TOTALLY. Plowed with various
>routines including Nancy Drew,
>she grabbed for rapport really
>hard to start with, I played
>aloof and talked to the rest
>of the set.
>
>Later on she starts shit
>testing hard, especially on my
>wrist gear, asking where it's
>from, why I wear it, and the
>others chime in about my
>sunglasses (on my head). I
>run the beer goggles routine,
>then play hot hands with one
>of them. Ran a bit of
>Swingcat, then got a boyfriend
>objection from one girl about
>the girl I ran it on. Ignored
>it but stalled soon after and
>ejected.
>
>
>After: I knew I needed to
>isolate the boyfriend one at
>that point, but didn't want to
>because they said he works in
>the club. First time I tried
>a massive back peddle after
>turning a chick in the set
>fully cold, and it worked
>fine.
>
>Set 09
>------
>PG opens a cute 2 set in the
>Paramount with Blonde Hair,
>Crosswords, Queer Eye, Best
>Friends, and Buying Drinks. I
>roll in when the girls are
>pointing at me and talking
>something about me (I don't
>know what), and get an
>accomplishment intro, but the
>set suddenly goes cold. PG
>recovers, I call my girl a
>Gummy Bear for bouncing around
>so much, then run Swingcat and
>I get kino happening and the
>set is warm again. We all
>play slaps, I think it's game
>on to isolate the girls, but
>at this stage they have to go
>(had mentioned it early) to
>get into an expensive club we
>can't afford. Damn.
>
>After: Should isolate at the
>first moment it seems
>possible.
Agree.
>Set 10
>------
>Re-open girl from University
>in a restaurant. Can't be
>fucked typing it out. She was
>all over me, of course she's
>ugly.
>
>After: I'm a sexy sexy man.
Damn ugly women.
>Set 11
>------
>PF opens a 2 set with Blonde
>Hair at Alto's Kebab Store
>that I thought would go easy,
>the average one goes straight
>for rapport and the hot one
>just starts shit testing
>straight away then asking if
>we're gay (I'm sitting a table
>away eating my kebab). I roll
>in and ran a gay routine and
>drag him away, the set was
>already lost. Not sure why
>this happened, I wasn't even
>in the set.
>
>After: I'm a sexy sexy gay
>man.
Why...? Why'd you drag your wing away? Shit testing is a *good* sign... and if
you're doing the too-cool-to-talk-to-you-and-eating-anyway thing, that's all
the better. Sounds like you guys were pretty in at this point 'fore you dragged
your man out.
>Set 12
>------
>Opened a seated 2 set with
>Papa's Sincere Compliment
>routine, opens fine, stacked
>the 80's on it but they
>couldn't think of any names,
>and one gets a phone call part
>way through. I finish the
>routine and eject.
>
>After: Should have stuck this
>one out but was getting
>fucking tired and irratable.
Yeah, it's supposed to be fun. When it's stopped being fun, it's time to do
something else. S'my rule, anyway.
>Set 13
>------
>Re-opened by 2 set from
>University (Leora and her
>friend). They leave shortly
>after, total brain drained for
>routines.
>
>After: Should have quickly
>number closed, but Coolwater
>has one of their number's
>anyway. Should definately
>follow this set up, both
>chicks love me
>unconditionally.
Nice.
>Questions
>- With most of the sets I take
>to make-out and extraction
>(especially on day game), I'll
>run them solidly with very
>little cocky funny and not get
>shit tested. When you get
>shit tested massively by every
>set in a night, what does it
>mean, is it good that they see
>you as a threat or bad that
>you showed up as a blip on
>their radar?
It's a very good thing. Shit testing means a woman is starting to get hot for
you, and wants to see if you're the real deal and wants to have you help kick
her out of state. When you pass or dismiss shittests, women get hotter for
you... I forget which PUA originally said, "The easiest way to get laid is to
provoke shit tests, then pass them." Well, I disagree and think social circle
is the easiest way to get laid, but the shit test method is pretty damn good ;)
> And is it a
>response to detecting some
>incongruency, which would be
>wierd because I've been
>running this material for over
>a year now?
Incongruency will provoke shit testing sometimes, but when you pass, they get
more attracted (and being perfectly congruent with provoke shit testing
sometimes). Now, Formhandle has written that ASD removal is more important than
attraction, and often, passing shit tests won't remove ASD except to the effect
that your value goes up, and women don't feel slutty with a really desireable
guy.
>- Do you ever run sets that
>part way through will just
>start saying you're running
>lines on them, and no matter
>what you say after that
>they'll just go that's a line,
>that's a line, you can't even
>tell a story they're just
>stuck into this fucked up
>frame about lines, EVEN IF YOU
>JUST FREESTYLED the whole
>thing?
They pegged you as running lines, and it was all over. It's like being tiny
Mario at the last castle with one life... you've got a chance, if you're good,
but you don't have a very good chance.
Anyway, maybe go try a day without trying to run material? Like, go out, and
make your goal to run no old material... some of it will come up naturally when
it fits, and then it's okay to keep going, but just try to be chill,
circumstantial, flow, vibe, conversate (is this really a word or am I listening
to too much rap? Time to Merriam-Webster it after this response...), and so on.
Material dependency can be like alcoholism: Drinking is a cool thing if you can
do it wisely and don't *need* the alcohol...
>- Have you ever noticed when a
>set is really fired up, and
>you know you can get the
>make-out then and there, and
>isolate or extract and
>progress the sarge properly
>... but then you skip the
>make-out and just keep plowing
>or let it stale for a minute
>or so, the set will get wierd
>and leave?
Yes. Happens with lone-wolves too, to a lesser extent.
>Is it like they
>hit buying temperature, and
>when you don't make a move,
>their state drops and they
>realise they were about to
>make-out with a stranger, so
>they eject? Or they just feel
>uncomfortable? Or they detect
>that you just consciously
>skipped a step?
I have no fucking idea. Harmless has referred to this as "missing the phase
shift". Whatever you want to call it, it's fucking death. I've lost *lots* of
women by going too slow at certain points, then they get all guarded and
withdrawn and it's over. It's fucking terrible.
Anyway, once you're able to recognize when you should phase shift, just grab
the bull by the horns with one hand, your balls with the other, and do it. Game
on.
>DoctorOwl
DoctorOwl, again, I want to say thanks for some of the shit you've posted. You
seem like a really cool guy.
I don't know how much you've been reading the board lately, but I'd recommend
checking out the following recent/semi-recent Advanced posts:
"Attraction Not Necessary" by Formhandle,
"Have You Become a Social Robot?" by Style,
and
"Screening chicks and the dynamics of day-2 meets" by Dreem.
The last one is about screening women and how important it is: It's a *gold*
post, and from my experience, applicable less to drunk party girls, but still
applicable, indeed: This might or might not help a little with your problems of
getting a "fuck you, go away" woman or an interaction stalling out, if you just
remember YOU are qualifying THEM. If the attraction starts to stall, just start
qualifying in a neat way: "Valentine's Day: Bullshit or not?" is a decent one
if it's *not* just before or after Valentine's Day (then it doesn't work at
all... I could speculate about why this is, but I'll refrain from doing so
here). Anyway, that's a decent one... If they say it's not, you can qualify to
make sure they're cool and not gold diggers, if they say it's bullshit you can
qualify on a romantic/sentimental level to make sure they're not jaded and
heartless. Or you can agree with whichever they say if you do agree, and be
taken... depends on how much value you want to assign them at that point.
But yeah, shit like that. When in doubt, chill out and start trying to find out
if the women are cool enough to run with *YOU*.
And damn, man, "make the ho say no". That's, like, rule number one. Erm, maybe
rule number one was "be fuckin sexual, people". But persist! Much better to
lose a set by pushing her and trying to kiss/extract her then losing her by
ejecting or her leaving and wonder if it could've been... even if it doesn't go
over, I've found a woman has more respect for a man that tries to push when he
shouldn't than one who doesn't push when he should.
G'luck, man, keep with it. I love the material and hope to see more good stuff
comin' out soon.
Grandmaster Dimitri, Swash-Buckling Pick-Up Artist-
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