mASF post by "TylerDurden"
posted on: mASF forum: Advanced Discussion, April 4, 2005Wow, this is a monster post. Thanks for posting this - it gives a more clear
idea of where you guys are coming from.
One thing that I noticed about the post that a lot of guys may have glossed
over was the idea that guys sort of "tag" their confidence to something. So
when a guy uses a pre-planned opener and routine stack there are good sides and
bad sides.
The good side is that the guy finally for the first time in their lives will
have an IOI thrown their way. From that, they can start to build confidence.
They can build confidence through having an idea of what the good beliefs are
(basically, the mrsex4unyc or DYD based stuff, that is also now popularized on
the chat forum by badboy and swinggcat), and from there going out and getting
the experience so that your reality comes into alignment with the beliefs that
you are trying to take on.
But the downside is two things, as you said. First (and I did this myself when
I came into the game as a newbie), you wind up an IOI junkie, where you
literally feel uncomfortable if you don't have IOIs - to a point where you wind
up being a try-hard when things go neutral. And second, you use your material
as a way of saying "I got rejected because my material delivery was off," which
is really great at first but eventually becomes addicting. As you said, it
allows guys to "avoid facing a larger problem."
A symptom of this is when a guy will see a girl at school that he met at a club
the week before, and his mind is scrambling to remember which routines he has
used before so that he can throw her back into state. He stumbles all over
himself, and winds up visibly trying too hard.
It was exactly for what you're saying here in this post that I had to
re-structure the RSD programs last year to a policy where guys weren't to be
taught anything technical until they could use a natural style game first. I
got the idea from badboy, when I read about the success he was having by
focusing less on structure. The biggest reason for that is their THOUGHT
PROCESS. If a guy is trained to think "Try to remember what I was told to
say," from out the gate, then he won't learn to think "I'm good enough to say
what I want to say."
At the same time, being able to learn game in this way is perhaps a luxury of a
guy being able to afford to take a pickup workshopIf I'm there coaching the
guy live, I can pump his state and tell him to talk louder and I can
demonstrate it myself. But 99% of guys on this forum will never take a
workshop, either out of lack of resources or even more commonly out of
stubbornness. And I wonder if its realistic for them to start off with a
purely natural game». I've always preached to newbies on the forum "Just get an
opener and a few stories, and get out there and start approaching." Could it
be possible to create a newbie mission where the only goal is to "Just go talk
to girls"?
Of course, your topic is here a "transition" to natural game». So perhaps that
is the best course. But then, perhaps this also reflects the next phase in
your own game as well. Because in the same way that a guy can find a bit of
success but then be held back by a purely outer-game based approach, getting
caught up in a purely inner-game based approach can create a bias that holds
you back as well.
Ultimately, the game is about transitions, and continuing to develop both your
inner and outer game at the same time. If you develop an approach that is
built primarily to foster the growth of your inner game», then just like an
outer-game based approach, your strongest move is to eventually transition
towards what is known to work most consistently. As Style said in his post
about IVDs, "The best PUAs do what will work every time." It is for that
reason that Style doesn't get the lack of consistency that you're referring to
as "screening" in this post.
But then, as Razorjack would say, perhaps you play the game as you want to play
it. And as long as it is truly a proactive decision, and not one born of
stubbornness, then you are in good shape.
Anyway, you have some great points in here that I wanted to expand on, as well
as to raise some counter-points that you may have not considered. Great,
enjoyable article. Thanks for sharing your ideas. You haven't coated what you
have to say in emotional rhetoric like "A *real* man does it like *this*.." as
is often the case. You're just saying what you think, and offering a linear
discussion of where you're coming from - which is one of the reasons I enjoy
replying to yours and Dimitri's posts. I'd love to see more guys sharing their
ideas as you have here.
-TD
RSD (c) 2005
100% Content - 0 % Political Flame Bullshit
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