mASF post by "Formhandle"
posted on: USENet: alt.seduction.fast newsgroup, November 11, 2000I will try to post this one per week.
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The Most Predominantly Acceptable ASF (Alt.Seduction.Fast) FAQ
==============================================================
Most recently modified on: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 16:29:28
Sections
--------
1. Introduction (about this FAQ and ASF)
2. Purpose of ASF
3. Rules for ASF
4. ASF Resources
5. Commonly Used Terms
6. Commonly Asked Questions
7. Speed Seduction FAQ
8. Contact/Credit Information
9. Copyright notice
Introduction (about this FAQ and ASF)
-------------------------------------
1. Where can I find the latest version of this document?
There are a few official mirror sites for this document (both in
ASCII form and HTML form):
1. http://www.fastseduction.com/asf-faq.shtml (primary)
2. http://www.pickupguide.com/cgi-bin/asf-faq.cgi
3. http://metabork.fr.eu.org/~nathan/ (not synced up yet)
If you would like to mirror this document, please don't do so
without first contacting one of the authors for permission and
instructions. For convenience, this FAQ will be auto-posted to ASF
in ASCII form on a regular basis.
2. What is ASF?
ASF stands for "alt.seduction.fast" which is an Internet Usenet
newsgroup. ASF is a communication forum for discussing various fast
pick up and seduction techniques. It is a group for discussing how
to pick up women, fast; as opposed to discussing marriage theory.
3. Where is the Charter for ASF?
Who cares? Currently, there is no reliable source for retrieving the
original creation request ("control" message) or any alleged Charter
which may have been included in such a request. Therefore, the best
current and future source of information regarding the ASF newsgroup
is this FAQ.
4. Who created ASF?
It doesn't really matter anymore. But, it has been alleged that the
creation of the group (sometime in late 1994) was requested by a man
named Ross Jeffries for the purpose of discussing his commercial
product, Speed Seduction. The rest of this document will help
clarify the current position and purpose of ASF.
5. Is ASF a moderated newsgroup?
No, ASF has no moderators and has never been officially moderated.
6. Is there an official ddministrator for ASF?
No, ASF has no administrators, although some occasional posters on
ASF might claim they administer the group or are the "official FAQ
admin". It is best to ignore such claims by those people, and
perhaps ignore those posters entirely.
7. What is the purpose of this FAQ?
The purpose of this document is to help new and current users of ASF
understand what the forum is about, what rules may exist for
becoming involved with discussions, and how to get the most out of
the forum. This FAQ will give the reader a healthy head start on
what ASF is all about.
Purpose of ASF
--------------
The ASF newsgroup was allegedly created for at least the partial
purpose of Speed Seduction, a commercial product based on using NLP
(Neuro-Linguistic Programming) in combination with various verbal
seduction techniques, with the additional expectation that users of
the forum could also discuss other, general [fast] seduction
techniques. Since there is no reliable source for an original group
Charter, it's not possible to completely confirm this. Therefore,
the best inferences that can be made about the core purpose of the
group is based on a number of quantifiable factors:
1. The name of the group in the alt. hierarchy.
2. The majority and type of posts appearing on the group in the
past year (prior to the creation of this FAQ).
3. The voiced opinions of a number of regular posters to ASF.
The purpose of ASF is for discussing how to pick up women, fast,
using a number of techniques. These techniques are constantly being
tested and improved upon by the posters of ASF. This includes ideas
on initial contact with women, various ways of quickly attracting a
woman, avoiding pitfalls and common mistakes, and learning from the
ideas, successes, and failures of others. One good example of how
this process works takes the form of regular "Outing/Field Reports"
which are descriptions of the steps people have taken in various
situations and how those situations turned out. The rest of the
group can then analyze this material, critique it, make suggestions,
and use it as a model for their own pick up attempts. It's one big
learning process.
Rules for ASF
-------------
In order to keep the group sane, useful, and within reasonable
order, it is requested that posters to the group follow the rules
outlined below (as well as the Usenet posting rules their ISP has
mandated upon them). If you do not wish to follow these rules,
please do not post to the group.
1. SPAMMING
No spam of any kind is allowed on ASF. If you have a product to sell
or a commercial web site to advertise, don't try to sell it or
advertise it to the readers of the group. It's perfectly normal to
discuss commercial products within the bounds of a conversation but
blatant, unbiased advertising for any product will not be tolerated.
Posting such material will likely result in a number of the regular
posters reporting you to your ISP's abuse department.
2. GROUP DISRUPTION
Sometimes conversations can get pretty heated. Sometimes heated
discussions go so far off-topic that many readers of the group will
become extremely agitated. This behavior is called a "group
disruption" and is very damaging to the ongoing usefulness of the
group. If you end up creating 2 or more group disruptons, you may be
asked to stop posting, cool off, or get back on topic by other
people in the group. Ignoring such a request and continuing to
blatantly disrupt the group will likely result in a number of the
regular posters reporting you to your ISP's abuse department. Note
that simply arguing or disagreeing with somebody is not necessarily
a disruption of the group. Doing that, getting completely off-topic,
and annoying people all at the same time is considered a group
disruption.
3. FLAMING
If you need to flame someone, take it to alt.flame. If you disagree
with someone's opinion, please respect the purpose of the group and
disagree quietly if you can. If a discussion can't help but get
heated, you take the risk of causing a group disruption (as outlined
in item 2.) if the argument is taken too far or goes too far off-
topic.
4. CROSSPOSTING
Crossposting is permitted as long as the groups being crossposted to
are within the topical sphere of ASF and the readers of the other
group(s) do not object to your post. However, posters are asked to
keep their crossposting to a minimum. Lurk on a group before posting
to it so that you get a good dea of what the acceptable topics are.
Your ISP may also have their own restrictions in place regarding
crossposted articles.
5. PERSONAL ADS
ASF is not an appropriate place to post a personal advertisements.
Do not post personal ads in ASF.
6. DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.
If you detect somebody is trolling the group, possibly trying to
cause a subtle disruption, please simply reply that you believe the
person is a troll and end it at that. See item 3. If you feel the
need to respond to a troll, please try to at least be concise (and
witty).
7. PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC
What is on-topic for ASF? Basically, any discussion about seduction
techniques and methods which help achieve the goal of finding,
meeting, and attracting women quickly. Some posters will want to
focus on a specific method they may use, while others use a
combination of various methods. Ask yourself this question before
you post. "Will this post serve to advance my knowledge or other
peoples' knowledge of fast seduction techniques and their practical
applications?" If the answer is yes, post it. Else, keep it to
yourself.
ASF Resources
-------------
The best resources for ASF information (beyond the group itself),
along with a searchable posting archive, related links, hand-picked
useful posts, etc. can be found at:
Formhandle's site:
Fast Seduction 101 - http://www.fastseduction.com/
ASF searchable archive (mostly spam-free), public and private web
boards, links archive, common terms list, Pick up Artists
International Registry (PAIR)
Maniac's site (includes an archived copy of "Tony's Lay Guide"):
http://www.pickupguide.com/
Hand-picked posts of interest from ASF with useful commentary. More
links to other pages of interest. Also a private area (see Nathan's
site info below regarding private area access).
Nathan's site:
http://metabork.fr.eu.org/~nathan/
Nathan maintains a password-protected area on his site referred to
as the "Lounge" or "Nathan's Lounge". It is a restricted part of
Nathan's site where selected members can post their own pick-up
photos and view others'. The site is restricted to respect people's
privacy. Access is granted to regular posters, and for security
reasons new members are added sparingly. Contact Nathan if you wish
to get a password, that will also open up Maniac's private page.
Kill Filters:
A useful, growing list of Kill Filters for ASF (if your newsreader
or newsfeed supports filters based on regular expressions) can be
found at:
http://www.fastseduction.com/filters.shtml
Recommended reading:
For newbies to ASF, it's a good idea to read the archived
newsletters at:
http://www.seduction.com/news/
The newsletters may sound like informecials, but they are a must
read to give you a good head start on the general fast pick up and
seduction ideas behind a lot of the stuff posted on ASF.
Commonly Used Terms
-------------------
The most up-to-date listing of the most commonly use acronyms,
slang, and terms used on ASF can be found at:
http://www.fastseduction.com/acronyms.shtml
Commonly Asked Questions
------------------------
This list of questions is currently being compiled and is a work in
progress. We will make our best effort to associate any answer that
directly references a particular person's public posting with that
person and make our best effort in good faith to place a credit
notice next to any answer which is believed to be credited to
another someone else. If you have suggestions or additions for the
questions/answers on this list, you can contact one of the FAQ
authors (contact info at bottom of FAQ).
Q: Where can I meet women?
A: Just about anywhere. Location is really not too important. The
obviously blatant pick up places like clubs and bars will have more
potentially available women but that scene is also difficult to
succeed in if you have no pick up skills. When starting out, you can
use those places as practice. Think of it as a game where winning or
losing doesn't matter - it's the fun of seeing what responses you
get that's important. Anywhere you find a woman that attracts you is
a great opportunity to say something new, different. Study the
responses, adjust your responses from past results and eventually
you'll see that women can be met anywhere - the trick is attracting
them once you find them.
Q: How do I approach women?
A: Quickly and without hesitation. The more you think about what you
want to say and how you want to say it, the more likely it is that
you'll discourage yourself from the actual approach. You must act so
quickly that you don't have time to think. Say the first thing that
comes to mind. If nothing comes to mind say "Hi, I noticed something
about you..." Then pause and wait for her to say "What? What did you
notice?" (women are intensely curious when such a comment is made to
them). The few seconds it takes her to get impatient and ask you
what you noticed is probably enough time for you to take a closer
look at her and actually find something to say. "I noticed you're
halfway through the book you're reading - what's it about?" or "I
noticed the deep tan you have - did you just come back from a
tropical vacation?" Whatever - anything that could possibly lead to
a continued conversation. The more answers you're able to get out of
her, the more questions you end up being able to ask until
eventually a full blown conversation takes place and you get a
better opportunity to create rapport with her - a connection.
Q: How can I hide my nervousness around a woman? How can I fix my
shyness?
A: What makes you nervous is taking yourself too seriously and
thinking too much about what she thinks (or will think) of you.
Shyness can't be fixed or hidden - you simply have to disregard the
negative thoughts your mind is telling you. Approaching women
quickly, more often, and without thinking about what you're going to
say first will strengthen your resolve over time and deminish those
types of thoughts running through your mind. Never approach a woman
thinking "I must absolutely make a good first impression or she'll
never..." Instead think, "I wonder what she'll do when I tell her X,
Y , or Z" and don't worry so much that she might not respond the way
you want - most women won't. At least not until you've gained
rapport and a chance to lead the onversation (and her) in the
direction you want to go.
Q: How does height (or generally the way one looks, or how old one
is) influence success with women?
A: It doesn't influence success all that much. Frankly, the only
time it matters is if there are other guys attracting her attention
in the immediate vicinity who are taller/younger/richer/etc. AND
have a personality edge over you. If you find yourself in those
types of situations too often, you need to improve your personality
and charisma or change your environment when finding women to pick
up.
Q: How can I build and improve my self-confidence and charm?
A: Start simple. Don't try everything you've learned all at once.
Approach many women. Say whatever comes to mind. Study the
responses. Carry it as far as you can go and if it doesn't work out,
find another woman and try again. Over time, not only will you learn
how to quickly gain rapport with almost any woman, you'll aslo
gradually gain confidence, quick-thinking for immediate conversation
starters, and the ability to stretch "fluff talk" long enough to
elicit her values (her value words) which can then help you lead the
conversation. For example, if she says "I like bright colors..." or
"It's a really bright day out..." then you can ask "What is it about
bright, colorful things that you like so much? She might respond
"They remind me of my youth - carefree times". Then you can lead the
conversation into things that associate you with memories of her
youth, and reinforce the idea that you are a carefree person.
Practice methods like this over and over with different woment until
it becomes part of your nature. You will then have self-confidence
and charm without ever thinking about it.
Q: Do commercially sold pheromones work to help attract women?
A: Although pheromones have been scientifically proven to affect
mating actions in various creatures, there's been no conclusive
study done on humans. So, until that happens, the answer is NO. The
most potent attraction tool you can ever use is your brain.
Q: What is wrong with me?
A: Nothing. Any doubt you have in yourself is insecurity you are
emanating to others. If you don't like yourself, how do you expect
others to like you? If you ever find yourself thinking "What is
wrong with me?", change the thought to "I can't wait for her to find
out what a great guy I am. It will be a shame for her if she doesn't
get the chance"
Q: What does a woman want to see in a man she just meets?
A: A man wo isn't like other men. Someone with the abiltity to
challenge her. A man who "knows what he wants and knows how to get
it."
Q: What does it mean when a woman says "I want a man who knows what
he wants and knows how to get it."?
A: ...when women say "I want a man who knows what he wants and knows
how to get it." she is actually saying: "I want to be chased. When a
man chases me, I feel better about myself." It also means she's in
control to a certain degree, and although I would say that she
THINKS she wants to be in control, she really doesn't because if the
man knows what he wants, then she's abdicating responsibility to a
degree and subsuming her desires for his.
~Hugh, ASF, 1999/04/15
Q: When is the best time to hug, kiss, or shake hands after meeting
a woman?
A: It depends on the situation, but don't think of it as "hugging,
kissing, or shaking hands." Think of it as basically physical
touching, and do it whenever it could come off as the most natural
thing to do. For example, when talking to a woman at a bar (which
might be crowded and noisy), lean in and talk very close into her
ear while touching the side of her arm or elbow. This type of
touching is also known as a "kinesthetic approach", kino for short.
You want to a women, soon after meeting her, to feel comfortable
(and possibly aroused) with this type of touching from you. It
displays to her that you are a sexual being and are not afraid to
move in close or make contact. Don't treat touching like a business
affair, treat it like subtle animalistic human contact. Your hand
stroking her hair, touching her hand, arm around her shoulder,
whispering in her hear and making sure your lips brush against her
lobes. That sort of thing. Obviously not done when first running
into a woman on the street but over time with practice you'll learn
when the right time is.
Q: Why don't women like "nice guys"? Why do they like "bad boys"?
A: Contrary to popular opinion, women do like nice guys. What they
don't like is guys who let women walk all over them. They don't want
a doormat and they don't want a supplicating fool. Women walk all
over nice guys because nice guys let them do it. Women *want* to be
treated like ladies, with respect and adoration, but they don't know
what to do when they are treated that way. They are simply not wired
to expect this sort of treatment from a man who could be a potential
mate. It's not the type of behaviour that arouses them. In fact, it
has the opposite affect. But that doesn't mean you need to be a "bad
boy" or jerk to get what you want, it just means that you have to
show women that you cannot be walked all over. It means you DON'T
supplicate yourself with a woman. Think of it like a reward system.
In order for you to do something nice for her, she MUST first do
something nice for you. Not the other way around. For example, past
posts from Nathan on ASF outlined the following example to explain
the reward system:
You're at a club/bar/whatever and see an attractive woman
sitting/standing alone waiting to pick up her drink or basically not
doing anything. Move in and say "If you buy me a drink, I'll let you
kiss me." Sure, it doesn't work in all scenarios, and doesn't work
with all guys/women or personality types but if you dissect the
problem, you'll notice a few key things you've portrayed to her in a
rather short comment:
You're a man who " knows what he wants and knows how to get it."
You don't supplicate by asking to buy her a drink. Instead, you
suggest she buys YOU a drink.
You're telling her that you'll "reward" her, but only if she
provides you with something you want.
The "reward" is actually something *you* want but it doesn't come
off that way.
You're fun and daring.
Once in a while, some woman will actually take you up on the offer
and not only do you turn the game around, but other women at the
club/bar/whetever will notice this (without knowing what you said to
her) and their own interest will be enhanched, opening up more
opportunities.
An average chump, on the other hand, will usually awkwardly hang
around the bar wand wait to find women who they can offer to buy
drinks FOR. Losers. AFCs. Supplicators. "Nice guys." They're the
first to get stepped on, used, then ignored, and the last to get
laid. These guys will call getting laid "getting lucky" because
that's what it takes for them to sucessfully seduce a woman - luck.
Q: If I'm not supposed to be a "nice guy", do I have to be a jerk?
A: Not in the least. The nice guy / jerk spectrum is too wide to
describe the actual personality you should be displaying to women.
People only think "jerks" because jerks never supplicate. But you
don't have to be a jerk to avoid supplication and you don't have to
be obnoxious to get what you want.
Q: How can I change my "nice guy" image?
A: What you want to do is learn the types of actions that might
label you an Average Frustrated Chump (AFC). Then avoid doing those
things. An example, don't bring a woman flowers if you're just
asking her to coffee. Don't ask for her number before conveying
personality and gaining rapport - in fact, don't ask for her number
at all directly. Let her figure that out when you end a conversation
and indicate you have somewhere else to be ("I enjoyed our
conversation. I have to go now - what do you think we need to do in
order to continue this at another time?"). If you've successfully
attracted her, she'll whip out a paper/pen because she'll WANT to
give you her number. Don't compliment her exessively when first
meeting her. Don't put her on a pedestal. Don't spend money or a lot
of time on a particular woman unless she's already reciprocated your
attempts at attention.
Q: What are the best openers (pick up lines) when meeting women?
Q: What is the best attitude to have when trying to attract women?
Q: What does one talk about when first approaching a girl? Should
certain topics be emphasized/avoided?
Q: How do I have a 1 on 1 conversation with a woman ("how do I talk
to women")?
Q: How do I convey personality?
Q: How do I make a woman see me as an opportunity rather than just
another guy?
Q: What does a woman mean when she says...?
Q: What's the best way to answer the question "What do you do for a
living?"
Q: Why do women do what they do (what is "chick logic")?
Q: Why don't (most) women ask men out?
Q: What is mirroring, how is it used, and what does it do?
Q: What is a neg hit?
Q: What is the 3s (3 second) rule?
Q: How can I know if she likes me?
Q: How do I get a woman who is not interested, to go out with me?
Q: What do I do if she says she has a boyfriend?
Q: How do I get a woman's phone number?
Q: What do I do or say if when I ask a women for her number, she
says "Why don't you give me YOUR number?"?
Q: How do I know the phone number she gave me is legit?
Q: After getting a woman's phone number, when should I call, what
should I say, how do I set up a date?
Q: What's a good message to leave on my answering machine?
A: "Hi, I'm not here to pick up the phone so leave your name and
number so I can get back to you later."
Q: What do I do If I get her answering machine?
A: Hang up. Unless you have a STRONG reason to believe that she will
definitely return your call in the next half hour, or unless you
have something EXTRAORDINARY to tell her, don't leave any messages.
And, if nobody has ever told you before, call-blocking is your
friend. You must make the assumption that every woman you will ever
call has Caller ID and screens her calls. Most areas in the US,
dialing *67 before making a call enables call blocking on your phone
number (it won't show up on a Caller ID device). Some phone
companies let you place a permanent block on your phone number.
Q: What do I do if she gives me a beeper number instead of her phone
number?
Q: How do I get women to come back to my place?
Q: How do I treat or deal with a woman who doesn't call back or
cancels dates?
A: It's too late. You didn't provide her with your rules up front.
Q: How can I avoid a woman telling me "Let's just be friends."?
Q: How do I turn a "friend" into a "lover", how can I get out of
LJBF ("Let's Just Be Friends") land, or I've just been LJBF'd - what
do I do?
A: Once in LJBF land with a particular woman, it's almost impossible
to get out. Rather, you should consider using the LJBF to your
advantage. Hang out with this woman and have her around when you're
out clubbing, bar-hopping, at a restaraunt, wherever. Completely
accept the fact that you'll never sleep with this woman anf simply
use her as "social proof" when attracting other women. Other women
will see you as more atrative and desireable if they see you with
another woman. The better looking your LJBF girl, the better for
you. In fact, you may even want to introduce the idea of "winging"
with this LJBF woman directly to her: she can help you attract other
women while you help her attract other men. If, however, you're
still adament about seducing an LJBF woman, read the next Q&A.
Q: I'm interested in a particular girl I know from [work, school, a
club, whatever], can you tell me how to get her to [like me, date
me, sleep with me, whatever]?
A: First, go sleep with 10 other women in the next month and then
decide afterwards whether you still want to pursue this particular
woman. If you already have the skill to bed that many women in a
month then you already know the answer to your question. Otherwise,
you need to work on your skills for doing just that - by reading the
posts on ASF, participating in discussions, absorbing and
experimenting with the knowledge you learn from others. Once you've
done that, the woman you're pining over now will likely disappear
from your mind, knowing that your choice of women has increased
vastly.
Q: What does "elicit values" mean? How does one elicit values?
Q: What is the "bitch shield"? How do I bypass it?
Q: What is supplication?
Q: What is NLP?
Q: What is an "alpha male"?
Q: What is seduction?
Q: Where and how do I start using all this new knowlege?
Q: How do I ask her if she has a STD (Sexually Transmitted Disease)?
Q: How can I date more than 1 woman at a time?
Q: I have a question about SS (Speed Seduction»). Where should I go?
A:http://www.seduction.com/
Q: What are some highly recommended books I should read?
A: A list of useful books previously mentioned on ASF can be found
at:
http://www.fastseduction.com/books.shtml
Any questions not covered by this FAQ can be researched by using the
ASF searchable archive at http://www.fastseduction.com/, or by
lurking on the ASF newsgroup for at least a couple of weeks. There
is also a free web forum, the PUSHboard (Pick up Artists Study Hall)
available at http://www.fastseduction.com/ which is a retro-
moderated board (no spam, no piles of useless posts).
Speed Seduction FAQ
-------------------
The Speed Seduction FAQ can be found at:
http://www.seduction.com/faq.html
Contact/Credit Information
--------------------------
[email protected]
nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org
man***h@pi***.com[ ? ]
You can contact any of the above e-mail addresses regarding any
element of this FAQ (please include the words "ASF FAQ question" in
the subject of your e-mail) or general information contained on this
page. For information about the Fast Seduction 101 web site, please
contact [email protected] but first please review our Terms &
Conditions of Use disclaimer for that site.
Copyright notice
----------------
Except for quoted elements explicitly noted as being credited to
another entity, this work is Copyright©1999 by the authors,
[email protected], nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org, and
man***h@pi***.com[ ? ]. All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of
material appearing in this document, in whole or in part, is
forbidden without prior permission from at least one of the authors.
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