mASF post by "Big Mack"
posted on: mASF forum: Reviews Discussion, October 10, 2004I took the RSD Bootcamp at Project Hollywood exactly a month ago (9/23-9/25).
I've posted once in a while, but I don't bother posting more b/c I don't
believe in KJing, I don't think my skill level is that high enough yet, and the
seduction community is already very saturated w/ information on PUing.
MY BACKGROUND (prior to bootcamp)
- rAFC [GPUA-2 (check FS levels of mastery)]. I've gotten laid in the past
through social circles/drunk college chicks - but I've never cold PU'd a
f-close w/ a girl.
- college student + fratboy at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor majoring
in Business Administration. In 10 years I see myself working on Wall Street as
an Investment Banker in Equity Sales.
- I'm smart, cool, well-built, and good-looking - girls almost always give me
an 8+. I'm also relatively popular on my college campus and I'm very socially
calibrated (I'm a natural at social game. I was one of those popular jocks in
high school).
- I have no emotional/psychological problems whatsoever. I came from a very
nurturing and positive family, and I have always had a strong personal
identity.
- lurked a lot on ASF for about a year and a half - but this handle (Big Mack)
was created just 5 months ago. That being said, I'm very knowledgeable about
all the current seduction theories, methods, and psychology.
I realize that the description of myself may come off as
arrogant/self-validating/smug and some of it may also seem highly irrelevant to
PUing, but I'm trying to be as blunt and clear as possible as this information
about myself is essential for understanding my whole critique of RSD and of how
their game relates to guys like me - as you'll see as you read on.
Let me also start by saying that I'd never take an In-field Workshop. There are
way too many other students with you and it's hard to get attention from the
instructors (I'm saying this from reading many of the past reviews on RSD
workshops). However, now it seems like they have a new personalized workshop
which caters to only two students/instructor. But if you're debating between
taking an In-field Workshop + Seminar ($900 altogether) and an Individualized
Bootcamp ($1500) as I was 3 months ago, I'd highly recommend taking the
Bootcamp instead if you're going to LA. The LA Bootcamp offers free housing, so
you get to live in PH w/ the RSD guys whereas if you were taking a Workshop +
Seminar you'd probably end up paying for a hotel for 3 nights as well - which
in sum, leads to a more expensive option than the bootcamp.
Just a few of the guys that I met during my stay at Project Hollywood, some
through sheer luck b/c they live in the LA area and others b/c they live in PH:
Tyler Durden, Geoff, Thomas Crown, Jlaix, Papa, Dreamweaver, Mystery, Style,
David DeAngelo, Craig, Marovingi, and The_One (TwentySix was travelling Europe
at the time).
Now on to what I did each day of the weekend.....
DAY 1 – My first time in LA
Upon first entering Project Hollywood I was greeted by Mystery and his dog. I
was still in shock that I was actually meeting these guys face-to-face, guys
that I've been reading about countlessly over the past year and a half. Then I
met practically everyone else in the house. What surprised me was how much
better looking I was than most of them (no offense guys). I'm not a fruitcake,
but I'd say that all the guys in PH are at most a 7.5 in looks, except for
Geoff and Papa who are genuinely good-looking guys. Also, all of the RSD guys,
except for Thomas Crown, stand around 5'7. Within the first hours of staying at
PH I heard my AFC conditioning telling me that there's no way these guys pull
that much quality ass. These guys aren't alpha, loud, and as extroverted as my
UMich frat brothers nor are they that good-looking or well-built either. To be
honest, in many ways I felt socially superior to them at the time - but in
reality that was my AFC conditioning which compared their external traits to
mine - that of looks/appearance, money, etc.
[Also, for the record, I have no idea how you guys think TD comes off as gay.
Perhaps the guys that think TD looks and acts gay are all from plain white-bred
suburbia and aren’t in touch with fashion or the latest trends at all. But I
really don’t know; it’s possible that he could’ve looked and acted gay before I
took the bootcamp. I was born and raised in New York City, and I get regularly
hit on by fags when I’m back home. TD didn’t look gay the slightest bit during
my stay. Yes, he is a metrosexual though and he looks like one too. I’m a
borderline metrosexual in that I care about my appearance – b/c I make sure to
come off as a cool good-looking guy wherever I go. But to mistake us for being
gay is very off and ignorant. He does have a high-pitched voice, but I could
attest to him not coming off gay because I was living with the guy three days
straight.]
There are 3 student/bootcamp. The other two students were also rAFCs, one was
31 yrs old and the other was in his early 40s. I'm a sophomore at college, and
I'm really fuckin young (I just turned 19 last week). Fortunately, I have a
solid fake ID so I was able to get into nearly all the venues in LA. I was only
caught once upon entering a bar, but the bouncer was cool about it and gave the
ID back to me.
On Day 1, the program started off with TD and Geoff giving a lecture on their
game structure, motivations for getting better - what our goals are, what we
should do to make the most out of our bootcamp experience, his history as a
PUA, etc. The core of RSD game centers around 5 points in an interaction:
1) Opener
2) Hook
3) Emotional Connection
4) Physical Connection
5) Close - be it a #, @, f-close
It's a very simple and effective structure for teaching.
Before going out that night, TD made sure that all of us had good clothes for
going out and that we were looking our best. He made one of the other students
shave his head, get a tan, and wear his contacts. It was a really good call on
TD’s part b/c that student looked 10x better afterwards. Overall, I noticed how
the RSD guys are heavily keyed into how they as well as their students look -
their clothes, built, facial appearance. I find this necessary b/c we toured
elite clubs in LA, and we can't go out looking like losers. They are very
concerned about coming off as cool, extroverted guys.
That night we went to a night club called White Lotus. It was me, another
bootcamp student, TD, and Geoff. The other bootcamp student was out with Papa
and Jlaix at another nightclub. Upon entering, TD and Geoff told us to approach
several sets throughout the night without using canned openers and
routines/gimmicks. They taught us effective wing game tactics. They pushed us
into mixed sets, big groups, lone wolfs.
Watching TD and Geoff working on several sets was really interesting and
surprising to me. These guys hardly move. The whole time they look straight
into a HB’s eyes while conversating with them, and they keep their hand
gestures at a minimal. Their body language doesn’t display neediness at all.
It’s relaxed, loose, and firmly on the ground. With a naked eye it seems as
though they’re just some regular guys talking – not gaming – to these girls,
when in fact they are gaming them hardcore – it exemplifies TD’s past post “how
to play hard to get actually, for real”. They don’t put their hands on their
lower back; they don’t swing their arms around them – nothing. Their verbal
game is so tight that HBs typically KINO them first, and at high points in the
interaction these guys subtly close the proximity between them and the HB. TD
is like a fucking machine gun. He adeptly overwhelms girls with his verbal
repertoire. They have no time to even think about rejecting him or having ASD
feelings come up. These guys would provide 90% of the conversation, and most of
the time the only things you could hear from girls in the interaction are
“yeah”, “no”, simple short sentences, and/or lots of laughter and giggles. They
don’t lead the conversation at all, and they’re so sucked into TD’s frame b/c
he’s so entertaining and funny. Eventually, as their proximity between each
other lessens and as the girls BT skyrockets and she’s KINOing him and laughing
at all of his jokes she finds herself sexually attracted to him like no other.
As for me and the other bootcamp student, we learned a lot by observing their
game, and by approaching so many sets that night in the night club. I felt
broke down several limiting beliefs that I used to have: that of being very
young and not being able to PU women in their mid-20s and of PUing 9s and 10s
in the LA nightclub scene. I approached one LA HB10, and I was surprised at how
they were attracted to me b/c I was so calm and composed while interacting w/
them. Me and the other bootcamp student both #closed a girl that night.
Afterwards, we went to Mel’s Diner – which is a diner that’s open till 4am and
it’s right behind PH. The night scene in LA is over at 2am – which blows – and
there are usually tons of sets in this one diner afterwards. While eating and
sitting at our tables, I was pushed into walking up to other tables of girls
and gaming them. I approached a 2-set sitting down, and I felt real awkward b/c
I never sarged in a restaurant/diner atmosphere before, but I ended up
number-closing the better of the two girls.
DAY 2 – I’m in love with LA.
We woke up late around 2pm. It turns out that this is the typical schedule of
the RSD guys. They get back home and depending on whether or not they extracted
a girl they usually fall asleep around 6-7am, and wake up around 2-3pm the
following day. Also, they go out clubbing 7 nights/week! It’s more than a
full-time job for them, and they’re very serious about it.
Anyhow, on Day 2 we headed out to Melrose to go shopping and daytime sarging.
At first I thought I wouldn’t need to buy anything cuz I already have a pimped
out wardrobe and I’m already cool as fuck – I don’t need any changing w/ my
appearance as other guys might. But upon entering some of the Melrose boutiques
I was instantly in love with the LA style of clothing. I bought a few nice
threads, a pair of European jeans, and a fur hat that makes me look ultra-pimp.
LA style is a mixture of European shit + hipster + urban sleekness. Overall,
it’s really cool and I’ve come to love it.
While shopping and having lunch, me and the other two bootcamp students along
with the RSD guys (Jlaix, Geoff, TD, and Thomas Crown) and Merovingian were out
daytime sarging. We were told to approach virtually any girls that passed us
with whatever we want. We usually used female opinion – who lies more, and
sometimes I opened direct with “You are so fuckin adorable”. The point is that
RSD doesn’t limit itself to indirectness, though it does encourage portraying
higher value through active disinterested body language (basically all the shit
that’s underlined in TD’s how to play hard to get for real post).
I got a few number closes that day, and I felt my game improving. The 5-point
structure was very helpful and on the dot. Applying it let me easily identify
where I was in terms of working the interaction towards a close.
At night we hit up another A-crowd nightclub. We went out with some pivots this
time (one of them was an 8, the other was a 7.5). Me and the other bootcamp
students again mass approached all the sets in the venue. At many points during
the night Geoff would have us observe a natural gaming» a girl, taking note of
his body language and the way he treats her. We’re also taught to screen the
whole club, to be able to see which guys are alpha/beta, and which ones get a
lot of ass, etc. Most of it was pretty obvious to me, but it was still
interesting to watch it in an elite LA nightclub. Afterwards, we went to Mel’s
Diner again and sarged it out. While we were all sitting down eating, TD was
touring the whole diner approaching mixed sets and large groups. He came out
with some numbers.
DAY 3 – I’ve never seen so many fake tits in one weekend.
Sunday. We wake up around 2ish again. Me and the other two students go out to
eat lunch, and afterwards go daytime sarging on our own. We opened a couple of
sets, and used wing tactics. Sunset Blvd was pretty dead, so we headed back to
PH. Luckily, Jlaix was scheduled to lecture on PUing to the LA Lair that same
day in PH. We stuck around for that, and afterwards we headed out to Melrose
again. More shopping and more daytime sarging. I number closed a couple of
times – I really don’t remember how many numbers I got b/c I’m writing this
review a month later. While we were in this one boutique shopping, Geoff was
talking to one of the girls that working there. Btw, this was the second time
we came by this store so she remembers us from the day before. But anyhow,
Geoff works his game while I’m waiting outside the store on the lookout for
some honeys and the next thing I know the other bootcamp students come out
telling me how Geoff took her arms, pushed her up against the wall, and started
making out with her in front of her boss. He #closed her, and then we left
Melrose.
That night we decided to go to this gothic/punk club – it’s the only hot venue
on a Sunday night. I was on an emotional high and I thought to myself fuck it,
I’m gonna rock out w/ my cock out on my last night of bootcamp. I decided to
peacock for the first time: I wore a fur hat, pimped out fur coat w/ no shirt
underneath, a belt w/ a snake buckle, and white shoes. I couldn’t believe I was
actually doing it. So we went inside the club, and upon entering I feel my
state go all the way down. This is my first time peacocking, I’m rAFC, so the
whole time that night I wasn’t thinking about game or having a good time – I
was thinking about my appearance b/c I’m so not used to peacocking. Every set I
approached was interesting cuz girls were rubbing their hands on my bare chest
and abs and my fur hat, but I was so negative and I was so out of state that my
whole night was just fucked up. I was getting AIs from several cute girls in
the club, but I was feeling too shitty to game them. Papa took me to another
club in hopes of trying to get my state up and get me gaming well again. But it
didn’t work. I was just negative throughout the whole night.
Lesson learned: you’ve gotta be congruent with the peacocking persona for it to
work, and it takes practice.
We came back to PH from the club. I feel like total shit b/c my last night
didn’t go as well as I expected it to be. Then Geoff tells me to come w/ him
and Jlaix to Mel’s Diner. I change into regular clothes, and I say fuck it, I’m
gonna get my state back on. We have dinner at Mel’s and I see Geoff and Jlaix
approach a 2-set, and actually sit w/ them at the table while they’re eating
for about 10 minutes. Later, I also approached a 2-set (HB7.5s) outside and it
turns out that they went to the same club and remember me being dressed like a
pimp. They were waiting outside, and in the back of my mind I wanted to take
them back to PH. I made them laugh real hard and I was busting their balls, and
all was going well until one of them snorted. I laughed out loud, and told her
to never do that again – it really was disgusting; I don’t care how good she
looked or how good thinks she thinks she looked. Snorting is a big no-no in my
book. This gets them both real pissed, and she starts bitching at me for
telling her what to do. Fuck them. I ejected, and went back to finishing my
burger w/ Geoff and Jlaix.
HIGHLIGHT OF THE BOOTCAMP
On one of the nights I was out with TD in a club, and we saw a banging brunette
(HB10) with a good-looking guy – it turns out that he used to be one of the
cast members of Party of Five – I just googled him; his name’s Matthew Fox. The
HB10s all over the guy, and she has one of her legs over his legs. Me and TD
are a couple of meters away, and suddenly TD says “watch this”. TD walks up to
them and opens them with Swinggcat’s 80s dog opener. He finds out who the AMOG
is, and starts telling him about how he’s so great and how his sister used to
idolize him. Then he goes on about how the three of them own the club and how
they’re the life of the party, or something along those lines. So during this
whole time TD is facing the AMOG and talking only to him, and is totally
ignoring the HB10. The HB10 (who happens to be a Hawaiian Tropics model) starts
trying to get into the conversation and stars nagging TD for no reason. TD
starts busting her balls and says stuff along the lines “is she always like
this?, etc.”. So TD’s been leading the whole conversation and eventually I
notice that the HB10 no longer has her legs on the AMOG anymore, and that TD is
standing close between her legs (both the HB10 and AMOG were seated on some
platform). The HB10 keeps KINOing TD, and her BL is directly facing him, and
the AMOG starts looking a little jealous. And right then Geoff steps in and
starts talking to the AMOG in such a way that the AMOG is facing him and can’t
see the interaction between HB10 and TD. While Geoff talking about random shit
with the Party of Five AMOG, TD gets closer to the HB10 and she tells him about
she’s gonna get a divorce soon and take all his money, and that TD should hang
out with her cuz she’ll spend his money on him, blah blah blah. Eventually he
#closes HB10 and she agrees to lie to the AMOG and tell him that he’s gay (the
RSD guys call this the Gay Disqualifier), and the AMOG can’t see it at all even
though he’s sitting right next to her cuz Geoff was talking to him the whole
time. The whole thing was done so perfectly, and it was excellent timing on
Geoff’s part on winging TD. After he got her number, Geoff was telling the AMOG
about how TD’s gay, and when they’re about to eject the set TD tells the AMOG
that they’re gonna go shopping and that he’s gonna dress her up as a strawberry
shortcake and the have bestest time in the whole wide world (in the most
flagrantly gay voice ever). The club closed, and when we were heading back to
our car the HB10 frantically ran after TD and hugged him. Her BT was that shot
up.
MY CRITIQUE ON RSD GAME
My view is similar to Chaco’s review on RSD as well
[http://fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=3&mn=1086772036156024]
Look back and read the description of myself. I am very defined. I have a
strong personality and identity. I have goals for myself and I actively pursue
them. In many ways, I realize that I’m very lucky and more fortunate than
others. I have no holes in other areas of my life. In short, I AM A COOL GUY.
And because of that, I’m very socially calibrated and I have a natural charisma
about me. I’m a natural in social game. One thing I’ve been doing recently is
comparing my rAFC PU game to my natural social game, and the parallels that I
see between them are striking to me.
In my natural social game (that is the skill-set you use to make new friends,
meet new people, make other people like you, etc.) I also use
routines/gimmicks, canned openers, canned jokes, and a plethora of c&f lines.
And I do this all on an unconscious level; only lately having been to the RSD
bootcamp have I been analyzing the structure of my social game. It’s
interesting to meet other guys who aren’t half as socially adept as me, who
struggle with just the mere act of socializing w/ other people. But I imagine
that that’s exactly how I’m probably perceived by Natural PUAs when I’m trying
to game girls. I’m naturally great at attracting girls, but I often fuck up
later on b/c I never flip their screening/chase switch (TD’s “how to play hard
to get for real” post) b/c I haven’t effectively calibrated myself to that yet.
But as for everything else, cool guy like me are calibrated and sensitive to
many different points in a social interaction that other guys may not be aware
of. I also have great tonality and great body language and a good sense of
style (clothes, appearance). For guys like me w/ good social skills, it’s
really all about calibrating ourselves to the screen/chase switch.
Anyhow, in comparison to other guys, guys that might not be as socially adept,
I have taken a lot of my skills for granted. I bet that several ASFers aren’t
that extroverted, that they don’t have a strong identity, and that they don’t
have a strong social game. To use RSD game (and I imagine MM as well) you’ve
gotta come off as fun, outgoing, and extroverted – in short, cool as fuck. Like
so many posters have said time and time again: it’s not what you say, but how
you say it. Now, that’s not to say that those of you that aren’t as socially
calibrated will never improve. All of this shit comes with practice. I’m a
natural at it because I’ve learned to socialize adeptly since middle school,
and I’ve always identified with being a cool guy since then. Over time, it’s
been so internalized. Because many of you guys don’t have this stuff
internalized, several of RSD/MM tactics may not be that effective for you.
RSD game requires you to be able to control and lead the set. You’ve gotta be
able to think on your feet, and you can’t be a routine-robot. In fact, during
my three days at bootcamp the instructors hardly taught us any routines. Now
they’ve realized that it’s more important to push into sets and start
interacting with them on the fly w/o canned material. Now despite my social
skill-set I’ve found myself incapable of spontaneously leading conversation all
the time w/ HBs, but that’s a given b/c I’m still not 100% comfortable in that
situation. My point is that there are several guys here who wouldn’t even be
able to lead interesting conversations with other GUYS, and come off as cool to
them. Rather, it’s a bigger problem than PUing HBs. Now if you don’t have the
social skill-set to lead conversations with other dudes, how the fuck are you
gonna effectively make women interested in you? Again, these are social skills
that’ll only be learned through repetition and practice, and eventually you’ll
internalize them.
Another argument that I’ve thought about and heard a lot about here on mASF is
that about RSD game being for excusers, and that when you fuck these girls
using these tactics it’s like contradicting your own identity.
That’s a very typical argument stemming from guys that don’t have a strong
identity, and that aren’t socially adept. You see guys, deception is a very
advanced social skill. Us cool guys all tell white lies left and right whoever
we interact with in order to get what we want, and we’re experts at it – and
the worst part of this is that we usually do it on an unconscious level. Look
around and think of all the “cool” guys you know, and you’ll notice this for
yourself.
Cool guys are socially fluid. Novice social gamers stick with their identity,
and are unable to flow with different interactions – and they think of
themselves to be honest. But they fail to realize that there is no “I”. All of
socialization is fake, and even the identity that you believe to be you is just
another conglomeration of roles fabricated by society and yourself. Masters of
socialization – cool guys – understand that on a deep level, and that’s why
they’re always able to have smooth interactions and have people from all social
groups like them. It’s because they act like shape shifters, and they so
effectively calibrate themselves to whoever they’re interacting with.
My roommate (who I’ve met through PAIR) lacks a strong identity, but he still
does relatively well PUing. Unlike me, he doesn’t use high-octane RSD/MM
methods at all, and doesn’t like them either. He argues that if you use them
it’s like the girls don’t really like you for who you are. We had a debate
about this for an hour, and we came to the conclusion that he’s saying that
because he doesn’t have a strong identity. He’s had family problems in the
past, he’s not that socially adept himself – he’s acts rather reserved, and
he’s currently working on fixing other parts of his life. In short – often
times he feels lost, and he doesn’t feel like he has a strong identity. And
that is why using advanced social skill-sets (RSD/MM game that require heavy
social calibration) don’t suit him at all.
I imagine that most ASFers here are similar to my roommate, and very few of you
guys are like me. What’s interesting though is that I’ve been influencing him
to get more and more socially calibrated and he’s getting more extroverted
day-by-day. As he gets more social I also see a shift in his PU game as well.
He’s becoming more high octane/partying-oriented, and I see him becoming more
like me in small steps.
As for guys like me, cool guys with a strong personal identity, we couldn’t
give a shit if we use routines/gimmicks or if we outright lie to HBs. I could
lie about everything to a HB, rail her all night long, and not feel regretful
at all the next morning because I have that strong of an identity and I’ve
ALWAYS known myself to be a cool guy – that is my identity, and regardless of
whether I’m lying or not, it’ll never change.
In short: I’M NOT A FUCKING EXCUSER. I’M A MANIPULATOR.
But guys who are still on the fringe of fixing their personal identity would
not be able to do what I do. They have yet to build external psychological
blocks that’ll help them formulate that identity. They’re still novices in
socializing. As they get better and better, and when they finally have a strong
identity they’ll unconsciously realize that there really is no identity – that
all of it is essentially fake – and they’ll start to be more socially fluid,
and find themselves acting more Machiavellian.
I realize that this is one long-ass post, but I hope that both my theory and
the specifics of my review will guide the ASFer that’s contemplating on taking
the RSD Bootcamp. So basically, if you’re 100% that you have good social
skills, you’re extroverted, and that you can make people like you on the fly
with your charisma, then you should definitely take the bootcamp. If not, you
may still want to take the bootcamp if you really want to learn to become more
socially calibrated and extroverted. However, before anything else I’d work on
fixing other areas of my life before vesting all of my energy into PUing –
unless you feel that PUing is the answer to everything else in your life.
It’s only been a month since I’ve taken the bootcamp, and I’ve been burdened
with school work since then so I haven’t had much time to test this shit out to
really write about my progress. I’ve gotten several numbers on campus – both
during the day and at night, and the structured game tactics that I’ve learned
have given me a great edge in kicking me up my learning curve.
You’ve gotta be an active student while taking a workshop/bootcamp. Because I’m
extroverted, I always took advantage of the instructors. Whenever I fucked up
or needed advice with anything I asked them questions. I had several long talks
with TD and Geoff each day I was there. I made sure that I talked with everyone
there – even the guys that weren’t part of RSD such as Mystery, Style, and
Merovingian. I made sure that I got more than my money’s worth.
Again, a bootcamp/workshop can only take you so far. In the end it all boils
down to what you do. Instead of blaming the bootcamp/workshop/seduction product
for not getting the results you hoped for, start putting the blame on yourself
and you’ll get far more results. The RSD Bootcamp is highly resourceful, and I
can attest to how good these guys are in applying their methods and teaching
it, but it’s all about taking advantage of it.
[It's all a numbers game, BUT NUMBERS DON'T MEAN SHIT]
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