mASF post by "Unprogram"
posted on: mASF forum: Reviews Discussion, June 6, 2005Real Social Dynamics vs Badboy workshop Review and comparision ( long)
Well I’m one of a few people that has been privileged enough to take a group
workshop in both of the ‘main’ seduction workshops, so I’m gonna write a
balanced comparison of each one. If you want to know which one would best suit
you, depending on where in the game you are, read on.
First, a bit about me. I’ve been interested in seduction and stuff for quite a
long time, but maybe for slightly different reasons than other people. I used
to be really, really shy and quiet( never kissed before 20 !), and I’ve used
approaching girls as the main tool to improve my social skills and self belief
in general, to the point where I am now pretty ‘normal’. Of course I love girls
and sex too, but my main focus has always been on improving myself.
Before the RSD workshop I could often go from meet in club to sex within three
dates, but it was always through approaching girls by themselves in clubs, and
they tended to not be the kind of girls that I would have liked to go out with.
So I signed up for the RSD workshop last September in Edinburgh to improve my
game, mainly because I was a bit of a one trick pony.
RSD Workshop: Edinburgh and Glasgow, September 2004
Instructors:
The instructors for the three days were Twentysix and Protocol. These guys were
both very cool, and great fun to hang around. Twentysix related to his students
with great ease and gives the impression that he really cares for you
succeeding, I found him to be so fucking funny and very likeable. For you
Badboy students, he comes across as fun and kind a guy as the mighty Cortez.
Protocol was also very cool, he was only 18 but had such a strong frame and
really amazing seduction skills. Every set he opened he would get a number
close and the attraction he generated sometimes completely altered my
perception of what is possible! Though I found he came across as not really
caring what happened to you, but what he could demonstrate was awesome,
probably the most geniuinely high energy person I’ve ever met.
Day1 was meeting up in Edinburgh for dinner, then we went straight out to the
Edinburgh bars and clubs guided by Richie and Loverboy. The great thing about
the RSD instructors was that they would demonstrate and do sets if you asked
them, and EVERY time they would get the girls very attracted and then they
number closed. The first couple of sets I was pushed into went really badly
because I had no experience of doing mixed sets, but at least I was being
pushed into them. By the end of the night things were starting to click and I
got a couple of numbers.
In RSD the structure is turn up, get pushed into sets, they tell you what you
did wrong, what to do better next time, then push you into the next set. This
was useful because with every set I found myself doing a little bit better. I
think I got 2 # closes on the first day, I was surprised at how solid they
were, with the girls actually calling me later on the week.
Before Day2 I went onto ASF and memorized a few canned patterns, the ones that
I had seen working earlier like best friends, 80s opener and a few more in
front of the mirror. I had realised by watching them ‘performed’ that it was
they way you moved your body as you say them that generated the attraction, so
by the time the 2nd night came we were all holding sets of girls and making
them laugh, I personally had really improved because it had ‘clicked’ in my
head about how to move my body, and how to bridge into other topics of
conversation. We took the instructors to Glasgow, to see how they would do in a
club here that is notoriously difficult to game in, because of all the
professional footballers that go there. Twentysix and Protocol really excelled
again, attracting sets left right and centre, with one of my fondest memories
of the workshop being Protocol deciding to AMOG some massive musclebound guy
because he tried to take his glasses off him, after 15 minutes he had the guy’s
girlfriend in a corner giving him her number.
Day3 followed pretty much the same way, I think we had all by this time got the
basics of how to hold a big set of girls and make them laugh, not just through
canned routines but also through our bodylanguage. Twentysix took me around
through the club and showed how to stop chicks using just your bodylanguage and
no words, which was similar to what Badboy teaches, but this only lasted for 15
minutes. Near the end of the workshop Twentysix made out and extracted this one
girl from the club, all within half an hour. I got a few more #closes this
night.
Critisisms: RSD was very directionless, I often would either get a number
close or eject after ‘entertaining’ girls and that would be it. It felt like I
was doing throwaway sets all night. With Badboy everyone is encouraged to go
for the venue change and go for the lay every time, which makes it more
realistic with what you would normally want to do. Also it only took up the
evenings and night, and had no real theory given out, you basically had to
figure it out for yourself. Luckily for us most of the students had read
everything on asf anyways, but there was one guy there that hadn’t read
anything on asf and I noticed they found it hard to give him any real solid
feedback or advice that worked.
Conclusion: RSD is all about having fun, with others and yourself. I learned
how to handle groups and pretty much stay in any set for 20 minutes + with the
use of some canned routines – these routines work pretty much 90% of the time
because they are often fascinating to girls – as long as you enjoy using them!
After the workshop I will admit I got laid a fair bit for the couple of months
following, I even almost had a threesome, which was a definite improvement from
where I was before. I improved every time I went out. But after a while I got
REALLY sick of using the same lines, I also noticed that I had to be on a high
to get the RSD stuff to work, and that using the same lines became boring. Like
Badboy says, girls are mirrors of your own emotions in set, and it’s hard to
attract people when you are so bored of the very things you are saying. The
instructors were amazing, I can’t say anything much bad about them but when
doing RSD myself 6 months later I felt like I was putting 20% of myself into
each set without really caring about the outcome. This sounds a bit negative
right now after re-reading it, but please don’t misunderstand me. It definitely
improved my game and understanding a helluva lot, especially in how to deal
with groups. I don’t regret taking it at all, it was a very worthwhile
experience, providing you already have *some* game, though I wouldn’t recommend
it to total newbies.
Badboy Workshop. Edinburgh June 2005
Instructors:
For this class the instructors were Badboy and Cortez, and they were also very
cool individuals. Cortez – I love this guy! Whenever he speaks it is always
something incredibly funny or something very insightful. He comes across as
having a very laid back attitude to life, and he seemed to have a calming
influence on the students around him. This is in contrast to Badboy, who
definitely does not have a calming influence, in fact it was not unusual to
meet students from the workshop hiding inside the bar area on nights out
(myself included) to take a breather from being kicked into another mixed set
by BB! I will admit I didn’t find BB very friendly (though this is because I
hate people telling me what to do, he’s a good guy), but I will say that he
gives the impression of really caring about his students progress, far more so
than the RSD instructors, and he would frequently take time to fix any
particular sticking point any students had. By the end of the worskshop I
really respected BB( even though he still couldn’t understand my accent!), he
had an incredibly strong frame. Both Cortez and BB were very precise in their
reading of body-language and situations, and would always take time to answer
students questions.
Day 1 : Everyone met up at 11 am, we introduced ourselves and where we were in
our game. I’m not sure what BB workshops are normally like, but there seemed to
be a lot of characters in this one and pretty soon everyone was getting on
really well and there was a strong sense of ‘togetherness’ in the group.
Special mention must go to the Greek guy that kept us all laughing for the
entire three days with his crazy accent and sense of humour. Day 1 is how to
create attraction through body language. The exercises seemed weird and
pointless at first but by the end of the night I realised that they really did
work and helped me and the other students to act a lot more spontaneous and how
to never run out of things to say. By the end of the first half of the day
everyone was glad to be able to take a break and prepare themselves for the
upcoming night. The structure of the BB workshop cannot be faulted – by doing
a half day of exercises, then the evening sarging sets, and then meeting up the
next day again everyone had the chance to talk about their sticking points,
what worked and what did not, and to get advise on how to improve on the next
night. I noticed big changes in a lot of people that were talking the workshop
with me. Anyways I didn’t do too well on the first night, I held lots of sets
for a while but didn’t get any solid closes, but that’s ok it was good to be
trying something different for a change.
Day2 : This day concentrated on rapport. This was the day filled with solid
gold advice and exercises on how to create a real connection with anybody. For
me personally, this was the most important and revealing day, it really changed
my primary focus while gaming onto rapport (before I was concentrating on
getting attraction).
Day2 nighttime was a lot of fun, I did a lot better this time using direct
approach with a few solid #closes. Directly approaching is definitely very
powerful when done correctly. One highlight of this night was this girl that
told me to fuck off and I did exactly what BB said to do “Really! I love people
telling me to fuck off it shows a lot of passion…blah blah blah” and just kept
on talking for like 20 minutes. Pretty soon I was holding her hand, and she was
ready to be kissed - this really made me realise that words just don’t matter
that much, which was a bit of an eye-opener to me. ( I wasn’t really attracted
to her anyways and she seemed to be on drugs, so I ejected in the end).
Day 3 and everyone seemed to be having a blast, this day seemed to fly past, it
was basically how to venue change or kiss someone. Pretty fun stuff, everyone
knew each other pretty well by this point. Night time was like day2, a lot of
the students were really holding sets for over an hour here. As for me, well I
got talking to 2 girls and mainly focused on rapport – it worked out, one of
them ran a company taking hen parties around Glasgow and Edinburgh, and offered
me a job, which is not too bad to be honest, on Saturday me and 2 other guys
have to take 100 girls for dinner and then clubbing (help) and get paid for it!
Should be fun and good practise for gaming. Day 3 is also notable for the Carp
Diem speech, which does get you thinking about putting the maximum effort into
your life.
I also signed up for day4, which was all practical stuff, and totally street
based. This was also great fun, stopping moving girls on the high street,
talking to girls sitting at bus stops etc. Even though I’ve done a number of
street approaches before, I still find it a little nerve wracking, but after
this day I now find it exciting. At the start of the workshop we all got thrown
out of Starbucks for “talking to the lady customers” by some lam(e)og, which
was quite amusing. My last approach of the workshop meant I never got to thank
Badboy and Cortez for their time and help, since I went up to this cute girl
sitting at the shopping mall and left with her 10 minutes later. I fucked this
up while leaving actually by taking her hand – she went ‘ don’t touch me’ ,
which telegraphed my intentions too much and it then took me the longest amount
of gaming I’ve ever done - 2 days of hanging out all day before she properly
opened up, though I’m glad I made the effort- she turned out to be one of the
most interesting and unusual people I had ever met. Girls like this are exactly
the reason I wanted to get into street pu more – to meet people different from
the normal party girls I always seem to meet at clubs. We also met another BB
student while out with this girl on Monday – orange, who had missed his plane
back to New York! Thanks to orange for not coming to dinner, she really opened
up emotionally the rest of the night and we really connected - I went back ‘to
watch a movie’ for the close. The interesting thing from my point of view was
that the intial attraction generated by Badboy’s direct approach sustained the
sarge for the next 2 days, even though I messed up the start of it a little.
The long time it took me to close her allowed me to practise all the different
techniques that were taught during the workshop, and I found that talking
r-e-a-l-l-y s-l-o-w-l-y and sensually had an amazing effect on this girl, I
took a lot of good stuff from this workshop.
Conclusion:
Well, I got what I wanted out of it, a job and my first ever cold street to
f-close, something I have dreamed about for ages. I had so much fun with the
other students, and everyone else seemed to get some action somewhere (on the
last night 2 of the students had some of the cutest Mexican girls I have ever
seen all over them!), it was more of an experience than the RSD workshop , and
a more complete view of PU in general, with attraction, rapport and closing all
covered. I think the RSD format has changed since I took the workshop 9 months
ago, so some of my criticisms of it may not be valid anymore.
Out of the two, I would definitely recommend the BB workshop more, because it
was more of an experience, it was more fun, and it is more of a ‘real’ way to
learn how to game. If you want to learn how to handle large groups of girls at
the same time take a RSD workshop. Both methods compliment each other, I’m sure
BB has some stories that he has told to more than one girl while sarging ,
similar to ‘routines’, and if you have ever seen the RSD instructors in set
then you will notice that they have amazing bodylanguage , just like Badboy
too. But the structure of the BB workshop is far more effective, far more fun,
and seems to be far more organised than the RSD one.
Post BB workshop I have been doing at least one street approach a day, if the
girl’s hot I do it properly, with’ I like you…blah blah blah opener’ , or if
they are not so hot I approach with ‘ my other car’s a Porsche!” or something
ridiculous, anything to remind my brain that cold approaching is about having
fun and not taking anything seriously. Meeting a hot Spanish girl on Sunday
that I met through a cold approach in a bar, so it’s working out for me. I
could have waited 6 months before posting this but to be honest my posting days
are over, so I wanted to get this out as soon as possible and concentrate on
other things in my life that I have neglected over the years. So long and
thanks for all the fish.
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