mASF post by "GeneMachine"
posted on: mASF forum: Field Reports Discussion, March 3, 2004Review of Real Social Dynamics Seminar and Workshop, San Francisco Feb 20-22
2004
Why I took this seminar & workshop:
I believe I have strong game - I've been on ASF since the start of 2003, I used
to sarge a fair bit even before I discovered ASF, I have posted plenty of LRs
here on ASF, and that's just the ones I've reported. However, there's always
room for improvement..! First, I wanted to see how I shaped up against TD, Papa
and the other instructors on the course and second, I wanted to highlight any
holes/weakspots in my game and strengthen them up.
Conclusions on the seminar & workshop - short version:
The seminar and workshop are absolutely incredible. I came in with high
expectations, but still left blown away. The seminar covers in the classroom
every aspect of PU required to have seriously tight game. The workshop
demonstrates those aspects in the field and expands your view of what is
possible, while providing the route map of how to get there.
Conclusions on the seminar & workshop - longer version:
I was expecting to find that my game was about on a level with the assisting
instructors and that TDs would be better than mine, but not by that much. I
found out that I was wrong :-)
FRIDAY NIGHT - WORKSHOP
On the first night, Friday, I had the opportunity to wing with Playboy and
Xaneus and realized that there were some simple things that I could do that
would make DRAMATIC difference to my game.
(Quick sidenote on my game pre-workshop: I had no problem opening any set in a
reasonably quiet environment and could usually extract my target or at least
meet or #close. However, I had found that sometimes (particularly with the
hotter sets) that after I stacked a couple of openers and a routine, I didn't
really know where to go - I could sense that they weren't totally warmed up
yet, so going to rapport was premature, yet I didn't have anything else to say
to them - lack of material basically. Problem exacerbated in louder
environments where a set is tempted to not say much until they are sure they
like you so much they will shout to communicate with you/allow themselves to be
venue changed. Also, whilst my body language was good, it wasn't great - it
wasn't CONFLICTING with the message I was trying to convey, but it sometimes
wasn't ASSISTING as much as it could have been..)
So on the first night I learned:
(I) using body language more strongly to convey some initial disinterest.
(thanks Xaneus :-)
(II) having more good material canned rather than relying on improvisation.
(Went into a set with Playboy and he rolled out routine after routine - totally
natural vibe - no way the chicks could tell this stuff wasn't spontaneous - and
they're just digging him more and more with every routine. It's the kind of
stuff that I could come out with sponateously when I'm REALLY ON, but that
would only be maybe one night in four, and quite tiring so that I could only
sustain it for 3 or 4 sets. I knew that these guys were using SOME canned
material, but seeing how incredibly effective it is in the field, and how they
will use it for 20 minutes of sarging a set, not just the first 3 or 4 minutes
like I have been, is truly eye-opening. Like I said, a simple thing but with a
DRAMATIC impact on my game..)
SATURDAY DAY - SEMINAR
The first day of seminar was entirely instructed by TD. He is a great
instructor - his presentation is lively, clear and to the point. He
successfully and tirelessly conveyed a HUGE volume of material and was
concerned at all times to make sure that all the students were grasping the
concepts. Particularly useful for me was the segment on body language -
demonstrating approaching, take-aways, rewarding, punishing - but it's weird
how even the stuff that I am doing already, or that I had read about on TD's
posts - somehow watching him do it and hearing him say it conveys the message a
hundred times more powerfully than reading it in a post - I'll give an example
of this from the Saturday night workshop.
SATURDAY NIGHT - WORKSHOP
One of the key points from the seminar was 'engage the group'. Very basic
mystery method - I've been doing it ever since I was exposed to mystery method
about 18 months ago - of course you talk to the UG to stop her getting pissed,
of course you don't talk to the target first. However, I really saw the true
meaning when winging with instructor 'E' [damn - don't know his ASF screen
name..]. We were sitting in Mel's Drive-in getting a bite to eat. There's a
table of 12 sitting near us, with about 4 guys and the rest girls. 'Nice
12-set' E comments to me. 'Yeah' I say, 'Do you wanna show me the jealous
girlfriend opener - I've not really seen it in action'. E says 'Sure'. Now all
I really was expecting was that he'd open perhaps 2 of the girls nearest us,
and chat with them quietly and work his way into the set (this is what I would
have done). Instead, in a way reminiscent of that scene in pulp fiction where
Amanda Plummer holds up the diner with 'Any of you motherfuckers move and I'll
execute every last mother fucking one of you!', E saunters over and opens the
entire table..!!!! 'Hey guys!! Get this..I need some opinions on something...My
buddy just got himself a new girlfriend etc etc.' It TOTALLY opens - the whole
table are engaged in our conversation and we stay in set for about 15 minutes
until WE have had enough and want to go eat our burgers that have just
arrived.. [Put that into effect a couple of nights ago out sarging with one of
the guys I met on the workshop - opened a table of 3 guys and 2 girls NO
PROBLEM AT ALL - before the workshop I would have figured that was too many
people to take on - but if E can open 12 people, 5 is child's play.. :-)
SUNDAY DAY - SEMINAR
More excellent material from TD. I'm not going to give you a laundry list -
this is all stuff that he has posted on ASF already. The value comes from:
- seeing physical things demonstrated
- hearing the tonality and pace of the delivery
- seeing the facial expressions used
- and somehow just from having the stuff explained by a live person rather than
reading about it makes a huge difference. I didn't think it would - I'm the
kind of person that NEVER takes courses, cos I figure I can always just buy a
book on something and teach myself (unless there's a physical component like in
golf or tennis or something..my main motivation for taking the workshop was to
meet TD et al and compare myself to them) But think about the difference
between hearing someone telling you about seeing an ultra-hot girl and actually
seeing one yourself - that's the difference between reading a post and seeing
it demonstrated - the impact is 10 times stronger and it is processed and
BELIEVED at a much deeper level.
SUNDAY NIGHT - WORKSHOP
Spent some quality time winging with TD. HOLY FUCK. Nothing in my reality to
date had prepared me for this. From reading his posts, I could tell he was
getting great reactions from women, but on some level I was figuring 'Yeah, but
how MUCH better than the reactions I've been getting could they possibly be?
All chicks take a fair amount of time to warm up - either he's exaggerating a
bit or the chicks aren't that hot and are therefore just more desperate than
the chicks I go after'. But seriously, he just walks up to chicks and within
SECONDS they are pawing at him and looking at him with fuck-me eyes and up for
being isolated and giving massive kino. I would have been breaking down in
tears with exasperation and envy had it not been for the fact that over the
last 2 days he had given us a FANTASTIC road map for how to get our game to
that point and that I KNEW EXACTLY HOW HE WAS DOING IT. I knew it was just a
case of putting the learnings from the seminar and workshop into effect to get
my game that good.
POST WORKSHOP
Since then I have been applying the learnings from the workshop in the field to
great effect:
1) Ploughing girls with more material, allowing opening in tougher environments
like loud clubs
2) Using false time contraints and body language to demonstrate non-neediness
3) Re-opening sets that I'd already sarged (I never realized before the
workshop the extent to which the best guys are doing this - I always figured
that if I opened a set and than ejected cos of lack of material, or their
friend arrived or whatever, then that was it - set over. But now I see I can go
back 3,4,5,6 times and still get a result!)
Here's a great example of how my game has changed since the workshop. Thursday
night was out with a guy from the workshop, let's call him D. Go into a local
bar and see a VERY cute chick and her friend who go and sit down with their
drinks at a table. First, I'm more confident since the workshop cos I know I'm
going to open well even though they're seated. So I go over, and say 'Guys -
I've only got 30 secs but I need a female opinion on something' then I SIT DOWN
STRAIGHT AWAY. (false time constraint and sitting down immediately both thanks
to the workshop - I'd read this shit 100 times but never did it :-) . Run
jealous girlfriend. Set opens beautifully. D comes over and gives ME attention
with his body language, NOT the girls (he'd blown me out of 2 sets earlier in
the evening by giving the girls his BL attention on entering the set - we
figured out the problem and corrected for it). He and I chat for a bit whilst
we're ignoring the girls. Something comes up in OUR conversation and I reopen
the girls about it..(mostly I've sarged solo, but now since the workshop I have
seen how valuable it is to have a good wing, where you can talk to each other
to demonstrate disinterest, rather than just looking round or something, which
you have to do if sarging solo.) We venue change, I number close - no doubt I
could have taken it further - D will vouch for the fact that the girl was into
me - she was qualifying herself to me and giving IOIs - this night was just
about winging practice with D so we ejected, but already I can see my game MUCH
stronger...
In summary, would I recommend the seminar and workshop for those who already
have decent game? Yes - definitely - just like a pro-golfer will still have a
coach, there is always room for improvement, and even one key piece of learning
can make a huge difference to your game. Would I recommend it to those who
don't yet have decent game? Yes - even more so! The seminar/workshop will give
you all you need to know to develop decent game - except field experience which
is your responsibility :-) This stuff is insanely effective and valuable..
GeneMachine
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