mASF post by "razorjack"
posted on: mASF forum: Field Reports Discussion, May 5, 2005> On 5/19/05 8:37:37 AM, razorjack wrote:
> >> From: rp_5150
> >>
> >> On 5/16/05 8:30:29 AM, razorjack wrote:
> >
> >> Your example is cool. It's a step up on the
> >> hyperbole scale
> >> for sure, compared to what I'm doing. Yes,
> mixing
> >> playful
> >> teasing (& DLV) & connection at the same time, is
> >> the best,
> >> plus instant kino of course too.
> >
> >Yes, but there's also alot more going
> >on. My BL is
> >very relaxed, I'm not klingy all over
> >her. Making her
> >comfortable around me. I'm not trying to
> >impress her
> >or trying to use her for anything, which
> >makes her
> >comfortable around me. There are other
> >chicks watching
> >us having a great time. My chick sees
> >this and loves
> >the attention, so she values my company,
> >cuz she knows
> >that other chicks would want it if she
> >didn't, etc
> >
> >There is a whole bunch of stuff going on
> >at the same
> >time, that's why I say that PU is not a
> >linear set of
> >steps, but a dynamic process!
>
>
>
> Ok, let me ask this:
>
> How much are you talking, compared to her?
Quite a bit actually! Especially in the beginning cuz
they don't know HOW to interact with you in a way
that's going to impress you. But I hook them into it
immediately and you can just see the enthusiasm in
their eyes! :)
> I've done as you describe above, and sometimes the
> chicks
> leave/wander off (and I dont re-open but that's a
> different
> mistake). Sometimes they stay and hang for a while,
> sometimes
> they open back (sometimes with rapport questions of
> the boring
> "interview" form, what do you do, where are you from
> etc).
>
> When the set lasts past 10 minutes, one of the
> following seems
> true:
>
> (A) She is an older chick (like ~30) who has
> something to say.
> (B) I'm doing a lot of the talking. Like 70%.
> (C) We go into her set, and she is comfortable just
> "hanging"
> in her social group (the social group mostly ignores
> the two
> of us, or we join in their convo briefly, in between
> our own)
Well like I said, YOU have to do most of the talking
in the beginning, maybe even the first few times you
meet her.
Case in point:
There was a chick who picked me up at a club about 2
weeks ago and since then she's become an FB. Anyways
from the first time I met her, I had trouble getting
her to "open" up. I was usually the one bringing in
most of the energy into the interaction. We've gotten
together (to fuck) several times since we first met
and it was always like this. That is UNTIL last night!
Finally she "opened" up completely about who she is
and started letting her personality shine through.
This made me think quite a bit. Even though we got
together for sex a few times, she still was very
closed off. But finally after a few meets she was able
to open up and our interaction reached a new level.
The point is that not all chicks are the same. Some
can open up right away while others need a longer time
to feel comfortable around you. You have to decide
whether you're going to put in the energy and time for
her to get comfortable enough to let her personality
come out.
>
> The reason I ask is because a smooth "yammer yammer
> yammer"
> sets some kind of comfort level. Sure it's a mix
> of
> connection stories, deep rapport questions, rare
> teases,
> etc - but when I stall out conversationally, that's
> when the
> set will end ASAP.
It's all in your head. You THINK that it's all over
and that manifests itself to your actions which ends
the interaction.
The problem as I see it is you don't know what you
want to find out about her, so there is no focus in
your interaction with her. That is why you stall out
conversationally.
Another thing is that if you could "see" society for
it really is and how chicks react within said society
then you will see that there is no such thing as a
rejection or bitch shield.
> >I couldn't talk to chicks like this a
> >couple of years
> >ago. It was until I started to focus on
> >being
> >completely relaxed no matter what was
> >happeneng in the
> >PU that I learned how to REALLY
> >communicate with
> >chicks.
>
>
> Also known as, "the smooth yammer yammer yammer" !
>
> :-)
Maybe.... :)
> >Here's another example where I give her
> >a chance to
> >DEMONSTRATE that she is romantic:
> >
> >RJ: You know the thing I remember the
> >most about my
> >last gf was some of the things she use
> >to do. On time
> >I was away for a week on a business trip
> >in Singapore
> >and we never got a chance to talk during
> >that week cuz
> >of the time difference. Anyways when I
> >finally came
> >home, she had this candle lit dinner
> >waiting for us.
> >Then she poured us a bubble bath with
> >candle lights,
> >inscents and stuff. I thought that was
> >really
> >wonderful. Have you ever done anything
> >like that for
> >an ex-bf?
> >
> >HB: blabla....
> >
> >Now what I did here was just demonstrate
> >that I like
> >romantic chicks, then I demonstrated
> >what romantic is
> >to me, I painted a picture in her head
> >and then her
> >imagination gets going about doing
> >romantic things.
> >Now I would let her answer back with a
> >similar story.
> >She understands that I'm trying to find
> >out who she
> >is. Then she believes I understand her
> >and like her
> >for who she is! :)
> >
> >Now that is how you let a chick
> >DEMONSTRATE that she
> >has certain qualities.
>
>
> Well, it's more than that, too. It is a natural
> form of SS
> which I always thought of as "smooth / sexy talk".
OK, the major difference between SS and what I do is
that SS has a set of patterns, while I make this stuff
up spontaneously. Also the patterns are designed to
trigger certain reactions in her, I don't give a shit
about triggering anything in her. I get an image in my
head and I describe it in words that make ME feel
something. My focus is more on me feeling something
than making her feel something.
The SS patterns with their flowery language seems very
creepy and unnatural to me. I use language that is
congruent with what is natural for me..
> It also
> is similar to "elicit her values" which ross
> jeffries talks
> about.
Not really. Eliciting values is about finding out what
SHE wants, what SHE is looking for, what HER values
are, etc and then you use that information to PU her.
I am trying to find out if she has the qualities *I*
am looking for and I am also trying to find out as
many positive things about her as I can. Basically
getting to know her for who she is, trying to feel a
connection with her.
> Since chicks are naturally empathetic, they feel the
> words as
> you say them, depending on the level of the
> connection at the
> time.. right? And this makes them feel good,
> which makes
> them realize you're making them feel good, which
> makes them
> realize you might make them feel even better....
Yes, exactly! And they also realize that you are
special and different from all the other guys in that
sense.
> True. This is why I was saying, being goal oriented
> messes up
> the dynamic, because it creates this pressure. On
> the flip
> side, without being goal oriented, I'll "get to
> know" a chick
> for 30 minutes without escalating.
Yepp, you have to find a balance between those two
extremes.
> (Powerpuff tease is great, though I never use it.)
Never used it, so I can't comment.
> I'm not sure?
>
> Many times I approach without sex in mind (I just
> assume it
> will happen?), or with the idea of "She seems cool,
> maybe
> she's friendly, lets get to know her!" or in a bar,
> "She seems
> cool, let's see if she'll ask my name! Ok.. now
> lets see if
> she will buy me a drink! ..."
OK, but you're goal is to accomplish something with a
chick: sex, buy you a drink, ask you your name, etc.
Your goal has NOTHING to do with SELF-FULFILLMENT.
THAT is what I'm trying to get at.
> It's not me who has sex-on-the-brain. It's usually
> the chicks!
> Likely because, I don't associate approaches with
> sex, because
> I haven't had sex from approaches! (Wierd
> connundrum ;-)
>
> Nothing brought this home to me more than a great
> girl (solid
> 9) I met several months ago, after talking & dancing
> sexy with
> her for an hour, I asked some more rapport
> questions, and then
> asked her:
>
> robert: tell me.. what am I picturing right now?
> chick: (ddb) .... me.. with my clothes off.. on a
> bed.
*BITCHSLAP*
She's is basically telling you, in not so many words,
"Let's get out of here and fuck!"
She is projecting what SHE is thinking out loud!
> robert: [ Um No, actually I was thinking, you're
> cool, I'd
> like to spend more time getting to know you!
And here is where she is let down and now wants to
find another guy to go home with.
> Of
> course,
> along with: Holy crap, this hot girl is into me, can
> I handle
> this? ]
This is EXACTLY what I mean. You are NOT feeling your
way through the PU.
You are focused on some sort of script or order in
which things are supposed to happen. This chick didn't
need more rapport, she was horny and wanted to fuck,
but you were so focused on "I have to get to know her
first, I have to get to know her first! That's the
next step!"
If you would've been relaxed and FEELING your way
through the PU, you would've done what came naturally
rather than THINKING you have to go through a certain
amount of steps before closing the deal.
OK, let me see if I can explain this a little better.
You know that chicks go more by what they FEEL than
they think, right?
Well you have to put yourself on the same playing
field as the chick. If she is FEELING and you are
THINKING, then how in the world can you vibe with her
if you're not even in the same ball park?
Chicks don't follow scripts from meet to sex, they
FEEL their way through. IF you want to PU them you
have to do the same.
> Really, I wouldn't mind "slow seduction" in some
> cases. Its
> the chicks who often dont handle it well, and get
> wierd
> because I'm not physically escalating or SOI'ing.
> My
> solution here is to get comfortable with fast
> seduction, so I
> can keep up with their internal attraction clock.
> :-)
All chicks are different and therefore on different
clocks! :)
That's why you have to relax and be able to feel where
they are at all times during the PU.
> Hell, I remember a cold approach to a 60 y/o
> grandmother and
> she remarked to her group ten minutes into set that
> "Oh! He's
> too young for me, isnt he!" :-)
Dude, I've been saying this shit for the longest time.
When chicks see a good looking guy they are
immediately thinking about sex! Some chicks happen to
think out loud! :)
What I'm telling you is that you need to relax and not
worry about if they are attracted to you or not. More
than likely they are.
> This is actually a confusing description IMHO. Your
> shoulders are 90 degrees to her shoulders, and you
> are toward her.
>
> "pointing 90 degrees away" to me sounds like your
> back is
> facing her and you're talking to her either sideways
> or like
> someone from the exorcist (head screwed on
> backwards).
Yeah like I said, it's not easy when it's just a bunch
of words on an internet forum. We all have different
interpretations of those words depending on how those
words are anchored to our past experiences.
> This is how I have opened girls when they are
> standing at the
> bar ordering. As far as I can remember, never had
> a bad
> reaction..
That's cuz you are interacting with her in the same
way as someone who she ALREADY as rapport with!
> Usually, get a convo going for a 1-2
> minutes,
> then she goes back to her group. Absolutely right,
> need to
> qualify & connect right away.
Yes, don't bullshit around! Hook her immediately!
> I dont wear rings, jewlery, chains, earrings,
> watches, etc
> that some guys here like to wear (I think you also
> wear some
> rings?).
Yes, I do.
> Yes, I agree. Though I dont go for latina girls
> usually,
> when I have approached latinas I get a serious "you
> better be
> a man to me" vibe, same thing: they want a super
> aggressive
> guy. So this Brazilian chick, likely wanted me to
> continue.
> Hell. ALL CHICKS likely want me to continue (and
> not stall).
Yes, definitely possible.
> >2. She was at least a 9 and
> >used to guys hitting on
> >her. Now if you don't have the
> >looks, style, and
> >attitude to back up that bold
> >approach then it won't
> >work.
>
>
> Ditto that, on the 'attitude to back it up'.
Yes, very important.
> >3. I saw your pictures, do you
> >normally go out and PU
> >dressed like that?
>
> (see above)
>
> >I'm guessing maybe she thought
> >you were too "normal"
> >for her? In other words you
> >saw her as a 9-10 and she
> >saw you as a 7.
>
> Sure I don't want to unnecessarily handicap myself,
> however, a
> strong approach should blow away any visual
> impression she
> has. It is interesting that some really good
> approaches have
> been when I've been in grungy clothes (versus
> 'dressed to
> impress').
Different chicks will react differently. Some
positive, some negative.
> I think it was just my attitude, because I can
> approach
> strong, but the followup is lacking. Many months
> ago I would
> just sit at the bar super laid back, and take the
> hands of
> cute girls who walked by, and pull them into me.
> Always had
> them light up. Though, I usually stalled a little
> after that.
The opening techniques really doesn't matter as long
as it is HOW you WANT to do things and it does what
you WANT it to do.
> Now I'm better, except I tend to stop as soon as I
> get a
> objection (even ones I recognize as fake ones or
> even some
> that are thinly disguised IOI's, like, "I have to
> leave soon!").
Inner issues! Been there myself.
> Damn! "Missed it by that much!"
>
> I'm not sure, now. I might have had my crotch
> square at her
> hip than farther away (staying away from the 6 after
> all :-).
Remember that as a guy, you're 3 times stronger than
her physically and this can be very intimidating to a
chick.
Imagine a dude with 3 times your strength with his
crotch on your hip and you'll get an idea of how she
feels.
>
> Other thing was, I walked in normal speed. Now,
> relaxed BL
> guidelines, say: walk super slow, use slow
> movements.
You think too much, bro! Focus on BEING relaxed rather
than faking it by your walk and movements!
> Though, I've tried this and it comes off a bit
> wierd. Likely
> because I'm exaggerating it too much. Kind of like
> when I
> tried the low-eyelid thing and a chick opened me,
> "you look
> sleepy!" :-)
>
>
> What speed do you approach?
Like I said, you think too much.
I don't even think about this stuff. I just relax and
go with whatever I feel then everything is natural and
congruent.
If you're nervous and jittery, but trying to use slow
movements, walking speed, etc.. you're just gonna come
off as unnatural, incongruent and just plain weird! :)
> Now I know understand much more about your style,
> which really
> comes from your intent: to approach her as a
> potential lover
> from the start, and find out if SHE can connect with
> you.
Well you got most of it right. Yes I do approach her
as a potential lover, I'm not there to attract her or
impress her. Not so much to find out if she can
connect with me, but to find out things about her that
I can connect with.
-Razorjack
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