mASF post by "rp_5150"
posted on: mASF forum: Field Reports Discussion, May 5, 2005
Ok, one more response to add to this chock-full-of-info
thread.
On 5/19/05 8:37:37 AM, razorjack wrote:
>> From: rp_5150
>>
>> On 5/16/05 8:30:29 AM, razorjack wrote:
>
>> Your example is cool. It's a step up on the
>> hyperbole scale
>> for sure, compared to what I'm doing. Yes, mixing
>> playful
>> teasing (& DLV) & connection at the same time, is
>> the best,
>> plus instant kino of course too.
>
>Yes, but there's also alot more going
>on. My BL is
>very relaxed, I'm not klingy all over
>her. Making her
>comfortable around me. I'm not trying to
>impress her
>or trying to use her for anything, which
>makes her
>comfortable around me. There are other
>chicks watching
>us having a great time. My chick sees
>this and loves
>the attention, so she values my company,
>cuz she knows
>that other chicks would want it if she
>didn't, etc
>
>There is a whole bunch of stuff going on
>at the same
>time, that's why I say that PU is not a
>linear set of
>steps, but a dynamic process!
Ok, let me ask this:
How much are you talking, compared to her?
I've done as you describe above, and sometimes the chicks
leave/wander off (and I dont re-open but that's a different
mistake). Sometimes they stay and hang for a while, sometimes
they open back (sometimes with rapport questions of the boring
"interview" form, what do you do, where are you from etc).
When the set lasts past 10 minutes, one of the following seems
true:
(A) She is an older chick (like ~30) who has something to say.
(B) I'm doing a lot of the talking. Like 70%.
(C) We go into her set, and she is comfortable just "hanging"
in her social group (the social group mostly ignores the two
of us, or we join in their convo briefly, in between our own)
The reason I ask is because a smooth "yammer yammer yammer"
sets some kind of comfort level. Sure it's a mix of
connection stories, deep rapport questions, rare teases,
etc - but when I stall out conversationally, that's when the
set will end ASAP.
>I couldn't talk to chicks like this a
>couple of years
>ago. It was until I started to focus on
>being
>completely relaxed no matter what was
>happeneng in the
>PU that I learned how to REALLY
>communicate with
>chicks.
Also known as, "the smooth yammer yammer yammer" !
:-)
>Here's another example where I give her
>a chance to
>DEMONSTRATE that she is romantic:
>
>RJ: You know the thing I remember the
>most about my
>last gf was some of the things she use
>to do. On time
>I was away for a week on a business trip
>in Singapore
>and we never got a chance to talk during
>that week cuz
>of the time difference. Anyways when I
>finally came
>home, she had this candle lit dinner
>waiting for us.
>Then she poured us a bubble bath with
>candle lights,
>inscents and stuff. I thought that was
>really
>wonderful. Have you ever done anything
>like that for
>an ex-bf?
>
>HB: blabla....
>
>Now what I did here was just demonstrate
>that I like
>romantic chicks, then I demonstrated
>what romantic is
>to me, I painted a picture in her head
>and then her
>imagination gets going about doing
>romantic things.
>Now I would let her answer back with a
>similar story.
>She understands that I'm trying to find
>out who she
>is. Then she believes I understand her
>and like her
>for who she is! :)
>
>Now that is how you let a chick
>DEMONSTRATE that she
>has certain qualities.
Well, it's more than that, too. It is a natural form of SS
which I always thought of as "smooth / sexy talk". It also
is similar to "elicit her values" which ross jeffries talks
about.
Since chicks are naturally empathetic, they feel the words as
you say them, depending on the level of the connection at the
time.. right? And this makes them feel good, which makes
them realize you're making them feel good, which makes them
realize you might make them feel even better....
>Let me show you how I believe you are
>thinking. This
>is an example convo, the parts in () are
>what you're
>doing and the parts in [] is what you're
>thinking:
>
>[Hmm...she looks nice]
>RP(slides arm around her waist): Hi, you
>look so nice,
>I had to come meet you!
>HB(light ups): Oh thank you. Where are
>you from?
>
>[Whoa! That was fast! She's into me! OK,
>Robert don't
>blow it now! What should I do now? C&F?
>No maybe I
>should qualify her? Damn! What's the
>next step now?]
>
>RP: Ummm....California.
>
>[DAMN! That was lame, I should've gone
>with C&F!]
>
>HB(Somewhat taken back): Oh OK.
>
>[She's losing attraction! DAMN! OK I
>gotta get it
>back! C&F TIME!]
>
>RP: You know you remind me of one of
>those Power Puff
>Girls!
>HB: ????
>
>[Man this is one weird chick! DAMN!
>Robert you're
>losing her! OK let's try qualifying her]
>
>And so on and so on....
>
>OK I exaggerated a bit to get my point
>across but
>hopefully you understand what I'm trying
>to say.
True. This is why I was saying, being goal oriented messes up
the dynamic, because it creates this pressure. On the flip
side, without being goal oriented, I'll "get to know" a chick
for 30 minutes without escalating.
(Powerpuff tease is great, though I never use it.)
I will post some audio as soon as I do another direct. I'll
work on making some vids, I'll ask random bar guys to record
me. It will be cool, I can have comparison vids like "before
running with RJ" and "after running with RJ".
>> Here is the dilemma, if this isn't done with intent:
>>
>> "focus on what you want" -> goal oriented thinking
>> -> pressure & stress related to meeting goals ->
>> more nervousness
>> -> inability to act naturally
>
>But you see if your goal is dependent on
>the outcome
>like sex then of course you're thinking,
>"How do I
>keep this going? Damn! That was lame!
>She's into me, I
>can't lose her now!"
>
>Or
>
>"Wait! How could she be into me this
>fast? OK, how do
>I keep this going? I can't lose her
>now!"
>
>What do you think? Am I close? :)
I'm not sure?
Many times I approach without sex in mind (I just assume it
will happen?), or with the idea of "She seems cool, maybe
she's friendly, lets get to know her!" or in a bar, "She seems
cool, let's see if she'll ask my name! Ok.. now lets see if
she will buy me a drink! ..."
It's not me who has sex-on-the-brain. It's usually the chicks!
Likely because, I don't associate approaches with sex, because
I haven't had sex from approaches! (Wierd connundrum ;-)
Nothing brought this home to me more than a great girl (solid
9) I met several months ago, after talking & dancing sexy with
her for an hour, I asked some more rapport questions, and then
asked her:
robert: tell me.. what am I picturing right now?
chick: (ddb) .... me.. with my clothes off.. on a bed.
robert: [ Um No, actually I was thinking, you're cool, I'd
like to spend more time getting to know you! Of course,
along with: Holy crap, this hot girl is into me, can I handle
this? ]
Really, I wouldn't mind "slow seduction" in some cases. Its
the chicks who often dont handle it well, and get wierd
because I'm not physically escalating or SOI'ing. My
solution here is to get comfortable with fast seduction, so I
can keep up with their internal attraction clock. :-)
Hell, I remember a cold approach to a 60 y/o grandmother and
she remarked to her group ten minutes into set that "Oh! He's
too young for me, isnt he!" :-)
>> "focus on good feelings now" -> process oriented
>> thinking
>> -> outcome independent -> more comfort -> natural
>> behavior takes over
>
>The whole point is to focus on finding
>out what you
>REALLY want to know about her while
>escalating
>physically. It's not much more
>complicated than this.
True.
>But in order to make it this simple you
>need to know
>WHAT you want to find out about her. You
>need to know
>what you want from chicks, besides sex.
>
>...
>All I'm saying is that you should focus
>on what you
>want to find out about her instead of
>what you should
>do next.
Got it.
Have to take another round at answering those questions from
your prior post.
>> >Open with your BL pointing 90 degrees
>> >away from her,
>> >ie 90 degrees between your shoulders and
>> >hers.
This is actually a confusing description IMHO. Your
shoulders are 90 degrees to her shoulders, and you
are toward her.
"pointing 90 degrees away" to me sounds like your back is
facing her and you're talking to her either sideways or like
someone from the exorcist (head screwed on backwards).
>Actually this is so important that the
>chick will
>treat you according to what your BL is
>saying! This is
>how people function!
>....
>
>It's the way stand in relation to each
>other, the way
>they look at each other, how relaxed or
>tense they
>are, the way they touch each other!!!
>
>So if you're BL comes off exactly the
>way a stranger's
>would do, then she is going to see you
>as a stranger.
>But if your BL is like more of what a
>lover would do
>then she will start to see you as a
>lover.
>
>>
>> .o^o(\<
>> .~~~..\)
>>
>> TOP VIEW (camera mounted on ceiling looking down)
>>
>> o = her shoulders
>> ^ = her head/nose (she's facing the top of the
>> monitor)
>> ~ = your arm!
>> (\) = your shoulders (facing away to right side of
>> screen)
>> < = your head, talking to her over your shoulder,
>> facing left
>> . = nothing, just there for spacing
>>
>
>I'll use your symbols, I hope it comes
>out right. I
>mean like this:
>
>|
>>
>| o^o
>~~~~~~~
>
>Do you see it? What does approaching
>like this say
>about you?
>
>1. You are bold and confident to
>approach her like
>this
>2. You aren't intimidating her with your
>BL cuz it's
>pointed 90 degrees away from her. All
>you need to do
>is turn your head to face her.
>3. You are in her space and touching
>like a LOVER
>would
>4. You are not all over her, you are
>chilling but
>showing interest.
>5. You make her feel good about herself
>6. Everybody around you see this and
>your chick will
>love the attention! :)
>
>You treat her like she is already your
>lover and she
>will start to treat you like her lover!
Had to quote the above, because I think it clears up a lot of
the missing pieces.
This is how I have opened girls when they are standing at the
bar ordering. As far as I can remember, never had a bad
reaction.. Usually, get a convo going for a 1-2 minutes,
then she goes back to her group. Absolutely right, need to
qualify & connect right away.
On 5/20/05 7:28:16 AM, razorjack wrote:
>Hey bro!
>
>Props man! It takes balls to
>go out and do this stuff!
>:)
>
>> Went out tonight to do as you describe.
>> This is much more direct BL than I was using before,
>> facing her much
>> more than before. Ok, let's pony up. Stone cold
>> sober.
>
>How were you dressed, BTW?
>
>Makes a big difference.
I'll dress like I was that night & email a pic. Nothing
"flamboyant" like I see some guys here, just contrasting
colors & different from everyone else. I'd say I was easily
more colorful than most other guys in the club (most guys
wearing black tshirts & dark denim, or etc). I was
definitely not bad boy though.
I dont wear the "standard office clothes dockers & polo
shirts" out anymore unless I go straight out after work. The
reactions are too square. Its like the opens go semi-okay,
but they can't believe their eyes or something.
I dont wear rings, jewlery, chains, earrings, watches, etc
that some guys here like to wear (I think you also wear some
rings?).
>> approach #5
>>
>>
>> 1 am.
>> Waiting, waiting, waiting for target I really want,
>> for direct.
>> Finally see her.
>> Solid 9, could be 10, with that ass, if she's also
>> got a Ph.D.
>> She's with a friend (6).
>> Hesitate, but omg, want want want.
>
>Hehehe.....Yeah I know man, I
>know! :)
>
>> Go up razorjack (as he recently posted 90 deg this
>> time), arm around,
>> lean out, open.
>> She steps away, doesn't let me finish. Turns back to
>> her friend,
>> starts talking.
>>
>> I think I said, "You're cute, I saw you and had to
>> come talk to you"
>> couldnt finish the "do you have something going
>> besides your looks"
>> (or whatever I would have improv'ed, dunno) part.
>> Recover with something vague.
>> I stand there for several seconds, walk away.
>>
>> Bar-guy says "tell her Blah Blah Blah" - something
>> in brazillian -
>> he recognizes that in her, translated: "you have a
>> cute ass."
>
>OK, let's take a few facts
>into consideration here:
>
>1. She was Brazilian?
>Brazilian guys are fairly
>aggresive from what I heard.
>Maybe she's used to that
>and was expecting you to
>continue and not bail? Hard
>to tell without actually being
>there.
Yes, I agree. Though I dont go for latina girls usually,
when I have approached latinas I get a serious "you better be
a man to me" vibe, same thing: they want a super aggressive
guy. So this Brazilian chick, likely wanted me to continue.
Hell. ALL CHICKS likely want me to continue (and not stall).
>2. She was at least a 9 and
>used to guys hitting on
>her. Now if you don't have the
>looks, style, and
>attitude to back up that bold
>approach then it won't
>work.
Ditto that, on the 'attitude to back it up'.
>3. I saw your pictures, do you
>normally go out and PU
>dressed like that?
(see above)
>I'm guessing maybe she thought
>you were too "normal"
>for her? In other words you
>saw her as a 9-10 and she
>saw you as a 7.
Sure I don't want to unnecessarily handicap myself, however, a
strong approach should blow away any visual impression she
has. It is interesting that some really good approaches have
been when I've been in grungy clothes (versus 'dressed to
impress').
I think it was just my attitude, because I can approach
strong, but the followup is lacking. Many months ago I would
just sit at the bar super laid back, and take the hands of
cute girls who walked by, and pull them into me. Always had
them light up. Though, I usually stalled a little after that.
Now I'm better, except I tend to stop as soon as I get a
objection (even ones I recognize as fake ones or even some
that are thinly disguised IOI's, like, "I have to leave soon!").
>
>> Got oneitis now, keep staring at her.
>> Interesting though, she keeps looking in my
>> direction - - could
>> be coincidence, was like 5-6 times though.
>
>No, it was curiosity! She was
>wondering what type of
>guy was bold enough to open
>like that. Maybe she
>wanted to see if you were bold
>enough to take her from
>those other guys?
>
>Being Brazilian, I wouldn't
>entirely rule that out.
Agree.
>> Keep hesitating, "open again??? with these dudes
>> there???"
>
>Sure why not?
>
>I'd open with "So do you tend
>to get alot of
>boyfriends by ignoring them
>when they try to talk to
>you?"
>
>Say with a big smile and a
>joking attitude. You're
>conveying that her ignoring
>you doesn't phase you one
>bit.
Yes, agree.
>Wait a minute here. Was your
>dick pointing at her hip
>or were you 90 degrees
>shoulder to shoulder?
>
>If this is what you did (where
>>> is your dick, LOL!
>:)):
>
>|
>> o^o
>|~~~~~
>
>Then of course she is going to
>lean back and be
>intimidated.
>
>You're supposed to be 90
>degrees shoulder to shoulder
>like this:
>
>|
>>
>| o^o
>~~~~~~
>
>Small but VITAL difference.
>This is the way friends
>and lovers stand with each
>other.
Damn! "Missed it by that much!"
I'm not sure, now. I might have had my crotch square at her
hip than farther away (staying away from the 6 after all :-).
Other thing was, I walked in normal speed. Now, relaxed BL
guidelines, say: walk super slow, use slow movements.
Though, I've tried this and it comes off a bit wierd. Likely
because I'm exaggerating it too much. Kind of like when I
tried the low-eyelid thing and a chick opened me, "you look
sleepy!" :-)
What speed do you approach?
>I think you're one cool dude,
>I like you and I mean
>that in the most homosexual
>way! :)
Thanks!
Watch out, I'll post one of my many "gay guy attempts to p/u
me" FR's.
Now I know understand much more about your style, which really
comes from your intent: to approach her as a potential lover
from the start, and find out if SHE can connect with you.
-- robert1
""""
toecutter: Beat that fear. Be a man. Beat your chest a little bit, because most
people are slave to their fears. You conquer yours. Most guys will conquer it
in context (like bungy jumping), but lets see those parachuting AFCs handling
walking into a club ALONE and SOBER and APPROACHING a girl they don't know. Or
worse ... a group of girls.
""""
|
