mASF post by "Cassandra"
posted on: mASF forum: Advanced Discussion, May 5, 2004On 4/30/04 5:31:00 AM, zarathustra_fi wrote:
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I've done this, too. And for many different reasons. It really just depends
on each individual situation.
By the way, this post is not meant to be an angry one at all, and I hope you'll
keep that in mind as you're reading it. I just want you to know what goes on
in the mind of a regular, everyday woman like myself. I don't know your
girlfriend as you do, and I don't know you either, so all I can do is guess at
what is REALLY going on. Perhaps you could write out some kind of detailed
script for us sometime, so that we could see the behind-the-scenes view,
instead of witnessing generalities, as is the case in this thread? Without
anything tangible, it's hard to come to any real conclusions. Right now it's
"my woman has been disrespectful (define 'disrespectful', please) and she shuts
down on me repeatedly, what should I do?"
Define what behaviors and utterances of hers that you call 'bullshit', too.
I'm not beyond agreeing with you, if your woman really is treating you badly.
Most of the ladies I know in the real world are very nice and don't regularly
treat their men badly. But I do know a few who do and it makes me want to tell
them off myself. At times you guys can be real bastards, and at times we women
can be real bitches, as well.
However, I wouldn't say for sure that your lady friend's behavior is
passive-aggressive unless she's DEFINITELY using silence as a tool to get back
at you for something you've either done, said, not done or not said.
In fact, if you want to get really detailed on this, start memorizing what
you've just said or done, your body language and your facial expressions and
try to determine what it is on your part that spurs her into silent mode, the
next time a fight pops up. Set up a video camera, even. She probably
interprets one (or more) of the afore-mentioned traits as your way of telling
her "You're an idiot", "I don't really give a damn about what you think", "You
are replaceable, and therefore not important to me at all", etc.
Could it be that her perceptions are in error? That happens with all of us.
It takes lots of questions to determine what's really going on (and that's
assuming that the person shutting down believes that ANSWERING those questions
would even do any good. If she's temporarily or completely given up on you,
then your questions will be useless. In other words, if this is the case, at
least in her eyes, you've already gone too far.)
So, is this silence a tool of hers, or has she just completely given up on
communicating with you? In my own life, and those of most other women I know,
it's the latter that is the case just about every time.
But what are we, those of us who call ourselves women? WHERE DO WE STAND IN
COMPARISON TO YOU, AS MEN? In just about every part of the the world we are
second class citizens, in theory and in practice; and according to the comments
made earlier in this thread, we women obviously have a value to some of you
here that's only slightly higher than the value you place on your dog. Deep
inside, we know that. In addition, we have not been endowed with the
upper-body physical strength that most men have. We know all too well that
just about any man half our size can take us down and beat us to a pulp. We
consider, too, that we can be raped, and this is something that I doubt EVER
crosses the average man's mind. If we agree to go anywhere alone with you,
it's only after we've become comfortable enough in your physical presence.
Take it from me, that takes awhile for some of us ladies out here. TRUST is a
big issue with us.
Not that you men don't value comfort and trust, as well. I've read many of you
writing here that you don't want to get involved with psychos, you do want
women to indicate an interest in you without them being too forward, and you
generally want to establish rapport over the span of one to two hours after
first meeting. Those are interesting CONDITIONS upon meeting that both sexes
appear to share. However, we females know that you have the definite
advantage. You can overpower us, force yourselves upon us; and if we're in a
very dry condition we will experience tearing of the skin and bleeding. How
likely would it ever happen likewise, where a woman might attack your asshole
in the same way? Yes, it could happen both ways, but what I'm pointing out is
that it is FAR more likely that a woman would be attacked by a man, than how it
might happen if the tables were turned.
I've read hundreds of threads here at FS101, and so many times I've read (sorry
to say this, but) clueless comments made by the men here that really boggle my
mind. And I realize that the erroneous notions that many of you have are not
your fault. Between society's notions and notions you've heard from your
friends, views of one-sided seduction masters, etc., these are the conclusions
you've come to over the years. We ladies have many erroneous notions about you
men, as well, and because of the same reasons. But at least in our case, we
are usually considerably more sensitive to the point where we at least want to
UNDERSTAND your position and how you feel and think. I'm not so convinced that
it works that way in reverse with most men (though I'd like to think that I'm
wrong on this). I get the impression many times that men want to find ways to
deal with relationship situations without first finding out exactly WHY they're
happening in the first place. That's like putting a little finger-cut-sized
bandage on a gunshot wound. With this approach to problem-solving, someone is
going to be left bleeding to death. Maybe BOTH someones, even.
So, in essence, we ladies know that situations will never be completely fair
between the sexes and most of us can accept that fact a great deal of the time.
Well, we also realize that life isn't entirely fair for anybody, overall.
We're sensitive to most things like that. You know this.
Still, all across the world we females are second class citizens in society, we
are second class in physical strength, and we are second class in social
conditioning because we are supposed to wait for you men to technically make
the first move, and it's okay for you to be angry in public but if we females
do the same we very often get chastised by men and women, alike. We are the
more sensitive and emotional side of the equation which also makes us second
class in the view of all the world's patriarchal societies, and you men prove
this by rolling your eyes and speaking sarcastically to us every time you
disagree with us, or when you see us in tears.
Note, too, how most women you meet are not competitive, as compared to men with
each other. You men have Leader/Follower mindsets, and we women have Committee
mindsets. Most of us females truly want everyone to get along, as much as is
possible. Most females *I* know, at least, are this way.
But you know what I don't get? The attitude of men who act like they've lost
power that they supposedly once had at some point in time in history. Sorry,
but from where I'm standing it appears that you've always had the REAL power,
that you still have it NOW and that you will ALWAYS have it.
And this is coming from a very strong-willed woman who is very successful in
the real world, too. In a male-dominated business, no less. Most of my really
good friends are men. I get to hear a great deal about their girlfriends,
their wives, you name it; and I know from personal experience that it's rare
that either side is completely blameless.
Still, you men will always have a greater degree of personal power than we
women will ever have. That alone makes the average male attractive to us,
alongside whatever other attributes we also like about him.
In any case, this is where we females stand, all across the globe. We know
that you, as men, have an enormous number of advantages that we will never
have. And you don't have to cower down and feel sorry for us. I'm not asking
that, and neither are most women on this planet. WE JUST WANT YOU TO
UNDERSTAND WHERE WE'RE COMING FROM. The world we all live in has been created
by our ancestors, for the most part. But it would be nice if you could realize
what's REALLY going on in our minds, and not use this information against us by
making our second class status in the world even more demeaning than it already
is.
Now let me tell you some things I learned many years ago when I was studying
Psychiatry, and also from interacting with many different people in long-term
relationships in the real world. If one person gets enraged over something
that the other person has said or done, and it doesn't really matter whether
it's a small issue or a large one, ask yourself what's REALLY going on? Does
the seemingly wounded party want power (is she a control freak?), or love (can
you show that you care when she's feeling insecure? Do you even know when
she's feeling insecure?), or is she just wanting a reasonable response from you
(do you find that you always have to be right)?
The #1 complaint that most women register with me about the men they love is
that their men are so incredibly impatient about things that don't really
matter, and that it gets in the way of good communication between them.
The #2 complaint that most women register with me about the men they love is
that as soon as a man starts having regular sex with them, he starts acting
like he owns them, and that that gets in the way of good communication between
them.
But ask yourself -- what kind of day was that person already having, to begin
with? Or both people? Perhaps both people were already having a bad day?
(Whether one is male or female, it works the same way, and forget that bullshit
notion that men don't react emotionally. Perhaps they don't come to tears as
easily as most women do, and they do a good job of learning how to hide what
they're feeling, but men react with emotion just as females do. If they
didn't, they wouldn't be human at all. They'd be robots.)
In any case, don't we humans normally go more overboard if a problem crops up
and we're already having a miserable day to begin with?
I've had clerks at stores treat me badly for no good reason at all. Most
people would say that I should punish them for their rotten behavior. NO.
That's not the way to take care of it! Why do that, as it will only further
aggravate the condition they're in? Why pour salt on an open wound? Have some
compassion for them, no matter what is happening in their life. What I do is
this: I step into a genuinely sympathetic demeanor and say something like
this, "Gee, you appear to be having a really bad day today. I bet someone has
done something to make you miserable. And I don't know the situation but I
hope it clears up for you really soon." It amazes me at how often they sigh
and take a deep breath, because SOMEBODY understands. Then I see the complete
turnaround in attitude, where they apologize for their attitude and offer to do
anything for me that I want or need.
A surly clerk is an acquaintance that we all can run into in the real world,
but how do you normally treat that woman in your relationship who has seemingly
gone overboard by either picking and/or escalating a fight with you, or by
completely shutting down on you? Do you regularly ignore that woman or make it
clear to her that she's not all that important in your life, by hinting that if
she doesn't do exactly as you say, she's very easily replaceable? If a woman
feels insecure in her relationship with a man she cares for, it's amazing the
things she might do to get him to give her what she feels that she needs. And
why is that? That's easy. All she wants is to know that you CARE.
In fact, this is the biggest thing I've learned about humans, in general, and
the way you react to someone else in distress shows whether you GET IT or not.
And it doesn't matter whether or not this is a love relationship or a business
relationship. People you interact with on a regular basis simply want to know
that you CARE. In the way you speak to them, your body language, your facial
expressions. Sometimes they want things that you can't give them right away.
Sometimes they're unreasonable and want things you've already stated that you
will NEVER give them. Sometimes your hands are tied because they want
something you can't possibly give them. Sometimes you're being unreasonable
and/or control freakish (in other words, have you gotten to the point where
anything you disagree with in your lover's behavior is what you call her
'bullshit'? Do you see yourself so elevated in importance that you think that
you have no 'bullshit' of your own?)
I hate the dog analogy that has been brought up, but I can definitely point out
potential flaws in it. Example: Your dog does something that you consider to
be completely wrong. You correct it. It tucks its tail and slinks away for a
time. It comes back later and is still acting passively. This creature loves
you, remembers the nice ways you've treated it in the past, and comes back
because it wants those sweet gestures again. HOWEVER, it also knows deep down
that it is a second or third class citizen, too. The fact that it is a
dependent will NEVER, ever leave its mind. There is FEAR of loss mixed in with
that love for you, make no mistake about that.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS VERY SIMILAR TO HOW MANY WOMEN REACT TO THE MEN
IN THEIR LIVES? (Depending on the circumstances, of course.)
So, ask yourself this. Do you encourage this dependent attitude with the LTR
woman in your life? Do you enjoy this power over her to the point where there
is an extraordinarily high degree of unfairness where there shouldn't be?
So, does that make you realize how powerful you are in this world, as a man?
That for thousands of years men have treated women this way and that they
always will? And that we women know this and react accordingly? We are the
more emotional side of the equation and therefore we GIVE UP faster. Why
should we try to defend ourselves when it does no good? Why should we defend
ourselves when you're not really listening, when you consider that your view is
the ONLY important one, when it doesn't appear as though you care?
We women know that you are the more advantageous party in a long-term
relationship, you're the one making the first move and calling the shots; and,
generally speaking, that's one reason why we give up faster than we probably
ought to.
AGAIN, please don't interpret this as a cry for sympathy at all. I'm just
explaining how it generally works to be female, and for sure I could go on all
day with examples. Plus, I know it works the same in reverse, and that you men
have lots of problems in society because of conditioning that we women will
never have, as well. BOTH sides are wounded parties, in other words. But I
can only try to express what goes on on the female side of the fence, since I
can only stand on this side during my lifetime.
If you treat your girlfriend as if everything she does or says that you don't
agree with is bullshit, then don't be surprised if she completely shuts down on
you on a regular basis.
And pretending that you haven't heard a word she says when she's talking to you
and she's angry? She will obviously get the picture that you don't CARE. If
that's what you want, and you want to eventually be rid of her, then keep on
doing what you've been doing.
Watch a child who has been wrongly accused of doing or saying something bad
that they did not do/say. They cry out that it's not their fault, and then
watch their body language -- they can't even look you in the eyes, because
they're so wounded. The same goes for people who've been convicted of crimes
they didn't commit. Right after sentencing they go berserk, "No, I didn't do
it, can't you see that". When real criminals get convicted, do you notice that
most of them aren't fazed at all? They know they're guilty and they don't give
a damn.
In either words, there can be extremes one way or the other if a person really
CARES. But if they don't, they won't think twice of walking away and never
looking back, because they don't give a rip about you.
So, either they never cared in the first place, or they got to the point where
they were so tired of fighting useless battles so that they completely gave up
on you.
When I know for sure that I've been defeated, I don't keep fighting. I shut
down completely because I realize that it's no use to keep talking. And
believe me, if the issue was EXTREMELY unfair to me, I'm going to remember it
the next time you pick a fight with me. I will shut down even FASTER the next
time. And I will continue to shut down faster and faster each successive time,
until you realize what a control freak you really are, or until I get to the
point where I GIVE UP on you entirely.
But you know what I've discovered that most women really want in this world?
They want to be involved with a nice man with a good sense of humor who has a
great deal of passion for them. That's it in a nutshell. I know too many
women to believe that incredibly obvious and CLUELESS bullshit that females
don't want the nice guy. Most of them just don't want a needy type or a
control freak, because those men suffocate them either way. It appears to work
the same way in reverse, according to all the male friends I have, and many of
you here.
The typical man would say that logical thinking should be what we all should
ascribe to. (I'm rolling my eyes. Sorry, but I've never seen a 100% logical
human in my life.) But when one loves or cares for another person in any way,
logic has to fly out the window a good deal of the time, simply so that BOTH
parties can maintain some kind of flexibility and spontaneity. Hell, we humans
are full of contradictions, male and female alike. Neither side makes any
sense to me, not after studying relationship interactions for the past 20+
years. Perhaps I know too much?
Besides, if you really want to deal with a lover who's as 'logical' as you
'think' you are, go homosexual. Stop frustrating yourself with females. LOL
(Okay, I'm joking here.)
All I CAN tell you is what goes on in my own mind, and what seems to improve
the situation when problems have cropped up for me, as well.
I'm normally a very calm person, and occasionally I've had significant others
who have lit into me over some of the craziest things. (And, yes, I can be
accused of having done the same thing in return at odd times in the past. I
can admit it. I'm human.) One time there might have been fault on one side,
another it might have been fault on both sides, some other time it was just a
bad situation and we both had to suck it up and realize that neither of us
could come out ahead. Whatever. I normally remain as calm as I can, simply
trying to keep my head together and sort it all out. I always want to find a
way to settle the argument. However, many times my significant other has
gotten even more erratic, and he'd start fighting dirty, just to get an angry
response out of me. Further on it became a session where he'd do anything to
'win' the argument. But what is really going on here? Why all this turmoil
and wanting me to become as upset as he was, himself? Just for exactly what I
mentioned earlier: THAT PERSON WANTS TO KNOW THAT I CARE. He wants to know
that I truly care about him, his viewpoint, about the situation, whatever. He
wants to be taken seriously. And as soon as I realize that I need to turn up
the heat and bring in an extra dose of love and caring, everything settles down
fast. UNLESS the situation being discussed is so serious that there is no way
to resolve it, and then if we want to stay together we simply have to agree to
disagree. But most of the time the simpler and more numerous problems boil
down to stress, temporary insecurity, and nothing more. One person might have
been having a bad day and then every little thing sets them off. One person
feels that the other has been ignoring them, or feels slighted at a recent
episode of sarcasm aimed at them. That's understandable. It happens to all of
us.
However, it's not a good reason to start playing mind games with someone, as a
way to come out ahead at any cost. Either you really do CARE, or you don't.
Either you believe in compromises with those you are emotionally connected
with, or you don't.
If you want to have a good LTR with a woman in your life, you need to regularly
show that you CARE. Turn up the heat and pour on the love, if you're dealing
with someone you're emotionally connected with, ESPECIALLY if there is a
problem between the two of you that needs ironing out. I'm supposing that many
men here will see this as supplication. Well, when you care about someone you
have to be willing to do that sometimes, that's just the way it is. If you
don't care about them, then stop having LTRs -- if there's no give and take,
there's no fucking point in being involved that deeply in the first place. Go
entirely for ONS and be as much of a control freak as you want to be. That way
your selfish attitude is only going to be firmly in place for one night only,
and there won't be any LTRs to deal with.
Interesting, too, that many of you don't seem to realize that most of the
seduction methods pointed out here are truly only geared toward ONS and the
recruitment of FB relationships. That's the only way to really maintain a
disconnected-from-the-emotions relationship; and even then, a FB is still in
danger of falling in love with you. If you 'act as if' you are in love with
someone, at least by your passionate deeds when you spend time with them, how
else is that other person going to interpret your actions, eventually? Hello?!
But for LTRs and MLTRs? Those seduction guys who write those materials don't
have good long-term relationships with ANY women, so far as I've been able to
tell. They normally go from one relationship to another with alarming
frequency. Maybe they're not selecting the right women, in the first place?
Men and women both do a lot of this, and doing your homework is always half the
battle, for long-run projects. Anyway, I think that the seduction masters are
the LAST people alive who should be answering questions on long-term
relationship problems. Their attitudes are too selfish and one-sided, and that
has to be a factor in why their own relationships don't last.
So, either you CARE so that want an emotional connection with a woman, or you
don't. I say don't play the LTR game if you're not willing to make the
necessary sacrifices and compromises. And for sure, if she really didn't give
a damn about you, she would have left at the first sign of trouble (and of
course, if she HAD left it could also mean that she had completely GIVEN UP on
you, for the reasons I pointed out earlier).
I had to really chuckle earlier at the notion that if your woman doesn't behave
appropriately that she will find herself living without your dick. LOL If
she's staying on with you at all, in a LTR or a MLTR relationship, then it's
obvious that she wants way more from you than your dick. If it was just about
the dick, she'd be happy just being a ONS or a FB. And if it was just about
the dick, with her, then that would make for a really shallow relationship,
that's for sure, as it would be if her only importance to you was the fact that
she has a vagina. Obviously there is more going on than the obvious sexual
attraction, or else you wouldn't be having these problems you've mentioned.
Besides, the easiest way to get dick that works incredibly well and has no real
problems attached is for a female to invest in a G-spot vibrator/dildo. The
only maintenance there is battery replacement. LOL If I am faced with a
choice between a regular lover in my life who is treating me like total shit
and the dildo, I'll pick the dildo every time. It gets the job done quickly
and easily and I don't have to play a bunch of fucked-up power games with it
before I get what I want.
And to be fair, to you guys, there is this little item:
http://www.pleasurelight.com/index.php?aid=216
LOL Okay, I'm getting silly. I'll go now. Sorry for such a long post.
SUMMARY: Other people just want and need to know that you CARE, when there's a
definite relationship in place between you. If the other person has a lesser
status than your own, then their NEED to know that you CARE will be higher than
it would be were the tables turned.
Cassandra O-{3-(((=
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