mASF post by "Ross Jeffries"
posted on: USENet: alt.seduction.fast newsgroup, January 1, 1997
Many of you have awaited, with baited breath, my response to Brother
Trygve. As I've just completed three strenous days of teaching, I've
finally gotten to it! Let's begin!
Let's first deal with the issue that Brother Trgyve brought up
first; production quality.
Yes, it's true..these videos were NOT professionally produced. In
fact, they were made on the spot, at a seminar, rather than scripted in a
studio, and shot by one of my loyal students, using a hi-8 camera.
I never for a moment have maintained that the videos I do are
professional quality; it's not my intention. I'm basically doing "guerilla
video" here, so if you want top notch, professionally polished stuff, go
elsewhere.
My sole interest and intent is delivering, hard-hitting, no-fluff,
no-fat stuff that guys can use in the real world. And it disappoints me
that Trgyve, who at least seems a pretty sharp guy, would spend SO much
time belaboring things that have NOTHING to do with the content of the
videos, the workability of the ideas expressed, etc.
For the record, we HAVE changed duplication houses and are working
on improving our overall production/quality control. You still will NEVER
see slick production values on my videos or anything else for that matter,
but..oh well. We can't please everyone.
But let's deal with the most important thing, which is Trgyve's
comments on the CONTENT of the videos and the ideas expressed.
"However, all these technical nuisances and distractions aside, it was
immediately apparent to me that Ross does come across a lot better in
video form than I've seen him in text form (either his printed books and
newsletters or his material available on the net)."
This is what I've maintained all along to my critics here on the net;
Speed Seduction is designed to be SPOKEN, NOT READ! You simply cannot get
it through reading text of any kind, much less asci!
"Much of the time Ross does manage to be an engaging, if unpolished,
speaker and I also believe that, despite all the production flaws, Ross'
taped course is a
much more effective way of learning his material and that it presents a
considerably deeper and more thorough explanation of his system."
This again is what I've been maintaining all along. But I note that
although Trgyve says the presentation is considerably deeper and more
thorough, he NEVER expounds on just what those ideas that were expounded
upon so deeply and througly WERE. I was more interested in what he thought
of the principles I teach than his opinions on my presentation of the
principles. But I WILL, nonetheless, graciously accept the complement.
(snippage)
"But now, I've had the opportunity to see Ross' patterns performed
vebally, complete with gestures, body language, tone of voice, and
crotch-pointing, and I can tell you that they do come across differently
in video form. In text, they sound stilted and awkward with frequent
forays into the irritating; by contrast, when you can see and hear Ross
do them, even though they still sound just as stilted and awkward, they
take on the added dimension of conveying the impression of a potentially
dangerous lunatic you might meet late at night in a bus station"
Well, this is a nice personal slam, and I certainly disagree with it. I
can point you to folks who are certified master practicioners and trainers
of nlp who consider me their peer and equal when it comes to training,
such as Rex Sikes, John Lavalle, and Carmine Baffa, but it would just be
more "I sez..you sez". I think the patterns sound stilted and awkward to
Trgyve because he doesn't like what's being taught..but oh well. This is
an argument about style, once again, and not substance.
What about the IDEAS expressed? The concepts? If this is about
whether Speed Seduction truly does work, rather than Trgyve's personal
responses to the way I present my material, then why aren't we hearing
about this?
"In all fairness, Ross did bring up a couple of his associates who seemed
to be able to speak SpeedSeductionese without sounding nearly so stilted
or insane, so this may be as much Ross' personal style as anything else"
Or about your personal likes and dislikes when it comes to a speaker's
presentation. By the way, I hardly see how I can simaltaneously be
engaing and stilted, but I won't press Trygve about this contradiction in
his review.
"In any case, my advice to a would-be student planning to watch these
tapes would be to pay the least amount of attention to Ross' specific
patterns; there are actually some perfectly reasonable ideas behind
them, so think about the ideas underneath--which might prove
useful--rather than the specific words--unless, of course, you're
intending to play an unbalanced bus-station denizen in a local theater
production."
Ah ha. We actually manage to get some opinion on content! "Actually
some perfectly reasonable ideas behind them!".
Thank you, Trygve. Can we take this to mean that you believe the
fundamental principles I teach...using language to capture and lead the
imagination in a focused way to get a result..that sort of thing.....are
actually quite sound, true and valid? Thanks for the endorsement!
And...I agree! DONT take the patterns word for word. They AREN'T
rules...they are EXAMPLES of how to structure communication in a way that
leads a listener from state to state until they reach the final state you
want them in. I like nothing better than when students come up with their
own languaging and patterns following the basic principles I teach them!
"Wait, did I just say "useful"? Yeah, I did; there's actually a fair bit
of good material in there and a lot of concepts that are, in fact,
valuable and useful. "
I agree. I'm just disappointed that you won't list and review them one
by one, when you spend SO much time SPECIFICALLY attacking the production
values, my shirt, etc. etc. What SPECIFIC concepts did you find valuable
and useful? If your intent was to be fair and balanced, why don't you(or
didn't you) name at least 3 or 4 instead of wasting SO much bandwith on
things that have NOTHING to do with, and no bearing on the issue of
whether SS is valuable and workable?
"You have to pay a bit closer attention to pick
them out sometimes, since the flim-flam seems much more the focus of
attention, but at the heart of what Ross is saying, there are a lot of
good ideas and techniques."
Well, well, well. Here, one of my most vociferous critics on
soc.singles is saying some very nice things. Let's quote him again..
"at the heart of what Ross is saying, there are a lot of good ideas and
techniques".
Bless my soul! I think that's the closest I will EVER get to an
endorsement from a soc.singles grand high poobah, and actually I take not
a little pride in it! Thanks Trygve. I'll quote you in my next mailing
piece, good buddy!
"I won't give away all of Ross' secrets here, but Ross does present some
perfectly valid approaches for building rapport, getting and keeping
someone's interest conversationally, moving things in directions that
aren't purely platonic, keeping yourself focused, and maintaining your
confidence. I suppose you could even point at your crotch while doing
it if you really wanted to, but if you really want to try that
technique, I'd suggest being a lot more subtle and considerably more
sensual about it than Ross manages."
Ha! Notice when we get to me SUBSTANCE even ol' Trygve has to give my
due. "Moving things in directions that aren't purely platonic".
Well...isn't that what I've been claiming I can teach guys to do all
along? If a critic like Trygve admits I've got good stuff in this
area..and if that IS something you'd like to learn...doesn't it behoove
you to at least get some of my recorded stuff....perhaps some audios that
don't suffer the production quality problems Trygve has harped upon? Hmm?
"Even a lot of the various patterns and such that Ross mentions are
reasonably likely to work at least on some people (especially if you can
make them sound less cheesy than Ross manages)--though in many cases,
the reasons I think they would work would not be the reasons that Ross
gives. "
I think you'd be suprised to learn just how many people they work on,
and, as in all types of suggestion/hypnosis, they work better THE SMARTER
the person is!
(Snip)
"Incidentally, do _not_ use Ross' tapes as a guide to fashionable dress;
Hawaiian shirts, gold chains"
Hawaiian shirts? I don't think so. Not on the tutorial videos. But
again..this is a snide personal slam rather than a comment on the validity
of my ideas. Shame shame, Trgyve.
(More personal slams snipped!)
"In the final analysis, I think you can find a lot of whatever you happen
to be looking for in Ross' tapes. If you're genuinely looking to
improve your communication skills, particularly as pertains to dealing
with potential romantic or sexual partners, there are some good insights
and techniques to be found (there's also a lot of junk too, so keep your
crap detectors running while you're watching)."
Well, what more could I expect? I don't see how this can be seen as
anything but a ringing endorsement, considering the source. If you don't
want videos, I suggest the Seduction Masters audio tape series,
PROFESSIONALLY recorded with EXCELLENT sound...no need to see my cheesy
sets, poor satorial displays, etc. etc. Order now and get a 20% off
soc.singles discount when you mention Trygve's name as you find yourself
dialing 703-791-6421.
--
Get Laid NOW!
Ask me how!
http://www.seduction.com
"He's Sargy...Sargy J. CAT!!!"
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