mASF post by "finalD"
posted on: mASF forum: General Discussion newsgroup, October 10, 2002Mostly Off-Topic
I thought I'd ask the collective intelligence here at the newsgroups
whether or not you could help me with something that is marginally related
to PU, although the discussion will probably not help newbies to become
better at getting laid. This is largely Off-Topic. I wouldn't blame a
moderator for deleting it, but I nevertheless hope it sticks around here
long enough for some intelligent discussion to start.
I am interested in finding useful internet resources (or books / study aids
/ anything else) that will help me to live a more financially successful
life. I'm broke, and sick of working for too little. It seems I am destined
to be trailer trash. :-P
These financial / job discussions come and go on our seduction newsgroups
here. Mostly, I've followed through on the financial understandings that
I've gained, but I have found a phenomenon in "general society" that
resists the type of learning that I want, a phenomenon not unlike the
acculturation that goes on to try to keep AFCs in "their proper place" and
prevent them from knowing the truth of the game out there.
Basically, the way I see it, here's the old myth: "get a good job, work
hard all day, and soon you'll be recognized and promoted and, as long as
you continue to succeed at your position, you'll find that you get rewarded
in a manner that you deserve. Failing that, take some financial risks, make
sure you can handle the risk burden, and the economy will support you.
Money is a good thing, get to know it and love it." I personally don't
believe that this myth actually works, and I see in it many parallels to
the false lessons propagated at AFCs, lessons that prevent many men from
taking advantage of a system that is largely rigged against them. This
newsgroup, and the layguides, and so forth, provide a new perspective from
which to view the mating game. I would like a similarly new perspective
from which to view the financial game.
My experiences in internet-land regarding finances, work, and income, have
largely been very similar to my experiences as an AFC in internet-land
regarding women, at least until I found the layguides. People give me the
typical advice (mostly, the "myth" listed above) and then tend to get quite
offended if I question some of the presumptions behind the myth. For
example, I get a lot of disturbed responses if I suggest that I doubt that
I'll get promoted out of the mail room even though I'd work hard in the
mail room. But I distrust my chances for promotion because (among other
reasons) I'm a white male, and because when you work at a menial job it no
longer proves your willingness to contribute to the company but instead
proves that you will let the company treat you like shit, and so they'll
only promote those people who REFUSE the job in the mail room. I have lots
of other "against the grain" financial experiences, which I'd love to
discuss here.
Much independent financial advice centers on the notion of entrepeneurship,
and many books available at your local Barnes and Noble suggest some
similar paths to success. One fundamental is, to keep your spending well
below your income ("live within your means") and invest the remainder.
Another fundamental is, that your spending largely needs to be for the
purchasing of assets (I would simply call that act, "investing") rather
than liabilities.
I do agree with those fundamentals. However, both of those fundamentals
assume that there's sufficient income to actually SAVE some in the first
place. I personally do not always experience such a luxury. Mostly never.
In fact, a first principle in nearly ALL "get rich quick" or "get rich
slow" books, is that you currently have a job. I don't. My favorite work on
finances, "Your Money or Your Life," is the only book I've ever found that
even addresses the issue of having an excessively low income, by suggesting
that you "owe it to yourself" to demand that society treat you with
(financial) respect. Other books that I've found don't go much into the
idea of getting promoted, or getting more salary for the same level of
work, or somehow breaking free of the bond that I have personally
consistently undergone, which is that because I'm not experienced, I don't
get to have a high-level job, and thus I don't get any experience.
I am willing to work hard, and do enjoy certain types of labor, and I
certainly have a sharp mind, a broad-ranging intellect and intelligence,
the social capacities to handle typical polite work interactions, and a
good education. But I also find that I am often assumed to be "doing fine"
at a rather low level by my bosses and other people who might be in a
position to improve upon my income. I don't exactly have the financial
knowledge to "strike out on my own" in a manner that would allow me to stop
depending on the approval of other people for improvements to my income
(and anyway this newsgroup ought to be packed with people who know HOW to
get other people's approval in the first place, right?). So, although
entrepeneurship could beckon to me in the distant future, currently I'm
kind of not prepared for that (I don't think).
One reason I don't think of myself as an independent businessman, is that
I'm not really the sort of guy who "loves" capitalism the way most of the
entrepeneurs I've met "love" it, believe in it, and think of the world as
better off because of free-market competition. As a close friend of mine
recently wrote, we run our society more on the basis of dimpling golf balls
more aerodynamically, than on the basis of feeding the elderly more
healthily. I have assumptions counter to that. I find it a hard bit to chew
on, to have to sign up for the role of golf-ball dimpler in the face of so
many old people needing better food. Certainly part of the old myth, that
"greed works" (see "Wall Street," the movie, duh), includes the idea that
the old people will get better food once the economy pumps up to a greater
success level thanks to spending in the golf ball sector; but I don't buy
so much of that myth. In principle, it seems nice; but in practice, it
doesn't work out that way.
It's too pat, too neat. Adam Smith style free-market competition doesn't
always feed the elderly healthily at all, regardless of improved spending
in the golf ball sector. That theory reminds me too much of Jasmine's
recent explanation (see ASF.playettes) of how she thinks she picks up a
man. Her version is exactly how you're "supposed" to do it. But it's not
ACTUALLY how anyone DOES do it. So, I hold that the whole Adam Smith style
notion of free-market competition is one of those tenets of the "myth" that
rigs the game against people like me. It's part of the "AFC rules" of how
you're "supposed" to lead your life, rules that (if you go along with them)
keep the game rigged against you.
Well, actually, I don't literally have a clear understanding of the AFC
rules in finances, relative to the "real" picture. I'm pretty sure of what
constitutes an AFC in mating with women; but I'm kinda hazy on the
financial definition of the game. So, maybe SOME of competition works, some
doesn't, some is tangential, whatever. I don't know. I'd like to learn,
just how much of the "game" of money is rigged against me, and how I can
"un-AFC-ize" myself relative to income just like I'm doing the same
relative to sex with hot women.
Example. Just to dispel some of the myths of the self-made man: according
to a recent TV documentary, Bill Gates (the classic story of the American
die-hard who worked his butt off, saw an opportunity, and therefore got the
riches he "deserved") actually founded six companies that failed, before he
founded Microsoft. Each failed venture lost him cartloads of money, but on
each occasion he was bailed out by his obscenely wealthy parents. His
mother was on the board at IBM, his grandfather founded a bank. In my case,
and in the case of most of this newsgroup's readers, the first of those six
failures would have bankrupted us to the extent that we would never have
had the OPPORTUNITY to found five subsequent failures, never mind number
SEVEN, which was Microsoft. I was disgusted to see the TV documentary tote
out the old "don't quit" aspect of the myth, without mentioning that Gates
was FREE not to HAVE TO quit, because he was CONNECTED. I wouldn't be.
Meanwhile, during Gates' early work founding Microsoft, hundreds of other
"visionary" entrepeneurs were also founding similar computer ventures; the
fact that Gates' succeeded and others' failed, is as much a testament to
Gates' parents' connections, as to his own hard work. The rags-to-riches
myth, of "work hard and you'll get your just reward," simply doesn't apply
when you know the truth about many American success stories like Bill
Gates. Carnegie thrived on insider trading that would be illegal today;
Rockefeller formed trusts and monopolies that were almost instantly illegal
at the time, and would probably make him about as reviled and indicted as
an Enron CEO nowadays; and so forth.
We have cultural myths to "keep things as they are," because the myths
largely get written by the winners. The women tell AFCs how they're
"supposed" to approach women, and guess what? The things the women tell
'em, keep the WOMEN in charge. Likewise, the rich tell the poor how they're
"supposed" to make their riches, and (again) guess what? The things the
rich tell 'em, keep the RICH in charge.
I'd like to know how to go about busting the myth and getting my own money.
Resources like ASF.moderated helped me to bust the AFC myth about picking
up women, and now I know some of the things I need to start working on,
some of the ways I can take charge of my own life and move forward. Just
knowing that the game is rigged, that other people think it's rigged, and
that I don't have to play by the rigged rules, is in itself a wonderfully
liberating experience. Regarding women. However, I haven't yet felt
liberated by finances. I wonder if there's ANYWHERE that I can find similar
myth-breaking intelligence, regarding money, jobs, income, and financial
success.
I think I've rattled on enough, for you guys to get an idea of what I'm
talking about. If you think this discussion is entirely too off-topic to go
on this newsgroup, but you have something useful to contribute, please
contact me via e-mail, at finalidentity at mail dot com. I've had a few
useful interchanges with some people from ASF already -- Kakol (remember
him?), Jack Ryan (I miss him already; his contributions were needed and
wanted), and Alessandro (but, sorry A, I'm starting to think your
recommendations were WITHIN the whole rigged-against-me game, and not
OUTSIDE it). I wonder if others would like to chip in?
Thanks for your time, for this off-topic discussion.
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