mASF post by "toecutter"
posted on: mASF forum: General Discussion newsgroup, October 10, 2003On 10/7/03 1:42:00 PM, formhandle wrote:
>>workshop may take my PUA
>>CHALLENGE (the same one I gave
>>to RJ).
>
>I don't recall the details of
>that, but am curious. I'm
Repost from Cliffs list. Ross backed down and made excuses when none should
have been acceptable.
> Ross: I don't know any such thing. What I do know is it is NOT about what
you, and individual can do, or Swinggcat or me.
Mystery: This is an obvious attempt at reframing the challenge so you don't
have to take it. This challenge IS about you. I challenge YOU, Ross. Step up or
not. You can't EXCUSE yourself forever. Let me, for your satisfaction, put
forth TWO challenges then if it'd make you happy ... MM vs SS: Mystery vs Ross
PLUS 3 of my best students vs. 3 of yours. Or how about 5. Style, Tyler Durden,
Papa, Maddash and . And just because I totally accept the challenge of top 5
vs. top 5 students, does NOT mean I don't still DIRECTLY CHALLENGE YOU, ROSS!
> Ross: It is whether what you do can be conveyed to others so they can have
equivalent success even when they don't have your natural advantages: good
looks, youth and your advantages that took years of training: performing.
Mystery: You can say that about everyone then! The reason I'm good looking to
others is due to my social proof - and since you were a comedian and have
performed SS for women, I think you too have the advantage of performance
training. I'm not good in the game because I'm a performer, dude, I'm a
performer because I'm good in the game (a stage show is merely a 500-set). Take
my challenge. Come on, Ross, you vs. me, and 5 of mine vs. 5 of yours. Or 3. Or
none. I will bend backwards to accommodate you. I find it funny that you fail
to accept my challenge because I have 'performance training'. I wish to use
this
DIRECT CHALLENGE TO ROSS to answer two questions that burn in the minds of our
seduction community: which is better, MM or SS ... and ... who is better,
Mystery or Ross.
> Ross: Can your STUDENTS really do what you can do? Whatever
principles/methods you use, are they enough for your STUDENTS, who don't carry
your personal advantages along, to duplicate your results?
Mystery: Again, you continue with your reframe from PERSONAL CHALLENGE to
STUDENT CHALLENGE. I'm more concerned with the "who is better, Mystery or Ross"
question but yes I ACCEPT your STUDENTS vs. STUDENTS challenge. Hell, I'd even
accept this: take 2 guys who don't know how to PU women, 2 guys with little to
no skill of equal basic stats (to be selected MUTUALLY) and you teach SS to one
in a 3 day period and I take the other and MM him for 3 days. Whoever gets
better interactions, hotter women, more #s, a lay ... will reveal which system
is better. The judges watch the video footage of both guys on day 4. I'm EASILY
up for that too, yo. But just because I offer STUDENT challenges does not mean
I still don't slap YOU PERSONALLY with my glove, Ross.
> Ross: Can you take a student terrified to talk to a woman, work with him, and
in 5 minutes have him going out, meeting women WITHOUT fear?
Mystery: I don't teach that. I don't hypnotize a guy to feel confidence,
rather, I coach him to possess real-world, in-field experience so that he
builds COMPETENCE. REAL COMPETENCE ... not some little 5 minute MIND TRICK so
he can run up to girls and hit on them.
> Ross: I can...I've done it for years and have all the proof you would ever
want or need. So..as teachers...how about we compete in terms of what
transformations we can create FOR OUR STUDENTS?
Mystery: Yes, I accept your offer - this doesn't answer who is the better PUA,
but only who is the better teacher. A different challenge and one that merely
REFRAMES the challenge I initially put forth. But as an additional challenge,
sure I'll bite. Not only am I a better PUA with better pulling power... but
also a better TEACHER. Why? I have a better teaching method (in field!) and a
better practical system to get guys pulling. I'll give you one thing though:
you have a better business model. Readers must be aware by now that you are a
shining example of "do as I say, not as I do." I believe in the "do as I do"
method of teaching. That way you can SHOW THEM your methods WORK.
> Ross: We each get 6 guys who are TERRIFIED of women. We get a total of an
hour to work with them.
Mystery: I teach COMPETENCE, I don't hypnotize guys in an hour to FEEL
confident for a short time to run up to girls and simply say the same crap
every other AFC says to them.
Ross: Then we go out in the field and the competition is to see HOW OUR
STUDENTS DO. Isn't that the real test of what REALLY counts: how effective we
are as agents of change and as teachers?
Mystery: By HYPNOSIS? No, the REAL TEST is: do you accept my PERSONAL
CHALLENGE? Mystery vs. Ross. We video 25 approaches and get judged on WHO IS
BETTER. SIMPLE! I'm sure you are just GREAT at hypnotizing people in an hour.
But ... what everyone wants to know is ... can you PICK UP? Who is better?
Mystery or Ross.
Ross: No one hires you to show off what you can do for the sake of proving that
you, Mystery, can do it.
Mystery: I'm not doing this for BUSINESS, dude. This is about one sensei
challenging another. Simple. And by backing down, if this affects your
credibility, so be it. I've accepted every challenge you gave me (except the
one about tricking guys to have the guts to approach in an hour. You know my
method for dealing with anticipatory anxiety is to be COMPETENT first. After
all, CONFIDENCE comes AFTER your become COMPETENT. Anything else is a simple
mind trick.)
> Ross: No one hires me to show what I can do for the sake of proving I can do
it. They want changes for themselves. That's what it is about.
Mystery: That is what it's about for BUSINESS. This challenge however is
PERSONAL. It's MYSTERY vs ROSS. But yes, and if you also want an MM vs SS
challenge, 5 students, or 3 or 6 or whatever, we can do that, TOO! And if you
want to see the results of a man you teach in 3 days (your seminar) and of a
man I teach (my workshop) on video, I'll say yes to that, too.
> Ross: If you really want to go one on one against me, let's make it about our
skills as teachers and agents of change. That's what really matters.
Mystery: Heres an idea: let's do ... BOTH! Tada! That way people don't accept
your excuses as actually valid. Either you have it or you don't. So to recap:
1. Mystery vs. Ross
2. Top 5 students vs. top 5
3. Best student after learning SS or MM.
I challenge you with ALL THREE, dude. And ... we video it ALL! Haa, this will
be great for people to JUDGE for themselves. Do you accept?
> Ross: I'm old and ugly and I can STILL get chicks. So anyone can duplicate
me.
How many can really duplicate you? I wonder...
Mystery: Well then, let's STOP WONDERING. Accept my above three challenges and
answer the top three questions:
1. Who is better, Mystery or Ross?
2. Which method is better, MM or SS?
3. Who is the better teacher, Mystery or ross?
>> Mystery: For FUN sure, I'll challenge Swinggcat and Rick H. and hell I can
do that anytime I'm in LA cause they are both good eggs and I'd hang with them
ANYWAYS. But come on, Ross, do you back down? You vs. me? SS creator vs. MM
creator. This is Battle of the Network Superstars. Dude, yes or no. No excuses.
> Gold Dragon Phoenix: A contest between Mystery and Ross would prove nothing
more than which one pulled more chicks that night.
Mystery: No, we video 25 approaches. Do 1 a night for 25 nights or over the
course of a week, I don't care. Do them all in one day if you'd like (that is,
if you HAVE to when you don't actually turn the approaches into anything more
than a snub)
> Gold Dragon Phoenix: It says nothing about whether either dude can teach guys
HOW TO do what they do.
Mystery: Yes, and that is a separate challenge that I GLEEFULLY ACCEPT!
> Gold Dragon Phoenix: That's the big question they're busy avoiding isn't it?
Mystery: No this is NOT avoided. I ACCEPT! However, let this particular
challenge not eclipse the BIG QUESTION many want to know: who is better,
Mystery or Ross?
> Gold Dragon Phoenix: We should judge seduction teachers not by the skill of
their best students, but rather by the improvement in the WORST students.
Mystery: As a TEACHER, I accept being judged. AND ... as a PUA too, I accept
being judged! As for the WORST STUDENTS, I don't accept those with mental or
physical defects in the first place. If this is YOUR BURNING QUESTION so be it,
but most guys in the seduction community regarding Ross and Mystery ask, "who
is better?" I just want to show them (and Ross) once and for all who IS in fact
better. As for the 5 WORST challenge, that is ILLOGICAL. Of course there are
guys who learn something and then don't DO IT anyways. It's the responsibility
of the student and not the teacher to put information into action. Note how all
this started ... people want to know who is better and I put up the challenge.
Only after Ross FAILED to accept this, did he come up with OTHER challenges,
some of which I accept. But WORST CASES? Please. I've met some guys who should
just SHOOT THEMSELVES NOW. I don't work with mental defects, sorry. And yes,
the WORST can get pretty bad.
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