mASF post by "spirit"
posted on: mASF forum: Advanced Discussion, May 5, 2005Heya, no probs - It was intended in the spirit of helping =o)
In part I was definately slammin on you because I've enjoyed your posts &
every once in a while simply wish you'd expend the same effort towards PU
lol
...I do concede that without knowing where to direct that effort can be
counter-productive
Logistics can, in part, be a matter of awareness - are you aware of what's
going on? Not simply as a brief snap-shot but as part of a larger whole.
Perhaps it's one of the reasons why I prefer an 'analog' approach to PU in
preference to a 'digital' view... hmm...
Anyways... A guy walks into a bar....
....shitty jokes aside, which bar? at what time? why?
I guess the answer is probably best explained by logistics - assuming you
take the time to pay attention to things in general, you start to notice
that there is often a certain 'rhythm' to it all. For sure there'll be
anomalies like people who work nights or bars etc yet the majority work 9-5
and go out fri/sat... It's slightly different for different age groups and
cultures etc - but they each have their own rhythm...
So... which goddamn bar?
Well we all have our own preferences and some places cater for those to a
greater or lesser extent... and you go out and visit them all to find out
which ones you like! ...and you visit them at different times!
Two of my favourite places where I live are on the same road and they've
both targeted a different clientel in effect meaning that you tend to get
different types of people in each. They both share the same features pretty
much - both do food, have comfy sofas, a small dance area and serve
drinks... In the daytime both are fairly quiet a slight difference in
customer type but not all that great a difference...
Friday nights... One of them is HEAVING, packed to the roof with loud
music whereas the other has a strict door policy, gets busy but not too busy
and has a piano player for a large proportion of the night and it's not too
loud to talk (makes it a bit awkward admittedly). It's pretty much the same
across town throughout all the bars in varying amounts - some places better
for talking, others for drinking and dancing, some for both and so on...
Once you have an idea of the kinda places you like it's much easier to
'plan' your way through the evening without much thought. For examples sake
you've met a girl and decide to take her to a bar (not that I like bars of
course lol ) So the logistics could be something like ensuring a venue
change at some point... Which bar do you go to first?
I guess the vague FR answer might be "and then me and the girl moved to
another place" so avoiding that here's how I might go about deciding where
to go and in which order...
Out of the two bars above I'd probably go to the one that ends up heaving
first... it has the same comfort level initially ( i like my comfy sofas)
and it's possible to talk, as the night picks up and more people turn up the
atmosphere changes, the music comes on and gets louder, the occasional knock
becomes more frequent or whatever, it's taking longer to get served at the
bar etc... So you enjoy yourself for a while longer doing whatever and then
suggest (or insist lol) that you move on to another place... Now, the
second place has a much more 'pretentious' bunch of patrons and visited by a
few celebs - it has a good atmosphere, just less of a 'free for all' by the
same time in an evening...
So why not go to the 'better' one first?
Well, we assumed that a venue change is a good thing (if we didn't - assume
it now) so if we'd started in the 2nd bar imagine trying to tempt her with a
bar packed to the roof, too hot etc... it isn't gonna be that easy by
comparison. So we start with the 1st 'lesser' bar and the 2nd is a much more
appealing option - making it much easier to venue change.
On the same night out we have another 'logistical' problem - door policy...
the 2nd bar has a strict door code of 'cool','stylish' & expensive... only
a simple thing to be aware of yet you need to ensure that you BOTH are
wearing something acceptable as it gets stricter as the night progresses...
A few logistical options:
turn up early enough that it doesn't matter
ensure you both wear something appropriate
befriend someone who works the door or in the place
get on the guest list
...assuming you feel that you may not get in later the options change a
little - if you go there earlier before the guys on the door turn up you
should be able to stay there - the rest of the night might be fine if you
feel like it yet, if you really want to include a couple of venue changes
you need to have a fairly good idea of somewhere else that will let you in
and has an environment close to what you're looking for.
...and none of this is even assuming going somewhere for sex lol
For me this can be at times a bit of an issue as I like a wide range of
things yet because of the culture here I can make it easier or more
difficult for myself to get into places due to clothing... So 'logistically'
I have to dress in a way that will get me into as wide a range of venues as
possible unless I'm on a night out in a specific scene ( e.g. metal/goth)
and know I'm gonna stick to those places...
Other logistical things can be things like travel - i.e. does she have to
get the last train back anywhere? or some other thing that could curtail
the evenings activities...
Let's assume she does...
a few options
1. sex before she goes
2. enjoy the night and say goodbye when she has to leave
3. she stays and goes somewhere with you for sex
In other words we have a time constraint we're working with so, assuming we
have some influence over events, we have a deadline to work with or break...
If we want sex and want her to get the train then the game that you play has
to be geared up for that... If we want to have a fun night and know that sex
is outta the question and she can't stay over (because you didn't clean your
damn bathroom and don't have the required tp mountain) then running game to
influence a more guaranteed second meet could be more appropriate... the
same goes for the third option - different outcome, different game...
As ever there are loads of different things we could take into account and
that you will encounter lol
For example, I want sex before she goes - escalate as swiftly as possible,
get her wanting sex and make it happen by having the other logistics in
place to do that... Now this could be your place or the toilets in a
bar/alleyway round the back whatever... So your final place of
luuurve-making could determine what you talk about and seduce her with
during the night... For the option of breaking her time constraint you
might choose to escalate more slowly but steadily, dangling the carrot of
"the best is yet to come" in front of her so that she's getting to the peak
just before having to make that decision... No point in taking her to the
best place before she goes as there's nothing to look forward to or feel
like she's missing out on... work with the time constraint and arrive
there a very short while before she has to leave - give her a taste of it
before the clock attempts to take it away... which makes it easier for her
to decide to stay...
So why consider option 2 at all? well it all depends on context and what
you want... you see we could throw in the fact that she has something
important to do in the morning and will then be free all afternoon... once
you have some kind of awareness of what's going on you can work towards
different things - like meeting up tomorrow afternoon and winding up in bed
together - thus influencing your game the previous night... You could still
fuck the night before and work towards the same thing...
It's all swing n roundabouts to a certain extent - knowing what you;re
working with simply enables you to do this more efficiently...
oh and in my post with 1-1 i meant 1on1, tete a tete etc... (not 101 or
IOI) Like a compromise between being in a packed bar with limited
conversation oppportunity but other ways of having fun and moving inbetween
those places and being able to talk to each other properly.
In some ways the only way you may 'get' this is by getting out in the field
more and paying attention - find places you like that are good for different
things and that perhaps complement each other in different ways... If you
go out regularly it's something that I think most people pick up on fairly
quickly like that a friday night will often be dominated with people who
work in the city and are going out after work whereas saturday will have a
greater proportion of 'out of towners' who have made more of an effort to go
out there... You want more intellectual/stimulating convo - go hang out in a
bar near a few legal firms after work... or a place near some larger
media/creative firms etc... but be aware that this doesn't guarantee
anything - you may end up pu-ing the cleaner...
Perhaps one way of speeding up this 'logistical nightmare' is to breakdown
your PU into a few things that are important to you for a while, things like
time constraints - are you approaching with a fixed/false time constraint?
gear up your game to make an impression before leaving - not a flat lifeless
covo... if you feel the need to include at least one venue change in your
PU - think about it beforehand, where are you going to go and why... sarge
everywhere except the place you want to end up in etc...
Again, if you go out regularly you also notice that at different times there
are more or less people and what kind of people at different times etc...
Very Rough example:
5-6pm people from work, still in work groups often still talking work
6-7pm some work people leave, a few people arrive, usually friends, and
the group dynamic changes - usually followed by venue change
7-8pm more people who aren't from a nearby business place arrive,
different groups enter, places start filling up more
8-10pm more 'random' arrivals, places filling up, less movement between
places
10pm+ people going to final place whether bar, club or pre-club bar...
If you need sleep decide when and where you can break that constraint and
for what reasons... otherwise work with it and gear up your PU knoiwing it's
there in advance - it's very similar to 'being busy'...
I know this has only glossed over the surface of things but let me know if
it's of any use and feel free to ask more etc
Spirit
<finalD> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> spirit wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> Spirit
>>
>>
>
> That was a pretty awesome post, Spirit.
>
> I did notice were were kinda slammin' on me, and I do feel you missed a
> few of the points -- like, for example, when I explained I wasn't
> bemoaning logistical difficulties as much as looking for solutions to
> them, to which you answered that I needed to stop bemoaning the
> logistical difficulties, heeheehee. Also, the business about living a
> boring life is part true but also partly waaaaay off target, probably a
> function of the internet / limited information / etc.. I used to have a
> "different" life but I frankly can't afford, in terms of time or energy
> or money, to do much more than I'm doing nowadays. I'd love to be the
> social "center" at work but I'm exhausted. Work sucks. It exhausts me. I
> want to be king of the world so that I can take a day off. And when I
> take that day off, the LAST fucking thing IN THE FUCKING WORLD that I
> want to do is meet new annoying hot little prissy cunts at some loud
> dance club. So yeah, I'm "boring." :P
>
> But I'll take your post in the spirit it was (I hope) intended, to help
> not harm, so I have some observations.
>
> I guess one problem is that I don't enjoy highly social environments. I
> never have. It's not that I'm an introvert (Myers-Briggs et al.). I
> consistently test highly extroverted on all those things, and my own
> knowledge of myself suggests that this is the case, too. Rather, it's
> that I am "intellectual" -- can't help it, wouldn't want to try to
> pretend otherwise since the congruency will always be a problem -- and
> have all the disadvantages that this entails. My brain doesn't thrive on
> vapid, shallow discourse, I tire of it, I get EXHAUSTED. I sarge well
> in environments in which conversation can take place, and I lose my vibe
> easily wherever there's sound infiltration.
>
> By the way, isn't anyone else out there sleepy all the fucking time? How
> in HELL do you work in exercise, bedtime, work, food, laundry, and
> also sarging? Something has to give. Yeah, the life is "boring" but I
> don't (I really hope) come across as "some dull guy who doesn't do
> anything interesting" when I'm sarging. I have good stories, and the
> targets don't need to know that I actually live the life of a drudge. :P
> I didn't pick this life, anyway, so my fantasies are always active. :)
> Seriously, I realize where you could have concluded that, but I'm
> basically the vibrant one in the room. I have a sort of Leonine (as in
> astrology sign of Leo) charisma to draw others into my glow, as long as
> THEY CAN GODDAMNED HEAR ME.
>
> Your comments about some of the social dynamics that you observe and
> participate in, are UTTERLY FOREIGN to me. I guess it never occurred to
> me that there's some kind of situational differences among different
> loud-cacophonous venues, or different times of night. I hate these
> venues for their cacophony and can't really distinguish among them. I
> don't feel a one-oh-one vibe, or know how to manage it. I'm amazed that
> it even occurred to you to NOT escalate early, merely because you knew
> you'd have to spend another five hours with the chick before escalation
> could possibly be fruitful. These sorts of observations are, basically,
> LOGISTICAL, and they're things I didn't actually know about.
>
> Your commentary about what you do, therefore, has a kind of "from
> Mars" aspect to it, for me. I mean, congratulations that you know not to
> escalate until later in the evening, if you know that you're going to
> have to spend most of the evening without a fuck-venue and therefore
> late escalation will be more effective than early escalation.
> Congratulations on HAVING LOGISTICAL SKILLS. This is a useful comment to
> me, only in that it points out to me something that I now understand I
> did not have. How do you know when you'll have to spend a whole
> evening with the chick before you can get a fuck?
>
> I mean, WHO THE HELL TOLD YOU what the future was going to hold? I would
> never have KNOWN which was which. I meet a chick and I DON'T FUCKING
> KNOW if I'm going to spend five hours or five minutes with her. Who
> does? That's just one example.
>
> Your business about how sometimes people are talking quietly, other
> times there's a raucous dance going on, etc. -- well, yeah, I've seen
> it, but you are just utterly Martian to me in that you could draw
> conclusions from it and thereby use it to your advantage. It's great to
> hear what a few of your conclusions are, and how they color your
> sarging, but I'd much rather LEARN TO DRAW MY OWN CONCLUSIONS.
>
> So, in short, you sound to me like a "natural" at logistics. You're
> saying things about how, after the fact, you notice that you have
> happened to have solved problems. I would rather hear things about how,
> before the fact, I too can develop similar skills. What am I missing
> here?
>
> See what I'm saying? I don't reject your post, at all. It sounds like
> some great stuff. I just want you to remember what it used to be like,
> when you were an AFC and you heard some natural PUA say something like,
> "dude, you just need to fuck her" or "go on out and get laid" or "just
> be yourself" or "she really wants to kiss you." It's useless advice,
> aside from the encouragement that it implies, that SOMEWHERE down the
> road there might be some relief.
>
> I notice these logistical skills going on in most of the field reports I
> read, too. Quite often there are some odd comments, like, "So, I took
> her cigarette away from her -- she was a smoker and I knew she didn't
> have a lighter -- and threw it in the gutter." The point in the field
> report or lay report might be something about what you did with the
> cigarette. But I'm always baffled by the other part -- "I knew she
> didn't have a lighter". Like, how? You have X-Ray fucking vision? What?
> I know I made up this example, but I see these "I just knew" things
> going on lots in some of the more successful field reports. In fact, for
> me, most field reports read like people who are oddly prescient. They
> plan for / prepare for / already know about logistics. In advance.
> Weird.
>
> A final point I'd like to make, is that SLEEP has always been an issue
> for me. I GENUINELY would wish to sleep from 8 pm to 7 am EVERY NIGHT. I
> don't know why this is. Some doctors have suggested that it's because I
> have a very high metabolic change -- the distinction between my resting
> and my active heart rates, for example, is a very great distinction.
> Other doctors have put me on mild stimulants, vitamin B shots, and
> theophylline (formerly prescribed for asthma, an adrenaline derivative).
> But blood tests indicate no problem. I CAN function quite normally on
> the "average" 7:45 hours a night, from approximately 11 pm to
> approximately 6:45 am. I just HATE it. I get grumpy. I want my extra
> dream. Ideally I would, instead, awaken at 6:45, then fall back asleep
> and remain in bed until 10, to get the "restful" sensation. When I was
> unemployed I genuinely slept sixteen hours a day, sometimes. I would do
> that for five, six days, then go on a bender, party most of the night,
> crash, repeat the cycle. I hear AFC work drone go-with-the-system type
> of people say that their job "revitalizes" them and they like getting up
> in the morning in order to get to work because they're looking forward
> to what they're going to "get to" do, but I just find my work obvious
> and boring, nothing I'd ever choose were I given a choice; and yet, it's
> one of the few 'real' job offers I've had in fifteen years. I do hate my
> job and the lifestyle that's necessary for it, but I don't actually
> have a high-pressure "career" at all -- I guess I could never function
> in that environment in the least, so I've never gravitated toward it.
>
> So maybe the whole "not energized about life" thing is closely related
> to the "not interesting about life" and therefore "doesn't have good
> sarging experiences" but since I can't afford to improve my job -- no
> time to look for a replacement, and no major prospects anyway -- I don't
> think that will be a fruitful area of investigation. Maybe so. I'm kind
> of tired of how all questions devolve to inner-game and self-confidence
> issues. I don't think I lack confidence. I think I lack social
> antennae. Obviously, the fact that your observations seem, to me, to
> come from fucking Mars, bear this shit out. Martians, we all know, have
> retractable antennae. :)
>
> So, I guess, what I want to know is how you learned some of your
> logistical tricks. And also, list some more. Like, lots more. I'm
> beginning to get an inkling of the relationship between "social theory"
> and "vibe" and "group dynamics" and other things like that, on the one
> hand, and how they have bearing on logistics. It had honestly never
> occurred to me that the two realms were related at all. Boy do I feel
> like a loser now ... :( ... but thanks for your insights. Try not to
> slam me so much next time ... :) ...
>
>
> --
> The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in
> higher esteem those who think alike than those who think
> differently.
>
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
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