mASF post by "n3rv1"
posted on: mASF forum: General Discussion newsgroup, February 2, 2005On 2/25/05 6:23:00 PM, formhandle wrote:
>
>I don't know... you tell me.
>You asked to be put on the
>mailing list for it but then
>backed out on actually going
>for some reason.
There were several reasons I "backed out." But first, I didn't "back out." I
decided I wasn't going to go. Money, timing, and a few cold realizations added
up to my decision. One of those cold realizations was that I'd like to keep
people from this "community," whether you wanna call it a community or not OUT
of my real life. People from "the community" have fucked up my game more than
helped it, and I've realized the best thing I can do is start from the ground
up, coming to my own conclusions, throwing all principles out the window, and
getting back to what exactly **I** want to get out of my sex life.
>You're still
>on that mailing list and never
>asked to get taken off.
>
I assumed that informing the list that I would not be attending would be enough
to get me taken off the list.
>If Tony Robbins was hosting a
>free weekend seminar/workshop
>where all kinds of well-known
>speakers would be attending
>and speaking, would you
>consider the people who go to
>that caught up in some kind of
>community?
>
I'm not really very familiar with Mr.Robbins, but from the sounds of it, the
way people adulate the man, YES I would say they are "caught up in some kind of
community." From the sounds of it though, you consider the phrase "caught up"
to be negative. The negativity is your's, not mine.
>Hey, there must be a big web
>site somewhere that hosts all
>kind of information on real
>estate investments. I'm sure
>the people who go to that
>occasionally have free
>gatherings.
Yeah well in that case there would be a business purpose for the meeting. I'm
under the assumption that lair meetings, summits, and other free events are not
focused on a business agenda. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if
many attendees DO have business agendas.
Guys from the seduction community meeting up to have their game improved by the
self-appointed and annointed sex gurus has motivation in personal change, not
financial or career-oriented benefit.
And before you bring up leadership seminars, drug recovery programs, or newage
power animal-finding seances, let me say that YES, I believe that those are all
cult-like happenings as well.
>
>What is your POINT? What
>POINT are you trying to make?
>
My point is that, contrary to what you stated, "the community" not only EXISTS,
but, by the definition of the word "cult" that I had in my second post to this
thread, IS A CULT.
>I went because I wanted to and
>I wanted to hang out with some
>people I never met before and
>some people who I have met.
That's kosher. A lot of guys seem to make a hobby to meet everyone they can
from the community. Not just friends they have made through the years or
whatnot, but they wanna meet people to REALLY SEE HOW THE SHIT IS DONE. That's
very cult-like as I see it. It's an internet clique. That's taking it a lot
further than just reading information on a website.
>3
>of the Austin guys have
>crashed at my place and, you
>know, when you're friends with
>people it is OK to visit them
>where they live.
DAAAAAAAAAAAAH REALLY??!?!
>Also, I
>spoke because while I am there
>I want to share things I've
>learned. I also made & wore
>an "AMOG STAFF" t-shirt
>because I thought it would be
>FUNNY and... it was. I had
>fun. People were WELCOME to
>attend and nobody forced
>anyone to do or buy anything,
>and everyone maintained the
>free will to come & go as they
>pleased.
>
You seem to be blowing this out of proportion. There's an instructional aspect
to all the information on your website. It's not just instructional in terms
of making money or how to do some specializied skill like how to bake cookies,
but instructional in the sense that guys ARE CHANGING THEMSELVES, AND THEIR
LIFESTYLES IN CONFIRMATION TO THE IDEAS.
>I am not about PERCEPTION but
>about verifying reality and
>how that reality can actually
>help a WIDE RANGE of people.
There's the big word "help." Look, I'm not busting your balls here, but if the
community was only a forum and a database, why would you really give a shit
about who's real, what's real, and whether or not anyone gets "helped?"
The answer, as I see it, is because it ISN'T just a forum and a database, but
something a lot more important than that. It's A WAY OF LIFE for some people.
In my opinion, once you start talking about changing lifestyle to be in accord
with a supposedly "enlightened" point of view, whether it be from an individual
or a collective (such as this), then you are going into cult territory.
Again though, whatever negativity you see in that is attached solely by YOU.
>If some guys ake themselves
>believe that they have to
>follow a certain teaching y a
>certain person and base their
>decision on pure perception
>and anectotal evidence then
>that's their problem and not
>the responsibility of the
>greater number of people who
>come & go on tis web site or
>any number of other resources
>related to it.
I totally agree. But, especially judging from many attitudes in the community,
combined with the money interests involved in the ever-expanding seduction and
self-help markets, I don't see how the most general, basic principle (the one
you just described) is necessarily accurate here. You're right, not EVERYONE
takes workshops, reads the forum, and is a card-carrying member of their local
lair, but I think if you look at the general atmosphere of what gets written, A
LOT OF PEOPLE are looking for answers. The combination of people looking for
answers and people eager to give guidance fosters what seems to be a cultish
mentality at times, especially given the financial happenings in the community
over the last 2 years.
>I am here to
>do my best to make sure the
>information those people get
>is HONEST and verifiable but
>what they decide to do from
>there is their own individual
>decision.
>
...and I've given you props for doing a good job at it many times in the past.
>
>Your opinion is based on the
>level of interaction you have
>with the people who are vocal,
>whether here or on a chat
>system, or mail, or whatever.
That and the fact that I went to the same college with the CEO of RSD and spent
several months in the field with the guy. I also met a guy in San Diego who is
a big-name PUA, the one that was on that TV dating show, I had a brief
encounter with the guy you gave praise to for visiting your home town and
braving the rough waters, and I've also met community guys from the local area.
It's not a small, online exposure to the community I've had, regardless of what
you are assuming.
It's interesting though, that you assumed that. Is that what people have told
you, or did you just pull that assumption out of the air?
>I, on the
>other hand, have access to
>them and the other 98%.
How so? You see their IP addresses? How is that "having access" to them? How
do you know what they're doing? You aren't trying to say you've met 98% of the
community, are you?
>The
>majority of people are quite
>normal and are only here to
>help themselves and that's
>pretty much it.
>
By my definition of a "cult," I don't think anyone has to be abnormal to be in
one. Staying a part of this group to help yourself or to help others is
undeniably a much stronger purpose for people to be a part of THE COMMUNITY
than just to be exposed to new information.
>Pretty much blows your whole
>presumption apart, huh?
Not one bit. In fact, I don't see how any of your assumptions in this post
have been accurate, aside from the fact that you try to keep information pure
and spam-free. The statement that THERE IS NO COMMUNITY is just ludicrous.
>You're like an alien coming to
>earth who goes to a Broadway
>show and then presumes that
>"all Earthlings must be
>dancing, singing
>entertainers".
I'll avoid returning the favor of making a "you're like a...." metaphor.
Formhandle, I've stuck with this "community" for longer than most people do.
I'm pretty familiar with the flow of people and their types through this forum.
Not as familiar as you are obviously, but I'm not clueless.
>Your scope of
>making this assessment is
>limited. Mine is not so
>limited. Therefore, I am in a
>much more capable position to
>make this assessment than you.
What, that THERE IS NO COMMUNITY? That's why it's ludicrous coming from a guy
who knows down to the individual how many people have taken part in this stuff
for as long as you have. Also, being someone who has met plenty of people from
the community in real life, AS FRIENDS like you said, how can you say there is
no community?
Maybe you're right when you say THE MAJORITY of people don't take part in a
community, but to say THERE IS NO COMMUNITY except in the minds of people seems
off the mark.
>Arguing your point might be
>taken by some people as "hey,
>yeah, he's got a point" but
>all I see is someone talking
>out of their ass.
Hey, just because I'm pointing something out that you disagree with doesn't
mean I'm talking out of my ass. If anything, you're talking out of your ass
when you say THERE IS NO COMMUNITY, after having attended summits and basically
solicited the entire COMMUNITY to come visit your home town.
>Yeah, there
>are some people who get rally
>wrapped up in idolizing people
>and getting all culty and "us
>versus them" and devote their
>24/7 existence to all of this
>but that's an anomaly, not the
>norm.
Sure. But that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying by one basic definition of the word cult, we are an exclusive group
of individuals all with a similiar, somewhat obscure, persuit.
>>But you've got guys doing everything
>>from paying top dollar to hang out with
>>"the big names" for a weekend, to
>>posting videos of themselves "sarging,"
>
>And who's fault is that? This
>web site? The fact that so
>many people are into this
>stuff that a FEW want a
>special kind of attention, or
>some want to make money, or
>some want to idolize and make
>it sort of religious?
>
I'm not sure why you think I'm "blaming" anyone or anything. I haven't
attached any negative connotations to the word cult. YOU and OTHERS have done
that. If anything, I'm trying to remove the paranoid stigma behind the "C"
word. Christ, acknowledge what you're doing here and be cool with it.
>This is science. The world is
>round. Belief that the world
>is round does not cause
>everyone who believes that to
>be zombie cult members.
>
Again, "zombie cult memebers" is YOUR assertion, NOT MINE.
>I am far more concerned with
>people getting ripped off or
>spammed to than I am concerned
>that a small percentage end up
>on the fringe somehow.
...and I've given you props for doing a good job at it many times.
>Oooo, better watch out for
>looking things up in a
>dictionary.com. Taking things
>like that as gospel is putting
>your mental state in jeopardy,
>what with a fw select people
>deciding what the definition
>of a word should be.
>
I don't understand what you're trying to say here. I'm not sure if you're
trying to be funny, or trying some RSD-brand, AMOG mockery. It's really not
very becoming of you formhandle... you are usually a pretty straight-shooter
when it comes to making your point, but this is just obtuse.
>Here's an existential thought
>for you. You went to
>dictionary.com to look up the
>word "cult". It's 4
>characters and that site told
>you what those characters
>combined means. You believe
>it. And you are now here
>"preaching" that perception of
>reality. So tell me, who has
>a better grasp on all of this?
Honestly I had my own definition of "cult" before looking it up. I could've
just as well used my own definition, but to be "official" I looked it up and
used that one so it couldn't be argued.
There's a big difference between looking up a universal truth like the meaning
of a word, and telling guys how to be sexually fulfilled.
The prevailing ideas seem to be written in stone, and there is no short supply
of people to sing the songs. As long as that is the case, and people continue
being panicked into paying for seminars, workshops, and social status in the
community, the furthest thing that is taking place here is a completely benign,
neutral exchange of ideas.
I'll be very interested to see what TFM 2.0 contains....
|
