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Original discussion thread: http://fastseduction.com/discussion/fs?action=9&boardid=2&read=86738&fid=8&FirstTopic=150&LastTopic=179
I would like to offer a list of the fundamental reasons for failure, as near as I could figure them out, for a number of my seduction misses.
Each of these failures taught me something. Some of these things I am still learning, by failing in a same or similar way. This list contains nothing unorthodox by any measure, but perhaps we can learn from the experiences of one another.
2. My non-verbals were terrible.
3. Had her in DDB in isolation but didn’t try to fuck her.
This would have been hard for me to follow before I had end game down, so...
4) Escalated to sex poorly.
5) Stopped playing the attraction game.
6) Played ONLY attraction game.
7) Didn’t disqualify.
8) Got intimidated.
9) Tried too hard.
10) Didn’t do something I enjoyed.
11) Didn’t inject sexuality.
12) Didn’t approach.
I’m sure there are many more, but these are the ones that come to mind -- anyone else want to add?
Evening gentlemen. It has been a while since I've posted, since the relative importance of PU in my life waxes and wanes depending on what I'm up to.
1. I didn’t call her.
There was this girl I thought was cute, though I had her number through a shared project, not a pickup. I never called her. This other time I wasn't sure if a date went well or not. I called her and everything turned out ok in the end. I met this woman at a party and we seemed to hit it off, though never exchanged digits. I found her on facebook. I contacted her and she replied with her number. Another girl, I didn't know if she was with that guy or not. She wasn't, as I found out when someone else started dating her.
I had this night where NOTHING seemed to work. I thought about it and realized that my BL was terrible all night. I had this day 2 that was awful within half a minute – I was talking way too fast. Whenever nothing seems to work at all for no apparent resin, it’s because my nonverbals are killing me. I have more than learned how to convey relaxed, confident, animated through my body language». I have experimented with eye contact and voice patterns and I know what works for me. And yet I still consistently forget these things. The nice thing is, if you practice your non-verbals long enough they become internal, actually you. It takes a while, but you can have any body language» you want, not as an act, but as your natural way of moving and speaking—so get artful. Using my body intensely on a regular (almost daily) basis has also really helped. You really want to move like a cat, study dance or martial arts or gymnastics or whatever.
Ouch. Hurts to remember this one. I had this whole plan about how I wouldn't push too fast for this particular girl... we were making out, I was saying I was leaving, it was going great, it got almost to petting before I actually left, her DDB'ing me on my way out. A week later, buyer's remorse, LJBF. It's harder to have buyer's remorse if you had a great time in bed (but do remember to give her a justification for her actions, if she's going to need one.)
a) We were in my bed, cuddling after cuddling watching DVDs. There was some question about whether she was going to go home that night. I had previously DQ'd with "sometimes I think cuddling is better than sex." We were spooning. I kissed the back of her neck. Long story short, she left. My DQ was completely disingenious, because I could not then escalate quickly without being incongruent. Also, I knew I wasn't going to be able to kiss her neck then, I did it anyway because I was afraid of her just falling asleep and I didn't know what else to do What I should have done is talked to her, kept her awake and interested and then increase kino immediately after the conversational high points (big laughs, close connection, etc.) Wash, rinse, repeat.
b) She was on my couch and I was sucking her nipples. She was into it at first but began to get unresponsive. I stopped eventually. Never got back there. What I should have done is played backwards a step to the game that *got her onto my couch in the first place*. Then gone forward again.
a) We had SUCH a good connection, I felt so CLOSE to this girl, it was all going SO well. So I dropped the attraction strategy that I’d had. Suddenly she wasn’t so interested. Started doing what I was doing before (asking myself after every time I talked to her, where are we now and how can I amp the attraction next time?) and bingo, she was back. Remember, closeness and comfort are very, very necessary but this doesn’t mean that attraction ever stops. You’d probably enjoy being a flirty motherfucker anyway.
b) I had to tease the shit out of this hot little Italian girl -- ADD, club kid type -- to keep her attention. She ate it up, and she really was a brat so it was easy. Eventually she's in my bed, topless, spooning very close. She's saying things like "would we be here if I wasn't a girl?" She wants validation that I'm into her for more than her (kickin') sexuality. I gave it to her, telling her I was most certainly interested in the rest of her. Nope. The right answer was keep busting her, pounding on her insecurity, but NOT CRUELY. Girls DO need comfort and anyway, a guy who only moves people through their insecurities -- neglecting the equally powerful levers of their joys and dreams and pride -- is a dick. Push/pull. Shoulda mocked her, then backed off slightly with something comforting...
Again, she was all into me. Even teased me by calling me a “seducer”. Flirting intensely. Wasn’t gonna give me her number at the end of the night. Why? I’m just another hot guy for a hot girl. She never saw that there was actually something to me. It’s important to get a real connection at some point – here this is often called “comfort”, but it’s not a game, dig? Give her something of your ACTUAL self, eventually. The truth is by far the easiest thing to stay congruent to, and remember, if she’s already attracted she’s LOOKING for reasons to like you.
There are days I feel strong. I feel good, I feel sexy, I walk into a set and just… project.. my sexuality. The message is unrelenting, it’s “I am turned on and I am a good time in bed.” The girls KNOW what I’m about. It’s wonderful feeling. But then they seem to lose interest, and I spend the rest of the evening trying to salvage – or move to another set, which would be better if possible.
Exuding sexuality and interest is great, but if I don’t forget to turn this off occasionally, I never leave room for them to move. They KNOW what I’m offering, and that is exactly the problem. No chase. Sometimes this works if she’s into you anyway for whatever reason, but you have to leave room for the girl to respond positively – this is the essence of push-pull.
There are a lot of ways to back away at crucial moments (calibrate, i.e. practice, to know when this is.) You can become suddenly (and inexplicably) disinterested, or walk away and talk later, whatever, all this works. But nothing is as fast and effective as a good DQ. I won’t try to describe what that is here. Start reading about disqualifiers and understand what a good one is. Disqualify. Disqualify. Disqualify. This one has been really important for me, and I think many others.
This woman was the most beautiful I’d ever seen, just about, and it was the end of a day 2 that had gone well. I leaned in to kiss in the car, and it was totally awkward, I didn’t know if she was going for it, I actually blushed and started to giggle. I told her I was shy. It was cute. We kissed successfully, and she even complimented me on it. But she wasn’t looking for shy. She wasn’t all that, either. They never are. C’mon, no one earns your undying respect and admiration in one conversation.
I had a hat. I had a motorcycle. I was traveling alone, I was fearless about approaching people in the bar. I came off as far too attention-seeking. The hat was pretty badass, it’s true, but I knew it was badass and was relying on it far too much to open. I went through a lot of sets that night, none of them very good.
a) Day 2 we went out to something I couldn’t stand, because she suggested it. Why the hell didn’t I say I didn’t generally enjoy modern dance? I would have told a friend… I mean, maybe we’d still go, but why stay silent? Anyway, this event did not help to get me out of the sort of bored, low-energy state I’d been feeling all day.
b) Look, I hate bars. Clubs can be fun to dance or go with a group, but I find it far too loud to really meet people there. YMMV, I realize, but the point is that I enjoy day game way more than night game… and that’s OK! Sarge somewhere you can have fun! Integrate it into your life, it’s not a chore.
She was everyone’s crush – charming, dorky, beautiful, brilliant, enthusiastic. She was my crush too. We had a great time together when we met up. But I just couldn’t see how to get it out of the powerful “friend” frame that she naturally took with everyone in her life. Guess what? I became her friend. Looking back at it later, I realized that at some point you have to tell her that you think she’s sexy, one way or another. It felt like crossing a line with her, but it wouldn’t have been this way at all IF I had been sexual in small ways right from the start. Flirting needs to be calibrated to the level that she will accept at any given point, but you have to start right off. Kino too! I’ve learned that even if she’s not kinoing back right away, I need to be touching her regularly in some way. So very much about sex is touch, after all.
Oh my god… so many lost this way. The only thing that’s finally kicking my ass into ALWAYS APPROACHING now is that it’s becoming hard to find women I really like the look of. If I didn’t walk up and talk to them I’d never ever meet any. And neither will you.
