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Original discussion thread: http://fastseduction.com/discussion/fs?action=9&boardid=2&read=93080&fid=173
After not really getting anywhere for a long time (2005/06), I accidentally found out that a better way was to do really edgy approaches. It took me a while to grow balls of a size that allowed me to do this at will. Yet, I had experienced that this was a better approach than just sticking to a girl at all costs. For instance, BradP says that if you don’t get blown out at all then you are playing it to save. This is true. Try a low-key approach and hide your intention, and girls will tolerate your presence for a long time. They may even welcome you to orbiter land. You will obviously only waste your time with those (only IF you want to get laid, of course). But if you come on to them in a very direct way she will immediately have to make the decision whether she wants to give you a shot or not. If she does not, then you just look for another chick. But if she does, then everything is possible, including instant-make outs, hand jobs in a corner after five minutes, blow jobs in the toilet after fifteen, or sex at your or her place one hour later.
I think we all have the problem that we have good and bad nights. However, the better players know when they have a shot at getting the girl and when not. We then just minimise our losses and eject from the bad sets. On the other hand, n00bs sometimes seem to entertain the strange idea that every set is salvageable. I have made the realisation that this was indeed not the case as I slowly got better (ca. 2007). But as I got more involved with the community (2008), I came across the phenomenon that people told me about sarges or asked me to look at their field reports, but all of those were just records of a guy wasting his time. I have also seen a couple of n00bs in field who wanted to have some feedback and saw the same: that they saw nothing at all.
I’d either listen to them, watch them, or read their stuff and could only shake my head. I told them there was nothing they could have done. Sometimes the girl was clearly not interested, or they had blown all their chances, of which they were pretty ignorant. There seemed to be a common theme: those guys never hooked the set, never had as much as a shred of attraction, and were only tolerated by the girl. Their approaches fizzled out and then they turned to me and asked me what they should have done instead. The worst one was a guy that got stood up by a girl two or three times in a row and then received a txt from her, saying that he should leave her alone. He still wanted to know what I would do to get her back. This is really sad. Also, some people occasionally found a girl that was attracted to them and did the escalations for them, but only to a point. Then those guys were lost and did not know how to proceed, but stuck around nonetheless, waiting for either a deus ex machina or Godot to appear.
I think there are two categories of unsuccessful sets:
1) Interactions where a lay (or whatever else your goal was) was within reach, at least theoretically [“good” bad sets]
Those are interactions where the girl was really into you but you couldn’t lay the girl because of a number of issues, like:
- you triggered her ASD
Interactions like those are instructional fuck-ups IMO because thinking about those, or posting field reports and asking other people for help will probably give you good pointers for the next time in field. You are getting somewhere, and you can learn from those failed seductions. In those cases ask yourself where you have made mistakes and why. Sometimes you probably only missed a chance at getting laid because you did not take the necessary steps. This can be rectified. But in others you could have run your best game and still did not get laid due to external factors (i.e. bad logistics.) It’s important to understand the why you did not go anywhere if you want to improve.
Those are approaches were the girl was not at all interested into you and only kept you around because she needed validation or wanted an entertainer. Of course, some people will now say idiotic things like:
- “She is wearing make-up, which is an IOI.”
- “She did not leave so it was still on.”
Those are the dreaded sets that just drag on and on. You keep talking to her but she does not really want to turn the conversation sexually. Or she stops all your attempts at kino escalation in its early stages. For instance, she may allow you to put your hand on her knee for about three to five seconds but will remove it afterwards. (You will drive those chicks away if you escalate harder, which is evidence that they really weren’t physically interested into you.)
Cockteases belong to the same category. Yes, it is possible to lay those because they actually do get aroused while they interact with you sexually, but they nonetheless take an incredible amount of time and skill to bag. Once I met a girl that proceeded to whack me off. She kept a very close eye on my level of arousal, and she suddenly stopped when my cock was about to throb. I was literally micro-seconds away from “the point of no return” and would have blown a load. But she stopped, looked at me with big eyes and said “Sorry, but I can’t do this”, with a shy voice she just put on to tease me even more. I met her again the next day and got a blow job, and I eventually fucked her. Yet, considering the amount of time I invested it was probably not worth it. Now, I really did like this girl, and I am also fascinated by cockteases because it is rare for women to be able to really control their arousal. I have actually learnt a lot from them in the field of push/pull. Most are only out to tease you and the cocktease that allows herself to do something really sexual, like playing with your cock or allowing you to finger her, is quite rare. The common kind is content rubbing her thighs against your crotch, feeling that you got a boner and leave sooner rather than later because she has already gotten enough validation from you. Now she wants validation from someone else.
Please excuse my ramblings. The relevant point is that if you want to get laid then stay away from cockteases and learn to recognise when you are in a set that goes nowhere. Don’t waste your time with those. Pick better targets and leave the (bad) bad sets. However, cut your teeth with the “good” bad sets because those are an indicator of the level of your game since you could get laid with those.
This post harks back to ideas and experiences I had two to three years ago. Basically, my problem was that it took me a long time to discern when I was in a (potentially) good set and when I was not. To my frustration I really had no idea what was possible with any particular set. I would just stick to the girl, i.e. any girl that did not reject me, and hope for a miracle to happen. I never had a shot at all, or had not made use of the window of opportunity when it presented itself, so I effectively only wasted my time with those sets.
- bad logistics (either yours or hers)
- you missed the window of opportunity when it presented itself, so the girl got bored and left
- her friends did not like you at all and you did nothing to make them like you
- you did not push the interaction forward
- you did not escalate physically
- you escalated too quickly and made her uncomfortable (maybe this is also ASD-related)
2) You were doomed but did not want to realise it [“bad” bad sets]
Yes, I have actually heard people say this. Too bad, dude, that she did not wear it to impress you but a potential worthwhile suitor.
Just because she does not run away or rejects you right away does not mean it is on. Far from it. Some girls are actually well-mannered. Also, there is the phenomenon that girls only show their really nasty side when you are a sexual thread. If you are a insecure nerd, then they will probably not shoot you down with their harshest lines but instead find it cute that you had enough courage to walk up to her. It does not mean anything more. She was just being friendly. Yet, a lay was never in the cards for you.
