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Original discussion thread: http://fastseduction.com/discussion/fs?action=9&boardid=2&read=95134&fid=146
This post pretty much nails alot of confusion which alot of guys have (including me).
Well enough with the chit chat, enjoy the post!
How to become good at PU - newbie guide
will tell you guys what i think are the best systems, how to best improve, lessons ive learnt along the way, thoughts on routines, inner game», relationships and the like..
before i do go on:
im just setting out to tell you about the path ahead of you.. and where you guys will end up.. and i hope you guys choose the right options and end up in the right place..
-What are the biggest mistakes people make when entering the game.
I think its just expecting too much too soon. getting high on initial results. reading too much material. not going out infield. taking too many breaks from the game.
people start and are high with the idea that this actually works. they get thrilled with their first 'hits'. and hold that number close, that ddb girl, that makeout.
and are thrilled with the initial rapid progress.
they drop their girlfriends. and jump onto the MLTR bandwagon.
THIS is where problems start.
goals are set too high.
and the search for the magic bullet» begins.
routines are out of the way because theyre wrong.
and then begins the search for inner game».
and the search for more and more material.
and what happens usually is you become a veritable treasure trove of pickup information.
only problem is that this causes more problems than it solves.
why?
because the advice begins to conflict with each other.
MM might tell you not to go for the ONS. while another might tell you to go for it and that you lost the girl because you didnt close.
DD might say cocky funny and MM might say negs. sean messenger and stephane might say be nice. the alpha fanclub would say thats too AFC.
and information piles up.
suddenly you say fuck it all. im going natural.
but NO. doesnt work. because natural is what you always were. what is natural - going up to a girl and talking to her. well, youve been doing that all your life. and it hasnt gotten you anywhere.
do NOT get caught up in all of this.
what is the answer then?
its like anything else in life. work towards a long term plan and keep continually improving.
the only way to improve is to improve by doing.
learn one system and stick to it for long enough to see if it works for you.
allow me to illustrate with an example
foreign exchange trading. (IMHO the easiest way to double your money. but only 5% of people get really good at it. similar to pickup)
first you are thrilled with your first profit. then you make your next few losses and thats when a lot of people throw in the towel.
you see people ending up in relationships with the first girl they lay post game. or settling down once they know that game is a lot harder than they realised.
as you go along the way - you make a few more wins. but still a lot of losses. and more people drop out here.
and here again you see people reading material, inner game» junkies, shelling out money on bootcamps but not making progress and dropping out. or taking breaks from the game. or saying this game stuff sucks and getting frustrated and bitter. you say fuck girlfriends. ill try MLTRs. the big break is just around the corner.
along the way - you learn in forex. that there is NO real system. you learn to do what works for YOU. you win some. you lose some. but you do enough to learn - fuck i can get good at this.
all you have to do is understand. there is NO one system. not even a group of systems. there is no inner game», there is no natural, there is no direct.
what works is an amalgam of all that youve Tried and found out has worked for you.
youve put the hours in and youve seen improvements.
and the final stage in forex as in life. is when you consistently make profits. its when you develop 'intuition'. you now have a vibe of when to make a move, whats happening in the background, women are naturally attracted to you.
and this is when you understand yes, direct game works. indirect game works. natural game» works. not because they work. but because YOU work.
you WILL improve.
all you need is the patience to stick to it and the gains will come.
DONT keep taking breaks from the game, because of our frustration and couch it with other reasons.
DONT have a steady monogamous girlfriend if you want to get better. later is okay. but a girlfriend is one of the biggest killers of improvement.
sure, have a girlfriend if thats your thing. and later on, youll realise thats what your goal actually has become. to find that ONE woman. but until then, have a girlfriend on the side if you want. but if you want to improve with game, keep the non exclusivity clause on.
WRITE down lessons learnt.
seriously this is a biggie lesson.
go out. see what worked. and write the lesson down.
people who dont improve are people who read too much and have conflicted informtion, who dont go out in field OR who keep making the same mistakes.
ive seen with my game whenever ive plateaud - its because i keep making the same mistakes.
and its different for different people.
your mistakes would be completely different from mine.
the thing is to identify common sticking points. sort them out and move onto the next sticking point.
break it down. approach. kino. attraction. kino. vibing / qualification /justifying attraction. kino. comfort. kino. .isolation. kino. extraction. kino.
i keep saying kino because thats the key. an escalation ladder should be the goal. touch. unobtrusive. then later more intimate. makeout. etc etc.
the only way to learn is by doing.
its easy to know about the 'vibe' intuition as you both feel it.
but do you know that theres a makeout intuition. only people who've gone for the makeout enough times know theres a definite time when its ON and they should go for it right then.
theres a lay intuition. only people whove gone for the lay enough times know theres a definite its ON moment they should act on.
people improve by pushing their personal boundaries and going out if field. learning lessons. putting them into practice the next time, so they can learn the NEXT lessson.
so please do that.
go out. push your personal boundary.
break the chase down into sessions. sure theres a flow to it. but like i said above.
approach. get this handled. then
later you can work on
again this is why i recommend writing in a journal.
theres a standard progression. get one step sorted. find sticking points and move onto the next one.
its really counterproductive to get consistently to isolation and makeouts, and later because you didnt take the lessons home or forgot the hard earned earlier lessons to move back into approach, and attract game.
when should i eject from a set?
dont leave a set until you cant make any more progress.
oftentimes when starting out. theres an approach machine mentality. or you feel a high from getting vibes or making out with the hottest women in the club. youre dancing with a 8, and a 9 from across the room is showing you vibes. or your set isnt going too well, and you just eject.
no. women want the evolutionary feeling that this is a guy whos willing to tough it out. its why they shit test too.
PERSISTENCE TO ISOLATION (gunwitchs golden golden rule)
if you play your cards peacefully enough - i.e. not fucking up, negging, acting like an alpha jerk, making socially clueless comments in the name of outcome independence, making no excuses because your a Man etc etc - then you get to a point where you realise that just staying with one woman through the night or day will make things work out just fine.
another very important lesson learnt. do NOT fuck up. we get so used to doing so many approaches, so many rejections. that we dont realise how much we sabotage ourselves.
just a few nights out after this realisation. i.e. just stick with the woman no matter what. and i find myself biting my lips with so many things that wouldve killed the interaction.
this is especially important early enough.
in the first few minutes shes looking for the slightest excuse to reject you. later, hours, days, weeks later - even if you fuck up, she'll laugh with you.
what about looks and money?
looks and money dont matter. AFTER you get good at game. right now they do.
look around you in a club. the hottest women will always be with the best dressed men. and the most well groomed ones. and the best looking ones too.
the good news is that you can work on your looks.
lose weight. dress sharp. heck, search around and get a professional to shop for clothes for you. might be the best 500 bucks youve spent in your life.
get sharp shoes. wear nice cologne. use breathmints. cut nails. shave.
a nice clean cut look is a good foot in the door. and thats the most important part. in the initial approach machine phase, and even later you tend to get rejected in seconds. so that first impression is important.
what about approach anxiety?
what about inner game»?
what about direct vs. indirect game?
in the end, your game becomes a mix of direct and indirect.
what about natural vs. scripted?
the ironic thing is that as you get better. you have standard spiels that you tell women. these are just routines by any other name.
have nice stories about your job. how you got into it. some funny childhood stories. dreams you have.
its amazing how useful they can be when theres a lull in the conversation, and your trying to fill the gap with random 'natural' converstion and then find that you eject because it wasnt going well.
heck, that woman who that routine wouldve worked wonders on but you ejected from might just have been the woman you spent the rest of your life with, or who blew open your sexual reportoire or who you mightve gone tandem hunting for threesomes with.
just stick with a sinlge system for a consistent period of time. see what works. what doesnt. write the lessons learnt down and move on.
what about rejection. i feel really bad when ive been rejected?
however dont become like approach machines and think ALL rejection is okay. learn lessons and put them into action, so it happens less consistently.
this alpha thing isnt me. its making me a prick. what do i do?
what material to read?
minimal material. only because too much can give you conflicting information and paralyze you in the field.
inner game»: eckhart tolle - a new earth (power of now is too heavy)
indirect: MM is a must read if only for the structure
direct: mode one
natural game»: RSD foundations, transformations, blueprint
and of them all gunwitch, gunwitch, gunwitch. cant say it enough times.
gunwitch is what works. its the most natural system out there. this guy is pure gold. and i cant recommend him highly enough.
its the most results oriented system out there. and it WORKS.
in summary.
it will be unfortunate that what made you go over the moon is a run of the mill occurence a few weeks, months down the line.
the key is to have fun and make other people feel good. thats when you make the best progress. read or watch RSD if you lose the drive, its what i sometimes do to get my drive back. and im raring to go.
First of all, I did NOT write this post myself, the credits goes to a guy from another seduction board.
This post opened my eyes, I hope it does the same for you.
________________________________________
I see a lot of newbies people posting about systems to read. what works. etc etc. and I thought it might be useful if i post a thread about what I wish I was told or knew when i was starting out. and what ive learnt along the years.
this isnt a magic bullet» thread. its not a chest beating thread. its just a realistic portrayal of the path thats before you and common pitfalls to avoid.
frustration sets in.
you find that yes, you are getting the makeouts and number closes and attraction but no real fuck closes.
speed seduction» is out of the way because its wrong.
onine game is out of the way because its wrong.
direct game is out of the way because it projects too much interest.
indirect game is out of the way because it doesnt project interest.
monogamy is out of the way because MLTRs are the goal.
so what am i saying?
its all to easy to forget the basics.
people dont improve by reading material. inner game» stuff. dvds. sure they can be helpful..
attraction. get this sorted. i.e. prizability and assume attraction. once thats handled.
escalation. and makeouts. get this sorted.
vibing.
qualification/justifying attraction.
number closes.
time bridges.
isolation.
extraction.
managing logistics.
day 2s.
going to a seduction location.
LMR.
managing expectations.
relationship game.
consistent ONS
mltr.
celebrity game.
threesomes.
cold approach threesomes.
very important lesson learnt for me.
i.e. youll end up sharing a cab home. heck, sometimes i just play the waiting game and have been with the woman till the next day evening. even waiting out through LMRs at times.
if you dress like a clueless chump, no way the womans going to go for you.
its normal. approach five women and it disappears.
or go into a corner and do some tapping. wierd. but it works.
inner game» is important, but as specific to pickup. it comes ALONG successful approaches and a few lays under your belt.
you cant just read eckhart tolle, or do AMP and expect to get laid.
both dont work. and both work.
it all depends on your personal style.
you do what works for you. and dont be led by others.
again. as you become better you become a natural».
but you also realise that routines work. as a beginner routines are a MUST. seriously, i cant emphasise how well they work to anybody who uses them.
rejection is a good thing. its lessons learnt. like they say theres no such thing as failure, only feedback.
the more you get rejected, the better you become.
the sad thing is you lose parts of yourself with the game. sometimes the nicest parts.
get better and learn from lessons. and slowly you will start unlearning a lot of the bad lessons and keep the good stuff.
along the way you will lose social skills, wont know how to behave yourself in mixed company because youre all alpha and amog and double guessing everybody and hitting on everything in sight, you cant stop talking about game or that evolutionary psychology insight you had, you treat your women like their feelings dont matter and you sell it to yourself as shes having a wide range of emotions so its okay. etc etc.
you get uncomfortable with being a dickhead and try to be a nicer guy but not fall into the AFC trap.
initially you want to be alpha. but once youre totally comfortable in your own skin, its more important to be a normal likeable person.
ahh. that all important question.
authentic man program - some really nice stuff in here
the routines manuals
i hope this has been helpful. i might add to it later.
no quick fixes.
expect your game to get better in 2-5 years i.e. consistent lays
5 lays a year is a decent enough benchmark for good game (i got this off sleazy» on masf who has the sickest game ive ever seen/heard of)
dont go all MLTRs (get a few lays consistently and a fuck buddy on the side first)
dont get an exclusive girlfriend if you want to keep improving
dont take breaks
spend time in field and WRITE down lessons learnt and make sure sticking points are further down the approach-fuck timeline. and not slipping back to earlier stages. if they are youre doing something wrong or not doing something right.
there is no system that works. not a single one. its only with time in field, that you develop your own system. (its then that you get the idea that all systems work. or you can make any system work, because it wasnt the systems - it was you.)
dont get caught up in the search for more information -
and if you consistently keep at it you WILL get better.
before a good approach will leave you feeling good. then it becomes only a makeout, or a ONS or like it is for me a beautiful falling in love with each other interaction. or mltrs. or celebrity game. or threesomes etc etc.
